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[Lady of Lore]

OK, so late night musings and I thought of a strange but plausible idea of what Maric's promise to Flemeth was.

Flemeth concieved a child via Maric, this child is Morrigan.
Maric also concieves a child with Fiona (the elven mage) and that child is Alistair.

In the game there is the option of Alistair conceiving a child with Morrigan.

Ok, so here's where my sleepy brain started getting ideas.

Morrgian - Morgan Le Faye
Alistiar - Arthur

King Arthur fathers a kid with his half sister Morgan Le Fay and that child eventually leads to his downfall. The child, Mordred (in some legends) enhanced with powers from the "old gods" that were there before the new ones (christianity) came to be. Which draws some interesting parallels to the Chant of Light.

Any thoughts on this?

When I thought of it I kept shaking my head as little peices seemed to fit together.

If anything it is a possible place for Gaider to get inspiration from.

Modifié par Lady of Lore, 11 janvier 2010 - 06:17 .

[T1l]

This has been discussed before and many people have come to the same conclusion.

[Lady of Lore]

Ah, thanks. I hadn't seen anyone discussing this yet. Thanks for kindly telling me its old news.

[ShadowAldrius]

And what if Loghain or the Warden impregnated Morrigan?

[Lady of Lore]

True, I thought of that.



I just wondered if all these connections to Arthurian legend were intentional. They might not be.



It could still apply that the child of his half sister would bring about disaster.

[T1l]

Have you read the codex entry for "The Legend of Luthias Dwarfson"?

It serves to reinforce your conclusion.

[bunnie.riane]

I dunno, I really don't think Maric is Morrigan's father. Mainly just because of the timeline - that was fifteen years or so before Cailan's birth, if I remember correctly. It may have been 14-15 years before Alistair's birth, however, I can't remember how much longer The Calling happened after TST...



But anyway, regardless of which is more correct, that would have to add at least another 20 or so years to bring it up to the events of DA:O, which would make Morrigan around 35-40 at the youngest, and even older if that happened 15 years before Cailan, because he's even older than Alistair.

And Morrigan's character is not that old.



I think Flemeth had plenty of men she could trick into bed with her. She's had years of practice.



But, hey, who knows. The timeline in the books/game is a bit off in many instances, so it could still be possible. IMO that's not what happened though.

But yeah, I have no idea as to what else could have happened though

[Lady of Lore]

T1l wrote...

Have you read the codex entry for "The Legend of Luthias Dwarfson"?

It serves to reinforce your conclusion.

No I hadn't read it but I will right now Thanks for the post.

Modifié par Lady of Lore, 11 janvier 2010 - 05:57 .

[Lady of Lore]

bunnie.riane wrote...

I dunno, I really don't think Maric is Morrigan's father. Mainly just because of the timeline - that was fifteen years or so before Cailan's birth, if I remember correctly. It may have been 14-15 years before Alistair's birth, however, I can't remember how much longer The Calling happened after TST...

But anyway, regardless of which is more correct, that would have to add at least another 20 or so years to bring it up to the events of DA:O, which would make Morrigan around 35-40 at the youngest, and even older if that happened 15 years before Cailan, because he's even older than Alistair.
And Morrigan's character is not that old.

I think Flemeth had plenty of men she could trick into bed with her. She's had years of practice.

But, hey, who knows. The timeline in the books/game is a bit off in many instances, so it could still be possible. IMO that's not what happened though.
But yeah, I have no idea as to what else could have happened though

It night very well not be but it is an interesting idea.

Maybe there is some other explination or some details the writer is keeping from us, like maybe Maric went back later, Gaider said here http://social.biowar...174084/2#212241 that Meric was lost at sea in Dragon Age 9:25. Maybe that would be enough time for him to go back and Morrigan to be born and be about the right age.

The promise was to be fullfilled at a future date, so maybe...

[T1l]

Lady of Lore wrote...

Gaider said here that Meric was lost at sea in Dragon Age 9:25. Maybe that would be enough time for him to go back and Morrigan to be born and be about the right age.

The promise was to be fullfilled at a future date, so maybe...

It's one of the things I find really difficult to wrap my head around, actually. The King isn't dead, yet Calin was crowned? I find it strange. Shouldn’t Calin be a regent if the King is, supposedly, still alive? Or was he assumed dead? Strange things are afoot, and it's not really spoken about in-game. Definitely a plot point I hope David revisits at a later date.

EDIT: Ah, sorry. In looking at what David said, "Sometimes people simply die", it does appear that Maric is dead. Disregard. A shame; again, that's not explained at all in-game.

Modifié par T1l, 11 janvier 2010 - 06:05 .

[bunnie.riane]

That is true, I dunno why I never thought of him going back there at some point
[Intimidate] I think we should just force the secret out of one of the writers.

[lisakover]

If Morrigan is Marics child she would be in her early 30s, that seems perfectly reasonable.



You don't suddenly start looking like a middle-aged woman soon as you hit 30 ya'know.

[Lady of Lore]

Hahahah, I don't know if he would cave that easily, maybe we should bring Sten or Shale as backup.



We could tell the former that he has a large stash of cookies and cake and the latter that he is harboring pigeons.

[Lady of Lore]

lisakover wrote...

If Morrigan is Marics child she would be in her early 30s, that seems perfectly reasonable.

You don't suddenly start looking like a middle-aged woman soon as you hit 30 ya'know.

True

And I'm sure there's magic that can always help with the aging issues. A glamor spell could work (assuming that there is something like that in the world of Thedas)

[T1l]

Lady of Lore wrote...

True

And I'm sure there's magic that can always help with the aging issues. A glamor spell could work (assuming that there is something like that in the world of Thedas)

Well... Morrigan is a shapeshifter...

[Lady of Lore]

Hahah, pretty dang good if you tell me.



Though I do like Oghren's theory that she's a nug in human form.

[Wirdjos5]

I haven't seen any talk of the Morrigan/Morgan Le Fey connection either, though I find it interesting. I missed the codex entry T1l mentioned as well. I don't see many connections to the Arthur tales in the entry; however I couldn't help but think of the Irish hero, Cuchulain when reading it. A berserker warrior who gained fame by killing a dog and later killed his unknown son by a warrior woman seems to fit pretty well. Would anyone mind pointing out the Arthurian connection and perhaps alert me to the previous topics discussing a Cuchulain connection?

[Lady of Lore]

Arthurian legend is as I said in the original post but here's a little more in depth.



Morgan Le Fay http://www.arthurian...ut-arthur-8.php



Here's a summarized version of the legend:

"Although there are innumerable variations of the Arthurian legend, the basic story has remained the same. Arthur was the illegitimate son of Uther Pendragon, king of Britain, and Igraine, the wife of Gorlois of Cornwall.



After the death of Uther, Arthur, who had been reared in secrecy, won acknowledgment as king of Britain by successfully withdrawing a sword from a stone."



Alistair is the bastard son of Maric, may have fathered a child with his possible half sister Morrigan (Morgan Le Fay).

[1xs3thx1]

Lady of Lore wrote...

bunnie.riane wrote...

I dunno, I really don't think Maric is Morrigan's father. Mainly just because of the timeline - that was fifteen years or so before Cailan's birth, if I remember correctly. It may have been 14-15 years before Alistair's birth, however, I can't remember how much longer The Calling happened after TST...

But anyway, regardless of which is more correct, that would have to add at least another 20 or so years to bring it up to the events of DA:O, which would make Morrigan around 35-40 at the youngest, and even older if that happened 15 years before Cailan, because he's even older than Alistair.
And Morrigan's character is not that old.

I think Flemeth had plenty of men she could trick into bed with her. She's had years of practice.

But, hey, who knows. The timeline in the books/game is a bit off in many instances, so it could still be possible. IMO that's not what happened though.
But yeah, I have no idea as to what else could have happened though

It night very well not be but it is an interesting idea.

Maybe there is some other explination or some details the writer is keeping from us, like maybe Maric went back later, Gaider said here http://social.biowar...174084/2#212241 that Meric was lost at sea in Dragon Age 9:25. Maybe that would be enough time for him to go back and Morrigan to be born and be about the right age.

The promise was to be fullfilled at a future date, so maybe...

It has been confirmed if I recall correctly that Morrigan is in her mid 30's making this highly possible, although I doubt it to be true, maybe she merely wanted Maric to make Loghain a teryn? It could of been anything.

[Lady of Lore]

I could have been that.

[Sbri]

Do we know when Maric allowed the Grey Wardens to return? I had been wondering if Flemeth could somehow sense that a blight was on the way. She would undoubtedly know what it takes to defeat an archdemon. She goes to the trouble of pulling the last 2 Wardens in Ferelden off a tower, because she knows what will happen if there are none. Could the promise she exacts from Maric be that, for all that the Wardens most likely to come to Ferelden would be Orlesian, that he allow them to return?

[Maria Caliban]

Lady of Lore wrote...

Morrgian - Morgan Le Faye
Alistiar - Arthur

King Arthur fathers a kid with his half sister Morgan Le Fay and that child eventually leads to his downfall. The child, Mordred (in some legends) enhanced with powers from the "old gods" that were there before the new ones (christianity) came to be. Which draws some interesting parallels to the Chant of Light.

Any thoughts on this?

When I thought of it I kept shaking my head as little peices seemed to fit together.

If anything it is a possible place for Gaider to get inspiration from.

A couple of problems with this.

1. It assumes that the Alistiar/Morrigan/Dark Ritual ending is the 'canon' one.
2. It assumes that you place Alistiar on the throne.
3. It assumes that the god-baby is male.
4. It assumes the god-baby will come back to Ferelden and overthrow Alistiar, though Alistiar will be close to the Calling when the god-baby is a god man.

Also, David didn't name Morrigan after Morgan le Fey or the irish goddess, but a PC someone played in a RPG he GMed.

[Ubasti]

Wirdjos5 wrote...

I haven't seen any talk of the Morrigan/Morgan Le Fey connection either, though I find it interesting. I missed the codex entry T1l mentioned as well. I don't see many connections to the Arthur tales in the entry; however I couldn't help but think of the Irish hero, Cuchulain when reading it. A berserker warrior who gained fame by killing a dog and later killed his unknown son by a warrior woman seems to fit pretty well. Would anyone mind pointing out the Arthurian connection and perhaps alert me to the previous topics discussing a Cuchulain connection?

Morrigan is part of Chu'Chulainn's story. Otherwise, what if the PC is the father of Morrigan's child?


Cu'chulainn: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Cú_Chulainn

Morrigan: http://en.wikipedia....g/wiki/Morrígan

Modifié par Ubasti, 11 janvier 2010 - 09:15 .

[TemplarofSteel]

Lady of Lore wrote...

OK, so late night musings and I thought of a strange but plausible idea of what Maric's promise to Flemeth was.

Flemeth concieved a child via Maric, this child is Morrigan.
Maric also concieves a child with Fiona (the elven mage) and that child is Alistair.

I was just thinking the same thing today too. I am about halfway through the Stolen Throne and after i read through the passages with Maric and flemeth i thought the same to that the promise that was to be kept that he would conceive a child with her and that would then be Morrigan. The other possible and realistic idea is that Flemeth was warning him about the Blight and for Maric not to say anything or do anything about it until he reclaims his throne and is king. I am more inclined with the conceiving Morrigan idea, but i would not be surprised if both could have been brought up in that meeting.

[IronWolf1987]

I was thinking that once Maric would have to be King. he'd has to use his power and resources to bring Flemeth a baby/young girl who showed a great deal of magic potential. Or perhaps the promise was that day in the future Flemeth would tell Maric which child she wanted, and he would use his pull to give it to her.