153 réponses à ce sujet

[SwitchN7]

Wrex.

[Lieutenant Kurin]

Kaidan hands down, I've saved both, done full playthroughs with them (also romanced Kaidan), and I have to admit that I just think he complements Shepard more, especially if Shep is a biotic (which mine almost always is). Ignoring Ashley's xenophobic comments for a sec, the bomb is a higher priority, Kaidan works with the crew better (in combat, being the only sentinel he works well with a techie like Garrus, or another biotic like Wrex).

I dislike how Kaidan is called "whiny" just because he isn't the most butchy character on the ship, frankly, the fact he had emotional scars and yet already over it by ME1 makes him more "real" in my opinion. It also made me more invested in him. Ashley holding the "Williams" name made me feel sorry for her and made me angry at Alliance politics, but Kaidan killing his teacher in self-defence made me care more. No matter him saying "I'm over it" I know you just don't fully recover from something like that.

In fact, Williams seemed more whiny after a while, when the xenophobia and "my name is ruined!" really set in.

But the reason, THE TRUE REASON, why I prefer to leave Ashley in Virmire is because she's a distraction. That was her job, that was why she was there. If that distraction is gone, the bomb would've had a higher risk of being found and deactivated (or at the very least a mass evac), meaning that her, and the salarians, needed to continue being seen as the major threat. Of course, I would ONLY put Kaidan on the bomb because he's a tech.

In terms of the future games, in ME2, Ash calls you a god, just putting it out there. Kaidan in ME3 however gains more importance, more of a soldier in his own right, he lead to the higher acceptance of human biotics, and honestly made more sense as a Council Spectre. Plus he is more conflicted about the whole Cerberus thing, where as Ash looks at you sideways any time Cerberus is mentioned, the only time she finally drops it is after Chronos station. Too little, too late.

Plus Kaidan's romance, both with FemShep and BroShep was just spectacular, those moments made me smile every time. The only problem is why doesn't he have any body hair? Come on, we all know Kaidan's fuzzy and we like him that way!

[Battlebloodmage]

Lieutenant Kurin wrote...

Kaidan hands down, I've saved both, done full playthroughs with them (also romanced Kaidan), and I have to admit that I just think he complements Shepard more, especially if Shep is a biotic (which mine almost always is). Ignoring Ashley's xenophobic comments for a sec, the bomb is a higher priority, Kaidan works with the crew better (in combat, being the only sentinel he works well with a techie like Garrus, or another biotic like Wrex).

I dislike how Kaidan is called "whiny" just because he isn't the most butchy character on the ship, frankly, the fact he had emotional scars and yet already over it by ME1 makes him more "real" in my opinion. It also made me more invested in him. Ashley holding the "Williams" name made me feel sorry for her and made me angry at Alliance politics, but Kaidan killing his teacher in self-defence made me care more. No matter him saying "I'm over it" I know you just don't fully recover from something like that.

In fact, Williams seemed more whiny after a while, when the xenophobia and "my name is ruined!" really set in.

But the reason, THE TRUE REASON, why I prefer to leave Ashley in Virmire is because she's a distraction. That was her job, that was why she was there. If that distraction is gone, the bomb would've had a higher risk of being found and deactivated (or at the very least a mass evac), meaning that her, and the salarians, needed to continue being seen as the major threat. Of course, I would ONLY put Kaidan on the bomb because he's a tech.

In terms of the future games, in ME2, Ash calls you a god, just putting it out there. Kaidan in ME3 however gains more importance, more of a soldier in his own right, he lead to the higher acceptance of human biotics, and honestly made more sense as a Council Spectre. Plus he is more conflicted about the whole Cerberus thing, where as Ash looks at you sideways any time Cerberus is mentioned, the only time she finally drops it is after Chronos station. Too little, too late.

Plus Kaidan's romance, both with FemShep and BroShep was just spectacular, those moments made me smile every time. The only problem is why doesn't he have any body hair? Come on, we all know Kaidan's fuzzy and we like him that way!

I agree, there's nothing wrong with guys who show emtions. I'm pretty those guys get more ladies than the "tough" guys.  It really reminds me a lot of Alistair hate. Since I play as Maleshep, I know I couldn't romance Kaidan in the first game, but I saved him mainly because he's higher ranked and a biotic, so he's more valuable than a regular soldier.  


Kaidan does look like someone who has facial hair, but Bioware uses the same body model for everyone, so that's to be expected. Although since I don't find hairy chest to be attractive, I enjoy hairless Kaidan more. 

[Mr.House]

Saved both, seen them both over the trilogy. Kaidan hands down, everyday. Better in combat, better character, better dialog and is consistent at least.

I miss Ashley Williams, she was a cool soldier. Wonder what happen to her, Ashley Lawson really was horrible.

[Lieutenant Kurin]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Lieutenant Kurin wrote...

Kaidan hands down, I've saved both, done full playthroughs with them (also romanced Kaidan), and I have to admit that I just think he complements Shepard more, especially if Shep is a biotic (which mine almost always is). Ignoring Ashley's xenophobic comments for a sec, the bomb is a higher priority, Kaidan works with the crew better (in combat, being the only sentinel he works well with a techie like Garrus, or another biotic like Wrex).

I dislike how Kaidan is called "whiny" just because he isn't the most butchy character on the ship, frankly, the fact he had emotional scars and yet already over it by ME1 makes him more "real" in my opinion. It also made me more invested in him. Ashley holding the "Williams" name made me feel sorry for her and made me angry at Alliance politics, but Kaidan killing his teacher in self-defence made me care more. No matter him saying "I'm over it" I know you just don't fully recover from something like that.

In fact, Williams seemed more whiny after a while, when the xenophobia and "my name is ruined!" really set in.

But the reason, THE TRUE REASON, why I prefer to leave Ashley in Virmire is because she's a distraction. That was her job, that was why she was there. If that distraction is gone, the bomb would've had a higher risk of being found and deactivated (or at the very least a mass evac), meaning that her, and the salarians, needed to continue being seen as the major threat. Of course, I would ONLY put Kaidan on the bomb because he's a tech.

In terms of the future games, in ME2, Ash calls you a god, just putting it out there. Kaidan in ME3 however gains more importance, more of a soldier in his own right, he lead to the higher acceptance of human biotics, and honestly made more sense as a Council Spectre. Plus he is more conflicted about the whole Cerberus thing, where as Ash looks at you sideways any time Cerberus is mentioned, the only time she finally drops it is after Chronos station. Too little, too late.

Plus Kaidan's romance, both with FemShep and BroShep was just spectacular, those moments made me smile every time. The only problem is why doesn't he have any body hair? Come on, we all know Kaidan's fuzzy and we like him that way!

I agree, there's nothing wrong with guys who show emtions. I'm pretty those guys get more ladies than the "tough" guys.  It really reminds me a lot of Alistair hate. Since I play as Maleshep, I know I couldn't romance Kaidan in the first game, but I saved him mainly because he's higher ranked and a biotic, so he's more valuable than a regular soldier.  


Kaidan does look like someone who has facial hair, but Bioware uses the same body model for everyone, so that's to be expected. Although since I don't find hairy chest to be attractive, I enjoy hairless Kaidan more. 

 While I get the Alastair comparison, I have to admit, his "I don't want to be king" thing was a teeeeny bit "whiny". Also, I dunno about ladies, but the emotional men do get more of the guys . I just think the "I'm so tough" thing is way too overused in games. The best role-playing games tend to have characters who have emotions and have more than one side. Another reason why Ash got annoying at times. She wasn't exactly a fully fleshed character, though, in ME1, not many characters were.

Oh, and excuse me for liking body hair, fuzz hater .... 

Modifié par Lieutenant Kurin, 26 avril 2013 - 06:17 .

[CDR David Shepard]

Mr.House wrote...

Saved both, seen them both over the trilogy. Kaidan hands down, everyday. Better in combat, better character, better dialog and is consistent at least.

I miss Ashley Williams, she was a cool soldier. Wonder what happen to her, Ashley Lawson really was horrible.

I always love how people just blindly compare ME3 Ashley to Miranda....just because they both wear (what can be considered) sexy outfits.

It just shows your lack of attention to their actual characters.

It's one thing to not like Ashleys change in ME3...but I think it's absurd to say she is just a Miranda copy.

Modifié par CDR David Shepard, 26 avril 2013 - 06:23 .

[Battlebloodmage]

Lieutenant Kurin wrote...


 While I get the Alastair comparison, I have to admit, his "I don't want to be king" thing was a teeeeny bit "whiny". Also, I dunno about ladies, but the emotional men do get more of the guys . I just think the "I'm so tough" thing is way too overused in games. The best role-playing games tend to have characters who have emotions and have more than one side. Another reason why Ash got annoying at times. She wasn't exactly a fully fleshed character, though, in ME1, not many characters were.

Oh, and excuse me for liking body hair, fuzz hater .... 

I find Alistair adorkable, so I guess I'm biased. He doesn't want to be king, and there is another person who is better suited to be the ruler, IMO. That's his personal issue though, so I don't blame him if he has a strong feeling regarding it, but asides from that, he's very cooperative, and doesn't question your every decision like with Ashley/Kaidan. I never find the "tough guy" act to be attractive, so I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't have a problem with body hair per se; it's just not to my liking, I suppose. I'm more about the face anyway, so body hair or not, it's not as important as a good looking face. 

It's not like I hate Ashley though, I just click more to Kaidan than Ashley. Bros before hoes, although Kaidan was the "ho" in ME3. 

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 26 avril 2013 - 06:32 .

[Mr.House]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Saved both, seen them both over the trilogy. Kaidan hands down, everyday. Better in combat, better character, better dialog and is consistent at least.

I miss Ashley Williams, she was a cool soldier. Wonder what happen to her, Ashley Lawson really was horrible.

I always love how people just blindly compare ME3 Ashley to Miranda....just because they both wear (what can be considered) sexy outfits.

It just shows your lack of attention to their actual characters.

It's one thing to not like Ashleys change in ME3...but I think it's absurd to say she is just a Miranda copy.

Her character in ME3 is bull crap. As a big Ash fan back when ME came out I was very disapointed with what her new writer did and whoever designed the ME3 look <_< Have Ash sacerfice herself on Virmire, spare her torture of becoming Ashley Lawson.

Modifié par Mr.House, 26 avril 2013 - 06:39 .

[Lieutenant Kurin]

Battlebloodmage wrote...
I find Alistair adorkable, so I guess I'm biased. He doesn't want to be king, and there is another person who is better suited to be the ruler, IMO. That's his personal issue though, so I don't blame him if he has a strong feeling regarding it, but asides from that, he's very cooperative, and doesn't question your every decision like with Ashley/Kaidan. I never find the "tough guy" act to be attractive, so I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't have a problem with body hair per se; it's just not to my liking, I suppose. I'm more about the face anyway, so body hair or not, it's not as important as a good looking face. 

It's not like I hate Ashley though, I just click more to Kaidan than Ashley. Bros before hoes, although Kaidan was the "ho" in ME3. 

Yes, yes he was <3. It's nice that there are others who think Kaidan and Shepard just *click*. As bros or more, they just... click. Plus, that voice, Sbarge's voice is so uniquely amazing it's crazy.

[Lieutenant Kurin]

Mr.House wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Saved both, seen them both over the trilogy. Kaidan hands down, everyday. Better in combat, better character, better dialog and is consistent at least.

I miss Ashley Williams, she was a cool soldier. Wonder what happen to her, Ashley Lawson really was horrible.

I always love how people just blindly compare ME3 Ashley to Miranda....just because they both wear (what can be considered) sexy outfits.

It just shows your lack of attention to their actual characters.

It's one thing to not like Ashleys change in ME3...but I think it's absurd to say she is just a Miranda copy.

Her character in ME3 is bull crap. As a big Ash fan back when ME came out I was very disapointed with what her new writer did and whoever designed the ME3 look <_< Have Ash sacerfice herself on Virmire, spare her torture of becoming Ashley Lawson.

Just because she was made... more sexy... doesn't make her "Ashley Lawson". And frankly, I'm surprised that her hair wasn't brought down in ME2. She did plump up those lips like crazy though....

[Mr.House]

Lieutenant Kurin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Saved both, seen them both over the trilogy. Kaidan hands down, everyday. Better in combat, better character, better dialog and is consistent at least.

I miss Ashley Williams, she was a cool soldier. Wonder what happen to her, Ashley Lawson really was horrible.

I always love how people just blindly compare ME3 Ashley to Miranda....just because they both wear (what can be considered) sexy outfits.

It just shows your lack of attention to their actual characters.

It's one thing to not like Ashleys change in ME3...but I think it's absurd to say she is just a Miranda copy.

Her character in ME3 is bull crap. As a big Ash fan back when ME came out I was very disapointed with what her new writer did and whoever designed the ME3 look <_< Have Ash sacerfice herself on Virmire, spare her torture of becoming Ashley Lawson.

Just because she was made... more sexy... doesn't make her "Ashley Lawson". And frankly, I'm surprised that her hair wasn't brought down in ME2. She did plump up those lips like crazy though....

IMO she was made ugly in ME3. So not only is her character design botched, and looks like a deformed Miranda, her character itself is also botched because her writer simply didn't do a good job. The Ashley in ME3 is not the one I knew in ME. This is a whole new character that just shares the name and shares a few traits.

[Reikilea]

Mr.House wrote...

Saved both, seen them both over the trilogy. Kaidan hands down, everyday. Better in combat, better character, better dialog and is consistent at least.

I miss Ashley Williams, she was a cool soldier. Wonder what happen to her, Ashley Lawson really was horrible.

Mr. House I may not always agree with you, you made me wipe out Brotherhood of Steel, but I agree with you on Miranda Lawson. When I first saw her in ME3, I thought for a moment she was Miranda, and was there to sell Cerberus info to Alliance. 

I miss her hair bun, miss her normal clothes, I miss her awesome ME1 personality. 

However, Kaidan wins. All the time. 

[Hazegurl]

Let's see. Kaidan is a biotic and tech. it makes sense to have him stay on the bomb. Ash is a soldier and pretty much just good for the distraction team. If the Geth are headed toward the bomb it only makes sense that Saren would be with them and thus getting back to the bomb is priority. Thus Kaidan will always be saved no matter what playthrough I do. Considering what happens to Ash in ME3 it seems better to just let her RIP anyway. I see no reason why she would be given Spectre status and I see nothing her character could achieve that would be worthy of giving her such a role. Kaidan is an L2 biotic who leads his own squad and higher ranked than her. story wise it makes more sense for Kaidan to live.

Gameplay, Kaidan is a better character, adds a bit of down to earth flavor to the game and Shep. Better voice acting, better dialogue, consistent character development, awesome to romance, and a great squat member.

[Seishoujyo]

Ashley or Kaidan, well it's the same **** for me, Ashley was ok in ME1, but in ME3 I don't know, she's bland, she's very different from the ME1 Ashley.

[Exile Isan]

Ashley always had big lips.

[Bleachrude]

Trentest0 wrote...

Ashley does have a ambient interaction with Tali, after the Tuchunka Bomb, you can find it on YouTube. Of course, everyone did that mission way before the Citadel Coup, so yknow...

Heh...didn't know that..I really liked this conversation between the two of them.

[goodventure]

I really wish the game touched more on the VS getting promoted to Spectre. Their promotion to spectre didn't really directly affect anything in the game besides defending the Council during the Citadel coup... maybe it's because they both could die in one playthrough? I wanted to see the same Spectre promotion ceremony for them as I did with my own Shepard back in ME1!!!

But to answer the OP's question, it's Kaidan all the time, for the same exact reasons.

Don't get me wrong, Ashley's character arc in ME1 was fantastic. ME2 didn't really do either VS justice, and I just really wish she had more interaction with the other crew in ME3... even the Citadel DLC didn't really do much to improve on this. (Well, Ash trying to hook up with James did make me chuckle a bit.)

[BounceDK]

I'm a dude so I go for Ashley every single time, plus I already got sick of Raphael's voice in Kotor so that's also something to consider.

[cljqnsnyc]

I've played through the series MANY times over starting in 2007. I liked some things about Ash and thought she was fun to have around back then. But, her problems with the non humans is in direct conflict with Shep, my Shep anyways. Given that, she never, not even once made it off Virmire. After reading how her character develops past ME1, seems I made the right choice. LI or not, Kaiden is a better fit with my ManShep.

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 28 avril 2013 - 08:54 .

[ME123insanity]

I'm kinda mad at Bioware because of that, it's like she almost got totally ignored. Why? Is it because not as many people like her or what?

[Morlath]

From a purely literary standpoint there are two ways in which I make the decision based on the personality of my Shepard.

1 - A bomb has to go off and Hero decides to stay behind, potentially setting up a dead-mans switch, so that their friends can get out alive. (Kaidan)

2 - Hero with disgraced family name covers the retreat of their squad and is rewarded with both their family honour reclaimed and the highest medal possible.

Regardless of their personalities these are the only two factors I take into consideration. I've even had them as being LI and left behind because it suited the Shepard I was using at the time.

[BombThatDeadGuy]

Ashley was a bit more memorable in the first game than Kaiden was but when the third game came out she got to be well rather boring. She lacked the same fire and passion that she had back in the first game hell at one point even Shepherd mentions this when she's in the hospital.

Kaiden on the other hand got better as the series progressed and is at his best in the third game. He seems to put more effort into his performance and has more to do than Ashley when he joins up such moving around and talking to other crew members so he feels more alive than Ashley even if Ashley has more to do on the Citadel than Kaiden.

So to me Ashley was better than Kaiden in the first game while Kaiden was better than Ashley in the third game.

[SwitchN7]

If i could play poorly i would get Kaidan/Ashley killed off as well in ME3. Horrible horrible characters. Just awful... Especially Kaidan. Dear Lord... Terrible. I actually want to use him as a gay ornament on the Normandy's cockpit.

[JDee3]

I play male Shep. I always save Ashley in ME1 because it makes sense. You're not just going to save her but the people she is with and the bomb is already taken care of by Kaidan.

In ME2 I didn't hate her mistrust toward Shepard and it was nice to see her again even though.. meh. No real problem there for me. I REALLY can't stand Ashley in ME3.. and I'm not really a fan of the voice actor mixed with the new look.. I don't know, somethings off there. I hated her drunk scene which is one of her only scenes. Sometimes I think maybe I should just not let her on the Normandy because of all the negative feeling not only me but my Shep would have toward her (better word, tension). I always get frustrated in my playthrough, going around the ship and she has nothing good to see leading me to just ignoring her little room.

The ONLY thing I like about her in ME3 is in the Citadel DLC (spoiler) when her and James hook up and when during the mission she's sad because she never gets picked.. which is true. I'm a soldier and never need her. So I REALLY like both those things which may actually save her from getting killed but it's a small part of the game. Besides it making sense for her to point a gun at me more than Kaidan and for me not wanting to carry Kaidan off like a girl on Mars, I don't see why she should be around.

I never got to know Kaidan that well because he died but from what I've heard, he would just fit better and not be so boring. Plus it would make sense in that scene where Shep says he misses whoever died after one of his bad dreams because I actuallyyy miss Ashley.

..so idk. Gonna I have to do some youtube research I guess. Hate metagaming though *sigh*

Modifié par JDee3, 30 avril 2013 - 08:24 .

[P. Domi]

The sooner you get either Ashley or Kaidan in ME 3, the more comments they'll make regarding the missions and the progress in the main plot. The same if you use them for missions. This is a no spoiler forum, but Ash & Kaidan talk a lot during missions and you end up understanding some things better IF you include them in key plot moments (which is, of course, a player's choice, it is up to you).

I, for one, liked these two characters. I think they were not given enough dialogue options in ME 3. In ME 1, Ashley was written by Chris L'Étoile, who also wrote Legion and Thane for ME 2 (some of the best, deepest characters in the franchise). Unfortunately, he left Bioware in 2009. He did an excellent work with these 3 characters, whoever wrote Legion and Thane for ME 3, just had to continue with the great foundational work and involve them in the galaxy-wide conflict.

With Kaidan Alenko or Ashley Williams, the writing was going to be trickier. First off, they were loyal to Shepard, to the core, in ME 1 (whether you were malShep or fem Shep). But they were military, like you. They can't just accept you are seemingly working for Cerberus. They both admit to "not wanting to believe the rumors". (direct quote from ME2)

Without an insight into what Shepard is doing in ME 2, they don't really know who you are anymore. Even Anderson, the paternal figure and one of Shepard's major supporters, doesn't really understand at first what is Shepard doing with Cerberus. There may be even rumors that you never died, that you simply defected. He admits to have been witholding information from you, the very first time you talk to Anderson in the Citadel.

If you stop to think about it, they don't know the details about the Lazarus Project or the Collectors' raids, TIM has probably been leaking misinformation all along (and that may include false info that you have fully embraced Cerberus ideals). The fact that all "Cerberus" personnel on board the SR-2 seems friendly should not overshadow the fact that it is a terrorist organization without scruples(Akuze? Kahoku? Jack and other biotic children kidnappings? Their bioweapons experiments with Rachni? Project Overlord? Trying and botching a secret operation to take control of a derelict Reaper?).

TIM manages to fool Shepard and his team several times in ME2, who is to say he does not fool the Alliance Intelligence into thinking of you as a turncoat?

The encounter on Horizon and the email from the Virmire survivor in ME 2 are very revealing of this. It would make sense, as fellow Alliance officers, they'd mistrust you until you fully prove your true allegiance, in other words, until you disprove all the propaganda and misinformation about you TIM may have spread while you were the C.O. on board one of their ships.

I agree, the writing and dialogue for both characters in ME 2 and ME 3 could have been much better, but story-wise it makes sense you have to regain their trust. It may come across as just being ****y, but in the 3-game story arc it makes sense. Even Tali has misgivings about joining you in ME2. In fact, she doesn't right away, as you remember. 

Modifié par pablodomi, 01 mai 2013 - 01:04 .