25 réponses à ce sujet

[krsboss]

As magic directly relates to spellpower and spellpower determines how effective your spells are. It seems like a good idea when building a mage to boost the magic stat more than the willpower stat; as there is an ever-ready supply of Lyrium potions to be consumed.

However; taking a Lyrium potions effectively wastes a 'round' of combat when instead you could be casting a spell.

There are also spells & talents that can increases your spellpower.

What do people think about how many attribute points should be put into willpower & magic when making a mage?!?

[soteria]

Just use blood magic; then you don't need lyrium potions OR willpower.



Another thing to consider about spellpower is that it reduces the chance for your spells to be resisted, which can make a difference that's hard to quantify when getting off that clynch sleep spell on a group of archers--and half of them resist because you split your points.

[krsboss]

! ...wouldn't you need to invest in constitution more to use Blood Magic??? I haven't really experimented with blood mages yet!

[dkjestrup]

Just put every point in magic. I personally don't care for putting points in con for Blood Magic. You'll only want to use Blood Wound most of the time, then switch back to normal magic. I think it's a novelty to be honest.



You never need to invest in Willpower. Potions are very plentiful, and also take very, very minimal time to use. It doesn't take up a round at all really. Cone of Cold might take 1 second to cast, a potion would take 1/4 of a second max.



Also, this isn't Oblivion. There are no spells where you won't have enough mana to cast even with minimum willpower. Magic increases damage/potency of your spells, increases your mental resistance, and if you're an arcane warrior it increases your damage with melee.



One thing I'll have to try one day will be an Arcane Warrior with 38 magic, max dex, running dual daggers with haste (and another mage with haste as well) with flaming and cold weapons using Affliction Hex. I can see mega DPS.

[soteria]

Ehm. If you don't mind chugging potions, blood magic isn't as useful. Proper use of blood magic eliminates the need for potions entirely, and you'll spend more time casting because the spells are more efficient and you won't have to stop and use a potion as often. I've played both ways, so I have a pretty good idea.



Potions take 1 second to use, just like everything else that doesn't have a cast time or long animation. Lyrium potions are only plentiful if you craft them, but otherwise, yes, willpower feels pretty useless.

[Psychoray]

If only the lyrium addiction system were implemented...



For me, a ratio of 1:2 (Willpower:Magic) works best. (AW/SH)

[jsachun]

Depends on whether you are using massive spells or just small ones. I think 60% Magic 40% Will or 70% Magic & 30% Will is a good ratio. Sometime with low will, you'll find that you won't have enough mana for certian spells, if you have sustained abilities on such as auras & shields.

Modifié par jsachun, 11 janvier 2010 - 08:25 .

[Sarevok Anchev]

Havin a Willpower of 20-30 should be enough, even as a NO-Bloodmage.

Mages have the highest +Stamina/Mana add per level = 6

So after lvl 10 you should be fine. Especially, because you will need to cast certain spells

less times, because they are more effective.



Its a real pain in the a55, when you have to heal your tank with 2-3 healing spells, because they dont get enough HP back!



+when you should take AW as spec, you can wear Wades Superior Medium armor, which will give you decent Armor, the Stamina bous+regen will work for Mana AND you get a negative Fatigue value.

[Cybercat999]

soteria wrote...

Ehm. If you don't mind chugging potions, blood magic isn't as useful.

Blood Magic has an amazing CC/damage spell called Blood Wound. Well worth taking just for that one imo.

As far as will goes, I never put a single point in it and my mages do more than fine.

[krsboss]

people who are saying willpower is useless, what kind of role are you using your mage for???



With so many spells, there are lots of options for different builds!



As I usually play with a party (2 x melee, 1 x archer, 1 x mage, with any available party members / PC to fill the roll), so usually take on a dehabilitator party roll. As such, haste, healing and party support take the foreground with dps a lesser concern. As such I find myself always running out of mana too quickly!



...what sort of spellpower would someone consider a good value? My original mage ended the campaign with an unmodified 64 spellpower & 436 mana (level 22).

[jsachun]

Well if your using small spells such as heal, you'd be better off investing in Magic than will.

Spells that does area damage or has large area effect requires massive amounts of mana and can't be used if you have 3 or 4 Sustained abilities on. I personally build my mages as damagers & feel that magic over 60 is a waste.

[RangerSG]

jsachun wrote...

Well if your using small spells such as heal, you'd be better off investing in Magic than will.
Spells that does area damage or has large area effect requires massive amounts of mana and can't be used if you have 3 or 4 Sustained abilities on. I personally build my mages as damagers & feel that magic over 60 is a waste.

Exactly, it's all a question of how many sustains you plan on keeping up, and if you want to be a Blood Mage. If you want to keep 3 sustains up (and that's easy to do, Weapon buff, Arcane Shield or Rock Armor, and Spell Wisp), then you're going to want to have around a 70%/30% magic-to-willpower ratio so you have enough mana to cast the large scale spells. If you're thorough in the Fade and get decent gear, your magic can easily be near 60 by end game even at that split. That's more than sufficient for your spells to land.

And sure, you can always make potions and chug. But if you want Storm of the Century, and you have to cast/chug/cast to get it off, then you're probably going to suffer with seeing most of your targets escaping the area of effect.

[Cybercat999]

krsboss wrote...

people who are saying willpower is useless, what kind of role are you using your mage for???

I prefer using mine for CC mainly. I dislike damage AoEs since I play with no pause and its sometimes very tricky to aim without hurting your party.
I play on NM too and I am more concerned about resistances than added damage, that is why I keep my spellpower as maxed as I can.

With BM and +will/regen from equipment I have absolutely no need for points in will to keep up my spell rotation in average fight.

Modifié par Cybercat999, 11 janvier 2010 - 10:22 .

[Carodej]

Cybercat999 wrote...

krsboss wrote...

people who are saying willpower is useless, what kind of role are you using your mage for???

I prefer using mine for CC mainly. I dislike damage AoEs since I play with no pause and its sometimes very tricky to aim without hurting your party.
I play on NM too and I am more concerned about resistances than added damage, that is why I keep my spellpower as maxed as I can.

With BM and +will/regen from equipment I have absolutely no need for points in will to keep up my spell rotation in average fight.

I have to agree with that.  Or another way to look at it is that someone putting all into magic each level gives you approximately 33% greater spell power at level 21.  (Really rough calc done assuming both start at 20 magic.  the mage that does only 2 points to will power will then have 62 magic while the one that puts all 3 points into magic will have 82 magic.  Figuring appoximately 8 more points from gear gives 60 spell power vs. 80.)  This means means signifigantly less spells resisted, more damage, etc.  Since the mage putting everything into magic is more effective, that mage should need to cast less spells to win the battle.  Faster battles mean less chance you or allies take damage, less need for sustainables, etc.

No matter how you look at it, there are trade offs in the game.  Personally I rarely run around with a bunch of sustainables on.  I find if often better to cast damage or CC spells to get your mana down, then turn on sustainables (assuming you actually even have a need to use a sustainable).  Based on number crunches I've seen others do (as well as a few I did myself), plus my own personal experience, it seems the most effective characters are ones that go as heavy as possible into whatever their main stat is.

Modifié par Carodej, 11 janvier 2010 - 01:39 .

[Mr_Raider]

SO how much magic is too much? My AW/BM is at level 16. and has anatural magic score of 60, and 30 willpower, and 20 con. Is there any further benefit in jacking up magic to 70?

[bas273]

Mr_Raider wrote...

SO how much magic is too much? My AW/BM is at level 16. and has anatural magic score of 60, and 30 willpower, and 20 con. Is there any further benefit in jacking up magic to 70?

Increased spellpower So your spells inflict more damage and are harder to resist.

[Lord Phoebus]

krsboss wrote...

people who are saying willpower is useless, what kind of role are you using your mage for???

I generally use my mage for CC and DPS. Glyph Explosion or Mass Paralysis followed by nuking.  Most of the time I need enough mana to cast 1 AoE disable, 2 hexes, 2 AoE damage and enough in reserve for a single target disable if necessary.  You don't need to put any points into will for that.  Whatever survives can be mopped up by companions or staff attacks. 

In Boss fights it's a bit different, I generally only need enough mana for single target disables, hexes and single target damage spells.  In this case the spell cooldowns become the limiting factor instead of mana.  What I mean by that is you don't get into the cast, cast, cast, drink, cast, wait for cooldowns, cast ... scenario, instead it's cast, cast, cast, cast, drink, finish waiting for cooldowns, cast.... 

To a large extent I find healing a waste of mana.  It's better to avoid damage by immobilizing your enemies than by healing it.  Then again my ideal party is two CC/DPS mages with two dual wield DPS rogues.  The general idea being to break your enemies before they break you instead of outlasting them.

[TheMufflon]

Wether you will want more than 20 willpower really comes down to one question:

Is Healing the main focus of your mage?

If so, you're gonna want a lot of willpower otherwise just get a lot of Magic.

Modifié par TheMufflon, 11 janvier 2010 - 03:29 .

[bas273]

TheMufflon wrote...

Wether you will want more than 20 willpower really comes down to one question:

Is Healing the main focus of your mage?

If so, you're gonna want a lot of willpower otherwise just get a lot of Magic.

Agreed. Wynne needs more Willpower than Morrigan.

I always use Morrigan for damage dealing (Mana Clash, VWB, Crushing Prison) so I raise her Magic stat (60+).

For Wynne I aim for 30-40 Willpower and Magic.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Remember not to start your sustainables (well, most of them) until after you've used up the mana they would otherwise reserve. That's like a free Willpower upgrade right there.

[Joseph Silver]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Remember not to start your sustainables (well, most of them) until after you've used up the mana they would otherwise reserve. That's like a free Willpower upgrade right there.

I play with a mod that fixes this exploit.  With this mod, sustained spells are no longer free, and now cost the same amount of mana to cast as their upkeep cost.  I find that this change makes the game more challenging for my Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage since I actually have to decide on whether to buff or nuke/disable in combat.

[emrys2.0]

i just love how the mage's are all different, i go with shape-shifting all the way

[krsboss]

personally I find that having haste up 100% of the time is mandatory...afterall, why walk around slow when you can be racing around faster...it's like opting to walk (\\) rather than run!



However, this is also why I like more of an investment in willpower as casting with haste really chews up mana!

[Mr_Raider]

Spelward Amulet or Lifedrinker Amulet?

[Mr_Raider]

 

Modifié par Mr_Raider, 12 janvier 2010 - 02:24 .