178 réponses à ce sujet

[kheldorin]

Considering that all the new characters have pretty unique gameplay except for maybe the fembot, I don't think I would have preferred a new Salarian kit over any of them. Besides the way a Salarian approaches combat is pretty well-covered with the existing Salarian kits and I'd much prefer them to explore how the other factions fight.

[shnig_1]

I dont even care about salarians anyway, but yea it sucks there arent any new ones. Whatevs, the other characters are money

[ShinTheZero]

Cyonan wrote...
The reason is because they could not possibly have added everything that they wanted to add, or that we wanted them to add. Something had to be chosen to not get added.

Salarians were among them.

There was no reason not to add Salarians beyond that, but you know what?

There was also no reason not to add a Human Merc, female Turian, Geth Prime, EDI-bot, Krogan melee centric character, or Leviathan controlled thrall.

There was also no reason not to add another female Quarian or ex-Cerberus character.

and everything I've mentioned in this post has been something that has been asked for. My whole point is that while there may not have been a reason not to add Salarians, there was no reason that they were more special than any other request from other people(feel free to tell me about how they only have 2 kits, though =P).

If you want this whole discussion to get somewhere, you should tell me why your request should have been any more special than my request(it doesn't really matter what I asked for), or anybody else's request. I already pointed out why the lore angle is a poor argument.

I disagree for several reasons.
Salarian Kits do have huge potential for various class combination. The STG, the Military arm of the Salarians, are pretty much the secret Service, we see on movies and novels (most famous example: James Bond).
Thus, they could have given the Salarians pretty much everything tech-related (example: everything, the Talon Mercenary represents). Don't you think, a Salarian with 3 proper pets would be quite tempting to play as? That would be quite special, I would say.

Compared to an additional human, a Salarian would at least give more race variety (satisfying everybody's Needs). We have already 16 human kit (6 regular, 6 N7, 2 Ex-Cerberus, 1 promotional). And Salarian have just 2 ... and that is by far the fewest in the whole game. I mean, add fuel for something, which is burning high and mighty, while not feeding a weak flame?

Also, Salarians have existed since Day 1. Before Geth, Batarians, Vorcha and Volus, which have already 4 kits (exception: Vorcha has 3). And especially Volus got all of it's characters through Retaliation. This is somewhat awkard, as Retaliation has added for nearly every race a new character. Again, big exception are Salarians.

Yes, Salarians requests are more Special than more other races. They might not be that much suprising compared to the EDI robots and Collectors; but they are still a  high-demanded race, which gives enough potential and playability for both Player and developer.

[d_nought]

kheldorin wrote...

Considering that all the new characters have pretty unique gameplay except for maybe the fembot, I don't think I would have preferred a new Salarian kit over any of them. Besides the way a Salarian approaches combat is pretty well-covered with the existing Salarian kits and I'd much prefer them to explore how the other factions fight.

Talon could just as easily be a Salarian. James Bond gadgety type.

[Rodia Driftwood]

I always wanted a Salarian STG kit.

[kheldorin]

ShinTheZero wrote...

Cyonan wrote...
The reason is because they could not possibly have added everything that they wanted to add, or that we wanted them to add. Something had to be chosen to not get added.

Salarians were among them.

There was no reason not to add Salarians beyond that, but you know what?

There was also no reason not to add a Human Merc, female Turian, Geth Prime, EDI-bot, Krogan melee centric character, or Leviathan controlled thrall.

There was also no reason not to add another female Quarian or ex-Cerberus character.

and everything I've mentioned in this post has been something that has been asked for. My whole point is that while there may not have been a reason not to add Salarians, there was no reason that they were more special than any other request from other people(feel free to tell me about how they only have 2 kits, though =P).

If you want this whole discussion to get somewhere, you should tell me why your request should have been any more special than my request(it doesn't really matter what I asked for), or anybody else's request. I already pointed out why the lore angle is a poor argument.

I disagree for several reasons.
Salarian Kits do have huge potential for various class combination. The STG, the Military arm of the Salarians, are pretty much the secret Service, we see on movies and novels (most famous example: James Bond).
Thus, they could have given the Salarians pretty much everything tech-related (example: everything, the Talon Mercenary represents). Don't you think, a Salarian with 3 proper pets would be quite tempting to play as? That would be quite special, I would say.

Compared to an additional human, a Salarian would at least give more race variety (satisfying everybody's Needs). We have already 16 human kit (6 regular, 6 N7, 2 Ex-Cerberus, 1 promotional). And Salarian have just 2 ... and that is by far the fewest in the whole game. I mean, add fuel for something, which is burning high and mighty, while not feeding a weak flame?

Also, Salarians have existed since Day 1. Before Geth, Batarians, Vorcha and Volus, which have already 4 kits (exception: Vorcha has 3). And especially Volus got all of it's characters through Retaliation. This is somewhat awkard, as Retaliation has added for nearly every race a new character. Again, big exception are Salarians.

Yes, Salarians requests are more Special than more other races. They might not be that much suprising compared to the EDI robots and Collectors; but they are still a  high-demanded race, which gives enough potential and playability for both Player and developer.

A pet kit that plays like Tali? That'd be boring as hell. And I'm not sure the Talon mercenary skills actually fits a Salarian. Besides without that there's no kit that represents the forces from Omega. What's more important is gameplay variety instead of race variety. A lot of these new kits are melee oriented or grenade oriented which really balances out the gameplay that is currently available. 

[Cyonan]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

They have only two kits.

And the reason why Salarians should have gotten some more love is because:

16 Human kits (plus 6 opposite sex vanilla kits)
07 Turian kits
05 Krogan kits
05 Asari kits
05 Geth kits
05 Quarian kits
04 Volus kits
04 Batarian kits
03 Vorcha kits
03 Drell kits
01 Collector-Thrall kit

02 Salarian kits

We have more trained Lab-Vorcha than Salarians.

I think that inequality in race diversity does not only speak for more Slarian, but for more everything but Human kits, with the little sidenote that unlike Collector-Thralls, Vorcha and Drell the Salarians have (supposedly) been a major actor in the ME universe ever since the start of the series

At this point, it probably shouldn't be a surprise that Humans are the most represented species =P

So the Salarians only have 2 kits. The Collector Thralls have 1 now. Depending on where you stand on the whole Prothean thing, they have 0. All 3 have been asked for.

A far more debated topic on the BSN has been the imbalance between the number of female and male characters. They could have added 6 female characters and it still would have not been balanced out.

So which of these should have taken priority? Why should they have taken priority?

ShinTheZero wrote...

I disagree for several reasons.
Salarian Kits do have huge potential for various class combination. The STG, the Military arm of the Salarians, are pretty much the secret Service, we see on movies and novels (most famous example: James Bond).
Thus, they could have given the Salarians pretty much everything tech-related (example: everything, the Talon Mercenary represents). Don't you think, a Salarian with 3 proper pets would be quite tempting to play as? That would be quite special, I would say.

Compared to an additional human, a Salarian would at least give more race variety (satisfying everybody's Needs). We have already 16 human kit (6 regular, 6 N7, 2 Ex-Cerberus, 1 promotional). And Salarian have just 2 ... and that is by far the fewest in the whole game. I mean, add fuel for something, which is burning high and mighty, while not feeding a weak flame?

Also, Salarians have existed since Day 1. Before Geth, Batarians, Vorcha and Volus, which have already 4 kits (exception: Vorcha has 3). And especially Volus got all of it's characters through Retaliation. This is somewhat awkard, as Retaliation has added for nearly every race a new character. Again, big exception are Salarians.

Yes, Salarians requests are more Special than more other races. They might not be that much suprising compared to the EDI robots and Collectors; but they are still a high-demanded race, which gives enough potential and playability for both Player and developer.

I'm not saying that Salarians don't have potential. Every species has huge potential for class combinations.

What I am saying is that the Salarians aren't really any different from any other request that's feasible, except that they've been around since vanilla.

[ntrisley]

What should have taken priority was a batch of new Uncommon characters, both male+female humans utilizing unique skins and given middle of the road abilities.

Couple that with more Salarians and you have a DLC pack that would have been better than this uninspired fizzle of a "final" DLC.

[ShinTheZero]

Talon Mercenary = He can be Salarian, just saying.
And the Talon has a lot of "hidden" weapons and very unorthodox weapons, which fits the style of a hitman.

And the pet kit ... we have a certain Volus with 2 pets and tech armor,

[ZiRK]

spam, nuke it

[Ziegrif]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Mr SeVerS wrote...

spam, nuke it

Salarians first

Nuke the salarians?
No. :<

[kheldorin]

ShinTheZero wrote...

Talon Mercenary = He can be Salarian, just saying.
And the Talon has a lot of "hidden" weapons and very unorthodox weapons, which fits the style of a hitman.

And the pet kit ... we have a certain Volus with 2 pets and tech armor,

Yeah and you want more of the same style? It's boring gameplay.

When you take into account the Bloodpack weapons, it's clear that Bioware intended to add in more Omega influence into the game. The talon mercenary is a good way to include that. To me, even though he's human, he's more unique than a Salarian because he was an unrepresented faction in the Mass Effect world. So I wouldn't switch him with a Salarian. 

[Malanek]

Totally. I'm surprised Bioware didn't add a Salarian enemy faction just so they could have fun in the office killing them
/sarcasm

I'm also gutted there are no Salarians. Don't see the need to take a swipe at the Collector though, after all there are even less of them than there are Salarians. Overall I am excited.

Modifié par Malanek999, 25 février 2013 - 08:41 .

[Versus Omnibus]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Mr SeVerS wrote...

spam, nuke it

Salarians first

Problematic.

[ShinTheZero]

Cyonan wrote...

ShinTheZero wrote...

I disagree for several reasons.
Salarian Kits do have huge potential for various class combination. The STG, the Military arm of the Salarians, are pretty much the secret Service, we see on movies and novels (most famous example: James Bond).
Thus, they could have given the Salarians pretty much everything tech-related (example: everything, the Talon Mercenary represents). Don't you think, a Salarian with 3 proper pets would be quite tempting to play as? That would be quite special, I would say.

Compared to an additional human, a Salarian would at least give more race variety (satisfying everybody's Needs). We have already 16 human kit (6 regular, 6 N7, 2 Ex-Cerberus, 1 promotional). And Salarian have just 2 ... and that is by far the fewest in the whole game. I mean, add fuel for something, which is burning high and mighty, while not feeding a weak flame?

Also, Salarians have existed since Day 1. Before Geth, Batarians, Vorcha and Volus, which have already 4 kits (exception: Vorcha has 3). And especially Volus got all of it's characters through Retaliation. This is somewhat awkard, as Retaliation has added for nearly every race a new character. Again, big exception are Salarians.

Yes, Salarians requests are more Special than more other races. They might not be that much suprising compared to the EDI robots and Collectors; but they are still a high-demanded race, which gives enough potential and playability for both Player and developer.

I'm not saying that Salarians don't have potential. Every species has huge potential for class combinations.

What I am saying is that the Salarians aren't really any different from any other request that's feasible, except that they've been around since vanilla.

Other races now lack any further reasons, to get more. Especially humans.
Humans: 22. I may silence and will you get, what I mean.
Asari: 5 Biotics. Pretty much everything covered, what a Biotic race can have.
Turian: 6. Way enough, though the Saboteur is a poor cheat for a new character (hey, found another one to replace).
Krogan: 5. We have even Shamans, that says a lot.
Quarians: 5. The only race with Humans, who have male and female parts. They even managed to give them different powers.
Geth: 4. Basic Trooper, Hunter, Engineer and the Prime itself. Pretty much perfect.
Batarians: 4. I do not understand, why we have so many biotics there.
Vorcha: 3. Another race, which is underpresented. They have great potential for a Vanguard and even an Infiltrator, because of their nature.
Drell: 3. There are no really more Options than that. Soldiers and Sentinels do not fit Drells.

Now, main rant:
Volus: 4(!!!). Now this is getting somewhat ridicilous. A merchant race has more than a council race, which are trained Special Ops. Yes, the Adept and the Engineer are great supports and they do fit nicely to the Volus Image ... but after that, the rest is ridicilious. Especially for merchants, who even hire Turians to protect themselves.

Why not taking the very obvious way to introduce more Salarians? It is not even hard to do that without causing Major rants about the EDI-Model and the awakened collectors. Salarians have still the Soldier and Sentinel branch to grow and it is more plausible than other further inventions, don't you think?

[ShinTheZero]

kheldorin wrote...

ShinTheZero wrote...

Talon Mercenary = He can be Salarian, just saying.
And the Talon has a lot of "hidden" weapons and very unorthodox weapons, which fits the style of a hitman.

And the pet kit ... we have a certain Volus with 2 pets and tech armor,

Yeah and you want more of the same style? It's boring gameplay.

When you take into account the Bloodpack weapons, it's clear that Bioware intended to add in more Omega influence into the game. The talon mercenary is a good way to include that. To me, even though he's human, he's more unique than a Salarian because he was an unrepresented faction in the Mass Effect world. So I wouldn't switch him with a Salarian. 

You don't get it, do you?
Just replace the race with Salarian, because mercenaries include Salarians mercenaries. And there, they do not even have to Change the theme of Omega. Ever played ME2? Eclipse in Omega is pretty much a Salarian based faction and there are further more (Ish for example).
To Combine a underpresented faction (mercenaries) with a underpresented race (Salarians) is very easy to do.

[Riot Inducer]

kheldorin wrote...

ShinTheZero wrote...

Talon Mercenary = He can be Salarian, just saying.
And the Talon has a lot of "hidden" weapons and very unorthodox weapons, which fits the style of a hitman.

And the pet kit ... we have a certain Volus with 2 pets and tech armor,

Yeah and you want more of the same style? It's boring gameplay.

When you take into account the Bloodpack weapons, it's clear that Bioware intended to add in more Omega influence into the game. The talon mercenary is a good way to include that. To me, even though he's human, he's more unique than a Salarian because he was an unrepresented faction in the Mass Effect world. So I wouldn't switch him with a Salarian.

What people are saying is that you could keep the talon exactly the same but just replace his zaeed model with a Salarian and everyone would've been happy. As cool as the Zaeed armor is I'm pretty sure no one ever asked to have a character with his armor. There were plenty of salarian mercs on Omega, he could've easily satisfied several requests by just changing his model.

Mind you I'm not complaining about the talon specifically, the Zaeed armor is quite nice but I can't help but feel rather shorted for not having gotten a single new salarian kit since launch.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

So not only do we get (in my very personal opinion right here) subpar writing when it concerns the Salarians in ME3 and they are arguably the one species with the least screentime ever in the entire ME series, but after a year+ of MP with a community asking and asking and asking for more Salarian kits for MP, we finally got the very definite ultimate answer to our pleas:

Batarians says hi.

[jaylovesash]

I think it just goes to prove that you cant please everybody. Its a free DLC for godsakes. Yes it could have been broader but its not. Just deal with it and move on

[GroverA125]

Proposal: Upon the release of the next game, we create a "hit the **** fan" list, in which we add things we would want to see in as DLC and things we really don't want to see in multiplayer. Then at least Bioware will know what we want/don't want and should they not fufill them/fufill the ones we don't want by the time they are finished with their game, then the **** hits the fan. Simple system which shows what we want and what we don't.

For example, in ME4 I would very much like to see a balanced racial class count for certain archetypes (eg. Council, major, minor, cameo) and none to exceed this limit, and I would very much NOT like to see vast indiversity of weapons (weapons that function identically but with a re-skin to make them look different) so I would put them onto a list and culminate that information with that of many others, and create a survey-esque system that takes the culmination of each decision and rounds them into one list showing priority.

Because I'm willing to go THAT far to give a sharp indication to devs of what the fans want and what the fans will chase you down and shove boots into certain orifices over.