237 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

And doesn't "No chubby adventurers" pretty much throw out the entire dwarven race?

Also - I'd be far more worried about having some emaciated elf-like body form near me. The only reason those forms can pick up swords at all is because this is fantasy.

[Direwolf0294]

Looking at the OP's picture, I'm not really sure what he's complaining about. With both the males and females, you've got a pretty diverse range of body types. Qunari are tall and muscular, humans are average, not leaning too far into any extreme, elves are slender and dwarves are chuby. Then there's also all the added extras that are interesting to explore when it comes to beauty, such as horns, pointed ears and manly dwarven beards.

You could see them move away from those presets with unique character models with important characters. A super fat Qunari who sits around all day or something, but for the most part, because this is a video game and games have limits, the races are going to appear as shown in that picture, and I'm okay with that, because as I've said above, there's a pretty diverse range of body types already.

[metatheurgist]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@metatheurgist: Well - if you look at all the strongest men in the world - a great many of them are "fat". Of course - it's muscle under a fat padding - but they don't look at all like superheroes (well - maybe the hulk).

And there are different types of muscle - gym muscle is often blow up muscle. No real strength at all.

Laborers like farmers would be the musculature of many adventurers (at least the fighter types) and that often appears average though it is actually extraordinarily strong - while track and field/gymnasts would be the roguish build - and those mages really should be unhealthy.

I didn't see any exercise room in the Circle tower in Origins.

I'm pretty sure adventuring is an endurance sport, not a power sport. Adventurers are always walking from location to location, heaving pounds of gear, eating off the land, with regular bursts of cardio (also known as melee). Now, a bodyguard that just looks intimidating, spends most of his time at the tavern guzzling mead, and maybe swings his 250 pound sword once a day, would probably look like a power-lifter. Those mages aren't adventurers until they remove themselves from their cushy tower and start marching around the countryside. I don't doubt some off them would get nice and chubby in the tower, but that's because they're wimpy academics, not adventurers. And no, reading a book is not an adventure...

Duster_Brosca wrote...

Big warriors exist Volstagg ruled

Never said they didn't, but how many of them are adventuring, instead of lying about Odin's feast hall getting a good drunk on

Modifié par metatheurgist, 07 mars 2013 - 07:59 .

[Mike_Neel]

As a straight white man the industry has made it perfectly clear that my opinion is neither wanted nor valid when it comes to this subject. In fact my opinion may very well be taken as antagonistic when given. Sorry in advance.

I like attractive people but at the end of the day will always take more variety over less variety. That's just a given. If I could ask for any one thing it'd be a greater variety of age options instead of just having early to mid 20's aged looking playable character. I'd like to play as an older person from time to time.

[Medhia Nox]

@metatheurgist: When you say "adventuring" to you mean "exploring"?

The characters of Dragon Age: Origins or 2 didn't do anything but walk flat surfaces.

- A forest tends to not need mountain climbing gear.
- The Deep Roads and Thaigs were all flattened.
- The Circle Tower is just rooms and stairs (come to think of it - it IS a lot of stairs for those mages)
- Soldier's Peak - Denerim - Redcliff - battlefields - roads - etc. etc.

If you think those strong men couldn't walk up and down these terrains... I think you have a very limited view of what physically capable people really look like.

Note: They don't look like superheroes - that's a purely modern "social muscle" (muscle built for no real use other than appearance) convention.

[SpunkyMonkey]

I keep looking at the OP's picture and cringing. That art style loses all of what I loved about DA:O's grounded vibe.

[metatheurgist]

Medhia Nox wrote...
If you think those strong men couldn't walk up and down these terrains... I think you have a very limited view of what physically capable people really look like.

Note: They don't look like superheroes - that's a purely modern "social muscle" (muscle built for no real use other than appearance) convention.

There seems to be some confusion here. I said that I doubted adventurers would be chubby, I never said that they should look like the Hulk. I said they would probably be toned, not necessarily muscular.

[Barneyk]

Mike_Neel wrote...

As a straight white man the industry has made it perfectly clear that my opinion is neither wanted nor valid when it comes to this subject. In fact my opinion may very well be taken as antagonistic when given. Sorry in advance.

Is this some sort of sarcasm that I am unable to detect or what are you trying to say with this?

Straight white men 18-35 is THE demographic for video game devlopers.
Bioware is among the best companies in diversifiying their fanbase, but just look at the romance options in ME3 and you can see hoe skewed it really is.

Modifié par Barneyk, 08 mars 2013 - 12:36 .

[Chiramu]

What's funny is the OP talked about the women, but he didn't mention that the men are all ripped with muscles coming out of everywhere . Doesn't that make the male players feel inadequate? Oh I know, the OP must be a girl!

[Barneyk]

Chiramu wrote...

What's funny is the OP talked about the women, but he didn't mention that the men are all ripped with muscles coming out of everywhere . Doesn't that make the male players feel inadequate? Oh I know, the OP must be a girl!

1. If you would've bothered to read some more I talk about why I chose not to address the  male characters.
2. I am focusing on the diversity, the male characters are a lot more diverse than the female ones.
3. I am a man.

Modifié par Barneyk, 08 mars 2013 - 02:01 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Barneyk wrote...

Mike_Neel wrote...

As a straight white man the industry has made it perfectly clear that my opinion is neither wanted nor valid when it comes to this subject. In fact my opinion may very well be taken as antagonistic when given. Sorry in advance.

Is this some sort of sarcasm that I am unable to detect or what are you trying to say with this?

Straight white men 18-35 is THE demographic for video game devlopers.
Bioware is among the best companies in diversifiying their fanbase, but just look at the romance options in ME3 and you can see hoe skewed it really is.

Yeah  No really, my heart bleeds for this guy; he is so oppressed. 

[Barneyk]

motomotogirl wrote...

Yeah  No really, my heart bleeds for this guy; he is so oppressed.

lol, thanks for that, maybe I should try being less serious sometimes, it is more fun.

[mopotter]

This doesn't bother me. But, a height/weight body slider would be a nice way for each of my characters to look a little different, in addition to the normal options for character creation. Even the old republic has 4 different body types to choose from. But it's not a major concern for me.

[mopotter]

Mike_Neel wrote...

As a straight white man the industry has made it perfectly clear that my opinion is neither wanted nor valid when it comes to this subject. In fact my opinion may very well be taken as antagonistic when given. Sorry in advance.

I like attractive people but at the end of the day will always take more variety over less variety. That's just a given. If I could ask for any one thing it'd be a greater variety of age options instead of just having early to mid 20's aged looking playable character. I'd like to play as an older person from time to time.

One of the things I liked about Shepard is she was around 29 in ME1.  I don't mind 22-25 but I do like playing a character who has had a life and has some experience.  I enjoyed Hawke, and while a little aging would have been ok, my  grandparents both looked 20 years younger than their actual age so I don't mind characters looking young.  

I agree more variety is always a good thing.

[duckley]

I prefer to look at attractive men and women while I am playing video games, and I do not fit the standard demongraphic of game players. As far as I am concerned the body types are just fine. I really don't want too much reality in my fantasy.

Modifié par duckley, 10 mars 2013 - 05:49 .

[Barneyk]

duckley wrote...

I prefer to look at attractive men and women while I am playing video games, and I do not fit the standard demongraphic of game players. As far as I am concerned the body types are just fine. I really don't want too much reality in my fantasy.

If I understand you correctly, you agree that claiming to represent different standards of beauty is really incorrect here but it doesn't bother you at all, quite the opposite, you enjoy it?

[ShadyKat]

Well Bioware did change the way elves look, to make them look more alien and less human. And of course everyone hated the new look.

[Malanek]

Barneyk wrote...



How is it different standars of beauty when all the females are thin with big breasts and a well defined slim waist?

Really dissapointing to see Bioware not taking a better and more active stance with this...

These are not particularly big breasts. In fact they are average tending to slightly smaller than average. Yes, they are slim with the exception of the Dwarf, but why make any one representitive of their race in the concept art unfit?

[Pelle6666]

Since there are so many fat and unfit men in DA?

[Travie]

Personally, I like a woman who has an awkwardly long neck that deforms is she turns or lies on her side. Oh, and grandma hands! She has to have grandma hands!

[Warden Commander David]

Haha...classic.

[grumpymooselion]

Malanek999 wrote...

Barneyk wrote...



How is it different standars of beauty when all the females are thin with big breasts and a well defined slim waist?

Really dissapointing to see Bioware not taking a better and more active stance with this...

These are not particularly big breasts. In fact they are average tending to slightly smaller than average. Yes, they are slim with the exception of the Dwarf, but why make any one representitive of their race in the concept art unfit?

Worldwide A and B, as well as the smaller C, ranges are the most common if I remember the magazine article I read right. While larger C and up are not uncommon, anything above C drops in rarity significantly unless you counted augmented breasts. Sizes below A are not uncommon in grown women either, actually, AA cup sizes for example, despite what some movies and games would have you believe.

Personally I don't care what's average small or large, but I do sympathize with anyone that would like the option to not have their character's presence in the game world limited to 'large breasted female character #40858746655' though I don't really have a problem with larger than average either. I remember a note by the developers of Guild Wars 2, at one point, who noted the only thing that would really make their audience happy is a slider. And I can sort of agree with that, if it goes from the smallest realistically possible to the largest realistically possible - and you leave it wholly up to the player, rather than forcing them one way or another, then people get to decide for themselves. If everyone can decide for themselves, and nothing is forced, then everyone, I'd think, could finally be happy.

I'd extend that to male characters too, and other body options in both male and female characters - sliders for the body ranging from muscle mass, fat, height and so on. Basically more options. More options means less people forced into something they don't want, and less people complaining that, "wah wah wah I'm forced to play X" or "wah wah wah I'm forced to play Y" . . .


There will always be complaints no matter what you do though, so, meh.

[Barneyk]

Malanek999 wrote...

These are not particularly big breasts. In fact they are average tending to slightly smaller than average. Yes, they are slim with the exception of the Dwarf, but why make any one representitive of their race in the concept art unfit?

They are not particularly diverse either though, are they?
And in combination with their very slim waists, they are relatively quite big.

Again, my critique is not about the breasts being to big or whatever, my critique is the lack of diversity when diversity is the tag line.
If the line about "different standards of beauty" was not there, I would not have discussed that picture.

But when someone claims that it represents "different standards of beauty" while at the same time perpetuating the same old slim-waisted, big-breasted hourglass figure that has been seen as the ideal female body for quite a while now in our society, I have to point that out.

But I have explained this several times already.

[Nefario]

In fairness, it doesn't state "diverse standards of beauty". Diversity is not the tag line. Different is not the same as diverse. Oranges, tangerines, and clementines are different fruits. Oranges, grapes, and cantaloupes are diverse fruits.

[Malanek]

Janan Pacha wrote...

Worldwide A and B, as well as the smaller C, ranges are the most common if I remember the magazine article I read right. While larger C and up are not uncommon, anything above C drops in rarity significantly unless you counted augmented breasts. Sizes below A are not uncommon in grown women either, actually, AA cup sizes for example, despite what some movies and games would have you believe.

According to TIME magazine, the average breast size is now 36C. Those in the art are all smaller. Google it, other sourse are all over the place but overall seem to back that up, it differes from country to country, but with western countries and genetics (which is what this is based on) it is even higher. A lot of it comes down to the abundance of food especially while growing up. The real point is, the art does not overly sexualise anything. It does not warrant such a complaint.