170 réponses à ce sujet

[LorelynF]

Nicely done, Dorick.

[Xaijin]

Dorick wrote...

 Oh, it was me!

After the live stream I made a point that the Jugg was clearly OP and got flamed for it.
Someone called me out and asked that I post video proof he is OP, so here you go.

Here he is, same day on release, limited practice, E-Z mode solo:

www.youtube.com/watch


Notes*
Rest of the match to be uploaded overnight so I can keep playing
Match was 66 minutes on the 360 console
Failed my previous attempt on a later wave (dragoon round)

If bioware nerfs this kit, its totally justified, but at this point I can sympathize with those that want it to be OP just bc there will be no more DLC (Malzel). I get it! I also think this kit is very fun.

I was just really, really frustrated that no one wanted to admit this kit requires significantly less skill because it has distinct advantages and is not balanced. 

To all those posters from my Nerf thread suggesting that I get physically harmed or banned for my (acurate) opinion: Bite me. 

PS, if you have any question about the build, or about a working strategy, feel free to ask, I think I know this kit pretty well at this point.

My platinum build:
www.youtube.com/watch

**** off.

It's just as easy to solo platinum with sexbot or the Warlord, and if you have any level of skill, the CA.

The kit takes more skill than your average demolisher or destroyer or infiltrator.

[Dorick]

Caldari Ghost wrote...

Dorick wrote...

caldari, you dbl posted. Also, I counter argued Ares' post

thank you for pointing that out. I hate it when that happens.

I also checked out your n7 account, you really havent played this game very much. It can be hard for you to understand what Im experiencing with each kit bc ive maxed my weapons and gear to their final levels. The game is different when you havent finished unlocking everything. 

[Zero132132]

You're silly.

Want to see how a bad player handles the bastard on Platinum? I've run out of gels on Gold runs where there are actually other people present with this thing. Hit me up sometime.

[BACON4BREAKFAST]

I suppose if you can get a 10 headshot medal and still solo platinum it must be easy!

[Twinkles DeVere]

So the Juggernaut is tough! 

Weeeell.....he is a giant robit....and he is called the "Juggernaut".... Ummm... yeah. 

We all expected this guy to be tanky with great survivability. That's his job, his M.O. Give it a few days though and let people experiment with his damage output over the other classes we have and see whether he's really going to outscore everything else (i.e. is truly OP), or if he's just good at staying alive. (I'm sure some of you already have opinions on this...)

The bottom line for me is.... Sooooo much fun to be had with this character! Which happens to be the entire point of playing this game. For me anyway. Leave it be Biower, just for a few weeks at least, pls?

OP - Nice solo, well done dude.

[Dorick]

Xaijin wrote...

Dorick wrote...

 Oh, it was me!

After the live stream I made a point that the Jugg was clearly OP and got flamed for it.
Someone called me out and asked that I post video proof he is OP, so here you go.

Here he is, same day on release, limited practice, E-Z mode solo:

www.youtube.com/watch


Notes*
Rest of the match to be uploaded overnight so I can keep playing
Match was 66 minutes on the 360 console
Failed my previous attempt on a later wave (dragoon round)

If bioware nerfs this kit, its totally justified, but at this point I can sympathize with those that want it to be OP just bc there will be no more DLC (Malzel). I get it! I also think this kit is very fun.

I was just really, really frustrated that no one wanted to admit this kit requires significantly less skill because it has distinct advantages and is not balanced. 

To all those posters from my Nerf thread suggesting that I get physically harmed or banned for my (acurate) opinion: Bite me. 

PS, if you have any question about the build, or about a working strategy, feel free to ask, I think I know this kit pretty well at this point.

My platinum build:
www.youtube.com/watch

**** off.

It's just as easy to solo platinum with sexbot or the Warlord, and if you have any level of skill, the CA.

The kit takes more skill than your average demolisher or destroyer or infiltrator.

I havent tried a solo with any of them, but I do know that none of those kits have sync kill immunity. I suspect the sexbot is OP. Idk about the warlord or ca. 

If the Geth Jugg takes as much skill for you to use as the demolisher, destroyer or any infiltrator, then you need practice. Jugg is literally just point and shoot, then drop a turret. No getting grabbed, rarely breaking shields. 

[Dorick]

Zero132132 wrote...

You're silly.

Want to see how a bad player handles the bastard on Platinum? I've run out of gels on Gold runs where there are actually other people present with this thing. Hit me up sometime.

Im on the 360: Dorick

[Wolf610]

Dorick wrote...

Wolf610 wrote...

I earned a gold revive medal off of two in a Condor/Reapers/Gold match, revived another 7 times in a Vancouver/Collectors/Silver match, and have been picking them up all day. I say buff him, he's too weak. **Disclaimer: that was sarcasm**

Player skill =/= Overpowered Kit

I've been reviving Juggernauts all day. That's the evidence I need to say noobs with no skills won't be soloing a damn thing with him.

its bc the jugg makes a player overconfident, and they err. 

The community has to practice the extent of the Jugg's dps/survivability balance. 

also, bad players doesnt mean the jugg is balanced. 

Exactly, and being a good player doesn't mean he's overpowered. You still have to learn how to play the kit to make it work.

Also, no, the Jugg is in no way balance, Collectors light him up on any difficulty that isn't bronze. I've farmed collectors for a couple hours and Jugg's don't play well with them.

But whatever, it's your opinion and I doubt there is a single thing I could say that would change your mind, much like my opinion of him won't be swayed except by my own actions. That being said, congrats on the Plat/solo with him, an hour of that couldn't have been easy, I'd have gotten bored:lol:

[Caldari Ghost]

Dorick wrote...

Caldari Ghost wrote...

Dorick wrote...

caldari, you dbl posted. Also, I counter argued Ares' post

thank you for pointing that out. I hate it when that happens.

I also checked out your n7 account, you really havent played this game very much. It can be hard for you to understand what Im experiencing with each kit bc ive maxed my weapons and gear to their final levels. The game is different when you havent finished unlocking everything. 

http://social.biowar...t&platform=xbox

http://social.biowar...t&platform=xbox
 
not to seem hostile, just letting you know: I have been playing MP since launch. yes I never have enough medigel (for shame)
meh

edit: I see why you say he should be nerfed. knowing how to use him is much easier than knowing how to use a geth infiltrator.

Modifié par Caldari Ghost, 27 février 2013 - 10:51 .

[HolyAvenger]

Dorick wrote...
 Jugg is literally just point and shoot, then drop a turret. No getting grabbed, rarely breaking shields. 

So is any kit that stays out of sync kill range.

[Zero132132]

Dorick wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

You're silly.

Want to see how a bad player handles the bastard on Platinum? I've run out of gels on Gold runs where there are actually other people present with this thing. Hit me up sometime.

Im on the 360: Dorick

I know. You're on my friends list, actually. I used to be Ethereal235, but I changed. Won't be on until tomorrow night, but I'll message you or something if you're in a game.

[Ares Caesar]

Dorick wrote...
ok:

1. "So because its one of the easier kits to solo with, its "overpowered"??? " 
Yes.

-And yet we still have every Infiltrator, Kroguard, and Geth Soldier. (these are just the "easy ones" not the fastest)

2. You cant say this kit isnt OP on account of him not being able to nuke spaws. You've also clearly oversold how easily the other players will be clearing spawns, not on platinum sir. Not when 3 primes spawn on jade. Not when banshees, engineers, and phantoms spawn together. 
-3 Primes + 1 Cobra Missle = approx 2 seconds. (Throw in some grenade classes, or Piranha/Harrier/Claymore/Wraith/Hurricane/PPR/Reegar Infiltrators and you've got a decent 2nd place to a Cobra Missile).

3. Getting grabbed isnt time efficient. Geth jugg only kit that doesnt get grabbed. 
-If you're getting grabbed (considering the widespread public knowledge regarding sync-kills and how to avoid/prevent entirely) you're not very good, unlucky, or greedy. Sync-kills certainly deter overly aggressive action and can sway time efficiency towards the Geth Jugs favor, but not to the point it even remotely compares to any high DPS (burst or sustained) class.

4. "The Geth Jug. is only overpowered if you define "overpowered" by the ability to do something"
That's my definition. 
-So we'll now have newbies who can play Gold and not die every 5 seconds, but still score only 30k points while everyone else has 100k+ in a Gold match? Ok, sounds quite overpowered. Great players are only more limited by the movement speed and lack of damage boosting abilities. You seem to define "overpowered" by the floor potential which I'll admit is probably right up there with some of the best classes, but the ceiling potential is nowhere near the top tier classes. The difference is simply that bad players will be slightly less bad, while good players will be worse.

5. Except I dont play for credits, I play for the challenge of the game. You are essentially saying he's not OP bc he doesnt earn money as fast. Which is obviously debatable, but more importantly has nothing to do with player skill and the balance of a kit compared to the rest of the kits. 
-If you really wanted a "challenge" it would be
how fast you could complete games... especially at this point. Everyone
has already proven that many classes can win "wars of attrition" in solos, what has been much harder for people to replicate is the speed in completing them. Considering we've already seen Platinum games completed with level 1 characters and the common weapons, I hardly think the ability to complete Gold/Platinum games in average times is noteworthy.

Happy? I wasted my time arguing w u. 
-No, its me who has wasted my time. Dont worry, I wont bother with another response, because I've already seen the error of my ways (debating on the internet is futile... especially when doing so with those who are oblivious).

[Dorick]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Dorick wrote...
 Jugg is literally just point and shoot, then drop a turret. No getting grabbed, rarely breaking shields. 

So is any kit that stays out of sync kill range.

Which even the best players fail to do sometimes bc it takes a great deal of skill to control so much pressure on platinum. Jugg just stands there. Mebbe decides to use heavy melee if shields are going down too much. Will never fail a solo due to a grab, will never sit out of a round due to grab. 

[moortenson]

This game is not built around soloing. The Jugg is just too slow to accomplish much with a team, which is what this game is about. If you nerf him, he will be absolutely useless.

[HolyAvenger]

Dorick wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Dorick wrote...
 Jugg is literally just point and shoot, then drop a turret. No getting grabbed, rarely breaking shields. 

So is any kit that stays out of sync kill range.

Which even the best players fail to do sometimes bc it takes a great deal of skill to control so much pressure on platinum. Jugg just stands there. Mebbe decides to use heavy melee if shields are going down too much. Will never fail a solo due to a grab, will never sit out of a round due to grab. 

Disagree. Plat still only has 8 enemies on the field at any time, makes kiting pretty straightforward. Jugg still has to use RHA and kite (I clutched a gold Cerb wave with him last night, had a slow-off with 2 Atlases, was tedious as f*ck). I fail more solo attempts running out of gels thanks to bad objectives/terrible spawns etc than I ever do to sync-kills.


Sync-kill immunity and high shielding simply makes the Jugg survivable, with a less difficult learning curve. It certainly is not game-breakingly OP like the Fembot is.

[billy the squid]

HolyAvenger wrote...

I think he's on the same level as a Reegar Kroguard or Harrier TGI. Powerful, easy to play, but not gamebreakingly so.


...Fembot on the other hand...

I'd say the Jugger is probably  on a par with those two, in some respects. Icredibly tough, but sooooo slow. No cover, no run, can't even use soft cover effectively as he doesn't have a dodge. I think he's very useful for drawing a spawn's attention, so an asset to a team if the hack is out of the way draw all the attention to you. You're tough enough to take it anyway.

I think Kits like the Jugger, TGI, Kroguard, Warlord, Geth Trooper. Are all very powerful, but it's only when players start to get high lvl URs do they start to creep into OP spheres a bit. Jugger has so heafty drawbacks. I think people are saying he's OP because he can shrug off most things, but given he can't actually avoid them he'd suck if he couldn't!

[MrScottBear]

The Juggernaut is OP in no way shape or form. Yes, he's very survivable, but his damage output is quite low. Fair tradeoff.

[Dorick]

@ares

1. I've been pro nerf for those kits as well. Geth Jugg is a newer kit with even tankier shields and sync kill immunity, the level of skill required to played just dropped again.

2. Lol! I could be wrong but Im pretty sure 3 prime never spawn side by side, only two. So no, not going to take 2 seconds. The third prime will be split into a second spawn area. Again, unless you've set up for a speed run, you are clearly overselling how good players are at nuke spawning. The kit placement, kit, and map all play a serious role. You dont go into a normal game and come out frowny face bc all your teammates were having a wild time blowing up spawns.

3. Sync kills are the AI's way of having control of your actions as you play by determing what you can do without losing. Not only does that not apply to Jugg, but you are guaranteed to never have your solo come to an abrupt end bc of one mistake out of an entire, often very tiring and long match. I guess I'm bad bc I get grabbed and "good" players dont? No, the truth is you are trying to discredit what is obviously a big advantage of the Jugg.

4. There are clearly different criteria for OP. In this situation, Jugg is OP based on his game mechanics in comparison to the other kits. He cant get grabbed, you can set him up for 7k shields. Has two shield return moves, and stagger resistence, and can make his own cover. And no, lacking a run or dodge does NOT balance these advantages. Kit could use a nerf, but I'm not asking for one, it would just be nice that people could acknowledge that he is OP in comparison to many other kits.

5. I think speedruns get dry and boring fast, they are highly calculated and planned out. More interesting is to be in a difficult situation that requires extensive gamer skills to get out of. That's what I mean by challenge. I play to develop a deeper understanding of the mechanics, and to apply my player skills in different settings. My point is that this character's game mechanics give him an unfair advantage when you compare him to more average kits. Since I like the Jugg and I like the MP, I personally would prefer a nerf. Probably to his damage reduction option in siege pulse.

-Frankly all the bitterness has made me much more controversial than i act in real life. But my beliefs regarding this kit remain the same.

[ShadowHound]

So I good player means the kit is over powered and with a dev player the Geth Juggernaut is invincible?

[Dorick]

MrScottBear wrote...

The Juggernaut is OP in no way shape or form. Yes, he's very survivable, but his damage output is quite low. Fair tradeoff.

Hey scottybear. 

I agree his output isnt amazing, but I hardly think that balances his survivability. 

[Schachmatt123]

Dorick wrote...

MrScottBear wrote...

The Juggernaut is OP in no way shape or form. Yes, he's very survivable, but his damage output is quite low. Fair tradeoff.

Hey scottybear. 

I agree his output isnt amazing, but I hardly think that balances his survivability. 

His survivability ends on wave 10 and 11 platinum.

[Dorick]

Zero132132 wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

You're silly.

Want to see how a bad player handles the bastard on Platinum? I've run out of gels on Gold runs where there are actually other people present with this thing. Hit me up sometime.

Im on the 360: Dorick

I know. You're on my friends list, actually. I used to be Ethereal235, but I changed. Won't be on until tomorrow night, but I'll message you or something if you're in a game.

Ah! Boy i could accidently delete you, I never have enough room on my friends list and constantly delete names I dont remember. 

You gotta send me a msg when you change names!

[Dorick]

Schachmatt wrote...

Dorick wrote...

MrScottBear wrote...

The Juggernaut is OP in no way shape or form. Yes, he's very survivable, but his damage output is quite low. Fair tradeoff.

Hey scottybear. 

I agree his output isnt amazing, but I hardly think that balances his survivability. 

His survivability ends on wave 10 and 11 platinum.

I had 5 out of 6 gel at the end of my solo run, so no. 

[Schachmatt123]

Dorick wrote...

Schachmatt wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Hey scottybear. 

I agree his output isnt amazing, but I hardly think that balances his survivability. 

His survivability ends on wave 10 and 11 platinum.

I had 5 out of 6 gel at the end of my solo run, so no. 

And I was out of gel at the end of my games, so yes.

Modifié par Schachmatt, 27 février 2013 - 11:28 .