244 réponses à ce sujet

[clarkusdarkus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

clarkusdarkus wrote...
 i choose destroy so what then..

The pic I posted is from Destroy. The Citadel doesn't get blown up in any ending post-EC.

oh i see well i only did 1 playthrough and chose destroy and didnt download EC as doing a 2nd playthough just isnt appealing as the game wasnt much fun, And the EC would leave me exactly where i am anyway. Cheers for the info tho.

[Dr_Extrem]

archangel1996 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the problem with MEHEM is that it is just an illusion, the problem is not Shep survive YAY the problem is the ending, da casper, dah Super Weapon that feed itself with War Assets

Sorry for the cut, i don't want to take too much space

the catalyst is not a problem anymore, if you install mehem - this scene is skipped and you can pretent, it does not exist.


off course it is an illusion. the original ec-ending stands at it is - and bioware made it perfectly clear, that it will stay the way it is. "citadel" the last sp-dlc. the story is finished and nothing will be changed any further after this last release.

i can now uninstall the entire series (i payed for and still love) and go away or replay it with the illusion. i chosed the latter, because with the mod i can replay the series without too many problems. the writing problems are still there but at least, one half of my brain (the emotional half) can stand the game with the mod.

[GiarcYekrub]

 

[CronoDragoon]

Fawx9 wrote...

Gun shot, but full range of body movement, rooftop was close to the shore, no reports of a body.

Compared to an almost lasered/explosioned body laying in rubble that only shows signs of being able to breath, as well as being stuck in a place that 0 other living people  know about.

That isn't proof. That's an educated guess.

Regardless, one series has its "suspension of disbelief" threshold at driving a car off a parking garage, while the other has magical visions from thousands of years ago, distilled hive-mind essence machines, and an element that lets me teleport around like Goku on crack.

[archangel1996]

Fawx9 wrote...

MEHEM doesn't do this.

MEHEM to me it's Shep lives so the ending doesn't suck
Shepard lives/dies is important, but whit an ending with sense, an ending where we fight, do some ****, lose many persons and then win or lose
The problem of the ending is that playing the whole saga becomes useless,it's not like the rachni or the krogan are a great deal, in the end all that matters is the War Assets number
that is the problem to me, and da Casper

[archangel1996]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the problem with MEHEM is that it is just an illusion, the problem is not Shep survive YAY the problem is the ending, da casper, dah Super Weapon that feed itself with War Assets

Sorry for the cut, i don't want to take too much space

the catalyst is not a problem anymore, if you install mehem - this scene is skipped and you can pretent, it does not exist.


off course it is an illusion. the original ec-ending stands at it is - and bioware made it perfectly clear, that it will stay the way it is. "citadel" the last sp-dlc. the story is finished and nothing will be changed any further after this last release.

i can now uninstall the entire series (i payed for and still love) and go away or replay it with the illusion. i chosed the latter, because with the mod i can replay the series without too many problems. the writing problems are still there but at least, one half of my brain (the emotional half) can stand the game with the mod.

And i understand that, i think it all comes to, as you sayed, all or nothing
I simply can't convince myself that the ending doesn't exist, that it is just a dream and the reality is a nightmare to be poetic

[Fawx9]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Gun shot, but full range of body movement, rooftop was close to the shore, no reports of a body.

Compared to an almost lasered/explosioned body laying in rubble that only shows signs of being able to breath, as well as being stuck in a place that 0 other living people  know about.

That isn't proof. That's an educated guess.

Regardless, one series has its "suspension of disbelief" threshold at driving a car off a parking garage, while the other has magical visions from thousands of years ago, distilled hive-mind essence machines, and an element that lets me teleport around like Goku on crack.

Like I said though, the closure of the JB scene is clearer in what it's trying to tell.

ME3's scene is about as clear as mud if you look at the scene in and of itself without looking at file names, dev quotes or story conventions.

[CronoDragoon]

Fawx9 wrote...
Like I said though, the closure of the JB scene is clearer in what it's trying to tell.

ME3's scene is about as clear as mud if you look at the scene in and of itself without looking at file names, dev quotes or story conventions.

I don't buy that at all. If you never read any dev quotes then it's obvious the scene is there to imply he's alive. There's only one thing to suggest the scene means anything else: dev quotes.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 26 février 2013 - 12:30 .

[Some Gamer Guy]

There's still a sizable chunk of game post-Priority: Citadel II. It's not like Shepard rents the apartment and then immediately assaults TIM's base.

[Fawx9]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...
Like I said though, the closure of the JB scene is clearer in what it's trying to tell.

ME3's scene is about as clear as mud if you look at the scene in and of itself without looking at file names, dev quotes or story conventions.

I don't buy that at all. If you never read any dev quotes then it's obvious the scene is there to imply he's alive. There's only one thing to suggest the scene means anything else: dev quotes.

And yet every logical piece in my head is saying he should die soon, even if story conventions say that he'll live.

The man was nearly deepfried by Harby, ran into an explosion big enough to see from space and is seen burried in rubble after every ship has fled the system.

Given the rest of the ending it extremely hard(again for me) not to be pulled out of the "everything makes sense box" the story tries to keep you in. A more conclusive scene would obviously help.

[CronoDragoon]

Fawx9 wrote...

And yet every logical piece in my head is saying he should die soon, even if story conventions say that he'll live.

The man was nearly deepfried by Harby, ran into an explosion big enough to see from space and is seen burried in rubble after every ship has fled the system.

Given the rest of the ending it extremely hard(again for me) not to be pulled out of the "everything makes sense box" the story tries to keep you in. A more conclusive scene would obviously help.

I don't really see how a more conclusive scene would help against the logic of why he should be dead. All the reasons why are still as true before as after.

Luckily, story conventions trump logic every time, when speaking of canon and "what happened."

[Fawx9]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

And yet every logical piece in my head is saying he should die soon, even if story conventions say that he'll live.

The man was nearly deepfried by Harby, ran into an explosion big enough to see from space and is seen burried in rubble after every ship has fled the system.

Given the rest of the ending it extremely hard(again for me) not to be pulled out of the "everything makes sense box" the story tries to keep you in. A more conclusive scene would obviously help.

I don't really see how a more conclusive scene would help against the logic of why he should be dead. All the reasons why are still as true before as after.

Luckily, story conventions trump logic every time, when speaking of canon and "what happened."

Because emotions are funny like that. Give us that "Awesome he lived!" over "Wait is he alive or not?" feeling and you don't really have to worry about the logic as much.

Modifié par Fawx9, 26 février 2013 - 12:45 .

[CronoDragoon]

Fawx9 wrote...

Because emotions are funny like that. Give us that "Awesome he lived!" over "Wait is he alive or not?" feeling and you don't really have to worry about the logic as much.

Ahhh, okay. So we're just talking about the catharsis of seeing him alive, and not actually arguing about whether or not he's alive? In that case, I agree, it would be great!

I just get a little weirded out when people who really want a reunion scene seem so adamant to prove that such a scene is so obviously logically impossible. It's not enough to say, "Yeah, I know he's alive but I want to see the reunion!" It's like some weird way to destroy the possibility of one's own wish.

Still, at this point I think MEHEM can be relevant, even if it's only one scene: Since reunion is as canon as anything else, you can just use that scene from MEHEM as the canon.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the problem with MEHEM is that it is just an illusion, the problem is not Shep survive YAY the problem is the ending, da casper, dah Super Weapon that feed itself with War Assets

Sorry for the cut, i don't want to take too much space

the catalyst is not a problem anymore, if you install mehem - this scene is skipped and you can pretent, it does not exist.


off course it is an illusion. the original ec-ending stands at it is - and bioware made it perfectly clear, that it will stay the way it is. "citadel" the last sp-dlc. the story is finished and nothing will be changed any further after this last release.

i can now uninstall the entire series (i payed for and still love) and go away or replay it with the illusion. i chosed the latter, because with the mod i can replay the series without too many problems. the writing problems are still there but at least, one half of my brain (the emotional half) can stand the game with the mod.

Really? No. What you did when you installed the mod was you effectively fired the director and hired a different director to finish the movie. It's not an illusion. You see something different on the screen. It's just a different version of the same movie. We're just having a little fun with it. It's a game. Of course with the mod installed, don't expect to get credit for finishing the game or anything.

Is the First National Bank of Balmora that I built in Morrowind an illusion? No. It paid me 5% interest per day on my gold, and had a pawn shop that bought stuff at 100% of its value up to 500,000 septims per day. No more getting ripped off by vendors. I got tired of running down to the mudcrab with crap, and standing their waiting a day to sell more crap, so I figured why not? Find a site and build a bank, complete with lvl 50 guards loyal to me.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 26 février 2013 - 12:59 .

[Iakus]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


Really? No. What you did when you installed the mod was you effectively fired the director and hired a different director to finish the movie. It's not an illusion. You see something different on the screen. It's just a different version of the same movie. We're just having a little fun with it. It's a game. Of course with the mod installed, don't expect to get credit for finishing the game or anything.

Or think of it as that line from Mythbusters: "I reject your reality and substitute my own" 

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Overall, people who have altered their games via modding alays run a risk something may not work in a new DLC, but it does sound like that is a low risk here.

Yeah, I enjoy using it, but I'm not going to expect BW to design DLC around mods.

Just glad to still have the option to install it if I'd like.

[Dr_Extrem]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the problem with MEHEM is that it is just an illusion, the problem is not Shep survive YAY the problem is the ending, da casper, dah Super Weapon that feed itself with War Assets

Sorry for the cut, i don't want to take too much space

the catalyst is not a problem anymore, if you install mehem - this scene is skipped and you can pretent, it does not exist.


off course it is an illusion. the original ec-ending stands at it is - and bioware made it perfectly clear, that it will stay the way it is. "citadel" the last sp-dlc. the story is finished and nothing will be changed any further after this last release.

i can now uninstall the entire series (i payed for and still love) and go away or replay it with the illusion. i chosed the latter, because with the mod i can replay the series without too many problems. the writing problems are still there but at least, one half of my brain (the emotional half) can stand the game with the mod.

Really? No. What you did when you installed the mod was you effectively fired the director and hired a different director to finish the movie. It's not an illusion. You see something different on the screen. It's just a different version of the same movie. We're just having a little fun with it. It's a game. Of course with the mod installed, don't expect to get credit for finishing the game or anything.

Is the First National Bank of Balmora that I built in Morrowind an illusion? No. It paid me 5% interest per day on my gold, and had a pawn shop that bought stuff at 100% of its value up to 500,000 septims per day. No more getting ripped off by vendors. I got tired of running down to the mudcrab with crap, and standing their waiting a day to sell more crap, so I figured why not? Find a site and build a bank, complete with lvl 50 guards loyal to me.

yeah . the new cut feels good ..


but i wanted to keep the terms of our conversation intact.


like i wrote before .. to get narrativly satisfied, most of the plot would have to be rewritten and implemented differently. like the crucible. its lame in its current form. now, its a giant mystery gun, that does ... something.

in my version, it would have been present (the reapers were made up too powerful in the first 2 games) but far better explained and we would have spend several missions to enhance the crucible or keep enemies from destroying it - something like that. by playing the missions, we would be able to modify the crucibles effects - a "made to measure" reaper off switch.

but we can have that - this part of me will never be satisfied with the endings or even the game. this mod however, can at least keep my emotionla side up and thats better than nothing.



on topic: 
why would my spacer shepard want to own an apartment on the citadel at all? .. to count as a spacer, you have to be in space at least 6 months per year, without staying in a solar system longer than 3 months? 

the normandy is already her home. why move to the citadel?

[The Heretic of Time]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Keep in mind, you as the player (assuming you have finished the game) knows what happens to the Citadel and Shepard. At the point that Shepard gets the apartment in the DLC, that is still unknown to him/her.

Sorry, no offense Chris, but that's a lousy argument.

Never heard of "suspense of disbelief"? Yeah, that just got thrown out of the window. We as the players know how it will end. That knowledge cannot be removed from our brains. Therefor we will never be able to fully enjoy this DLC, because we know how it ends.

Not to mention that it's completely nonsensical and retarded to chill and take it easy in your new appartment when there is a galactic war going on. Seriously, what kind of commander would waste time on building and customizing an appartment when everyone is about to go extinct because of the reapers, who are still out there?

Derpface Shepard: "The reapers are killing millions of people by the minute? I need to save the galaxy? Nahhh, f- that, I'm too busy with furtituring my appartment and playing poker with my friends."


As I said. What little was left of my suspense of disbelief, just went *FLUSHHHHHHHHHH* right down the drain.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 26 février 2013 - 01:27 .

[David7204]

Ridiculous.

First of all, none of that really has anything to do with suspension of disbelief. And that indicates to me that you don't really even know what the term means, you're simply using it as a buzzword in a meager (and failed) attempt to sound competent and professional.

Secondly, your hypocrisy is just laughable. You've shilled several games, at least, that are full of sidequests unimportant in comparison to the central conflict. Pretty much all RPGs have them.

Modifié par David7204, 26 février 2013 - 01:36 .

[Emphyr]

Maybe the things to customize your appartment must be bought with real $ ?

Ea's infamous microtransactions.....

Nah cant be it would create another storm

[Some Gamer Guy]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Sorry, no offense Chris, but that's a lousy argument.

Never heard of "suspense of disbelief"? Yeah, that just got thrown out of the window. We as the players know how it will end. That knowledge cannot be removed from our brains. Therefor we will never be able to fully enjoy this DLC, because we know how it ends.

Woaw, woaw, woaw. You're speaking for yourself and saying that meta-gaming is unavoidable. For one thing, there's plenty of time between Priority: Citadel II and Cronos station to spend in the apartment, casino, etc. Secondly, that's been a staple of role-playing since its inception: removing yourself from the character you're playing; the character remains ignorant, while you as the player may know details they've yet to discover.

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

Ridiculous.

First of all, none of that really has anything to do with suspension of disbelief. And that indicates to me that you don't really even know what the term means, you're simply using it as a buzzword in a meager (and failed) attempt to sound competent and professional.

Secondly, your hypocrisy is just laughable. You've shilled several games, at least, that are full of sidequests unimportant in comparison to the central conflict. Pretty much all RPGs have them.

What makes you think I don't know what suspense of disbelief means?

Also, what makes you think I'm a hypocrite?

Please, do tell.

[David7204]

The reason why you're a hypocrite is simple. You've praised games that have the exact same mechanic that the Citadel DLC features - the opportunity to ignore the central conflict in favor of much less important tasks - and condemned it in Mass Effect. Condemned it with a petty, childish, and baseless argument, I might add.

The reason why I doubt you understand what suspension of disbelief is that you clumsily brought it up in an 'argument' that has nothing to do with it. The fact that the player knows what's going to happen later on has nothing to do with suspension of disbelief. So you're using the term incorrectly.

Modifié par David7204, 26 février 2013 - 01:45 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

This is one of those things I'm willing to wait and see about, but I feel like I almost know the outcome already.

[devSin]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

What makes you think I don't know what suspense of disbelief means?

Suspension of disbelief is a narrative term. Your suspension occurs when impossible or improbable things are made to occur.

Shepard doing something on the Citadel well before it explodes is neither impossible nor improbable.

I will say that the issue is likely more that the ending is crap and stains the rest of the game (and by extension, any content that occurs within that game). It is meaningless because the game is meaningless, not simply because you already know how it ends.