142 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Not much, actually. I would really like something along the lines of Shivering Isles for Skyrim. I love those really fantastical settings. Realism is all the rage these days, though. That's what people want.

[Wulfram]

I think there's a whole lot of rather different issues that are being mixed into this.

People need to act like People - this I think people would mostly agree on. But this is complicated by the fact that People don't really agree how People act. One person's gritty realism is another's ludicrous grimdark. The fact that GRRM's characters are praised by some as being realistic makes me very grateful about the sort of people I meet.

Armour and weapons shouldn't look obviously stupid but I'm not so bothered about actual historical accuracy either. However I think swords tend to look better and more deadly if they're not oversized or overly ornate, and the classical "shining armour" look is an aesthetic that appears to me more than a lot of your more fancy fantasy armour.

I don't mind some over the top animations, or stylised depictions of cunning and tactical movement. But the DA2 animations didn't have people moving like people - they were I think too stop-start and seemed to ignore momentum and things - and I'd have preferred something more like Jade Empire. I also dislike combat animations that make me think my characters are showing off rather than actually trying to win.

I'm not opposed in principle to their being widely present and utilised magic or other obviously fantastic elements - some settings can make great and imaginitive use of them - but that's also not how I imagine Dragon Age.

Modifié par Wulfram, 26 février 2013 - 03:04 .

[Althix]

i would prefer melee combat based on biomechanics, that will make it more realistic. in DA:O melee combat was too slow however, only salve or haste could help with that. Swords were normal in size and shape, bow and arrow were fine as well.
DA2 combat i find retarded simply by how it looks, with out even considering it's mechanics and how it works on nightmare. Too fast, too redicilous, too space magical. And weapons design... is horrible.

Realism is important, but less spectacular. Less say you can't launch your body in full plate for three metres in the air to get on Ogre's chest. However ingame it looks awesome.

There should be balance, and no FF emo elves.

Modifié par secretsandlies, 26 février 2013 - 03:05 .

[Maverick827]

mickey111 wrote...

Lots of nuditiy, sexism, oppression of minorities, exploitation of the common masses for the benefit of the few etc are all requirements if you want an authentic medieval setting. And this type of **** goes on in the world quite regularly even now. There is no room for Hollywood PC, and the Hollywood is strong with Bioware.

An author need not be explicit in his or her writings to portray a grim world.  Certain titles even overportray explicit acts to the point of cheapening them ("Grimdark").  The Witcher is the obvious example, but the widly acclaimed A Song of Ice and Fire series (Game of Thrones) often uses harsh topics such as rape as a rather lazy way to show how evil a character is.

[Knight of Dane]

renjility wrote...

I want a fantasy world that is believable, realistic and follows its own rules. DA2 really messed up on that. Codex entry says mages can't teleport, yet you have enemy mages disappearing and a second later reappearing on the other side of the room.

I think it was once explained that they don't in fact teleport, but cast a mirror/cloak spell, run really fast with a spell like hast until the first spell vanish.

Anyway, to OP:
Games can strech fantasy as long as it's explained - as far as I care.
The best games are not the realistic ones, but the ones with a coherent world where story and gameplay sticks to the rules provided.

[mousestalker]

As long as the mechanics (magic, physics, biology etc) are handled consistently and the characters are realistic then all is well.

[Yumichika]

Is Mass Effect Fantasy too?

My Favorite Game Ever is FFX2 cause they went very far in fantasy and their vids and world is unique unique architectures, races, weapons, demons, spirits etc... I love being surprised.

But when the story is strong i'm always in (well except the wolves, bears, medieval europe and dragon stuff i did an overdose with those parts and my eyes can't watch that anymore.

Dragon age is fantasy inspired by reality and well know stories.

Games like FF and ME decide to break the rules so i'm more attracted by innovation, the routine is not for me.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

DA:2 was a step too far towards fantasy for me - it was starting to teeter on a JRPG and even though I like JRPGs it's not what I expect from a WRPG. There were barely any characters which were had any grit to them, and the whole tilt towards Anime felt very out of place, and very weak. It was even more strange that DA:2 focussed on less of a "save the world" plot, and more of a "survive in the city" plot despite the vibe being set totally opposite to that (seriously BW, someone in-house needs a proper slap for not covering such a basic lol. It's like saying "we're gonna record a killer hard rock album, turn everything down to 1 and add a harp playing through every song. ")

So does it matter to you? Do you want to feel like you're in a middle aged England but one which has magic and demons? Or could you not care less and accept 10 stone elves weilding two-handed swords bigger than they are?

For starters, I completely disagree with anyone who goes on about how DA2 was a JRPG. It wasn't. Button Awesome was OTT, and yeah a lot of JRPGs have flashy, unrealistic combat, but that really doesn't make DA2 "Anime". But I really don't want to get into one of these stupid DA2 trashing sessions, since for its flaws, I like that game, so that's all I'm going to say about that.

To me the Dragon Age series is set in a high middle ages/ early Renaissance setting, if the predominance of heavy plate armor and the inspiration behind some of the clothing people wear is any indicator of where the nations of Thedas are culturally speaking. However, I get the feeling with Dragon Age and books like the ones that are part of A Song of Ice and Fire, that the middle ages have lasted longer in these fantasy worlds then they ever did on Earth. Perhaps the existence of magic has slowed down the advancement of technology (in the case of Dragon Age and in A Song of Ice and Fire's past). Perhaps the existence of Blights in Dragon Age and the long winters in A Song of Ice and Fire and the threat of The Others in bygone times have also served to slow the advancement of civilization as well. I'm usually fine with stock medieval settings, although I do like it when fantasy writers try something different, be it a more contemporary setting or a setting inspired by Antiquity.

Yes, a lot of the two-handed swords were silly huge in DA2, but they weren't all that puny in DA:O either. I can accept a slender little elf like Fenris wielding a huge weapon if only because I imagine his strength is one of the things his lyrium markings enhance.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Not much, actually. I would really like something along the lines of Shivering Isles for Skyrim. I love those really fantastical settings. Realism is all the rage these days, though. That's what people want.

You like a little bit of the old Alice in Wonderland zaniness in your fantasy? Why not. Shivering Isles is a place at the whims of insane gods. It would have been disappointing if it was as bland as the rest of Oblivion.

[Rawgrim]

For me its not realism thats important. But belivability. This also goes for magic in a fantasy setting. I like it best when spells and whatsnot makes sense. In d&d, for example, you can summon a huge house to use to rest in (comes with a meal too). Stuff like that makes no sense. why not just summon a bunch of houses above your enemies and let them drop on them? When magic and abilities goes overboard, i tend to cringe.

Another example is bards. Usually they get some singing ability that improves morale, in some way. Meaning: they sing while they fight. this somehow makes allies better, but the opponents don`t. So basically, because they are opponents, they are deaf to the morale boosting words of a song. But not deaf to it if their own bard sing the exact same song. Stuff like that makes me cringe for two reason. 1. It shows the developer of that feature has not given any thought to how it works. Just stuffed some ability into the game, and not bothering to explain the how and why of it. 2. It just doesn`t make sense on any level.

I also dislike it alot when gravity and the laws of nature are pretty much ignored (unless specifficly stated otherwise) for the sake of things having to look "kewl".

So i guess I want belivability, and in order for that to be as good as possible, one needs a fair bit of realism too. Magic doesn`t count, though. Nor dragons. If they excist in the gameworld they are part of the reality of that setting. But they need to make sense. A dragon somehow flying around with no wings would be bad.

[SongstressKitsune]

Frankly, I don't care how grounded my setting is in reality as long as there's internal consistency. If you tell me, for instance, that blighted Qunari become ogres, don't then show me a sequence of a blighted Qunari turning into a genlock (not that we ever see the transformations in-game, just an example.)

I think that's why teleporting mages bothered the hell ut of me in DA2. I enjoyed the game a lot, but besides that being frigging annoying combat-wise, it appeared to contradict the lore.

[Wulfram]

Rawgrim wrote...

Another example is bards. Usually they get some singing ability that improves morale, in some way. Meaning: they sing while they fight. this somehow makes allies better, but the opponents don`t. So basically, because they are opponents, they are deaf to the morale boosting words of a song. But not deaf to it if their own bard sing the exact same song. Stuff like that makes me cringe for two reason. 1. It shows the developer of that feature has not given any thought to how it works. Just stuffed some ability into the game, and not bothering to explain the how and why of it. 2. It just doesn`t make sense on any level.

Why would Loghain's forces be inspired by a rendition of "Loghain has only got one ball"?

[Rawgrim]

Wulfram wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Another example is bards. Usually they get some singing ability that improves morale, in some way. Meaning: they sing while they fight. this somehow makes allies better, but the opponents don`t. So basically, because they are opponents, they are deaf to the morale boosting words of a song. But not deaf to it if their own bard sing the exact same song. Stuff like that makes me cringe for two reason. 1. It shows the developer of that feature has not given any thought to how it works. Just stuffed some ability into the game, and not bothering to explain the how and why of it. 2. It just doesn`t make sense on any level.

Why would Loghain's forces be inspired by a rendition of "Loghain has only got one ball"?

I was getting at the songs bards get in d&d. You get ones that has specific titles and whatsnot.

Actually, i suspect Loghain`s followers might get more encouraged to win the fight if they hear such an insulting song. who knows.

[SpunkyMonkey]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

DA:2 was a step too far towards fantasy for me - it was starting to teeter on a JRPG and even though I like JRPGs it's not what I expect from a WRPG. There were barely any characters which were had any grit to them, and the whole tilt towards Anime felt very out of place, and very weak. It was even more strange that DA:2 focussed on less of a "save the world" plot, and more of a "survive in the city" plot despite the vibe being set totally opposite to that (seriously BW, someone in-house needs a proper slap for not covering such a basic lol. It's like saying "we're gonna record a killer hard rock album, turn everything down to 1 and add a harp playing through every song. ")

So does it matter to you? Do you want to feel like you're in a middle aged England but one which has magic and demons? Or could you not care less and accept 10 stone elves weilding two-handed swords bigger than they are?

For starters, I completely disagree with anyone who goes on about how DA2 was a JRPG. It wasn't. Button Awesome was OTT, and yeah a lot of JRPGs have flashy, unrealistic combat, but that really doesn't make DA2 "Anime". But I really don't want to get into one of these stupid DA2 trashing sessions, since for its flaws, I like that game, so that's all I'm going to say about that.

To me the Dragon Age series is set in a high middle ages/ early Renaissance setting, if the predominance of heavy plate armor and the inspiration behind some of the clothing people wear is any indicator of where the nations of Thedas are culturally speaking. However, I get the feeling with Dragon Age and books like the ones that are part of A Song of Ice and Fire, that the middle ages have lasted longer in these fantasy worlds then they ever did on Earth. Perhaps the existence of magic has slowed down the advancement of technology (in the case of Dragon Age and in A Song of Ice and Fire's past). Perhaps the existence of Blights in Dragon Age and the long winters in A Song of Ice and Fire and the threat of The Others in bygone times have also served to slow the advancement of civilization as well. I'm usually fine with stock medieval settings, although I do like it when fantasy writers try something different, be it a more contemporary setting or a setting inspired by Antiquity.

Yes, a lot of the two-handed swords were silly huge in DA2, but they weren't all that puny in DA:O either. I can accept a slender little elf like Fenris wielding a huge weapon if only because I imagine his strength is one of the things his lyrium markings enhance.

I'm not sure if you are saying this or not, but just to make it clear that I wasn'y saying DA:2 was a JRPG, I just thought it was starting to teeter on one and that was too big a step for my liking away from a classic WRPG's style.

Like I've said, it would have made sense had the story been more fantastical, but it wasn't - it was very mundane for the most part apart from the climax. Sort of like setting Final Fantasy in a sandwich shop.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 26 février 2013 - 04:19 .

[Dutchess]

Knight of Dane wrote...

renjility wrote...

I want a fantasy world that is believable, realistic and follows its own rules. DA2 really messed up on that. Codex entry says mages can't teleport, yet you have enemy mages disappearing and a second later reappearing on the other side of the room.

I think it was once explained that they don't in fact teleport, but cast a mirror/cloak spell, run really fast with a spell like hast until the first spell vanish.

And that sounds more like a rather weak afterthought of an excuse  to justify the design than true logic faithful to the own lore. Why bother with a codex entry that specifically states you can't teleport with magic when you can move so insanely fast with it that to the naked eye it doesn't appear to differ from teleportation? It sounds just like the Enigma of Kirkwall, which was slapped on to have an excuse for why you encounter so many blood mages in Kirkwall. 

[Knight of Dane]

I agree, the thing shouldn't have been in it at all, but that's just what I heard/read.

[Lennard Testarossa]

renjility wrote...
Why bother with a codex entry that specifically states you can't teleport with magic when you can move so insanely fast with it that to the naked eye it doesn't appear to differ from teleportation

Because it is limited to very short distances and doesn't enable you to cross solid objects.

[mr.brightside4u]

I want to be as realistic as it can get.... there should be fantasy races and stuff, but they all should make sense. If there is and elf-race with pointy ears I want a good explanation why they are pointy.... not just well, they are pointy 'cause it looks cool. The explanation doesn't even have to be the best in the world, but the better the explanation the better the race/artifact etc. that gets explained.

[Robhuzz]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

For me it´s not so much a matter of realism as of internal coherence. The setting must have some rules, and it must follow them. ME1 was a good example, most of the SF was built around element zero and its properties, and lore and gameplay followed them. That helped immersion a lot.

Too bad the Michael-Bay-"Wow-Factor" trumped the importance of internal coherence for the devs in the later entries in way too many instances...

Yeah... tried to do a trilogy playthrough short ago. Abandoned before Horizon. Although with ME2, what kept me away was the knowledge it was almost pointless to the main plot, they made a trilogy for the sake of it, not because they needed 3 games. Everybody fighting in heir civvies was a big immersion breaker too.

Back to DA, Origins was quite down to earth, but from Awakening onwards... rogues became full ninjas (they even had the decoy trick), and DA2 went all the way. they even had teleporting mages, something impossible according to lore. And no, invisible mage who quickly runs to other point of scenario and decloaks doesn´t cut it.

Words cannot accurately describe how incredibly frustrating it was to see the team create great lore in DAO only to ignore it completely in DA2. Teleporting mages, golems everywhere in the deep roads and waking up without control rods, every blood mage summoning hordes of demons and undead who then fight at their side instead of turning on them. Mages turning into abominations out of nowhere. I'm sure I missed a few things still. Ugh...awful.<_<

ETA: Feynriel appearing half human/ half elven when it is was stated that all elven/human combos look 100% human.

They should make replaying DAO and reading the codex mandatory for anyone working DA:I as far as I'm concerned.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 26 février 2013 - 05:09 .

[MichaelStuart]

In general, I like a lot of reality in my fantasy.
That been said, giant swords don't brother me.

[LinksOcarina]

Define reality within a fantasy parameter?

Reality is sort of a weighted term, mainly because its impossible to really say something is real or not. A few people above throw around believability as well, which works better. But what do you mean by that? What can you believe in? The history of the world, the fact that the cultures can exist? The rules of magic and demons?

It really depends on how you define such things.

[Knight of Dane]

renjility wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

renjility wrote...

I want a fantasy world that is believable, realistic and follows its own rules. DA2 really messed up on that. Codex entry says mages can't teleport, yet you have enemy mages disappearing and a second later reappearing on the other side of the room.

I think it was once explained that they don't in fact teleport, but cast a mirror/cloak spell, run really fast with a spell like hast until the first spell vanish.

And that sounds more like a rather weak afterthought of an excuse  to justify the design than true logic faithful to the own lore. Why bother with a codex entry that specifically states you can't teleport with magic when you can move so insanely fast with it that to the naked eye it doesn't appear to differ from teleportation? It sounds just like the Enigma of Kirkwall, which was slapped on to have an excuse for why you encounter so many blood mages in Kirkwall. 

Y'know what, I just replayed the "Nature of the Beast" quest in Origins, I'm completing another DA3 import.
I chose to attack the Hermit with the acorn and he "teleported" away.
When I talked to him again Wynne said that "he uses illusions to disappapear," so it's apparently already established in DA:O that, that can be done 

[Sarquindi]

Cosmetically, I like a bit more realism in my fantasy games. I think the person's physique and personality should reflect what role they play. Mages and rogues can be small, not relying on physical combat. Warriors, male and female, should always have more muscle mass in my opinion. A person should be able to wield the weapon they carry. Swords as tall as your body are just silly. And a female warrior with half of her torso exposed is just begging to be stabbed.

Game mechanics that prevent me from ripping my hair out in frustration is fine with me, though. Packs that allow me to carry tons of items are a good thing. I absolutely hate it when I have forced quest items in my pack and I don't have enough inventory slots to pick up that awesome weapon, being forced to destroy something. >_> I also don't mind taking multiple swings of a sword before going down. One hit kills make me quit.

I love fantasy stories built upon history, but I’m okay with fresh ideas too. I’ve liked the Dragon Age story, so far.

[Dutchess]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Y'know what, I just replayed the "Nature of the Beast" quest in Origins, I'm completing another DA3 import.
I chose to attack the Hermit with the acorn and he "teleported" away.
When I talked to him again Wynne said that "he uses illusions to disappapear," so it's apparently already established in DA:O that, that can be done 

Hmm, fair enough. I still find it leaning a bit toward the "cheating" side, and it does raise the question why none of your own mage characters can learn something like that (yes, well, Merrill can move underground like a mole, I know, I know). 

[Dragoonlordz]

It's about realism within the games setting and world not our world (imho). I don't want ninjitsu (for example Rogue Hawkes teleportation jutsu) being used instead of spells by actual casters, I don't want anyones clothing or weapons that do not fit within the technology of that world, cultures or period. I do not want modern real world social and political issues forced into a game when they are out of place within that period and that culture inside the game world/universe. I do not want characters forced to be politically and socially correct or utopian within a game that the cultures within are nowhere near that evolved.

I expect racism, prostitution, gender inequality (whether thats inequality towards women or men depends on the cultures within the game itself), murder, rape and all these non-politically correct things (if it fits within the cultures, societies and period in the world setting). I expect portions of the people within that world to be scantily clothed and portions to be more reasonable dressed of which should alway also match the personalility of the characters, I expect some racist people, some kind people, some narcissistic people, some religious people, some non-religious, some sexist people and so on (all people written well and fitting of the society or cultures within that setting of game). If poverty stricken, unevolved cultures you expect beggers, thieves, murderers, rapists and all the sort that exist within such an environment, if a rich and evolved culture is present you expect more equality, social justice and less of the former types mentioned from the poverty stricken culture.

It simply has to fit and conform with the game's world, cultures, technology and societies NOT our world's.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 26 février 2013 - 06:25 .