256 réponses à ce sujet

[BirdsallSa]

Reap_ii wrote...

Ykulnu wrote...

It takes a considerable lack of environmental awareness to not see that the endings were not well received by a very sizable amount of the community at large.

this made me laugh.  but yes, anyone with a small working knowledge of writing, or has ever written anything, or for that matter, has ever read a good story, knows these endings were not dont well.  you CANT introduce a new antagonist who is also a protagonist (if you believe him and pick control/synthesis) within the last 2 minutes of a 5 year epic journey.  its a true "WTF" if i have ever seen one. 

I will admit, even I had a brief chuckle at the "You Can't introduce a new antagonist who is also a protagonist..." bit.

[Hexley UK]

Sejborg wrote...

Are you people retarded? They said they wouldn't touch the endings again. To say that bioware don't listen to feedback is a lie - they are releasing a dlc where you meet up with companions from ME2 plus Wrex.

So how about you show me the polls saying the majority don't want to team up with the old gang.

We'll see how it sells.

Omega was barely in the top 1000 Xbox live downloads in it's week of release.

Nobody I know has bought any of the DLC and they all hated the ending pre and post EC.....coincidence?

Modifié par Hexley UK, 25 février 2013 - 05:42 .

[3DandBeyond]

There are quite a few problems with the twitter retorts used by BW employees and even the shallow responses that have summarized their feelings about the whole thing here. First and foremost is that in no way does the EC (a glossy version of the original endings) live up to the promises BW themselves made, both in game and in hype. Then, there is the issue of whether or not to believe that they would think they had done the series justice with ME3 and especially the ending (tack onto that the incredibly juvenile DLC). No way can I believe that anyone that loved this story and these games is proud of this pile they've created. It goes counter to everything, every promise and every admission they made about what they hoped ME would do for gaming, and especially what ME3 would do.

The polls are one thing, but so is commentary on especially these boards. After all this is the place where people who actually own the game can come and converse. The obvious and overwhelming fact is that the people that loved the endings are a smaller sampling of the whole community and of all those that own(ed) the game. The majority of the comments that are of a more positive nature mostly say that the poster did not LOVE the endings, nor even really think they were great or good. What is usually stated by pro-enders is the endings were good enough, could have been better, were ok, and then they go on or have gone on to say, "but I'm done with Bioware." Seriously, did they listen to their fans? I think not. They have totally disregarded the nuance of posts here and have never shown that they understood a thing. I think they heard what they wanted to hear. And then kept repeating it so often they began to think it was fact.

I'm not saying people didn't like the endings-sure there were people that did, but what I'm saying is that it's a fact that the endings were not what was promised and it's a fact that vast groups of people really intensely dislike them. And that those that are on the fence more often than not sound more like they disliked the endings than that they liked them. It's not a glowing review to say that the endings could have been better or weren't what should have been, even if the reviewer says, "but they were ok", and "I don't hate them", and "get over it, they sucked but so what-all game endings do." If this is what BW has taken as praise then good luck-they'll need it.

I am very sure that they are taking all that data-mining stuff they get from people logged into Origin as some kind of a sign that people just love the game and the endings and MP. But they don't understand their own data. They have no idea how many people repeatedly played the endings because they just plain could not believe what had happened, or because they wanted to get a specific quote or see how horrible it all was again. I know I did.

Bottom line here is that majority/minority does not matter. I can state emphatically that the number of people that have been cited in polls (the sampling data) is large enough to make a real case for any statement that the majority of people loved the EC to be a major fallacy and misrepresentation of the facts. But the real point here is if you have say 1 million people (this is just an example) that bought a product and 300,000 don't like it, you can bask in the glory of 700,000 that did like it (or just didn't hate it) or really try and understand why 300,000 didn't like it at all and don't wish to be your customers again. The numbers for ME3 are bound to be much worse than this for BW.

[3DandBeyond]

Reap_ii wrote...

Ykulnu wrote...

It takes a considerable lack of environmental awareness to not see that the endings were not well received by a very sizable amount of the community at large.

this made me laugh.  but yes, anyone with a small working knowledge of writing, or has ever written anything, or for that matter, has ever read a good story, knows these endings were not dont well.  you CANT introduce a new antagonist who is also a protagonist (if you believe him and pick control/synthesis) within the last 2 minutes of a 5 year epic journey.  its a true "WTF" if i have ever seen one. 

Exactly.  No way do I believe that anyone was actually proud of this achievement.  Whoever thought up the catalyst/kid has never read a book nor taken any writing lessons, I'm thinking.

[Sejborg]

Hexley UK wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Are you people retarded? They said they wouldn't touch the endings again. To say that bioware don't listen to feedback is a lie - they are releasing a dlc where you meet up with companions from ME2 plus Wrex.

So how about you show me the polls saying the majority don't want to team up with the old gang.

We'll see how it sells.

Omega was barely in the top 1000 Xbox live downloads in it's week of release.

yes. That's The only poll that counts. They had to scrap the da2 dlc. ME3 is another story. 

[nos_astra]

This is actually a very interesting situation. I wonder if it could be turned into a marketing thesis. What does the customer really think about my product/brand? The holy grail of marketing (according to my professor).

And Bioware claims to have conclusive data about what their customers want and what they thought about the ending. Did they do a survey themselves that I'm not aware of or are they just trying to read the tea leaves?

Modifié par klarabella, 25 février 2013 - 05:49 .

[Hexley UK]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Reap_ii wrote...

Ykulnu wrote...

It takes a considerable lack of environmental awareness to not see that the endings were not well received by a very sizable amount of the community at large.

this made me laugh.  but yes, anyone with a small working knowledge of writing, or has ever written anything, or for that matter, has ever read a good story, knows these endings were not dont well.  you CANT introduce a new antagonist who is also a protagonist (if you believe him and pick control/synthesis) within the last 2 minutes of a 5 year epic journey.  its a true "WTF" if i have ever seen one. 

Exactly.  No way do I believe that anyone was actually proud of this achievement.  Whoever thought up the catalyst/kid has never read a book nor taken any writing lessons, I'm thinking.

Agree, it's incredibly worrying that they pushed ME3 out the door thinking that that was an acceptable ending...even more worrying that they didn't even fix it properly when they had the chance.

[Xellith]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Yeah well, I'm not a clevernoob fan either, but point me to one poll that says a majority of players liked the endings.

[Applepie_Svk]

While I do agree with some points, but words used to adress these surveys are misleading -
the surveys are suggesting that majority hates ending and not majority hates ending.

[M Hedonist]

We will never know. The next ME game? Oh, that one will be fine and successful, I can tell you that much, no matter what people thought of the endings. ME just has such a strong MP following now, the story isn't as important anymore as it used to be.

[CroGamer002]

So in politics, less then 100 people are enough to show political opinions of country of several million people living in it, but in video games sample of 1000's and 10,000's of couple of million costumers is not valid?



Can someone explain me how and why this works this way?

[Applepie_Svk]

Mesina2 wrote...

So in politics, less then 100 people are enough to show political opinions of country of several million people living in it, but in video games sample of 1000's and 10,000's of couple of million costumers is not valid?



Can someone explain me how and why this works this way?

It´s a way which BioWare and EA wants you to think that it supposed works...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 25 février 2013 - 06:00 .

[Dr. Megaverse]

I can agree that the evidence presented to date by those wishing for a change to the endings is indeed biased. However as I have yet to see any evidentiary data to the contrary be presented can you really blame me for believing the majority prefer a different conclusion?

I am willing to be as unbiased, as I possible can be, in the hopes of having a legitimate argument based off of data...I've yet to have that argument as I have not seen evidence to the contrary...

[MrGMM88]

Can we just admit that mistakes were made and move on? Is so hard to say "sry guys we screwed up but we wont do it again"? Whats up the ego of these people? A successful game launch looks different, everyone knows that.

People these days...

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Please don't post videos by that dude on here. Please. Don't feed his ego.

[Hexley UK]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Please don't post videos by that dude on here. Please. Don't feed his ego.

But he's right...deal with it.

[Kel Riever]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Please don't post videos by that dude on here. Please. Don't feed his ego.

Why?   I find his video flawed, but frankly, it has more sources of independently verifyable information than BioWare has provided me.  Personally, I got to the 8 minute mark and skipped to the conclusion. 

[Jaulen]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Reap_ii wrote...

Ykulnu wrote...

It takes a considerable lack of environmental awareness to not see that the endings were not well received by a very sizable amount of the community at large.

this made me laugh.  but yes, anyone with a small working knowledge of writing, or has ever written anything, or for that matter, has ever read a good story, knows these endings were not dont well.  you CANT introduce a new antagonist who is also a protagonist (if you believe him and pick control/synthesis) within the last 2 minutes of a 5 year epic journey.  its a true "WTF" if i have ever seen one. 

Exactly.  No way do I believe that anyone was actually proud of this achievement.  Whoever thought up the catalyst/kid has never read a book nor taken any writing lessons, I'm thinking.

Anecdotal evidence, but I don't know one person in my circle of firends who have played ME3 (all college graduates aged 25 to 40, all guys except for me, and they play FPS and RPGs) that liked the ending to ME3. Most of them have not played through the game more than once, some have not finished the game after others of us hit the ending first and started railing against it....they have all moved on, and they will likely never come across a poll to let Bioware or even other users know how they felt.

A year later, and I am still upset about the ending. Why? I thought the storyline was well done, the lore well detailed, the visuals and voice acting lovely, the characters worthy of bonding with (in as much as you can with game characters....Heck I cried bug sobby tears for Mordin....and Youtubed the Renegade option there and cried even harder that someone would do that to Mordin *melodramatic much?*).  

While I played, I WAS Shepard (excellent job of hooking the player to the character), live or die, I wanted my sacrifice, and the sacrifices I made others go through to MEAN something....I wanted to shout triumphantly or cry weepy tears over Shep's death, or just get misty-eyed seeing the combined might of the galaxy fail against the reapers, or have more 'Hell Yeah!" moments in ending cinematics like the thresher-maw taking out a reaper. I wanted a chance to gloriously succeed (even in death) or go out flaming in failure.

Modifié par Jaulen, 25 février 2013 - 06:06 .

[3DandBeyond]

Sauruz wrote...

We will never know. The next ME game? Oh, that one will be fine and successful, I can tell you that much, no matter what people thought of the endings. ME just has such a strong MP following now, the story isn't as important anymore as it used to be.

Well, I feel you may be right on this one, however-if EA and BW think that MP will carry them for long then they don't truly understand what's coming that other devs are doing.  Bungie for example.  I like ME3's MP well enough, but not as a substitute for the story.  And not with the microtransactions.  I think anyone that pays for that stuff is a fool, because the number of game failures (server issues) and times people just plain lose stuff they use ingame credits for, is incredible.  The MP offering is rather juvenile as MP goes.  Yes, I have played it a lot.  But I have other games that I have bought mainly for the MP-ME was never one of them and never will be.

If indeed BW goes for the MP experience then they will have totally lost what would have made them unique.  I look at Dead Space 3 as the example of what's to come, EA's direction.  I now look at games and if EA is on the label, it's a definite do not buy, because of MP and micro-transactions.

[SimonTheFrog]

If the polls are so arbitrary, then why is there not a single poll that returns a majority of "ending is nice".

Or is there? I haven't seen any.

But either way, even IF the people that didn't like the ending were a minority, they still should be heard by BioWare regardless. And their criticism should be acknowledged and taken seriously.

Neither has happened so far.

[Liamv2]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Please don't post videos by that dude on here. Please. Don't feed his ego.

Admitedly this is his less annoying VID's he only made fun of people who liked the ending once <_<

Modifié par Liamv2, 25 février 2013 - 06:09 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Hexley UK wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Please don't post videos by that dude on here. Please. Don't feed his ego.

But he's right...deal with it.

lolno

[nos_astra]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Please don't post videos by that dude on here. Please. Don't feed his ego.

But he's right...deal with it.

lolno

Prove it!

Modifié par klarabella, 25 février 2013 - 06:09 .

[Hexley UK]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Please don't post videos by that dude on here. Please. Don't feed his ego.

But he's right...deal with it.

lolno

Show me one piece of evidence from a credible source and with decent numbers that shows any different.

I'll wait right here....take your time...

Lol @ the pro-ender minority.

Modifié par Hexley UK, 25 février 2013 - 06:11 .

[RaenImrahl]

@Brovikk Rasputin and others: Please get this discussion back on track. Discussing the merits or vices of a particular video producer is *not* game-related.