341 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Still not getting you point.

He doesn't have a brain either. Can still do complex tasks.

He does not have an organic brain.He still has a central center of command in his progaming...Or hiscase over1000 of them.

[Andy the Black]

I gave up applying canon lore to the multiplayer somtime ago when some of the, in my view at least, more ridiculous powers were brought in. I saw it more of an exaggeration of events taking place. But I find this this is pretty hard to swallow.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
He does not have an organic brain.He still has a central center of command in his progaming...Or hiscase over1000 of them.

IE; Circuit boards like Unchuld said.

Unschuld wrote...
Here, I'm going to completely remove
everything in your head minus the brainstem and replace it with
circuitboards. Get back to me when you "redevelop your sense of self"
after 50,000 years of enslavement because another thing just decided to
re-enslave you.

Wat.

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
He does not have an organic brain.He still has a central center of command in his progaming...Or hiscase over1000 of them.

IE; Circuit boards like Unchuld said.

Unschuld wrote...
Here, I'm going to completely remove
everything in your head minus the brainstem and replace it with
circuitboards. Get back to me when you "redevelop your sense of self"
after 50,000 years of enslavement because another thing just decided to
re-enslave you.

Wat.

1. Nothing was ever stated their brains were replaces.
2. Geth are digital beings. There thinking is not based on a switch borad. They are 100% living programs.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. Nothing was ever stated their brains were replaces.
2. Geth are digital beings. There thinking is not based on a switch borad. They are 100% living programs.

1. Nothing says they weren't though.
2. Programs can't run in a vacuum. You need hardware with the software.

[MEGoWH777]

Isn't javik already the avatar of vengance?

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1. Nothing was ever stated their brains were replaces.
2. Geth are digital beings. There thinking is not based on a switch borad. They are 100% living programs.

1. Nothing says they weren't though.
2. Programs can't run in a vacuum. You need hardware with the software.

1.The factthat reaper want to combine organics and synthetics together point that they would not.
2.And the geth can move form hardware to hardware and be the same.EDI, who is selfaware hardware, can't.

[NM_Che56]

Liamv2 wrote...

Well it's not to important and Mordin can be wrong

you dare question the scientist salarian?!

[Unschuld]

humes spork wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

...Get back to me when you "redevelop your sense of self" after 50,000 years of enslavement because another thing just decided to re-enslave you.

Now why don't you think about what you just typed.

I'm pretty sure I know what I typed, I'm just not sure about the logic behind it. How do the collectors regain their sense of self (pre-indoctrinated protheans) after being enslaved for 50,000 years (genetically modified husks with organs/"soul"/etc replaced by tech) get FREED by be being enthralled  (enslaved via mind control by the Leviathan)? Not sure if I remember correctly, but weren't the "thrall devices" the orbs that the Leviathans use to, you know, control minds? Make thralls? If it just magically made candy I don't think they'd call it a "thrall device".

So basically what I get from this terrible backstory is

sentient being + enslavement - brain+ enslavement=free will
(and a new brain with free 50,000 year backup file. Yay!)

Seriously, what? Is there a problem with me calling it "re-enslavement", because I don't know if there's any other term in existence for this stupidity. 

Modifié par Unschuld, 26 février 2013 - 05:02 .

[dreman9999]

Master Che wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

Well it's not to important and Mordin can be wrong

you dare question the scientist salarian?!

He has been wrong before.

[mango smoothie]

I was hoping for more of a backstory of where the Alliance found a a way to have limited control on husks from researching Cerberus tech..

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Fits quite well. Also explains why the Collectors don't show up in the SP.

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

1.The factthat reaper want to combine organics and synthetics together point that they would not.

This doesn't prove anything.

And the geth can move form hardware to hardware and be the same.EDI, who is selfaware hardware, can't.

You still need hardware to house the software. Software doesn't just materialize itself into thin air.

[dreman9999]

o Ventus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.The factthat reaper want to combine organics and synthetics together point that they would not.

This doesn't prove anything.

And the geth can move form hardware to hardware and be the same.EDI, who is selfaware hardware, can't.

You still need hardware to house the software. Software doesn't just materialize itself into thin air.

1.Remeber the collectorgeneral in the end of ME2...He was disconected and he was clearly still function.
Also, the husk in synethesis haveselfawareness.
2.It still not the hardware that's doing the thinking with the geth.

[dreman9999]

Unschuld wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

...Get back to me when you "redevelop your sense of self" after 50,000 years of enslavement because another thing just decided to re-enslave you.

Now why don't you think about what you just typed.

I'm pretty sure I know what I typed, I'm just not sure about the logic behind it. How do the collectors regain their sense of self (pre-indoctrinated protheans) after being enslaved for 50,000 years (genetically modified husks with organs/"soul"/etc replaced by tech) get FREED by be being enthralled  (enslaved via mind control by the Leviathan)? Not sure if I remember correctly, but weren't the "thrall devices" the orbs that the Leviathans use to, you know, control minds? Make thralls? If it just magically made candy I don't think they'd call it a "thrall device".

So basically what I get from this terrible backstory is

sentient being + enslavement - brain+ enslavement=free will
(and a new brain with free 50,000 year backup file. Yay!)

Seriously, what? Is there a problem with me calling it "re-enslavement", because I don't know if there's any other term in existence for this stupidity. 

Collector general...

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Liamv2 wrote...

Interesting but what about the mordin thing about there being no soul or brain

Leviathan must take control of them through cybernetics.

[Unschuld]

dreman9999 wrote...Collector general...

Good lord a god damn PLANARIAN with cup eyes will repond to the same stimulus. 

Modifié par Unschuld, 26 février 2013 - 05:38 .

[3DandBeyond]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Ohh right, "Mordin explained". Guess what, he was wrong, remember Collector General when Harbinger released control of him? It was a very clear hint that the Collectors were not completely lost

What? That he (?) looked at the giant explosion is a hint? Try harder. It's been established that the Collectors are merely pawns that have zip to do with Protheans because of extensive modifications and there's no chance to "save" them. Deal with it. BioWare messed with the lore... again!

This and I'd certainly take Mordin's considered opinions backed up with his scientific knowledge over a great many other retcons in the Biowaresphere.  The Collectors were likely the Protheans that argued for control in the debate over using the crucible for destroy or control-they became mere pawns, drones once fully under reaper control and with the substitution of tech for organic parts.

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Ohh right, "Mordin explained". Guess what, he was wrong, remember Collector General when Harbinger released control of him? It was a very clear hint that the Collectors were not completely lost

What? That he (?) looked at the giant explosion is a hint? Try harder. It's been established that the Collectors are merely pawns that have zip to do with Protheans because of extensive modifications and there's no chance to "save" them. Deal with it. BioWare messed with the lore... again!

This and I'd certainly take Mordin's considered opinions backed up with his scientific knowledge over a great many other retcons in the Biowaresphere.  The Collectors were likely the Protheans that argued for control in the debate over using the crucible for destroy or control-they became mere pawns, drones once fully under reaper control and with the substitution of tech for organic parts.

3D, point to me the part of your brain that stores your soul. Then tell there is no chance Mordin can be in error.

[dreman9999]

Unschuld wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...Collector general...

Good lord a god damn PLANARIAN with cup eyes will repond to the same stimulus. 

It would not reach out to it's master as it's leaving.

[3DandBeyond]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

Interesting but what about the mordin thing about there being no soul or brain

Leviathan must take control of them through cybernetics.

Yeah, these same brain dead organics that couldn't or decided not to control their own idiotic AI.  Again, how about they actually work to control him, or help the galaxy do that, instead of trying to control a Collector?  What a real win, whoopie, this apex race can control a Collector.  Amazing.  And yes, this is just MP and I don't look for lore relevance there.  But, again this has a rather sobering effect on my belief in those that seem set to carry Mass Effect forward as a team.

Thing is, I don't much blame them, because people did want more Collectors, just as people want a Batarian squadmate and all.  It's just that they really could make it make more sense.

[Unschuld]

Mordin making a mistake regarding ethics is JUST A LITTLE bit different than making a mistake regarding something physically missing a brain or the capacity to freely think.

Modifié par Unschuld, 26 février 2013 - 05:54 .

[dreman9999]

Unschuld wrote...

Mordin making a mistake regarding ethics is JUST A LITTLE bit different than making a mistake regarding something physically missing a brain or the capacity to freely think.

He never said the brian was gone, Just free will

[jumpingkaede]

Unschuld wrote...

Mordin making a mistake regarding ethics is JUST A LITTLE bit different than making a mistake regarding something physically missing a brain or the capacity to freely think.

In any event, Mordin's "mistake" is, apparently, focusing on the big picture instead of the little things.  In other words, focusing on the genophage being necessary for the Krogan co-existence with the galaxy as a whole as opposed to, say, the lives of each individual krogan that would be affected by the genophage.

I don't think that actually qualifies as a "mistake".

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 26 février 2013 - 06:01 .

[dreman9999]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Mordin making a mistake regarding ethics is JUST A LITTLE bit different than making a mistake regarding something physically missing a brain or the capacity to freely think.

In any event, Mordin's "mistake" is, apparently, focusing on the big picture instead of the little things.  In other words, focusing on the genophage being necessary for the Krogan co-existence with the galaxy as a whole as opposed to, say, the lives of each individual krogan that would be affected by the genophage.

I don't think that actually qualifies as a "mistake".

Mordin clearly does think it is.