244 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Err, no. That's not what suspension of disbelief is either. You're both wrong.

Modifié par David7204, 26 février 2013 - 01:48 .

[Kais Endac]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Keep in mind, you as the player (assuming you have finished the game) knows what happens to the Citadel and Shepard. At the point that Shepard gets the apartment in the DLC, that is still unknown to him/her.

Sorry, no offense Chris, but that's a lousy argument.

Never heard of "suspense of disbelief"? Yeah, that just got thrown out of the window. We as the players know how it will end. That knowledge cannot be removed from our brains. Therefor we will never be able to fully enjoy this DLC, because we know how it ends.

Not to mention that it's completely nonsensical and retarded to chill and take it easy in your new appartment when there is a galactic war going on. Seriously, what kind of commander would waste time on building and customizing an appartment when everyone is about to go extinct because of the reapers, who are still out there?

Derpface Shepard: "The reapers are killing millions of people by the minute? I need to save the galaxy? Nahhh, f- that, I'm too busy with furtituring my appartment and playing poker with my friends."


As I said. What little was left of my suspense of disbelief, just went *FLUSHHHHHHHHHH* right down the drain.

That may be the case, but the fact remains that Shepard is human he would need to rest and recouperate, there are many cases in the game where soldiers fighting on the frontlines are doing the exact same thing. Soldiers are gambling/partying or just enjoying what little down time they have. Why?, to escape from the war that dominates their lives and because they may not have the chance to do so again. The Citadel at that point is one of the safest places in the galaxy and a focal point for the galaxy.

Edit: and it's not like Shepard spends the entire game going well there's a war on but sod that I'm going to go and get drunk. He will only do these things when you make him therefore if shepard is spending most of the game gambling instead of saving the galaxy it's your fault because you have chosen to take a mini game and sideline the main story.  

Ok the furniture might be a bit silly but people have been wanting to customise more things since the first ME and leaving out a feature like this would probably just make people complain.

It may seem pointless to the player since we know what will happen, but the fact is Shepard doesn't.

After playing any game once why play it again, If you know what will happen?

Even if I am discontent with the endings, I still play the game because I enjoy 95% of it and I'm sure I will enjoy the Citadel dlc. 

Modifié par Kais Endac, 26 février 2013 - 02:06 .

[Some Gamer Guy]

It's when you're willing to play along with something in a story that defies real world logic.

[devSin]

David7204 wrote...

Err, no. That's not what suspension of disbelief is either. You're both wrong.

Oh, go tire someone else.

It's an accurate definition for the purposes of that response, though I'll concede that it should have been different considering his usage.

[David7204]

That's not exactly it either. Because there's an implication there that stories are inherently 'illogical.' And that usually comes from an incomplete, improper, or entirely absent understanding of the differences between fiction and the real world.

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

The reason why you're a hypocrite is simple. You've praised games that have the exact same mechanic that the Citadel DLC features - the opportunity to ignore the central conflict in favor of much less important tasks - and condemned it in Mass Effect. Condemned it with a petty, childish, and baseless argument, I might add.

Please, name 3 games that I priase that have the same level nonsensical side stuff that completely destroys the suspension of disbelief.

I mean sure, every single RPG with side-quests suffers from this problem to some degree and extent. But in none of the RPGs that I praise is this problem so much in-your-face as it is in this DLC.

There is "doing unrelated side-quests that might not help the protagonist towards reaching his goal", and then there is "chilling and building an appartment, while the whole f*cking galaxy is being destroyed and Shepard is under orders to fix that". Big f*cking difference.

The reason why I doubt you understand what suspension of disbelief is that you clumsily brought it up in an 'argument' that has nothing to do with it. The fact that the player knows what's going to happen later on has nothing to do with suspension of disbelief. So you're using the term incorrectly.

You're wrong. This DLC allows us to chill, take it easy and work on our new appartment, while a giant galactic war is going on and Shepard is in the centre of it. I have a hard time to take that serious, or to believe that Shepard's superiors would even allow him to slack off while the galaxy needs him. It's completely unrealistic, and therefor completely destroys my suspension of disbelief.

Sorry, but it appears that I do know what suspension of disbelief is, and my argument and reason for bringing it up is legit. Please, try again.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 26 février 2013 - 01:55 .

[David7204]

devSin wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Err, no. That's not what suspension of disbelief is either. You're both wrong.

Oh, go tire someone else.

It's an accurate definition for the purposes of that response, though I'll concede that it should have been different considering his usage.

You said your suspension occurs when contrived things happen or whatever. The opposite is true. Your suspension is broken when contrived things happen.

Modifié par David7204, 26 février 2013 - 01:55 .

[devSin]

No. The act of suspension is what allows you to overlook these elements. There is no suspension required when you come across something that is logical, consistent, or otherwise explained.

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

devSin wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Err, no. That's not what suspension of disbelief is either. You're both wrong.

Oh, go tire someone else.

It's an accurate definition for the purposes of that response, though I'll concede that it should have been different considering his usage.

You said your suspension occurs when contrived things happen or whatever. The opposite is true. Your suspension is broken when contrived things happen.

Suspension of disbelief occurs when nonsensical things happen and you're willing to accept it and turn a blind eye to it, without giving it too much thought. The suspension of broken when the nonense is so big that you can no longer just turn a blind eye to it.

[vitae-vixi]

Suspension of disbelief is difficult because it depends whether the onus is on the writer or the reader to suspend belief.

You suspend disbelief in order to enjoy a circus or magic act for example, if the act is done well then suspending disbelief is easy however if you refuse to suspend disbelief anyway then the whole experience is changed for you and the onus is no longer on the performer.

The problem arises here is whether the onus of the suspension lies with the writers or the players.

Personally, while I can accept aliens and spaceships (here I suspend disbelief) I can't accept that Shepard (from all we've learnt about him /her during the course of the games) would, in a time of crisis, get a plush new apartment on the citadel and chill while millions are being murdered across the galaxy.

Then we move onto the concepts regarding character development and narrative. There are some things that characters just won't do, if you as the writers make them do it you cease to have a believable character. Here is where the problem lies. Disbelief is no longer suspended.

[Alikain]

Come on another apartment DLC. The last I check we did have apartment already in ME 1 with the DLC Pinnacle station (on the planet Intai'sei) , which never even made into ME2 or ME3. So why another?

[ebevan91]

Alikain wrote...

Come on another apartment DLC. The last I check we did have apartment already in ME 1 with the DLC Pinnacle station (on the planet Intai'sei) , which never even made into ME2 or ME3. So why another?

It's more than just an "apartment DLC".

[David7204]

You've learned that 'suspense' and 'suspension' have different meanings. Congratulations.

But no. That's a very clumsy definition of 'nonsensical.' And 'logical.' And 'consistent.' In other words, suspension of disbelief is reserved for bad writing and childish stories. As I said, there's an implication that something like, say, Lord of the Rings is silly illogical inconsistent fantasy but we ignore that because we have to. Not true in the slightest. Suspension of disbelief is certainly required for a story like Lord of the Rings. Does that means Lord of the Rings is poorly written?

Modifié par David7204, 26 février 2013 - 02:12 .

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

You've learned that 'suspense' and 'suspension' have different meanings. Congratulations.

Suspense and suspension actually do mean the same thing. Learn your own language.

But no. That's a very clumsy definition of 'nonsensical.' And 'logical.' And 'consistent.' In other words, suspension of disbelief is reserved for bad writing and childish stories. As I said, there's an implication that something like, say, Lord of the Rings is silly illogical inconsistent fantasy but we ignore that because we have to. Not true in the slightest. Suspension of disbelief is certainly required for a story like Lord of the Rings. Does that means Lord of the Rings is poorly written?

What the f- are you talking about friend? You are implying and assuming things that I never said or even thought. 

In other words, suspension of disbelief is reserved for bad writing and childish stories.

No. I never said that. Stop trying to twist my arguments. It's what we call "straw-men". Is that the only way you can "win" an argument? Through ad-hominem and straw-men? Pathetic...

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 26 février 2013 - 02:21 .

[spirosz]

Seriously though, metagaming is strong in this thread.

[o Ventus]

vitae-vixi wrote...

Personally, while I can accept aliens and spaceships (here I suspend disbelief) I can't accept that Shepard (from all we've learnt about him /her during the course of the games) would, in a time of crisis, get a plush new apartment on the citadel and chill while millions are being murdered across the galaxy.

But shooting bottles with Garrus and lax dinner dates on the Presidium are alright?

[RocketManSR2]

JamesFaith wrote...

Because I saw people here demanding that they want their flat from Pinnacle Station?

Which got blown up, too. Just sayin'. Seriously, Shepard needs to pick his homes better.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 26 février 2013 - 02:29 .

[dreamgazer]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Because I saw people here demanding that they want their flat from Pinnacle Station?

Which got blown up, too. Just sayin'. Seriously, Shepard needs to pick his homes better.

Like the Normandy? Seriously, I've lived in apartments smaller than Shepard's cabin, and they were a hell of a lot less interesting living spaces.

[medusa_hair]

What happens if Thane was your LI?  I'm interested to find out....

[in it for the lolz]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Because I saw people here demanding that they want their flat from Pinnacle Station?

Which got blown up, too. Just sayin'. Seriously, Shepard needs to pick his homes better.

He can build a house in the Warp.  And it wont get blown up.

[The Heretic of Time]

o Ventus wrote...

vitae-vixi wrote...

Personally, while I can accept aliens and spaceships (here I suspend disbelief) I can't accept that Shepard (from all we've learnt about him /her during the course of the games) would, in a time of crisis, get a plush new apartment on the citadel and chill while millions are being murdered across the galaxy.

But shooting bottles with Garrus and lax dinner dates on the Presidium are alright?

I am willing to accept those unrealistic events (suspension of disbelief) because they are small, short events with no long-term implications. Not to mention that chilling with Garrus was sort-of as a "last wish" to Garrus. Before everything goes to hell, Garrus wanted to have fun one last time. I can understand and accept that.

Decorating a home however, is completely different and on a whole different level. Buying and decorating a home is a huge undertaking. It's not something you just quickly do inbetween missions.


If Tali would want to leave the Normandy so she can build herself a home on Rannoch, would you let Tali leave the Normandy so she can build herself a home on Rannoch, while the reaper war is still going on? Or would you tell her that we have a war to win and that building a home can wait?

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 26 février 2013 - 02:51 .

[Seifer006]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Mr. Priestly Question

the squads (ME2 and Wrex) will they be able to join Shepard on the Priority Earth? Because that would make me want to play that part of the game again

[Wayning_Star]

fans are missin a teaser..if Shep doesn't know about an apartment before the endgame, but why fix one up if Shep doesn't live?

hint hint...

[Alikain]

ebevan91 wrote...

Alikain wrote...

Come on another apartment DLC. The last I check we did have apartment already in ME 1 with the DLC Pinnacle station (on the planet Intai'sei) , which never even made into ME2 or ME3. So why another?

It's more than just an "apartment DLC".

yeah I know that. The thing is, we have been asking for apartment since ME2. The galaxy is at war right now and from the look of things you get to buy an apartment, which you wouldn't even have time to relax in it. Am all for new content for the Citidal and all. Right now I would have prefer our back story( like Shepard meet her mother), to play more part in any new DLC than thing like apartment. Since we never had any sort of closer with per-service history.

[MegaSovereign]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

vitae-vixi wrote...

Personally, while I can accept aliens and spaceships (here I suspend disbelief) I can't accept that Shepard (from all we've learnt about him /her during the course of the games) would, in a time of crisis, get a plush new apartment on the citadel and chill while millions are being murdered across the galaxy.

But shooting bottles with Garrus and lax dinner dates on the Presidium are alright?

I am willing to accept those unrealistic events (suspension of disbelief) because they are small, short events with no long-term implications. Not to mention that chilling with Garrus was sort-of as a "last wish" to Garrus. Before everything goes to hell, Garrus wanted to have fun one last time. I can understand and accept that.

Decorating a home however, is completely different and on a whole different level. Buying and decorating a home is a huge undertaking. It's not something you just quickly do inbetween missions.


If Tali would want to leave the Normandy so she can build herself a home on Rannoch, would you let Tali leave the Normandy so she can build herself a home on Rannoch, while the reaper war is still going on? Or would you tell her that we have a war to win and that building a home can wait?

How is decorating your Normandy cabin any different than an apartment.

Just like all those other things, you don't need to decorate your apartment or spend hours at a casino. It's there for those who would appreciate extra time with your ME1/ME2/ME3 squadmates. Seriously, these sort of complaints are pretty stupid.