256 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

AlanC9 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

I can´t also think of anything other than a survey that would indicate most fans didn´t want any new endings. I haven´t seen any in the latest months.

Is there a particular kind of new ending a majority of respondents wanted? I didn't generally follow those surveys.

No idea. I meant a BW survey. I guess that when you claim to have the true numbers, you got them yourself. I don´t think it´s information you can extrapolate from the achievements (as you could with how many people finished the game and how many times), so they should have sampled some time around the last few months.

[CronoDragoon]

klarabella wrote...

http://twitter.com/J...672159190630400

Thanks. As that Twitter thread shows, Jessica is saying that the number of fans asking for post-ending DLC is not the majority.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 25 février 2013 - 09:41 .

[IanPolaris]

macrocarl wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

I loved the EC and feel that they listened to me. I'm not trying to controdictory but those who have not liked the ending don't like it but there are other groups of players out there (like me) who are super satisfied and happy with how things turned out. I think the plain truth of it is that you can't make everyone happy - I just happen to have lucked out this time around

Bully for you, but that so isn't the point.  There will be some that like the EC and some that loathe it.  What I thought we were talking about was Bioware's CLAIM that more people liked the post EC endings than didn't like them, and there isn't a shred of evidence for that near as I can tell (and a lot of evidence that strongly suggests that Bioware is lying).

-Polaris

I think what I was trying to get at is that the folks who didn't like the ending were super vocal and hence the polls floating around. I've seen a bunch of them so I know they're there but for those who really dug the endings (I can speak towards myself and all of my friends who've played through ME3 that liked/ loved the endings) we didn't bother with polls. I'm betting that that's true of others too. I don't know for sure but I feel that there's others out there.
So while the polls have numbers I wouldn't put too much weight on them being hard evidence. I hope that's clearer.

It's clearer, but I simply don't agree.  I might agree if it was a couple of polls, or even all polls done by one outfit, or done one way, or done in one period of time.  But it's not.  EVERY public poll and survey (some done with very different methods and from many different sources) are all showing the same thing.

Furthermore, if the pro-enders really were being under-represented, when why hasn't a single scientific poll with careful controls been done to actually find out?  This is important data for both bioware and EA (for future game developement if nothing else!) and the raw data via Origins is readily available.  Also the cost of doing one such survey with as little as 500 people (more than enough if you are careful with your sampling....most political polls use about this number) would be enough to put this issue to rest.

The fact that we haven't seen any thing from Bioware tells me that Bioware has done such analysis and they don't want to make it public probably because they don't like what it says.  If it did, I see no reason why Bioware wouldn't make such a poll available for public perusal.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

CronoDragoon wrote...

klarabella wrote...

http://twitter.com/J...672159190630400

Thanks. As that Twitter thread shows, Jessica is saying that the number of fans asking for post-ending DLC is not the majority.

A statement I find....dubious....given the weight of all the publically available data we have to this point.

-Polaris

[Applepie_Svk]

CronoDragoon wrote...

klarabella wrote...

http://twitter.com/J...672159190630400

Thanks. As that Twitter thread shows, Jessica is saying that the number of fans asking for post-ending DLC is not the majority.

Just want to know, have you been asked by some survey from BioWare thru BSN, Origin or any other way official way what do you think about endings and post ending content ?

[dasGleamer]

If anybody says they believe that most people were satisfied with the ME3 endings, I think they're being intentionally obtuse.

There is overwhelming objective evidence that the majority of players found the endings revolting and unfitting. The only "evidence" we have to the contrary is the lip-service by the manufacturer.

Again, to believe that there is not majority disappointment, you have to be incapable of critical thinking and unable to understand the generalizability of statistics.

[nos_astra]

IanPolaris wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

klarabella wrote...

http://twitter.com/J...672159190630400

Thanks. As that Twitter thread shows, Jessica is saying that the number of fans asking for post-ending DLC is not the majority.

A statement I find....dubious....given the weight of all the publically available data we have to this point.

-Polaris

There is a difference between "asking for a post-ending DLC" and "being displeased with the ending".

Edit:
I certainly think the ending is atrocious. I'm not interested in anything ME-related from Bioware, though. I'm happy to discuss ME, replay ME1, youtube ME2 and 3. I enjoy fanfiction and fanart a lot. 

Their market research could indeed reveal that while the ending wasn't received well, sticking to their guns is the best option and just selling inconsequential but fun combat and romance content might do well despite all misgivings.

Modifié par klarabella, 25 février 2013 - 09:57 .

[Nerevar-as]

klarabella wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

klarabella wrote...

http://twitter.com/J...672159190630400

Thanks. As that Twitter thread shows, Jessica is saying that the number of fans asking for post-ending DLC is not the majority.

A statement I find....dubious....given the weight of all the publically available data we have to this point.

-Polaris

There is a difference between "asking for a post-ending DLC" and "being displeased with the ending".

Let´s not get into semantics, POV & literal truths, and all such. I got sick of that when I compared the game to the pre-release statements. Only a blind person wouldn´t see what the majority of the fanbase wanted. But what did Flemeth say? It´s never darker than when your eyes are closed?

[BirdsallSa]

Jessica Merizan has also stated on her twitter, that without disclosing too much information, she can confirm millions of fans were reached out to by the research team and that they did an incredibly comprehensive job. We know with certainty that they received the opinions of a variety of groups who have not been heard, because no one on the bsn or other gaming forums knows of these surveys. I for one am glad Bioware is giving a voice to the voiceless.

[IanPolaris]

klarabella wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

klarabella wrote...

http://twitter.com/J...672159190630400

Thanks. As that Twitter thread shows, Jessica is saying that the number of fans asking for post-ending DLC is not the majority.

A statement I find....dubious....given the weight of all the publically available data we have to this point.

-Polaris

There is a difference between "asking for a post-ending DLC" and "being displeased with the ending".

Indeed there is, but if you look at the 'internals' of all the surveys (including at least that was done using professional statistical methodes, announced here on BSN, and send to Bioware free of charge), the number one thing that people wanted (and the number one reason people were displeased with the endings) was because of the ending content...and those that were initially displeased with the endings for other reasons changed their mind with the EC (which is why there are more pro-enders now than prior to the EC which should suprise no one).

So while they aren't the same question, they are very closely related, and the available data makes her statement on twitter dubious at best.

-Polaris

[macrocarl]

IanPolaris wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

I loved the EC and feel that they listened to me. I'm not trying to controdictory but those who have not liked the ending don't like it but there are other groups of players out there (like me) who are super satisfied and happy with how things turned out. I think the plain truth of it is that you can't make everyone happy - I just happen to have lucked out this time around

Bully for you, but that so isn't the point.  There will be some that like the EC and some that loathe it.  What I thought we were talking about was Bioware's CLAIM that more people liked the post EC endings than didn't like them, and there isn't a shred of evidence for that near as I can tell (and a lot of evidence that strongly suggests that Bioware is lying).

-Polaris

I think what I was trying to get at is that the folks who didn't like the ending were super vocal and hence the polls floating around. I've seen a bunch of them so I know they're there but for those who really dug the endings (I can speak towards myself and all of my friends who've played through ME3 that liked/ loved the endings) we didn't bother with polls. I'm betting that that's true of others too. I don't know for sure but I feel that there's others out there.
So while the polls have numbers I wouldn't put too much weight on them being hard evidence. I hope that's clearer.

It's clearer, but I simply don't agree.  I might agree if it was a couple of polls, or even all polls done by one outfit, or done one way, or done in one period of time.  But it's not.  EVERY public poll and survey (some done with very different methods and from many different sources) are all showing the same thing.

Furthermore, if the pro-enders really were being under-represented, when why hasn't a single scientific poll with careful controls been done to actually find out?  This is important data for both bioware and EA (for future game developement if nothing else!) and the raw data via Origins is readily available.  Also the cost of doing one such survey with as little as 500 people (more than enough if you are careful with your sampling....most political polls use about this number) would be enough to put this issue to rest.

The fact that we haven't seen any thing from Bioware tells me that Bioware has done such analysis and they don't want to make it public probably because they don't like what it says.  If it did, I see no reason why Bioware wouldn't make such a poll available for public perusal.

-Polaris

OK let's agree to disagree on that.
But the other aspect of this is why would BW spend all that time on a free EC to please their audience and then not repsect the so called majority who wanted something more/ differernt? From a business standpoint it really doesn't make sense to me. Company's don't usually give out numbers since that type of info gathering is proprietary.
And if I remember correctly, the data they mined from this forum and other forums wasn't a poll per se but actually a straight up spread sheet tally of different things people wanted to see.

[dorktainian]

or they could have moved a certain 'group' of individuals away from the main forums and sought their opinions....

[Redbelle]

CronoDragoon wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
No they aren't.  They are different because of the inherent limitation of the computer (instead of a DM) and people have always accepted this from the days of the earliest MUDs, but inherent in RPG gaming has ALWAYS been the inherent idea that the protagonist controls the story, and it is something that Bioware certainly adhered to (at least the illusion of it as much as humanly possible) in their CRPGs...even if some of those choices because of contraints had to be limited in some fashion.

The point is that in an RPG, the author/dev does NOT have total control.  If he (or she) tries, then it's not an RPG anymore but a story where you are allowed to play the game as the main character.  Mind you that's fine and there are many fine games with that model, but they aren't RPGs.

-Polaris

Semantics aside, there is the key difference of the story changing in tabletops as the story progresses, because of an idea the DM likes and decides to implement, because a certain story gets boring, etc. Video game RPGS, up until patches and DLC, were always finished products, and in that sense the company had total control because they had total control over all the ways you could progress.

In a table top RPG there is control in that if you can think it you can do it, because the system of the game is controlled by another human who can adapt to those action's.

In a console type game, the system is set in stone and the player's action's are defined by what the game allow's to be possible.

However, to me, good RPG game's let you do alot of thing's. Not just one thing, over and over. For me a good RPG give's you many way's to interact with the game.

[nos_astra]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

klarabella wrote...

http://twitter.com/J...672159190630400

Thanks. As that Twitter thread shows, Jessica is saying that the number of fans asking for post-ending DLC is not the majority.

Just want to know, have you been asked by some survey from BioWare thru BSN, Origin or any other way official way what do you think about endings and post ending content ?

They wouldn't ask like that. They'd go for indirect questions about if situation A was true would you prefer option B or option C.

[IanPolaris]

BirdsallSa wrote...

Jessica Merizan has also stated on her twitter, that without disclosing too much information, she can confirm millions of fans were reached out to by the research team and that they did an incredibly comprehensive job. We know with certainty that they received the opinions of a variety of groups who have not been heard, because no one on the bsn or other gaming forums knows of these surveys. I for one am glad Bioware is giving a voice to the voiceless.

Supposedly all these surveys were done, but no one has heard a word about them (even from the anti-enders...and there had to be at least a few) except for Bioware themselves?

Yes, that is indeed giving voice to the voiceless since imaginary people tend not to have much in the way of voices (and yes the sarcasm of this sentence is fully intended).

-Polaris

[3DandBeyond]

klarabella wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...


A statement I find....dubious....given the weight of all the publically available data we have to this point.

-Polaris

There is a difference between "asking for a post-ending DLC" and "being displeased with the ending".

Sure there is but in terms of video games there's a high degree of complaining not following action-more so than with any other product.  It's one of the reasons devs tend to go more for the pre-pubescent couch potato whose parents are not at home.  What I mean is, if a game sucks, that kid isn't going to complain so loud, not like my sister-in-law would over some bad product.  She is the return things queen.  But kids whose parents buy them games to shut them up or to babysit them (I mean the 5 year olds playing Black Ops 2)-those kids may hate a game, but would never think of returning it.

That idea exists here and has been at the core of the problem.  Fans who disliked the endings have been attacked for having that view by other fans who think no one should be able to complain or ask for a fix.  So BW has acted with impugnity-they believe they can do no wrong, because there are fans who say they don't like the endings but so what, it's all ok, anyway.

I think the notion is ridiculous.  If someone else doesn't like the ending then it makes no sense to me to be at odds with others who do not and feel that BW has done themselves some real damage here.  Yes, it's late in the day-but BW still has done nothing to live up to their own promises.  And the idea that they believe the vast majority of fans is super happy about all this is ridiculous. 

[IanPolaris]

klarabella wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

klarabella wrote...

http://twitter.com/J...672159190630400

Thanks. As that Twitter thread shows, Jessica is saying that the number of fans asking for post-ending DLC is not the majority.

Just want to know, have you been asked by some survey from BioWare thru BSN, Origin or any other way official way what do you think about endings and post ending content ?

They wouldn't ask like that. They'd go for indirect questions about if situation A was true would you prefer option B or option C.

Yes but we still would have heard of these surveys...or at least we should have.

-Polaris

[Nerevar-as]

BirdsallSa wrote...

Jessica Merizan has also stated on her twitter, that without disclosing too much information, she can confirm millions of fans were reached out to by the research team and that they did an incredibly comprehensive job. We know with certainty that they received the opinions of a variety of groups who have not been heard, because no one on the bsn or other gaming forums knows of these surveys. I for one am glad Bioware is giving a voice to the voiceless.

That tweet I really want to see.

[Reorte]

CronoDragoon wrote...

klarabella wrote...

http://twitter.com/J...672159190630400

Thanks. As that Twitter thread shows, Jessica is saying that the number of fans asking for post-ending DLC is not the majority.

And I can well believe that. Most people won't ask for anything no matter how they feel. The question is, given usual customer behaviour, whether the number asking for it is significant.

[clarkusdarkus]

BirdsallSa wrote...

Jessica Merizan has also stated on her twitter, that without disclosing too much information, she can confirm millions of fans were reached out to by the research team and that they did an incredibly comprehensive job. We know with certainty that they received the opinions of a variety of groups who have not been heard, because no one on the bsn or other gaming forums knows of these surveys. I for one am glad Bioware is giving a voice to the voiceless.

i could have sworn i just seen that voice for the voiceless quote at ign...hmmm strange, Anyway how does one reach out to millions, they sold 5million copies, That would imply nearly all of us would have been reached and i very much doubt its the case, Anyway smoke n mirrors crap again so im off to play legend of dragoon..

[3DandBeyond]

klarabella wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...


Just want to know, have you been asked by some survey from BioWare thru BSN, Origin or any other way official way what do you think about endings and post ending content ?

They wouldn't ask like that. They'd go for indirect questions about if situation A was true would you prefer option B or option C.

Ok, I don't understand your point, but then have you received some random survey from some unknown company that asked you indirect questions about hypothetical situations or no?

And actually companies do use their real names and ask real direct questions of their customers or they're idiots.  I have gotten surveys from a lot of companies of the products I own and have registered.  I don't open emails or attached files or randomly respond to unknown surveys. 

[rymajn3]

Pretty sure this place was nothing but ****ing about the ending for MONTHS after the game came out.

Then EC happened and a lot of people just accepted that was it or gave up.

[Nerevar-as]

rymajn3 wrote...

Pretty sure this place was nothing but ****ing about the ending for MONTHS after the game came out.

Then EC happened and a lot of people just accepted that was it or gave up.

Right about the first part.

About the second.... not that very different as it is now. More people but as far as I can tell same opinion ratio.

[BirdsallSa]

Many an injustice has been done on this thread, and now it's time for the haters of the bsn to be proven wrong once and for all. Welcome back to reality!
https://twitter.com/...011276701118464