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Here is the Awakened Collector Backstory Info... How well does it fit into lore?


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#76
JamesFaith

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NeonFlux117 wrote...

phillip100 wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Again, BioWare want's to ignore ME2. But who really cares.

How does the Awakened Collector or even the Collectors returning in MP ignore ME2? I thought it was made clear in ME3 that there were still Collectors around in Palaven.



Modin's convo in ME2. There is no hope for the collectors. They're husks and have nothing. Everyhting replaced by tech. 


There is no hope for Collectors as race, same as Javik is no hope for Protheans. But individuals still can live some time. 

#77
Wayning_Star

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Obadiah wrote...

Paul Greyson was trapped in his body was it was huskified in Retribution.

The captured Salarian STG team in ME1 that was being indoctrinated still seemed to be in there somewhere, just slowly going crazy.

The husks in the Synthesis EC ending that stop attacking appear to be woken up.

Could be the Husks and Collectors can be freed by Levi.


I wonder if their brain is actually removed. Mordin commentary seems to varify that "all" is replaced by tech?

(in synthesis, the question of 'self' seems rudimentary, as the new wave uncovers a new fangled way. ;)

#78
3DandBeyond

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Wayning_Star wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

They've simply ignored what Mordin had to say on the matter before.
Just look at the Synthesis ending.


This.  Nothing is supposedly meant to fit with anything that came before.  Mordin was clear and made a great deal of sense on the whole thing-he put it succinctly.  There is no person left inside a Collector, because the tech took all that away.  The Zha'til are a big example of what likely would happen (especially if what Leviathan programmed the kid to think is true).  If Synthetics take over and will always kill all organics (and the Collectors show the synthetic part getting rid of the organic), then Synthesis won't end well.


synthesis reboots nature to uphold synthetic organic systemology at the natural level. Evolution now,with synthesis, contains basic model of synthetic structure. Makiing it OK to be synthetic, even a plant can be synthetic. Synthetics would be IN everything, directly affecting preconditions. There wouldn't be any.

Organic and synthetic reality. ONE big happy family tree. Or compendium as the Geth seems to call it. Taking over would have a whole new meaning.

just say'n


We have no indication it does this at all.  We have tech that is fully integrated with organic DNA.  This is the same thing that happened in the story of the Zha'til and the tech took over.  Again, if synthetics will always, inevitably kill all organic life, it makes no sense to have it floating around in an organic/synthetic stew.  What you are suggesting is if the tech becomes really small it's ok and will do good, but this is not the premise of all that the kid is programmed to believe.  He categorically believes that synthetics will inevitably kill all organic life.  Just because it gets attached to organic DNA doesn't mean that is avoided.  The size of the synthetic does not indicate what it might become-if the kid's understanding of all this is true.  And, what's worse is we have no idea exactly what tech is inserted into people-where it came from.

The lesson of the Zha'til is really clear.  The problem is it always comes down to what the purpose of the tech is-we don't know.  And who created it.  The Protheans as a race and culture would create synthetics in their own likeness, so it's reasonable that they would create warrior synthetics who definitely might be more prone to kill.  Or because they controlled other races, that kind of milieu would be the world into which synthetics were born.  However, if there was a race of people that were, say like Mother Theresa and tried most often to do only good and to serve others and they create synthetics, those synthetics might well have more of her type temperament.  They too are subject to nature and nurture. 

Just like a child who is brought up in a racist family-who might be more predisposed to become racist, too, synthetics are products of their creation and their reality.  They are born with a set of abilities and they learn in their environment.  We have no idea just what the tech is or where it came from in Synthesis, but everything in the game was dead set against this kind of intrusion into people's bodies.  Mordin made the most reasonable case about it, but the genophage showed what could happen when you put foreign things into people's bodies.  The Collectors showed the obsenity it could become when tech takes over.

#79
phillip100

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Wayning_Star wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

phillip100 wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Again, BioWare want's to ignore ME2. But who really cares.

How does the Awakened Collector or even the Collectors returning in MP ignore ME2? I thought it was made clear in ME3 that there were still Collectors around in Palaven.

Yep.  One destroyed Collector ship and one destroyed Collector base does not equal an entire species being wiped out.

The Protheans were a vast, galaxy-wide empire.  There's plenty more Collector Black Arks to go around.  The majority of which were hanging around dormant in Dark Space with Harbinger.

bound to be one that didn't 'take' to indoctrination as much as first thought... Life cannot be controlled?

Fixed the quote box.

#80
Wayning_Star

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JamesFaith wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

phillip100 wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Again, BioWare want's to ignore ME2. But who really cares.

How does the Awakened Collector or even the Collectors returning in MP ignore ME2? I thought it was made clear in ME3 that there were still Collectors around in Palaven.



Modin's convo in ME2. There is no hope for the collectors. They're husks and have nothing. Everyhting replaced by tech. 


There is no hope for Collectors as race, same as Javik is no hope for Protheans. But individuals still can live some time. 


the odds of more than one Prothean surviving harvest is good, Javik is proof of that, but finding them in the MEU would be problematic...

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 26 février 2013 - 02:34 .


#81
Wayning_Star

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actually all a race would have to do is stash a few zillion on undevoped worlds in stasis pods, like the Levi did.. lay low, limit your tech, remain hidden..survive harvest?

Ilos was a mistake as too many hidden there to keep for 50k..in one place. Leviathan are crafty..I'd bet there's more of'em on other uncharted planets. They know the MEU like the back of their pincers..lol

#82
GreyLycanTrope

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More retcons! Not surprising.

#83
Wayning_Star

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

They've simply ignored what Mordin had to say on the matter before.
Just look at the Synthesis ending.


This.  Nothing is supposedly meant to fit with anything that came before.  Mordin was clear and made a great deal of sense on the whole thing-he put it succinctly.  There is no person left inside a Collector, because the tech took all that away.  The Zha'til are a big example of what likely would happen (especially if what Leviathan programmed the kid to think is true).  If Synthetics take over and will always kill all organics (and the Collectors show the synthetic part getting rid of the organic), then Synthesis won't end well.


synthesis reboots nature to uphold synthetic organic systemology at the natural level. Evolution now,with synthesis, contains basic model of synthetic structure. Makiing it OK to be synthetic, even a plant can be synthetic. Synthetics would be IN everything, directly affecting preconditions. There wouldn't be any.

Organic and synthetic reality. ONE big happy family tree. Or compendium as the Geth seems to call it. Taking over would have a whole new meaning.

just say'n


We have no indication it does this at all.  We have tech that is fully integrated with organic DNA.  This is the same thing that happened in the story of the Zha'til and the tech took over.  Again, if synthetics will always, inevitably kill all organic life, it makes no sense to have it floating around in an organic/synthetic stew.  What you are suggesting is if the tech becomes really small it's ok and will do good, but this is not the premise of all that the kid is programmed to believe.  He categorically believes that synthetics will inevitably kill all organic life.  Just because it gets attached to organic DNA doesn't mean that is avoided.  The size of the synthetic does not indicate what it might become-if the kid's understanding of all this is true.  And, what's worse is we have no idea exactly what tech is inserted into people-where it came from.

The lesson of the Zha'til is really clear.  The problem is it always comes down to what the purpose of the tech is-we don't know.  And who created it.  The Protheans as a race and culture would create synthetics in their own likeness, so it's reasonable that they would create warrior synthetics who definitely might be more prone to kill.  Or because they controlled other races, that kind of milieu would be the world into which synthetics were born.  However, if there was a race of people that were, say like Mother Theresa and tried most often to do only good and to serve others and they create synthetics, those synthetics might well have more of her type temperament.  They too are subject to nature and nurture. 

Just like a child who is brought up in a racist family-who might be more predisposed to become racist, too, synthetics are products of their creation and their reality.  They are born with a set of abilities and they learn in their environment.  We have no idea just what the tech is or where it came from in Synthesis, but everything in the game was dead set against this kind of intrusion into people's bodies.  Mordin made the most reasonable case about it, but the genophage showed what could happen when you put foreign things into people's bodies.  The Collectors showed the obsenity it could become when tech takes over.


we probably shouldn't upend this thread with syntho organic trivia.. but synthesis undermines 'current' events at thier root beginnigs. It's not that hard to follow how. Sociology is another topic unrelated to immediate effects.

It wouldn't be 'intrusion, if its naturally occuring in nature. In reality, here on old earth, synthesis is really just another form of pollution. Something that going on as we type. We adapt to it if we insist on it, if not, then we go without it.
 
Not many will go without it. Those that do will hide out like Leviathan..lol (friggen hippies)

#84
InTheZone

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This is just dumb.

#85
Wayning_Star

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Greylycantrope wrote...

More retcons! Not surprising.


Thank you for summing that contribution up!Image IPB

#86
Wayning_Star

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InTheZone wrote...

This is just dumb.


see, I told you folks we got renegade collectors!!

Image IPB

#87
GreyLycanTrope

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Wayning_Star wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

More retcons! Not surprising.


Thank you for summing that contribution up!Image IPB

I like being succinct.

#88
Wayning_Star

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Greylycantrope wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

More retcons! Not surprising.


Thank you for summing that contribution up!Image IPB

I like being succinct.


You forgot to mention 'SO BE IT' tho..Image IPB

#89
shepskisaac

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Ohh right, "Mordin explained". Guess what, he was wrong, remember Collector General when Harbinger released control of him? It was a very clear hint that the Collectors were not completely lost

#90
Ticonderoga117

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IsaacShep wrote...

Ohh right, "Mordin explained". Guess what, he was wrong, remember Collector General when Harbinger released control of him? It was a very clear hint that the Collectors were not completely lost


What? That he (?) looked at the giant explosion is a hint? Try harder. It's been established that the Collectors are merely pawns that have zip to do with Protheans because of extensive modifications and there's no chance to "save" them. Deal with it. BioWare messed with the lore... again!

#91
jtav

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The Collector's body language was fearful. It's not a retcon. An in-universe source was wrong.

#92
Ticonderoga117

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jtav wrote...

The Collector's body language was fearful. It's not a retcon. An in-universe source was wrong.


Well, now that everyone is an expert on Collector body language, I'd say it was more resigned because it doesn't know what to do because Harby was in control most of the time.

Barring that though, no one can be sure exactly what he (?) was feeling and thus the in-universe source is still the "correct" one and some writer simply didn't do his research.

#93
TheProtheans

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IsaacShep wrote...

Ohh right, "Mordin explained". Guess what, he was wrong, remember Collector General when Harbinger released control of him? It was a very clear hint that the Collectors were not completely lost


I guess this means that in Synthesis at least, that the husks are still themselves.

#94
Siran

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just enjoy the MP, man...

#95
afgrdnq1

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Mordin could have never imagined a race like the Leviathans to actually exist let alone the influence they could have on a collector. (my 2 cents)

#96
osbourn708967

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could not the Leviathans have instilled the collectors with the memories of the protheans, show them what they once were, hell they took shepard on some weird mental acid trip why not the same for the collectors?

#97
Ticonderoga117

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osbourn708967 wrote...

could not the Leviathans have instilled the collectors with the memories of the protheans, show them what they once were, hell they took shepard on some weird mental acid trip why not the same for the collectors?


Because there's nothing there? The Collectors aren't built to be anything by slaves.

#98
Logos77

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MP = lorelol

#99
F4H bandicoot

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Ohh right, "Mordin explained". Guess what, he was wrong, remember Collector General when Harbinger released control of him? It was a very clear hint that the Collectors were not completely lost


What? That he (?) looked at the giant explosion is a hint? Try harder. It's been established that the Collectors are merely pawns that have zip to do with Protheans because of extensive modifications and there's no chance to "save" them. Deal with it. BioWare messed with the lore... again!


It is heavily implied that the general, when he looks directly at the 'camera' is feeling some sort of 'emotion'.
However the Collector general is not a standard collector.

I'd just like to point out that the codex has been worng about other things in the past, and inuniverse sources are not reliable sources of information.

It's also multiplayer, and people want to play as a prothean/collector, therefore they should put that in, and therefore single player lore should generally override MP 'lore' imo.

#100
devSin

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Well, that's particularly odious. I wish they could have come up with something that actually makes sense, but whatever.