242 réponses à ce sujet

[Indy_S]

Seems rather cynical.

[chemiclord]

Indy_S wrote...

Seems rather cynical.

If you say so.

It's merely an observation.  We rarely get what we think we "deserve", and that's just as true of the real world we inhabit as the world of fiction we immerse ourselves in.

Modifié par chemiclord, 27 février 2013 - 04:05 .

[AshenShug4r]

chemiclord wrote...

Bah. I despise the "I (or 'my Shepard') deserved more" argument.

What you "deserve", to be quite frank, means less than jack ****. Guess what? Sometimes you don't get what you "deserve." Hell, MOST of the time, you don't get what you "deserve." 

Welcome to life.

This I can agree with.

[Aaleel]

I still ahve the same fundamental problem I've had from the first time I played the game. I didn't care whether or not Shepard lived or died, I just wanted some feeling of accomplishment.

Shepard didn't achieve victory or his/her goal.. Shepard was defeated and dying, then was saved by the enemy and ALLOWED to win by the enemy.

Modifié par Aaleel, 27 février 2013 - 04:13 .

[christrek1982]

having the PC commit suicide out of stupidity is never a good way to end a game.

[christrek1982]

Aaleel wrote...

I still ave the same fundamental problem I've had from the first time I played the game. I didn't care whether or not Shepard lived or died, I just wanted some feeling of accomplishment.

Shepard didn't achieve victory or his/her goal.. Shepard was defeated and dying, then was saved by the enemy and ALLOWED to win by the enemy.

and also this.

[Cobalt2113]

I was really happy with the way it ended for my Shepard.

She was a fairly renegade character, which I felt made the ending (destroy) perfect for her. She was willing to sacrifice her own life to safeguard those of her lover, friends and everyone else in the galaxy. It was a wonderfully tragic end. her eyes flashing red as she walked forward into the explosion, the determination in her expression unmistakeable. I saw that as her seeking absolution in death. She'd done some pretty terrible things throughout the course of three games and this was her redemption in fire. It was quite a beautiful moment, I felt.

I was actually slightly annoyed that, when the EC came, I had enough EMS to get the breath scene. 'Cause that was not part of my headcanon.

[chemiclord]

Aaleel wrote...

I still ave the same fundamental problem I've had from the first time I played the game. I didn't care whether or not Shepard lived or died, I just wanted some feeling of accomplishment.

Shepard didn't achieve victory or his/her goal.. Shepard was defeated and dying, then was saved by the enemy and ALLOWED to win by the enemy.

THIS is an argument I can understand, and it's something that really boils down to poor design.

I can "get" what Bioware was trying to go for... they wanted to "break" Shepard through the course of ME3, so that he faced that last scene pushed to the utter limit.

The problem however, is two fold.

Firstly, they really don't do enough to pound Shepard down through the vast majority of the game.  All the "stress" feels forced.  You hear that the galaxy forces are getting thumped at every turn... but you never really SEE it.  All of Shepard's missions up until Thessia are rousing successes.  It doesn't feel like Shepard should be particularly wearing down... this isn't anything he hasn't faced before and it hasn't slowed him down yet.

And on top of that, the only real "defeat" he suffers feels more like the player was cheated rather than beaten.  You go from demolishing Kai Leng to getting beat in a cutscene.  I don't know how anyone designing that mission thought that was going to be received any way other than poorly.

Secondly; they WAY overplay the "beating" in Priority:Earth.  It was like Bioware took everything that SHOULD have happened to Shepard over the course of three games and dumped all that **** on him in the last roughly 20 minutes.  As far as I can tell, he gets shot clean through TWICE (once by TIM and once by Marauder Shields), hit from point blank range by a weapon that slices a CRUISER in twain, and seems to lose roughly 20 pints of blood.  And we're supposed to somehow believe that he's of even remotely sound mind and body to not only MAKE a decision about the Crucible, but be physically capable of enacting it?

That snapping sound you heard was my suspension of disbelief.

Again.

[Indy_S]

chemiclord wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

I still ave the same fundamental problem I've had from the first time I played the game. I didn't care whether or not Shepard lived or died, I just wanted some feeling of accomplishment.

Shepard didn't achieve victory or his/her goal.. Shepard was defeated and dying, then was saved by the enemy and ALLOWED to win by the enemy.

THIS is an argument I can understand, and it's something that really boils down to poor design.

I can "get" what Bioware was trying to go for... they wanted to "break" Shepard through the course of ME3, so that he faced that last scene pushed to the utter limit.

The problem however, is two fold.

Firstly, they really don't do enough to pound Shepard down through the vast majority of the game.  All the "stress" feels forced.  You hear that the galaxy forces are getting thumped at every turn... but you never really SEE it.  All of Shepard's missions up until Thessia are rousing successes.  It doesn't feel like Shepard should be particularly wearing down... this isn't anything he hasn't faced before and it hasn't slowed him down yet.

And on top of that, the only real "defeat" he suffers feels more like the player was cheated rather than beaten.  You go from demolishing Kai Leng to getting beat in a cutscene.  I don't know how anyone designing that mission thought that was going to be received any way other than poorly.

Secondly; they WAY overplay the "beating" in Priority:Earth.  It was like Bioware took everything that SHOULD have happened to Shepard over the course of three games and dumped all that **** on him in the last roughly 20 minutes.  As far as I can tell, he gets shot clean through TWICE (once by TIM and once by Marauder Shields), hit from point blank range by a weapon that slices a CRUISER in twain, and seems to lose roughly 20 pints of blood.  And we're supposed to somehow believe that he's of even remotely sound mind and body to not only MAKE a decision about the Crucible, but be physically capable of enacting it?

That snapping sound you heard was my suspension of disbelief.

Again.

If I still had my belief after seeing a Human Reaper I left in a black hole and killing Reapers with barrel rolls, Cains and the dumbest smart missiles ever, it would have snapped here as well.

[Aaleel]

chemiclord wrote...

THIS is an argument I can understand, and it's something that really boils down to poor design.

I can "get" what Bioware was trying to go for... they wanted to "break" Shepard through the course of ME3, so that he faced that last scene pushed to the utter limit.

The problem however, is two fold.

Firstly, they really don't do enough to pound Shepard down through the vast majority of the game.  All the "stress" feels forced.  You hear that the galaxy forces are getting thumped at every turn... but you never really SEE it.  All of Shepard's missions up until Thessia are rousing successes.  It doesn't feel like Shepard should be particularly wearing down... this isn't anything he hasn't faced before and it hasn't slowed him down yet.

And on top of that, the only real "defeat" he suffers feels more like the player was cheated rather than beaten.  You go from demolishing Kai Leng to getting beat in a cutscene.  I don't know how anyone designing that mission thought that was going to be received any way other than poorly.

Secondly; they WAY overplay the "beating" in Priority:Earth.  It was like Bioware took everything that SHOULD have happened to Shepard over the course of three games and dumped all that **** on him in the last roughly 20 minutes.  As far as I can tell, he gets shot clean through TWICE (once by TIM and once by Marauder Shields), hit from point blank range by a weapon that slices a CRUISER in twain, and seems to lose roughly 20 pints of blood.  And we're supposed to somehow believe that he's of even remotely sound mind and body to not only MAKE a decision about the Crucible, but be physically capable of enacting it?

That snapping sound you heard was my suspension of disbelief.

Again.

It didn't even make sense asfar as the Catalyst's reasoning was concerned.  The Catalyst says it needs a new soluton because Shepard standing there, the first organic ever is proof its solution will no longer work.  But Shepard is onlystanding there as the first organic ever because the Catalyst saved him/her and beamed them up. 

[darkmikasonfire]

I would have liked for an option to have a happy ending with my Liara, a house, and lots of little blue babies running around. Since the first game I was aiming for that goal, and it was snatched away. It was miserable, I've played through it a few times and every time I cry at a few parts. Mordin, the ending speach with everyone before you head off to the final fight, the talk with Liara where you meld with her the last time, the ship pick up taking your squad away to safety, dying, seeing how miserable Liara was.
I understand the whole hero's death thing, I was proud that my Shep sacrificed everything for the ones she loved, for her friends, for the galaxy. But it still really hurt to know that there was absolutely nothing I could do to prevent the death to go back to Liara and enjoy a nice quiet quaint life in some out in the boons planet in our own little home.

Her fate made me really proud and super sad. I played the first game 6 times and a part of a 7th (hated the class so I nerfed it) then played the second game 7-9 times doing different stuff over and over, and I've played the third game 4 times so far and I'm working on my 5th play through. So I've invested a lot of time in my shepard, a lot of time on shep's relationships, on how shep acts, how I believe she would be perceived, and even more time with Liara my LI through all but one of my play throughs (ME2, for the achievement my first time through I let the drell ram rod me, but after that Liara only) in every game. I've taken my LI Liara through every single mission I could with her, no matter how useless she may be on that level, was irrelevant. I sacrificed all my medigel to revive her every moment she was downed (to hell with the other person, if she was up they could stay dead a whole level, completely irrelevant to me), so to not be able to have a happy ending with her was like a stab to the heart, and to lose my shep was just as bad.

[chemiclord]

Indy_S wrote...

If I still had my belief after seeing a Human Reaper I left in a black hole and killing Reapers with barrel rolls, Cains and the dumbest smart missiles ever, it would have snapped here as well.

Buddy, my suspension of belief snapped the very first time in ME1 and that wonderful plot contrivance known as Tali'Zorah nar Rayya's debut.  Then again at the Virmire "sacrifice."  Then again at Vigil.  Then again when Shepard pulled a Science Jesus.  Then again when every single person came out alive at the end of a "suicide mission."

That was just the most recent case of the ME Trilogy making me go, "Ohhhhh...kay.  Sure.  Let's just run with that."

Modifié par chemiclord, 27 février 2013 - 05:16 .

[Indy_S]

chemiclord wrote...

Buddy, my suspension of belief snapped the very first time in ME1 and that wonderful plot contrivance known as Tali'Zorah nar Rayya's debut.   Then again at Vigil.  Then again when Shepard pulled a Science Jesus.  Then again when every single person came out alive at the end of a "suicide mission."

That was just the most recent case of the ME Trilogy making me go, "Ohhhhh...kay.  Sure.  Let's just run with that."

I held it rather well in the first game. The contrivances seemed less offensive. Lazarus was brutal, though.

[chemiclord]

Indy_S wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

Buddy, my suspension of belief snapped the very first time in ME1 and that wonderful plot contrivance known as Tali'Zorah nar Rayya's debut.   Then again at Vigil.  Then again when Shepard pulled a Science Jesus.  Then again when every single person came out alive at the end of a "suicide mission."

That was just the most recent case of the ME Trilogy making me go, "Ohhhhh...kay.  Sure.  Let's just run with that."

I held it rather well in the first game. The contrivances seemed less offensive. Lazarus was brutal, though.

Really?

I just remember thinking, "Okay... you don't take Shepard's word, a ravaged colony, a dead Spectre, and Saren's taunting mockery of the process as indication that Saren isn't working on the level... but a lone girl from a species treated with disdain and suspicion, carrying a sound recording taken from the damaged memory banks of said species greatest crime to the galaxy, and after hearing it ONCE, without ANY verification, go 'Yep.  That's indisputable proof!  Go get Saren, Shepard!"

... and then I went o_O then >_> then then >_<

Modifié par chemiclord, 27 février 2013 - 05:21 .

[AlanC9]

chemiclord wrote...
Buddy, my suspension of belief snapped the very first time in ME1 and that wonderful plot contrivance known as Tali'Zorah nar Rayya's debut.   Then again at Vigil.  Then again when Shepard pulled a Science Jesus.  Then again when every single person came out alive at the end of a "suicide mission."

You left out my favorite. The Conduit lets Sovereign put operatives on the Citadel....where his two top operatives, plus their entourages, could have operated freely if their cover hadn't been blown by sending them after the Conduit.

And as long as you're making fun of the voice recording, don't forget that the geth are burning that much bandwidth and storage space..... for what? Even if they needed to know Saren's every utterance for some reason, wouldn't a text transcript do?

Modifié par AlanC9, 27 février 2013 - 05:24 .

[chemiclord]

AlanC9 wrote...

chemiclord wrote...
Buddy, my suspension of belief snapped the very first time in ME1 and that wonderful plot contrivance known as Tali'Zorah nar Rayya's debut.   Then again at Vigil.  Then again when Shepard pulled a Science Jesus.  Then again when every single person came out alive at the end of a "suicide mission."

You left out my favorite. The Conduit lets Sovereign put operatives on the Citadel....where his two top operatives, plus their entourages, could have operated freely if their cover hadn't been blown by sending them after the Conduit.

Oh God, how DID I forget that one?

I think my mind blocked that out of my memory.

[MattFini]

Shepard survived my story.

Just a shame BioWare short changed Destroy's final shot simply so they could be "fair" to the other two endings.

Guess they were afraid even fewer would choose green or blue if red actually delivered a satisfying, triumphant end for Shepard.

Modifié par MattFini, 27 février 2013 - 05:27 .

[Indy_S]

chemiclord wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

You left out my favorite. The Conduit lets Sovereign put operatives on the Citadel....where his two top operatives, plus their entourages, could have operated freely if their cover hadn't been blown by sending them after the Conduit.

Oh God, how DID I forget that one?

I think my mind blocked that out of my memory.

That seems like a rather foolish plot point to be frustrated with. I always thought Sovereign was needed for the process and Saren needed to hold the door open for him. Of course, it gets made ridiculous with ME3, but as it stood, it was fine.

Tali's evidence is just outright stupid, I won't deny that. But I just took it as a means to an end and let it slide. Lazarus was too far.

[Saber1]

Sad. So much for power to the players, the trend of both prior titles. No matter what, you can't escape the limits they emplaced. There's no real success. A lot of people died for nothing. Harbinger still roams, now bonded with you (the irony of Control... I'm sure ol' Harby's going 'told ya so' in the back of your Reaper mind... and that's supposed to be the GOOD ending). They were determined to end it, at a cost of the entire fanbase. They ended it. End of story.

Now they milk it with DLC, looking to scrape another buck.

I kind of can't wait to see them go down like THQ or any of those other notable developers... Back to EVE Online (CCP), or another title with developers who actually care about their player base (or at least the majority of it).

Modifié par Saber1, 27 février 2013 - 05:36 .

[jameson654]

well i was a marine and put in places where i should have died but i dont believe that thats my only option and i didnt like that i didnt have much choice here i made sure i did every mission i could i talked to every one but it doesnt change much even if i have the highest military strength. i spent alot of time playing them im still playing them but i do wish for a better ending.

[SyK18]

I actually expected him to die after ME 2. Humanity biggest sacrifice to saving the Galaxy. Being a Destroyer and seeing that breath scene, annoyed me, annoyed me a lot. Mainly because they showed it but never acted on it. So, I did not get my closure about Shepard's fate and never will, very annoying.

[Goneaviking]

Raddx Fusion wrote...
How do you all feel about Shepard's fate?

Didn't care for the abruptness of the original cut. It felt very nihilistic, which isn't really how I roll.

On the other hand I wasn't particularly hoping for a "happy ending". A story like Mass Effect needed to end painfully, by which I mean if you didn't feel like you lost even though you beat the reapers then the scale just wouldn't have come through.

By the time EC came out I'd made my peace with the ending and was happy for the clarifications.

That said, ending with that final breath is kind of annoying because it feels like a cliff-hanger that I will never be picked up.

[PainCakesx]

I personally feel that having one or two endings where Shepard dies is reasonable.

Having it be virtually every ending is a bit much, especially for a game that gives the player such agency over Shepard's journey.

I'm a sucker for happy endings. I can do bittersweet depending on the story, but I don't like leaving story feeling more depressed than satisfied. That's how I felt with ME3's ending and it has all but killed the replayability. That breath scene, which I latch to like a life vest, is the only reason why I've replayed the game at all.

This of course doesn't take into account the multitude of other issues with the ending.

Modifié par PainCakesx, 27 février 2013 - 10:22 .

[Neizd]

My Shepard:
- Lost team on akuze
- Lost Ashley (I hated her anyway)
- Was killed in ME2
- Nobody believed him and he had to work his ass off to win.

What options he got at the end?
1. He can electroduce himself
2. He can disintegrate himself
3. He can walk into explosion
4. He can be himself and still be killed.

You know? I wanted happy ending, but not unicorn and rainbows. Some happiness at the end for a soldier whose 2 years was a very hard work. I wanted him to retire from military and would be content with ending like that...but no, he has to die because BW says so.