237 réponses à ce sujet

[LarryDavid]

craigdolphin wrote...
For a superficial example: it should be pretty obvious that small waists are an important visual clue that a woman is not already pregnant with someone else's child. The law of probabilities suggests then that, over evolutionary time and all else being equal, men who exhibit a heritable preference for small waists in their choice of mates are more likely to produce offspring than a similar man with the inverse preference. Thus the trait for small waist preference is more likely to be passed on to future generations unless there is some other harmful outward manifestation that results from the exact same genes that are responsible for the small waist preference.

Whereas I agree on almost everything you said, I think you're wrong to state that nature is the driving force behind waist preference. Whereas it is obvious that the width of the hips is purely genetic, I don't see many genes contributing to the waist width; maybe some genes that determine how easily you can store sugars and fat. It seems, to me, that the main factors are (i) amount of food, (ii) types of food and (iii) and amount of energy required to do the thinks you do. And hence, as to be expected, it is observed that the preference in waists widths is mainly a function of the availability of food in the considered region. In 'poor' countries people in general prefere 'fat' people because it is  unconsciously linked with access to food, which means that their children won't starve to dead. In 'richer' countries their is no shortage of food and hence a small waist is linked with healthy food and sport.

[shootist70]

OP, it's about a cultural legacy of warrior epics imprinting itself in these sorts of genre works. It's not so much about 'beauty' in all its varying forms, but about how we perceive the form of The Warrior.

And yes, there is something of a constant there, stemming from Greco-Roman times. Sure, these are largely male (but not all), but we seem to have imprinted this on the female warrior form also.

Bioware don't make RPG's about belly dancing or whatever, it's all about the skull-cleaving, so it was to be expected that we'd see lots of rippling waists and lithe musculature.

Sure, through history we see lots of interpretations of female beauty, but many of these relate more to an idea of the matron, the mother, the wife, more than they do the female warrior.

Modifié par shootist70, 26 février 2013 - 11:48 .

[TheBlackAdder13]

LarryDavid wrote...

craigdolphin wrote...
For a superficial example: it should be pretty obvious that small waists are an important visual clue that a woman is not already pregnant with someone else's child. The law of probabilities suggests then that, over evolutionary time and all else being equal, men who exhibit a heritable preference for small waists in their choice of mates are more likely to produce offspring than a similar man with the inverse preference. Thus the trait for small waist preference is more likely to be passed on to future generations unless there is some other harmful outward manifestation that results from the exact same genes that are responsible for the small waist preference.

Whereas I agree on almost everything you said, I think you're wrong to state that nature is the driving force behind waist preference. Whereas it is obvious that the width of the hips is purely genetic, I don't see many genes contributing to the waist width; maybe some genes that determine how easily you can store sugars and fat. It seems, to me, that the main factors are (i) amount of food, (ii) types of food and (iii) and amount of energy required to do the thinks you do. And hence, as to be expected, it is observed that the preference in waists widths is mainly a function of the availability of food in the considered region. In 'poor' countries people in general prefere 'fat' people because it is  unconsciously linked with access to food, which means that their children won't starve to dead. In 'richer' countries their is no shortage of food and hence a small waist is linked with healthy food and sport.

I must know...are you THE Larry David? 

[Volus Warlord]

Regardless of your debating and insight, I still believe pregnant women are the most beautiful.

[ObserverStatus]

Well, long story short, adding more depth to video game beauty standards would be unpopular. In World of Warcraft'a beta Tauren and Troll women didn't have nearly as many features that tend to signify human beauty, but Blizzard changed them before the game was released because their fans demanded it.

[Volus Warlord]

bobobo878 wrote...

Well, long story short, adding more depth to video game beauty standards would be unpopular. In World of Warcraft'a beta Tauren and Troll women didn't have nearly as many features that tend to signify human beauty, but Blizzard changed them before the game was released because their fans demanded it.

Ah no. We don't want any of that historical perspective here. No sir.

We want steaming hot pregnant women that charge gloriously into battle.

[CuriousArtemis]

Men are usually ugly in concept art while women are almost always hot or at least interesting. Or it's more like (male) concept artists draw what they think are "bad ass looking" guys and "hot and cool" girls.

I wouldn't complain too much as the final product, at least in DA2, was fine. Yes, I would like more body diversity for guys AND girls. And there were equal numbers of hideous male and female NPCs. (Our companions, of course, were very attractive.)

But do keep making threads like this, even if they're not entirely accurate, because the Neanderthal reactions are hilaaaarious!

[cJohnOne]

bobobo878 wrote...

Well, long story short, adding more depth to video game beauty standards would be unpopular. In World of Warcraft'a beta Tauren and Troll women didn't have nearly as many features that tend to signify human beauty, but Blizzard changed them before the game was released because their fans demanded it.

I thought most guys played males, ha, ha.  So the woman of other races weren't pretty enough so they changed it.  Probably a good idea in an MMO but they could probably get away with less attractive females in a single player game.  I personally lilke attractive models being used and there being a limit on how many models that are availible that seems fine with me. 

But really if the characters are meant to look different that could be good too.

Modifié par cJohnOne, 27 février 2013 - 12:02 .

[Battlebloodmage]

 I feel like the female Qunnari are too thin, and the concept art is still conforming to the standard of beauty set by the Western civilization. Diablo 3 has the right idea with the female barbarian. She's not toned or athletic, she's big and scary because she's supposed to. There were many threads complaining about female Barbarians being ugly, but why should she have to be beautiful?


In-game model with full-armor on



She-Hulk is an example of a muscular woman in name only. Her model looks very toned instead of big and strong.



While the male dwarves are fat, the female dwarves are thinned and have the hourglass-shaped to her body. There is nothing wrong wtih conforming to the cutural norm, and I also get it from the financial standpoint since sex sells, but It would be nice if there are more variety of body shaped to female characters instead of the usual thin female we see in fantasy setting. 

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 27 février 2013 - 12:04 .

[Straw Nihilist]

Volus Warlord wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Well, long story short, adding more depth to video game beauty standards would be unpopular. In World of Warcraft'a beta Tauren and Troll women didn't have nearly as many features that tend to signify human beauty, but Blizzard changed them before the game was released because their fans demanded it.

Ah no. We don't want any of that historical perspective here. No sir.

We want steaming hot pregnant women that charge gloriously into battle.

.....
Just.
Take.
My.
Money.

[duckley]

Point Number one - although the picture is small - it looks like the Elves are slightly improved.

Point Number two - when I play video games - I prefer looking at handsome, hunky men. If I want diversity in body type - I need only look at my hubby or myself... nuff said  -

[Ianamus]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

 I feel like the female Qunnari are too thin, and the concept art is still conforming to the standard of beauty set by the Western civilization. Diablo 3 has the right idea with the female barbarian. She's not toned or athletic, she's big and scary because she's supposed to. There were many threads complaining about female Barbarians being ugly, but why should she have to be beautiful?

In-game model with full-armor on

She-Hulk is an example of a muscular woman in name only. Her model looks very toned instead of big and strong.

While the male dwarves are fat, the female dwarves are thinned and have the hourglass-shaped to her body. There is nothing wrong wtih conforming to the cutural norm, and I also get it from the financial standpoint since sex sells, but It would be nice if there are more variety of body shaped to female characters instead of the usual thin female we see in fantasy setting. 

Quanri women don't actually fight though. 

[LinksOcarina]

I do have a question for everyone.

How would you differentiate the sexes through sexual dimoprhism then per race, without being called fully sexist?

[Volus Warlord]

Bones 6oS wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Well, long story short, adding more depth to video game beauty standards would be unpopular. In World of Warcraft'a beta Tauren and Troll women didn't have nearly as many features that tend to signify human beauty, but Blizzard changed them before the game was released because their fans demanded it.

Ah no. We don't want any of that historical perspective here. No sir.

We want steaming hot pregnant women that charge gloriously into battle.

.....
Just.
Take.
My.
Money.

This gives me another terrible idea:

A pregnant companion and LI! 

[Volus Warlord]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I do have a question for everyone.

How would you differentiate the sexes through sexual dimoprhism then per race, without being called fully sexist?

If you need to ask that question you are already sexist.

[Battlebloodmage]

EJ107 wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

 I feel like the female Qunnari are too thin, and the concept art is still conforming to the standard of beauty set by the Western civilization. Diablo 3 has the right idea with the female barbarian. She's not toned or athletic, she's big and scary because she's supposed to. There were many threads complaining about female Barbarians being ugly, but why should she have to be beautiful?

In-game model with full-armor on

She-Hulk is an example of a muscular woman in name only. Her model looks very toned instead of big and strong.

While the male dwarves are fat, the female dwarves are thinned and have the hourglass-shaped to her body. There is nothing wrong wtih conforming to the cutural norm, and I also get it from the financial standpoint since sex sells, but It would be nice if there are more variety of body shaped to female characters instead of the usual thin female we see in fantasy setting. 

Quanri women don't actually fight though. 

That has more to do with the Qunnari culture than the physical nature of the race. 

[LinksOcarina]

Volus Warlord wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I do have a question for everyone.

How would you differentiate the sexes through sexual dimoprhism then per race, without being called fully sexist?

If you need to ask that question you are already sexist.

Nope.

[Nomadiac]

I'm thinking the OP wants more diversity in body types to appeal to different standards of beauty. More BBW women for example, I think.

Sure. Why not? I'm fine with what there is, but variety is always good.

[Straw Nihilist]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Bones 6oS wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Well, long story short, adding more depth to video game beauty standards would be unpopular. In World of Warcraft'a beta Tauren and Troll women didn't have nearly as many features that tend to signify human beauty, but Blizzard changed them before the game was released because their fans demanded it.

Ah no. We don't want any of that historical perspective here. No sir.

We want steaming hot pregnant women that charge gloriously into battle.

.....
Just.
Take.
My.
Money.

This gives me another terrible idea:

A pregnant companion and LI! 

I'm giving you a blank cheque with my name on it, write a number on it and i will pay it!

[Lennard Testarossa]

Battlebloodmage wrote...
That has more to do with the Qunnari culture than the physical nature of the race.

Was this ever explicitly stated? If their sexual dimorphism is greater than that of say, humans, it might be entirely unreasonable for almost all of their females to assume combat roles.

[chuckles471]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I do have a question for everyone.

How would you differentiate the sexes through sexual dimoprhism then per race, without being called fully sexist?

State trends(that have been found through research) on the sexes of that race, and if the sexists and feminists don't like that...  tough, that's life.

But this being a fantasy world, it is up to the author what they look like.

Edit: add Masculists before people call me sexist.

Modifié par chuckles471, 27 février 2013 - 12:31 .

[Giant ambush beetle]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

 I feel like the female Qunnari are too thin, and the concept art is still conforming to the standard of beauty set by the Western civilization.

@ Battlebloodmage

I don't think the female Qunari is too thin, here, a real life example of a fit woman who has pretty much the same body build.

Modifié par The Woldan , 27 février 2013 - 12:42 .

[ObserverStatus]

Nomadiac wrote...
I'm thinking the OP wants more diversity in body types to appeal to different standards of beauty. More BBW women for example, I think.
Sure. Why not? I'm fine with what there is, but variety is always good.

You know, there's a perfectly legitimate reason why their aren't a lot of fat people in videogames.  In addition to the difficulties associated with the need to create equpiment that fits a larger variety of body types, excess body fat is actually pretty hard to realistically animate.

[nightscrawl]

duckley wrote...

Point Number one - although the picture is small - it looks like the Elves are slightly improved.

That's a DA2 concept piece, sorry.

[Battlebloodmage]

The Woldan wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

 I feel like the female Qunnari are too thin, and the concept art is still conforming to the standard of beauty set by the Western civilization.

@ Battlebloodmage

I don't think the female Qunari is too thin, here, a real life example of a fit women who has pretty much the same body build.

I guess I would have prefer for the female Qunnari to be thicker and buffer to differentiate the "barbarian" archetype character from muscular humans. The girl in your picture is buffed but more on a toned side. I'm not saying the female Qunnari should be male Qunnari with a wig, but at the same time, a less hourglass figured with real definite muscle would be nice. While the standard of beauty for male characters inf fantasy games are varied, the standard of beauty and look for female characters is usually very limited. I don't have a problem with the female qunnari model, I was just expecting something a bit different and a bit out of the norm, I suppose.