As far as I understood, by the way, everything can WALK through that hex shield.
Dear Biower, Geth Jugg OP, nerf plz
Débuté par
Dorick
, févr. 25 2013 07:38
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#102
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:25
Caldari Ghost
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i try not to argue based on "fundamentals". I think you mean presuppositions. no critical correcting there.
#103
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:26
NoSkilledPlayer
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As Jack would say: F**ck You!
#104
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:28
Caldari Ghost
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[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
why don't you start with the first one.
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]
Am I missing anything?
Now all I have to do is imagine a character that cant dodge or run, and has the same hitbox as a large krogan.
Done.
Geth Jugg OP, nerf plz.
[/quote]
[/quote]You didnt say anything here.
Also, I went back and read your posts. We just disagree. I think the higher difficulties should require skill to win, and if a player cant do that, then they should play a lower difficulty. Hence, requesting of nerfs.
If its subjective, then your opinion isn't any better than mine. And you can lay down your reasoning as to why the Geth Jugg isnt OP, which it clearly is, and I will counter. But if your whole argument is that there SHOULD be an ez kit for players, then we just fundamentally disagree.
[/quote]
well, OK, let me start with a simple observation: I saw the juggernaut die a few times against cerberus gold.
[/quote]That's bc the devs were giving a demonstration, and were explaining characters as they played. Very, very different from someone who enters a game to win. Bad argument.
[/quote]
not just eric. and they are already somewhat accustomed to each kits' skillset. Also, why weren't his OP skills enough to make cerberus gold easy mode?
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
why don't you start with the first one.
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]
Am I missing anything?
Now all I have to do is imagine a character that cant dodge or run, and has the same hitbox as a large krogan.
Done.
Geth Jugg OP, nerf plz.
[/quote]
[/quote]You didnt say anything here.
Also, I went back and read your posts. We just disagree. I think the higher difficulties should require skill to win, and if a player cant do that, then they should play a lower difficulty. Hence, requesting of nerfs.
If its subjective, then your opinion isn't any better than mine. And you can lay down your reasoning as to why the Geth Jugg isnt OP, which it clearly is, and I will counter. But if your whole argument is that there SHOULD be an ez kit for players, then we just fundamentally disagree.
[/quote]
well, OK, let me start with a simple observation: I saw the juggernaut die a few times against cerberus gold.
[/quote]That's bc the devs were giving a demonstration, and were explaining characters as they played. Very, very different from someone who enters a game to win. Bad argument.
[/quote]
not just eric. and they are already somewhat accustomed to each kits' skillset. Also, why weren't his OP skills enough to make cerberus gold easy mode?
#105
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:28
Dorick
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You can also spec the shield to do damage if they do. Big deal. If you can put up a wall that blocks incoming fire and damages enemies as the walk through, while you walk to cover, then I dont see the problem here.LoonySpectre wrote...
As far as I understood, by the way, everything can WALK through that hex shield.
#106
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:28
udinbak4
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Juggernaut will have difficulties extracting on platinum. Gold as well.
2min left, the whole team is at the other side of the map. Poor Jugg cannot run, and will get left behind.
2min left, the whole team is at the other side of the map. Poor Jugg cannot run, and will get left behind.
#108
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:30
Beeno4Life
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0/10
Would not bang. Would not call back.
Would not bang. Would not call back.
#109
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:32
Dorick
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[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
why don't you start with the first one.
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]
Am I missing anything?
Now all I have to do is imagine a character that cant dodge or run, and has the same hitbox as a large krogan.
Done.
Geth Jugg OP, nerf plz.
[/quote]
[/quote]You didnt say anything here.
Also, I went back and read your posts. We just disagree. I think the higher difficulties should require skill to win, and if a player cant do that, then they should play a lower difficulty. Hence, requesting of nerfs.
If its subjective, then your opinion isn't any better than mine. And you can lay down your reasoning as to why the Geth Jugg isnt OP, which it clearly is, and I will counter. But if your whole argument is that there SHOULD be an ez kit for players, then we just fundamentally disagree.
[/quote]
well, OK, let me start with a simple observation: I saw the juggernaut die a few times against cerberus gold.
[/quote]That's bc the devs were giving a demonstration, and were explaining characters as they played. Very, very different from someone who enters a game to win. Bad argument.
[/quote]
not just eric. and they are already somewhat accustomed to each kits' skillset. Also, why weren't his OP skills enough to make cerberus gold easy mode?
[/quote]This is such a dumb argument. You don't decide how good a character is during a live demonstration of his powers. All you have to do is look at the jugg in comparison to the other available kits. Its so obvious this kit is OP, but people dont want a nerf so they are in denial.
-stagger resistance
-fitness BASE 1000+2000
-Heavy melee returns shields
-makes his own cover
-heal turret can be spammed, just like engi.
-SYNC KILL IMMUNITY!!
-AoE light melee
So don't give me some subjective crap based on a demonstration. This kit is clearly OP. The sync kill immunity alone credits a lot to that.
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
why don't you start with the first one.
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]
Am I missing anything?
Now all I have to do is imagine a character that cant dodge or run, and has the same hitbox as a large krogan.
Done.
Geth Jugg OP, nerf plz.
[/quote]
[/quote]You didnt say anything here.
Also, I went back and read your posts. We just disagree. I think the higher difficulties should require skill to win, and if a player cant do that, then they should play a lower difficulty. Hence, requesting of nerfs.
If its subjective, then your opinion isn't any better than mine. And you can lay down your reasoning as to why the Geth Jugg isnt OP, which it clearly is, and I will counter. But if your whole argument is that there SHOULD be an ez kit for players, then we just fundamentally disagree.
[/quote]
well, OK, let me start with a simple observation: I saw the juggernaut die a few times against cerberus gold.
[/quote]That's bc the devs were giving a demonstration, and were explaining characters as they played. Very, very different from someone who enters a game to win. Bad argument.
[/quote]
not just eric. and they are already somewhat accustomed to each kits' skillset. Also, why weren't his OP skills enough to make cerberus gold easy mode?
[/quote]This is such a dumb argument. You don't decide how good a character is during a live demonstration of his powers. All you have to do is look at the jugg in comparison to the other available kits. Its so obvious this kit is OP, but people dont want a nerf so they are in denial.
-stagger resistance
-fitness BASE 1000+2000
-Heavy melee returns shields
-makes his own cover
-heal turret can be spammed, just like engi.
-SYNC KILL IMMUNITY!!
-AoE light melee
So don't give me some subjective crap based on a demonstration. This kit is clearly OP. The sync kill immunity alone credits a lot to that.
#110
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:33
JerZey CJ
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Or, you know, people will play it because its fun?
#111
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:33
Dorick
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Just stay within walking distance of the extraction, keep spamming turret. Dont stop moving. Shoot scorpion mines at your feet.udinbak4 wrote...
Juggernaut will have difficulties extracting on platinum. Gold as well.
2min left, the whole team is at the other side of the map. Poor Jugg cannot run, and will get left behind.
done.
Modifié par Dorick, 25 février 2013 - 08:34 .
#112
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:34
Caldari Ghost
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as far as "playing to win" goes...... it's coop, some like role-playing (possible on gold, likely platinum)
i am between casual and competitive in MP, depending on my mood.
jugernaut gives me a new way to play, think of entirely new strategies.
i am between casual and competitive in MP, depending on my mood.
jugernaut gives me a new way to play, think of entirely new strategies.
#113
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:35
Dorick
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new strategies and kits are fine. Ez mode is not.Caldari Ghost wrote...
as far as "playing to win" goes...... it's coop, some like role-playing (possible on gold, likely platinum)
i am between casual and competitive in MP, depending on my mood.
jugernaut gives me a new way to play, think of entirely new strategies.
#114
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:36
IllusiveManJr
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Still only 193 profile views OP, you're not a celebrity yet.
#115
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:39
Toxic Waste
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I call for stripping all characters of their powers and give them all slingshots instead.
The dang DLC has not even come out yet and there is already a demand to have things nerfed? Go play pacman.
The dang DLC has not even come out yet and there is already a demand to have things nerfed? Go play pacman.
#116
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:39
Zero132132
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Listen to yourself! You're indoctrinated!
Seriously, though, it sounds like he has **** for offensive capabilities. The other stuff won't compensate for that to the extent that you probably think it will.
Seriously, though, it sounds like he has **** for offensive capabilities. The other stuff won't compensate for that to the extent that you probably think it will.
#117
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:41
CidEquinox
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Dorick wrote...
new strategies and kits are fine. Ez mode is not.Caldari Ghost wrote...
as far as "playing to win" goes...... it's coop, some like role-playing (possible on gold, likely platinum)
i am between casual and competitive in MP, depending on my mood.
jugernaut gives me a new way to play, think of entirely new strategies.
i actually prefer EZ mode as opposed to using strategies. All I really want is to unlock all my weapons and mods really.
#118
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:43
Caldari Ghost
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[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
why don't you start with the first one.
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]
Am I missing anything?
Now all I have to do is imagine a character that cant dodge or run, and has the same hitbox as a large krogan.
Done.
Geth Jugg OP, nerf plz.
[/quote]
[/quote]You didnt say anything here.
Also, I went back and read your posts. We just disagree. I think the higher difficulties should require skill to win, and if a player cant do that, then they should play a lower difficulty. Hence, requesting of nerfs.
If its subjective, then your opinion isn't any better than mine. And you can lay down your reasoning as to why the Geth Jugg isnt OP, which it clearly is, and I will counter. But if your whole argument is that there SHOULD be an ez kit for players, then we just fundamentally disagree.
[/quote]
well, OK, let me start with a simple observation: I saw the juggernaut die a few times against cerberus gold.
[/quote]That's bc the devs were giving a demonstration, and were explaining characters as they played. Very, very different from someone who enters a game to win. Bad argument.
[/quote]
not just eric. and they are already somewhat accustomed to each kits' skillset. Also, why weren't his OP skills enough to make cerberus gold easy mode?
[/quote]This is such a dumb argument. You don't decide how good a character is during a live demonstration of his powers. All you have to do is look at the jugg in comparison to the other available kits. Its so obvious this kit is OP, but people dont want a nerf so they are in denial.
-stagger resistance
-fitness BASE 1000+2000
-Heavy melee returns shields
-makes his own cover
-heal turret can be spammed, just like engi.
-SYNC KILL IMMUNITY!!
-AoE light melee
So don't give me some subjective crap based on a demonstration. This kit is clearly OP. The sync kill immunity alone credits a lot to that.
[/quote]
any level of fitness is pathetic on gold. he is almost entirely geared toward defense. the only way for him to be useful to a team is for the team to stick with him, concentrating the entire enemie's damage in one spot, otherwise he can only hold out for so long
I'll admit he's ok, (sync kill immunity: he doesn't move very fast) but that's it.
actually, wait! he might even be fun to play! out in the open, imagine that?
please note that his cover does not surround him; he is too slow to kite enemies thinly enough to use that cover effectively if he is the last one alive, he cannot vault over cover, further increasing the amount of time spent in the open.......
who cares whether they were concentrating or not? did you see how fast his shields and health dropped?
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]Caldari Ghost wrote...
why don't you start with the first one.
[quote]Dorick wrote...
[quote]
Am I missing anything?
Now all I have to do is imagine a character that cant dodge or run, and has the same hitbox as a large krogan.
Done.
Geth Jugg OP, nerf plz.
[/quote]
[/quote]You didnt say anything here.
Also, I went back and read your posts. We just disagree. I think the higher difficulties should require skill to win, and if a player cant do that, then they should play a lower difficulty. Hence, requesting of nerfs.
If its subjective, then your opinion isn't any better than mine. And you can lay down your reasoning as to why the Geth Jugg isnt OP, which it clearly is, and I will counter. But if your whole argument is that there SHOULD be an ez kit for players, then we just fundamentally disagree.
[/quote]
well, OK, let me start with a simple observation: I saw the juggernaut die a few times against cerberus gold.
[/quote]That's bc the devs were giving a demonstration, and were explaining characters as they played. Very, very different from someone who enters a game to win. Bad argument.
[/quote]
not just eric. and they are already somewhat accustomed to each kits' skillset. Also, why weren't his OP skills enough to make cerberus gold easy mode?
[/quote]This is such a dumb argument. You don't decide how good a character is during a live demonstration of his powers. All you have to do is look at the jugg in comparison to the other available kits. Its so obvious this kit is OP, but people dont want a nerf so they are in denial.
-stagger resistance
-fitness BASE 1000+2000
-Heavy melee returns shields
-makes his own cover
-heal turret can be spammed, just like engi.
-SYNC KILL IMMUNITY!!
-AoE light melee
So don't give me some subjective crap based on a demonstration. This kit is clearly OP. The sync kill immunity alone credits a lot to that.
[/quote]
any level of fitness is pathetic on gold. he is almost entirely geared toward defense. the only way for him to be useful to a team is for the team to stick with him, concentrating the entire enemie's damage in one spot, otherwise he can only hold out for so long
I'll admit he's ok, (sync kill immunity: he doesn't move very fast) but that's it.
actually, wait! he might even be fun to play! out in the open, imagine that?
please note that his cover does not surround him; he is too slow to kite enemies thinly enough to use that cover effectively if he is the last one alive, he cannot vault over cover, further increasing the amount of time spent in the open.......
who cares whether they were concentrating or not? did you see how fast his shields and health dropped?
#119
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:43
Lathlaer
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1. It will be extremely difficult to solo with this guy due to his lack of mobility
2. If played with a team it will be difficult to make the top score unless you want to be a sitting duck literally in the centre of the map. And no amount of shields will help you against the firepower the enemies sport on gold+. True, you can spamm geth turret, but when you are spamming it, you aren't killing anything. Bottom line: you are just standing and wasting air (well, not exactly since it's a geth but you know what I mean).
3. Some enemies cannot be lifted and drained as I understand: dragoons probably laugh at this because they are armored
4. Regarding your "stand next to LZ tactics": I imagine you will hasten to demonstrate how easy it is to do it in a few days?
5. Sync kill immunity is nice but only against banshee. Phantoms, Brutes, Atlases, Praetorians and Scions have much better and more efficient ways to kill you. Most of them laugh at your sync kill immunity and at your shields.
2. If played with a team it will be difficult to make the top score unless you want to be a sitting duck literally in the centre of the map. And no amount of shields will help you against the firepower the enemies sport on gold+. True, you can spamm geth turret, but when you are spamming it, you aren't killing anything. Bottom line: you are just standing and wasting air (well, not exactly since it's a geth but you know what I mean).
3. Some enemies cannot be lifted and drained as I understand: dragoons probably laugh at this because they are armored
4. Regarding your "stand next to LZ tactics": I imagine you will hasten to demonstrate how easy it is to do it in a few days?
5. Sync kill immunity is nice but only against banshee. Phantoms, Brutes, Atlases, Praetorians and Scions have much better and more efficient ways to kill you. Most of them laugh at your sync kill immunity and at your shields.
Modifié par Lathlaer, 25 février 2013 - 08:45 .
#120
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:43
Dorick
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Absolutely wrong, if anything, he has heightened offense bc he doesnt have to spend time avoiding sync kills, and can tank so much that he can keep up his DPS. Survivability=DPSZero132132 wrote...
Listen to yourself! You're indoctrinated!
Seriously, though, it sounds like he has **** for offensive capabilities. The other stuff won't compensate for that to the extent that you probably think it will.
He doesnt receive a nerf to his damage output from what I could tell.
#121
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:45
Caldari Ghost
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yeah, I'm not happy about the quality of my arguments. Maybe you'll convince me. But you're not quite there yet........
edit: you're not convincing me or anybody here yet. keep trying.
edit: you're not convincing me or anybody here yet. keep trying.
Modifié par Caldari Ghost, 25 février 2013 - 08:46 .
#122
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:45
LGear
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2000 shields and 1000 health sounds great, until you realize that people regularly run much better values on Gold and Platinum with beefy Krogan/Destroyer builds (Many run upwards of 3000+ shields with Cyclonic Modulators and other buffs), and they still get downed regularly by heavy artillery like Scions and Ravagers if caught out in the open. Most of the time, said kits rely on mobility rather than health to get through Gold and Platinum matches, something the Juggernaut doesn't have.
Also, while the Juggernaut can replenish its shields using the Heavy Melee, it regenerates its shields slowly meaning that sufficient DPS can overwhelm the regeneration, a fact we see in the livestream when the Juggernaut gets downed by enemy fire. Any time the Juggernaut is replenishing its shields is time it's spending slowly torturing just one enemy, and not dealing damage to real threats on the field.
The Hex Shield is good, but melee enemies will simply ignore it, it only covers one direction, you can only deploy one at a time, and it can be broken by sufficient firepower, which enemies in Platinum and Gold will have in spades. If you're surrounded by enemies on all sides, which does happen often at higher difficulties, the Hex Shield is a temporary relief, not an overpowered defense.
Finally, the Geth Turret only replenishes a relatively small amount of shields compared to the Juggernaut's massive shield pool, and you can't rely on the Geth Turret to replenish your shields all the time especially in situations where you need to be mobile like with Delivery objectives.
Combined with the fact that it's slow moving, unable to dodge, run and take cover, and the Geth Juggernaut will require a bit of skill to use, mostly in where to best position your defensive abilities and making sure you take care of those heavy hitters before they can get to you. And as we've seen, the Juggernaut has no AoE attacks, meaning that he can get overwhelmed by a group of enemy mobs if you're not careful.
The Juggernaut is a powerhouse, but it looks to have its own set of weaknesses to offset its strengths, like every other kit should.
Also, while the Juggernaut can replenish its shields using the Heavy Melee, it regenerates its shields slowly meaning that sufficient DPS can overwhelm the regeneration, a fact we see in the livestream when the Juggernaut gets downed by enemy fire. Any time the Juggernaut is replenishing its shields is time it's spending slowly torturing just one enemy, and not dealing damage to real threats on the field.
The Hex Shield is good, but melee enemies will simply ignore it, it only covers one direction, you can only deploy one at a time, and it can be broken by sufficient firepower, which enemies in Platinum and Gold will have in spades. If you're surrounded by enemies on all sides, which does happen often at higher difficulties, the Hex Shield is a temporary relief, not an overpowered defense.
Finally, the Geth Turret only replenishes a relatively small amount of shields compared to the Juggernaut's massive shield pool, and you can't rely on the Geth Turret to replenish your shields all the time especially in situations where you need to be mobile like with Delivery objectives.
Combined with the fact that it's slow moving, unable to dodge, run and take cover, and the Geth Juggernaut will require a bit of skill to use, mostly in where to best position your defensive abilities and making sure you take care of those heavy hitters before they can get to you. And as we've seen, the Juggernaut has no AoE attacks, meaning that he can get overwhelmed by a group of enemy mobs if you're not careful.
The Juggernaut is a powerhouse, but it looks to have its own set of weaknesses to offset its strengths, like every other kit should.
Modifié par LGear, 25 février 2013 - 08:50 .
#123
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:46
Dorick
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Absolutely, i have a game recorder and will probably play around with it a bit when I'm not working on my college classes/work.Lathlaer wrote...
1. It will be extremely difficult to solo with this guy due to his lack of mobility
2. If played with a team it will be difficult to make the top score unless you want to be a sitting duck literally in the centre of the map. And no amount of shields will help you against the firepower the enemies sport on gold+. True, you can spamm geth turret, but when you are spamming it, you aren't killing anything. Bottom line: you are just standing and wasting air (well, not exactly since it's a geth but you know what I mean).
3. Some enemies cannot be lifted and drained as I understand: dragoons probably laugh at this because they are armored
4. Regarding your "stand next to LZ tactics": I imagine you will hasten to demonstrate how easy it is to do it in a few days?
1: wrong
2: wrong edit: actually, this one could be true if your teammates are fairly skilled.
3: doesnt matter
4: EZ
Modifié par Dorick, 25 février 2013 - 08:46 .
#124
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:46
Wolf610
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Zero132132 wrote...
Listen to yourself! You're indoctrinated!
Seriously, though, it sounds like he has **** for offensive capabilities. The other stuff won't compensate for that to the extent that you probably think it will.
Yeah, he just argued my no crowd control point by telling me to bring a scorpion into Platinum, pretty sure he doesn't know what he's talking about or he's trolling.
#125
Posté 25 février 2013 - 08:46
DoingItRight
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Dorick wrote...
Please nerf day one. Between a self heal turret, self heal melee, 1000 health, 2000 shields, stagger resistance, and sync kill immunity, I dont see how anyone who knows anything about this game doesnt already suspect this character is EZ-noob-kid-crutch-class-mode.
And after you have nerfed him once, consider a second nerf for good measure. Sync kill immunity? LAWL!
Every single match I play I'm gonna see a Geth Jugg from here on out, bc bad players always look for the path of least resistance, and the online community is filled with players who should be in silver, not platinum.
Plz NERF!
let's have safe sex...
so why don't you go **** yourself
