256 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

macrocarl wrote...

OK let's agree to disagree on that.

Fair enough.  We disagree. 

But the other aspect of this is why would BW spend all that time on a free EC to please their audience and then not repsect the so called majority who wanted something more/ differernt? From a business standpoint it really doesn't make sense to me. Company's don't usually give out numbers since that type of info gathering is proprietary.
And if I remember correctly, the data they mined from this forum and other forums wasn't a poll per se but actually a straight up spread sheet tally of different things people wanted to see.

In the case of Computer Games these days it makes perfect sense to ignore a segment (even majority) of their audience.  The problem with computer games, is that it is (nearly) impossible to return such games, and that these games are driven by pre-orders and word of mouth.  That means that once you have the product you are stuck.  Futhermore, not alienating customers hinges on the assumption that the customer will or can go elsewhere if that customer is unhappy, but both those assumptions are problematic in today's computer gaming climate.  If I want a "old school" RPG, Bioware is (or rather was) pretty much my only choice since other products don't give the same sort of product that I want.  (Yes TESV/Bethedsa makes cRPGs but their version of an RPG is vastly different from the traditional Bioware version.)

So the way I see it, if EA/Bioware has convinced themselves that they will ultimately have more profit by firing one group of customers to get a bigger group that will always buy your games (or even a smaller group that will give you more profit because of microtransactions and other versions of income), then it makes pefect sense to fire the first group of customers....but not until you get as much of their money as possible.

That isn't evil.  It's just the way it seems to work these days unfortunately.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 25 février 2013 - 10:05 .

[Applepie_Svk]

IanPolaris wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

klarabella wrote...

http://twitter.com/J...672159190630400

Thanks. As that Twitter thread shows, Jessica is saying that the number of fans asking for post-ending DLC is not the majority.

Just want to know, have you been asked by some survey from BioWare thru BSN, Origin or any other way official way what do you think about endings and post ending content ?

They wouldn't ask like that. They'd go for indirect questions about if situation A was true would you prefer option B or option C.

Yes but we still would have heard of these surveys...or at least we should have.

-Polaris

exactly, then they cannot claim that they have a numbers...

[Mr. Gogeta34]

All signs point to the majority of fans disliking the ending. Past that, I couldn't tell you.

[BirdsallSa]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

klarabella wrote...

http://twitter.com/J...672159190630400

Thanks. As that Twitter thread shows, Jessica is saying that the number of fans asking for post-ending DLC is not the majority.

Just want to know, have you been asked by some survey from BioWare thru BSN, Origin or any other way official way what do you think about endings and post ending content ?

They wouldn't ask like that. They'd go for indirect questions about if situation A was true would you prefer option B or option C.

Yes but we still would have heard of these surveys...or at least we should have.

-Polaris

exactly, then they cannot claim that they have a numbers...

They weren't asking us though! Don't you get it? They were asking everyone else. Joe Blow who has a wife and kids and plays in his downtime or Kim Che who spends all day at the factory and comes home to unwind to some Mass Effect. Not John Smith who spends all day on the bsn complaining about a game a year after release. The fact that we haven't heard of these surveys prove their validity, because they must have reached groups we can't even imagine.

[jstme]

IanPolaris wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

klarabella wrote...

http://twitter.com/J...672159190630400

Thanks. As that Twitter thread shows, Jessica is saying that the number of fans asking for post-ending DLC is not the majority.

Just want to know, have you been asked by some survey from BioWare thru BSN, Origin or any other way official way what do you think about endings and post ending content ?

They wouldn't ask like that. They'd go for indirect questions about if situation A was true would you prefer option B or option C.

Yes but we still would have heard of these surveys...or at least we should have.

-Polaris

Now that i think about it... I got survey via mail form Bioware, titled "Whats your opinion,we are listening". I remember getting all excited thinking it is about ME3 and now i will say all that i think about awful ending,then there was 1 question about what games from Bioware i played with list of all games and when i checked the boxes and sent results poll suddenly ended.
Maybe this was the poll and they were looking for people without previous experience with Bioware games? Since "whats your opinion" had nothing to do with that question and it left me very puzzled.

[Nerevar-as]

BirdsallSa wrote...

Many an injustice has been done on this thread, and now it's time for the haters of the bsn to be proven wrong once and for all. Welcome back to reality!
https://twitter.com/...011276701118464

Thanks.

I know some people here have a better understanding of statistical surveys than me. How on earth do you get opinions on something without citing the subject matter?

And Birdsalla, BW isn´t a sport team. Being blindly loyal when they screw up only encourages them to keep doing it.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You want to know how you get a survey that shows negative results to give a positive result from a marketing standpoint? I'll show you. I was in marketing for 10 years, and I've massaged numbers to placate the executive board of the company I worked for. It's not from taking the data straight away from what you receive from your respondents. Your boss would never accept that anyway. You keep changing how you interpret the data. Here's what I mean.

Question: What do you think of the ending to Mass Effect 3?

1) I Love the Ending more than anything!!!!
2) The Ending is great
3) The Ending is good
4) The ending is fair
5) The ending is not good
6) The ending is bad
7) The ending is terrible
8) I hate the ending enough to come bomb your facility.

Okay now we have our choices. I just made up these numbers below to illustrate a point.

1) 2%
2) 4%
3) 6%
4) 20%____Positive_________________________________________
5) 15%.........Negative
6) 25%
7) 17%
8) 11%

Now we have our results. You look a them and at first glance you can say they are pretty negative. 68% give the ending a negative rating. So you give that to your boss. Your boss says to you, "we can't turn this into the board. How about you think about this for a while." So you think about it. Only 11% hate it so much they want to bomb the office, and 17% think it is terrible, but other than that, it looks like even though some say it's bad they can probably live with it. They're not going to be vocal about it. So you have 28% who are going to be vocally dissatisfied with the ending. So this is your vocal minority. And
perhaps out of the 17% given the way things are in America today only about 3% of those are going to be vocal about it in reality.

So you end up with 14% who will continue to repeatedly froth at the mouth and spew negative remarks on forums and in social media about this topic who are going to look like crazy loons to the rest. -- You have just succeeded in marginalizing a large majority by turning them into the Vocal Minority. And you call the ones who like the endings the Silent Majority. Do you see how this works?

And on twitter you say "sorry, you were not in the majority."

Marketing and politics 101. Fox News 101. Spin 101.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 25 février 2013 - 10:14 .

[Ninja Stan]

This discussion is becoming one that is not ME3 story or campaign related. If it cannot be moved back on topic, it will be locked.

[BirdsallSa]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

You want to know how you get a survey that shows negative results to give a positive result from a marketing standpoint? I'll show you. I was in marketing for 10 years, and I've massaged numbers to placate the executive board of the company I worked for. It's not from taking the data straight away from what you receive from your respondents. Your boss would never accept that anyway. You keep changing how you interpret the data. Here's what I mean.

Question: What do you think of the ending to Mass Effect 3?

1) I Love the Ending more than anything!!!!
2) The Ending is great
3) The Ending is good
4) The ending is fair
5) The ending is not good
6) The ending is bad
7) The ending is terrible
8) I hate the ending enough to come bomb your facility.

Okay now we have our choices. I just made up these numbers below to illustrate a point.

1) 2%
2) 4%
3) 6%
4) 20%____Positive_________________________________________
5) 15%.........Negative
6) 25%
7) 17%
8) 11%

Now we have our results. You look a them and at first glance you can say they are pretty negative. 68% give the ending a negative rating. So you give that to your boss. Your boss says to you, "we can't turn this into the board. How about you think about this for a while." So you think about it. Only 11% hate it so much they want to bomb the office, and 17% think it is terrible, but other than that, it looks like even though some say it's bad they can probably live with it. They're not going to be vocal about it. So you have 28% who are going to be vocally dissatisfied with the ending. So this is your vocal minority. And
perhaps out of the 17% given the way things are in America today only about 3% of those are going to be vocal about it in reality.

So you end up with 14% who will continue to repeatedly froth at the mouth and spew negative remarks on forums and in social media about this topic who are going to look like crazy loons to the rest. -- You have just succeeded in marginalizing a large majority by calling them the Vocal Minority. And you call the ones who like the endings the
Silent Majority.Do you see how this works?

And on twitter you say "sorry, you were not in the majority."

Marketing and politics 101. Fox News 101. Spin 101.

Yeah yeah, Mr. Marketing hotshot posting on the bsn about a game ending a year after release. The difference is, Bioware has real numbers not tricky mumbo jumbo and manipulated data.

[Haargel]

 Didn't read everything so I don't know if it has been said before.

ME3 has sold close to 5 million copies.

The retake movement (I was part of it, make no mistake) had close to 70k members at it's peak.

I cannot call that "The majority of fans"

Sorry. It's probablt the hardcore fanbase but if people were so upset they would come over to the BSN and give their vote, at least I think.

I have never been on the BSN untill ME3, I started searching if I did anything wrong and ended up on the BSN.

[EnvyTB075]

>Claims to know the statistics
>Doesn't share the statistics
>Makes definitive statement anyway

And you wonder why no ones believing it.

BirdsallSa wrote...
The difference is, Bioware has real numbers not tricky mumbo jumbo and manipulated data.

I would love to see the evidence. Twitter is not evidence.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 25 février 2013 - 10:18 .

[Jaulen]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

*snip*

I wish there was a LIKE button.

[Nerevar-as]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

snip

Thanks.

I dismissed the survey when she commented on obscuring the subject matter. But now that we are at it, has anyone realized of ANY survey BW has down the past half-year or so? There´s also the implication that they´d surveyed millions. Hope that was a figure of speech. Because I don´t believe any survey would go unnoticed after questioning at least 1/5 total population.

[nos_astra]

3DandBeyond wrote...
Ok, I don't understand your point, but then have you received some random survey from some unknown company that asked you indirect questions about hypothetical situations or no?

 No. You'd probably be aware that this is EA asking, or Bioware or at least that it's a survey about your gaming habits. I was just being really careful.

And actually companies do use their real names and ask real direct questions of their customers or they're idiots.  I have gotten surveys from a lot of companies of the products I own and have registered.  I don't open emails or attached files or randomly respond to unknown surveys.

The indirect approach is used to avoid strategic answering, e.g. making unrealistic demands because you want to influence the outcome in your favor, go big or go home. They'd want to know what you may find satisfactory, not your wildest, wettest dreams. 

Modifié par klarabella, 25 février 2013 - 10:19 .

[Nerevar-as]

Ninja Stan wrote...

This discussion is becoming one that is not ME3 story or campaign related. If it cannot be moved back on topic, it will be locked.

Send if to off-topic instead of closing it, please.

Let´s face it, unless BW can provide actual numbers, what they claim is hard to believe with some knowledge of statisitics. Maybe with more knowledge of statistics we´d understand how you get reliable opinions on a subject never mentioning said subject, but until then, well, I don´t believe it.

[dorktainian]

I love the story. If I could have had my vote I'd have voted it the best story ever. That moment when you get to the end and it all makes sense. its just so perfectly scripted. seriously and now they're adding extra spice to the mix with the 'soon to be epic' citadel dlc, seriously we have been blessed with such an amazing story and such an amazing ending. That bit where shep wakes up.....oscar winning material right there.

[nos_astra]

Haargel wrote...

 Didn't read everything so I don't know if it has been said before.

ME3 has sold close to 5 million copies.

The retake movement (I was part of it, make no mistake) had close to 70k members at it's peak.

I cannot call that "The majority of fans"

Sorry. It's probablt the hardcore fanbase but if people were so upset they would come over to the BSN and give their vote, at least I think.

I have never been on the BSN untill ME3, I started searching if I did anything wrong and ended up on the BSN.

True, it's not the majority. It is, however, a significant part of the fandom. You rarely get so many people to agree to speak up and act.

Modifié par klarabella, 25 février 2013 - 10:22 .

[Nerevar-as]

klarabella wrote...

The indirect approach is used to avoid strategic answering, e.g. making unrealistic demands because you want to influence the outcome in your favor, go big or go home. They'd want to know what you may find satisfactory, not your wildest, wettest dreams. 

It almost sounds as if they look how far they can push people rather than how to make them happy.

[nos_astra]

Nerevar-as wrote...

klarabella wrote...

The indirect approach is used to avoid strategic answering, e.g. making unrealistic demands because you want to influence the outcome in your favor, go big or go home. They'd want to know what you may find satisfactory, not your wildest, wettest dreams. 

It almost sounds as if they look how far they can push people rather than how to make them happy.

Their goal is not to make you happy. Their goal is to make you happy enough so that you'll buy their products and come back to buy more.

[Eterna]

Jaulen wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The funniest part is that Clevernoob thinks this is some sort of democracy in which numbers matter.

It's funny that you think in Business numbers DON'T matter.

If Bioware felt that way and in someway needed those numbers they would have changed the ending, no?

[Sanunes]

The problem I have with any poll done by people that are trying to prove a point is it will always be bias even if the bias isn't intentional because they already have a strong feeling on the subject, the other problem is generally people go looking for that poll so it would be influenced by the population that want to say something. The only poll I would even consider remotely accurate wouldn't be possible for it would require BioWare/EA/3rd Party to get into contact with people who bought the game and complete a survey that way.

Just remember because of online voting Wil Wheaton was voted FMH Sexiest Woman alive in 2002.

[shepskisaac]

Simple question to Clever Noob - I get that you want a new ending, but Citadel & Reckoning are the last DLCs. It's over, Bioware will make no more major DLC for ME3 of any kind. So what's the point of all of this still continuing? Even if you convinced Bioware that majority of fans want new ending, it's not gonna happen. DLC development is over. They're moving to new projects.

[Redbelle]

Ninja Stan wrote...

This discussion is becoming one that is not ME3 story or campaign related. If it cannot be moved back on topic, it will be locked.

You would simply not believe the length of time and effort I put into dissecting how survey's are conducted and the length's people have to go to, to do them right.

Then I saw Stan's msg on the next page and..............

<sniff> Delete? Where are you? Come here....... I'm sorry post that will never be. Daddy love's you. <clunk>