237 réponses à ce sujet

[Volus Warlord]

Emzamination wrote...

Could be worse-- the models could be fat with small breast.

That seems so counter-intuitive. I wonder how some people are that way.

[Fredward]

Barneyk wrote...

Blair Brown wrote...

I don't want to accidently derail the thread, i'm actually interested in where this discussion will end up.  I have my own thoughts on this but will wait a bit before posting them.

I don't think that the females are to overly sexualised, they all look fine.
But to put a claim of "different standards of beauty" on it really feels like one is missing the point.

The dward woman might not be slim compared to the others, but that is still what makes her attractive, she has a slim, well defined waist and pretty big boobs, by dwarf standards.

That is the common demoninator for the beauty in all the female characters there, a slim waist and boobs.
I find it sad that it is so one-dimensional.

I wouldn't have reacted if it wasn't for the "different standards of beauty" tag, that is something to really think about.

I will not get into discussion with the other people in this thread, I cannot keep civil when faced with some of the things some people say, so I choose not to.

And really, thanks for listening.

Yip. And all the guys are pretty muscly too. With barrel chests and v shaped torsos. Except the dwarf. But he's a dwarf.

[Giant ambush beetle]

I think the problem is that pretty much all game developers go for the stereotypical attractive looks, which means men with the bodies of Greek heroes and stick thin women which look like they just fell from a modern catwalk right into the game. No exceptions.
In a medieval fantasy world this total lack of variation is getting rather silly and tiring after a while, but maybe thats just me.

[Swoopdogg]

 Do you honestly want an obese LI (or PC)? How about a scrawny one? That's cool if you do, but most people would say no. Bioware is catering to most people, as well they should.

[Volus Warlord]

I want a Fatness bar on the character creator.

[Swoopdogg]

However, I do agree that the "different standards of beauty" tag is a bit misleading.

[Swoopdogg]

Volus Warlord wrote...

I want a Fatness bar on the character creator.

This is something that I could actually see hapening, but I'm not sure how well It'd transfer to combat and, well, romance scenes (not because they're fat, but because typically those scenes are built around one body type)

[Fiddzz]

Barneyk wrote...

Blair Brown wrote...

I don't want to accidently derail the thread, i'm actually interested in where this discussion will end up.  I have my own thoughts on this but will wait a bit before posting them.

I don't think that the females are to overly sexualised, they all look fine.
But to put a claim of "different standards of beauty" on it really feels like one is missing the point.

The dward woman might not be slim compared to the others, but that is still what makes her attractive, she has a slim, well defined waist and pretty big boobs, by dwarf standards.

That is the common demoninator for the beauty in all the female characters there, a slim waist and boobs.
I find it sad that it is so one-dimensional.

I wouldn't have reacted if it wasn't for the "different standards of beauty" tag, that is something to really think about.

I will not get into discussion with the other people in this thread, I cannot keep civil when faced with some of the things some people say, so I choose not to.

And really, thanks for listening.

This is kind of where I am going on this, and I assume where the artist was as well.

"Different standards of beauty"  or how can we look at something and see the beauty in it, or work with it and exaggerate/bring out certain characteristics of the race.

Quick examples if you look closer at the picture, of things that would be different standards of beauty/not beauty for different people viewing it.

- Flat face/hunched-elongated neck of the Qunari male (let alone horns)
- How tall and athletic the Qunari female is (let alone grey skin)
- The thin and elongated face and body of the Elven male
- Female elfs thin shoulder width and long arms
- How short the female dwarf is
- The overly broad shoulders of the male dwarf, barrel chest, small height.

When I look at this I also think to myself about the world of thedas, it's harsh, most people do hard manual labour all day, war is constant, food is very healthy, exercise almost constant (theres no cars).  So most people would be in peak physical condition imo.

I've seen this picture before and I like it a lot.

Also, women have boobs, I don't think any in that picture are overly sexualized or completly out of wack.

And finally, it's exploring the different standards of beauty between the races, which i've highlighted above.

[Atchas]

I personally think the models are decent and not over the top in any way

[themikefest]

The models aren't bad. When they where armor you won't notice it to much.
As long as they help complete the quest I'll be content.

[Emzamination]

Swoopdogg wrote...

 Do you honestly want an obese LI (or PC)? How about a scrawny one? That's cool if you do, but most people would say no. Bioware is catering to most people, as well they should.

Yeah!! Morrigan proportioned LI!!

Edit: Hmm thinking about it non-cgi isabela had a nice backside figure that put miranda to shame. Gimme more of that bioware :happy:

Modifié par Emzamination, 26 février 2013 - 09:39 .

[ReallyRue]

Lightning Cloud wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

 

The dwarf woman isn't stick thin, the Qunari/Tal-Vashoth woman is athletically built, and none of them have exagerated cleavage. But OP, you haven't actually pointed out what you think they should look like instead.

But where is the part of the OP that goes: Oh Bioware, why are all the men attractive and muscular?!

I actually would really like to have a smaller-framed male character, if body types become an option in customization. I think it looks better. 

Smaller than an elf? But he'd disappear from your line of sight the moment he turns sideways! 

[Atchas]

ReallyRue wrote...

Smaller than an elf? But he'd disappear from your line of sight the moment he turns sideways! 

Thank u i LoLd:O

[Blazomancer]

I miss them pot bellied NPCs from Origins.

[Volus Warlord]

Swoopdogg wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

I want a Fatness bar on the character creator.

This is something that I could actually see hapening, but I'm not sure how well It'd transfer to combat and, well, romance scenes (not because they're fat, but because typically those scenes are built around one body type)

Psh I crave sweaty bouncy love.

[Barneyk]

Blair Brown wrote...

This is kind of where I am going on this, and I assume where the artist was as well.

"Different
standards of beauty"  or how can we look at something and see the
beauty in it, or work with it and exaggerate/bring out certain
characteristics of the race.

Quick examples if you look closer at
the picture, of things that would be different standards of beauty/not
beauty for different people viewing it.

- Flat face/hunched-elongated neck of the Qunari male (let alone horns)
- How tall and athletic the Qunari female is (let alone grey skin)
- The thin and elongated face and body of the Elven male
- Female elfs thin shoulder width and long arms
- How short the female dwarf is
- The overly broad shoulders of the male dwarf, barrel chest, small height.

When
I look at this I also think to myself about the world of thedas, it's
harsh, most people do hard manual labour all day, war is constant, food
is very healthy, exercise almost constant (theres no cars).  So most
people would be in peak physical condition imo.

Also, women have boobs, I don't think any in that picture are overly sexualized or completly out of wack.

There are differences, but you miss the point.
Female beauty requires slim waist and boobs, and then there can be differences.
Slim waist and boobs is a prerequisite no matter what race you are, then other details differ in what is beautiful and not. That is the problem I have with this.

And peak physical condition is a valid point, but also misses the point. The kind of well defined slim waist is not a sign of peak physical condition.

And yes, women usually have boobs, more or less. And they are not completly out of whack, I wouldn't have any direct objection to that as an example without the tagline.
But if you wanna pull the card of being in peak physical shape and not eating to much unhealthy stuff, smaller boobs is quite a common result of that.

I think it is worth reflecting about, if you wanna show different standards of beauty but every single female still have a slim waist and big boobs, that says a lot about what "beauty" is since that part doesn't differ.
That standard is constant.

That is what this image says, intentional or not. And that is something worth reflecting over imo.

EDIT: I could analyze this deeper and also get into the male body-image. But that is more in the details, and if I can't get anywhere with the big easy points first, I won't bother going into it deeper.

All I am asking is that one might reflect about things when portraying "different standards of beauty".

Modifié par Barneyk, 26 février 2013 - 09:44 .

[Gill Kaiser]

The breast size thing I could perhaps see as a potential issue, although there is a clear disparity between the dwarf girl and the elf, so I don't think it's a big deal.

But complaining about small waists? Its status as a marker of attractiveness is biological and evolutionary in nature. What are you going to be disappointed about next, their symmetry?

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 26 février 2013 - 09:47 .

[Fiddzz]

Barneyk wrote...

Blair Brown wrote...

This is kind of where I am going on this, and I assume where the artist was as well.

"Different
standards of beauty"  or how can we look at something and see the
beauty in it, or work with it and exaggerate/bring out certain
characteristics of the race.

Quick examples if you look closer at
the picture, of things that would be different standards of beauty/not
beauty for different people viewing it.

- Flat face/hunched-elongated neck of the Qunari male (let alone horns)
- How tall and athletic the Qunari female is (let alone grey skin)
- The thin and elongated face and body of the Elven male
- Female elfs thin shoulder width and long arms
- How short the female dwarf is
- The overly broad shoulders of the male dwarf, barrel chest, small height.

When
I look at this I also think to myself about the world of thedas, it's
harsh, most people do hard manual labour all day, war is constant, food
is very healthy, exercise almost constant (theres no cars).  So most
people would be in peak physical condition imo.

Also, women have boobs, I don't think any in that picture are overly sexualized or completly out of wack.

There are differences, but you miss the point.
Female beauty requires slim waist and boobs, and then there can be differences.
Slim waist and boobs is a prerequisite no matter what race you are, then other details differ in what is beautiful and not. That is the problem I have with this.

And peak physical condition is a valid point, but also misses the point. The kind of well defined slim waist is not a sign of peak physical condition.

And yes, women usually have boobs, more or less. And they are not completly out of whack, I wouldn't have any direct objection to that as an example without the tagline.
But if you wanna pull the card of being in peak physical shape and not eating to much unhealthy stuff, smaller boobs is quite a common result of that.

I think it is worth reflecting about, if you wanna show different standards of beauty but every single female still have a slim waist and big boobs, that says a lot about what "beauty" is since that part doesn't differ.
That standard is constant.

That is what this image says, intentional or not. And that is something worth reflecting over imo.

EDIT: I could analyze this deeper and also get into the male body-image. But that is more in the details, and if I can't get anywhere with the big easy points first, I won't bother going into it deeper.

All I am asking is that one might reflect about things when portraying "different standards of beauty".

To compare the differences between races they all had to have a standard/constant state.  ie. same level of fitness, whether that would have been this or more skinny or less etc.

[nightscrawl]

Barneyk wrote...

How is it different standars of beauty when all the females are thin with big breasts and a well defined slim waist?

Really dissapointing to see Bioware not taking a better and more active stance with this...

I think you'll have to be more specific for your "standards of beauty" comment. Are you talking about those of modern humans in the real world? Are you talking about those of just Westerners? Do you mean what you think should be those held by Thedosians (I mean this seriously)?

If Bioware designs their characters to appeal to their mostly Western audience, and you know, the views of their own devs, then of course they are going to look like that. To be honest, it's only natural. The devs are going to want to design characters that they like to look at, and that their players like to look at, and at this time the image you posted is reflective of that standard.

Do I think there needs to needs to be a wider variety, particularly when it comes to female body types, in all media? Yes I do. If you don't find someone attractive, that is totally fine. But when a hefty comedic actress like Melissa McCarthy is horrifically insulted for being so, when the same comments are not thrown out about, say, Jack Black, or even her co-star on Mike and Molly, Billy Gardell, then I think there is a cultural problem.

Back to the game... this is actually one reason I think it would be helpful to have a body slider in character creation. Not only so we as players can make the type of character that we want to make, but also so the devs, while they are making the hundreds of NPCs that populate the world, can have more variety. The end result is a world that feels more natural because it has natural looking people in it.

Perhaps this will be possible with the new engine and the devs are actually working on it. I have no idea. Such a design decision has larger ramifications than a player being able to make their PC a tiny waif, a hulking beast, or an uber amazon.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 26 février 2013 - 09:55 .

[Tootles FTW]

I find this trend more concerning in a game like Mass Effect where very VERY alien species still carry human sexual traits.

Qunari are tall humans with horns, for all intents and purposes - breasts and hips aren't a large leap in logic, biologically-speaking.
Turians with breasts, though, are more troublesome.

[Emzamination]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

But complaining about small waists? Its status as a marker of attractiveness is biological and evolutionary in nature. What are you going to be disappointed about next, their symmetry?

^ Seriously. So much this.

[TheBlackBaron]

Emzamination wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

But complaining about small waists? Its status as a marker of attractiveness is biological and evolutionary in nature. What are you going to be disappointed about next, their symmetry?

^ Seriously. So much this.

Yeah, pretty much this. 

There's a -reason- the ideal shape tends towards small waists and wide hips.