341 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

Who controls the lore again? Is it the developers, or the fans?

These post proclaiming that something violates the lore, when it might not in fact contradict what mordin says by using the addage of "An exception to the rule" and applying it to this situation.

Prothean biology appears similar in an extent to rachni bilology, where information, memories, even emotions, can be transmitted through specialized objects between the races. The collectors, for all their modifications, are still prothean. If they're dna was so altered that they were not prothean, a dna scan EDI preformed would not match the collectors to the protheans in ME2. There could, through sheer luck, have been a few collectors who retained a genetically passed on message from their former species.

This might only occur in certain clones who are created from the dna of certain protheans, or perhaps collector captians alone for their similarity with the collector general. The description of the leviathan orbs affecting the collectors states most died out. That would suggest that both mordin, and this new collector, follow and permit the lore. Mordin may be a scientist, but he cannot bend the rules of probability and negate all forms of variables from immerging.

This is my take on it, both the awakened collector and mordin's assessment of the collectors are correct, but mordin was speaking in general terms, while the awakened collector shows merely a exception to what is the majority of the collectors around.  I do not perscribe to the zero/sum mentality of some of the posters here, nor do I think this has much over-arching implications for the story. The collectors are fighting out of revenge to honor their people, or possibly the leviathans people, in destroying the reapers. In the end, IMO, they will die. Why? Because they will either be destroyed in the destroy ending, or they will succed in their mission and kill themselves, for wanting to rest in peace with the rest of their kind. Some may live on, but they lack the ability to reproduce and will likley have no base to return to at the end of the war, meaning they will simply live until their bodies naturally shut down.

I don't really see a problem in this.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 27 février 2013 - 08:26 .

[Bill Casey]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Who controls the lore again? Is it the developers, or the fans?

Neither...

[Cainhurst Crow]

Bill Casey wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Who controls the lore again? Is it the developers, or the fans?

Neither...

I pretty sure the one who creates the story, get's to decide what is or is not part of that story.

At least that's my experience. Though honestly I'm not that invested in the question, since it will not change nor persuade anyone.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

"Who controls the lore again? Is it the developers, or the fans? "

The developers of course, but let's not pretend that they can't damage or undermine their own work, just because they control it.

[eye basher]

It doesn't is just a body controlled by the leviathans.

[ahnariprellik]

humes spork wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

I'm pretty sure I know what I typed, I'm just not sure about the logic behind it. How do the collectors regain their sense of self (pre-indoctrinated protheans) after being enslaved for 50,000 years (genetically modified husks with organs/"soul"/etc replaced by tech) get FREED by be being enthralled.

Yeah, how does something get freed by being enthralled?

Might be a good question to ask if the background said anything about them actually being free.

Well in the Leviathan DLC cave paintings we see the Leviathan lifting a more primitive race up to a higher level of being. Not sure if through thralldom or something else but couldn't they do the same with a formerly repurposed Prothean?

[Endgame22]

Sovereign330 wrote...

Endgame22 wrote...

Well this is interesting turn of events when i watched the trailer and i saw that it was so awesome but yeah the codex entry i feel doesn't explain enough.

i think it does more than enough if you read it properly...woulda helped if it was worded better but yes..its a levy thrall

Yes i agree with, i did read it very carefully, and yeah your right it is a levy thrall. 

[Kataphrut94]

The text suggests that it was breaking Harbinger's control over the Collectors that awoke them. Leaving aside to the fact that this is apparantly a rare occurence and that there were Collectors who simply died as a result, this is not the first time such a thing has happened.

When Harbinger released control of the Collector-General at the end of Mass Effect 2, for a split-second before it died, it appeared to have some comprehension of it's surroundings. There is no way to confirm this, but it is possible to interpret the General's body language as horrific realisation of what it had become for the briefest of moments before being vaporised. It is not impossible to assume this would have a similar effect on the rest of the Collectors.

[Dubozz]

From now on he is Awkward Collector for me.

[InvincibleHero]

This argument is silly as using something in the past (Mordin examining one collector) to say some future event cannot ooccur because of that. Information changes all the time. His hypothesis and that was what it was has been proven to not be absolute. He was correct at the time in his observation of a limited sample. Circumstances and new evidence have emerged.

BW gets to write this and not the fans. People once were sure the world was flat. That changed too. What Mordin said was not 100% dyed in wool fact. It was an observation and his opinion. Yes he is smart and his opinion carries much weight but he has been wrong before. Both situations can exist and both are correct.

[KevShep]

InvincibleHero wrote...

This argument is silly as using something in the past (Mordin examining one collector) to say some future event cannot ooccur because of that. Information changes all the time. His hypothesis and that was what it was has been proven to not be absolute. He was correct at the time in his observation of a limited sample. Circumstances and new evidence have emerged.

BW gets to write this and not the fans. People once were sure the world was flat. That changed too. What Mordin said was not 100% dyed in wool fact. It was an observation and his opinion. Yes he is smart and his opinion carries much weight but he has been wrong before. Both situations can exist and both are correct.

Keep in mind that everything that is said in-game turns out to be true later on unless they are indoctrinated.

[iamthedave3]

KevShep wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

This argument is silly as using something in the past (Mordin examining one collector) to say some future event cannot ooccur because of that. Information changes all the time. His hypothesis and that was what it was has been proven to not be absolute. He was correct at the time in his observation of a limited sample. Circumstances and new evidence have emerged.

BW gets to write this and not the fans. People once were sure the world was flat. That changed too. What Mordin said was not 100% dyed in wool fact. It was an observation and his opinion. Yes he is smart and his opinion carries much weight but he has been wrong before. Both situations can exist and both are correct.

Keep in mind that everything that is said in-game turns out to be true later on unless they are indoctrinated.

Or unless the rule of cool conflicts.

I always felt sorry for the collector general at the end of ME 2. He looked so sad

Bioware controls the lore. Remember Star Wars? They had specific grades of canonicity with G-Canon (or George Canon) being topmost. Never mind that George Lucas inflicted brutalisations on the canon of the Star Wars universe that would be war crimes in some parts of the world, what he says goes.

So the collectors are somehow able to remember what they used to be despite being changed to the point of being more or less a new species. WHY NOT?

[JPN17]

I'm sure others have said this earlier in the thread (too long for me to read it all) but quite simply the awakened collector does not fit into the lore of mass effect. Not in the least. It completely contradicts what we learned about the collectors in ME2. Having said that, Bioware took such a massive dump on the lore of mass effect in the ME3 campaign, that I can say I'm honestly not bothered by the collector in the least. Great character and fun to play.

[Kataphrut94]

See, this is why we shouldn't discuss multiplayer topics in the single player forum. Over there, those guys are talking about what to name their new Collectors, whether or not the Geth Juggernaut is OP and should people stop referring to the Alliance Infiltration Unit as 'sexbot'*. The reason is because they know it's all just a game and that you should just enjoy yourself without whinging about fatuous lore mistakes.

*Respectively: Wiggles, yes but in a good way, and yes for the single-player character upon which she is based, but not important for the player-controlled multiplayer class.

[Enhanced]

InvincibleHero wrote...

This argument is silly as using something in the past (Mordin examining one collector) to say some future event cannot ooccur because of that. Information changes all the time. His hypothesis and that was what it was has been proven to not be absolute. He was correct at the time in his observation of a limited sample. Circumstances and new evidence have emerged.

BW gets to write this and not the fans. People once were sure the world was flat. That changed too. What Mordin said was not 100% dyed in wool fact. It was an observation and his opinion. Yes he is smart and his opinion carries much weight but he has been wrong before. Both situations can exist and both are correct.

Exactly. And in the Leviathan DLC, we see first hand what the Leviathans are capable of. I don't see why this so hard for people to accept:

"When the Reaper-killer known as Leviathan fought the Collectors, it severed their connection to Harbinger with a thrall device"

[Applepie_Svk]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Who controls the lore again? Is it the developers, or the fans?

These post proclaiming that something violates the lore, when it might not in fact contradict what mordin says by using the addage of "An exception to the rule" and applying it to this situation.

Lore doesn´t need to be controlled - lore is rule, ergo it has to be respected.

Why is Collector lore breaking ? 

Simple fact - for being controlled by Leviathan you have to be either in close proximity or there must be an orb used as a booster of signal for Leviathan. I´ve played bunch of games and I´ve seen neither of them, as much it doesn´t fit coz...

Leviathan Enthrallment Team data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D

Requires: Mass Effect 3: Leviathan

data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DA mixed-species team of special-operations soldiers have volunteered to covertly deliver Leviathan artifacts behind enemy lines. These attacks aim to make Reaper creatures thralls of the Leviathans. On a small scale, this could cause chaos and disruption. On a large scale--and if given enough time--it could form an army of Reaper creatures dedicated to exterminating their own kind. The team's major limiting factors are the small number of artifacts and the reluctance of Alliance commanders to operate openly with such a potent weapon for fear the Reapers might develop a countermeasure.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 28 février 2013 - 04:09 .

[Ice Cold J]

 It doesn't, but it's a nice gesture to the MP players who wanted a Colelctor/Prothean.

I just have to reconcile that they are two totally different games now.