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Creativity with the Cabal (some build testing, let's get this feisty lady figured)


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#126
Wakizashi.Sabre

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Xyrm wrote...

MP-Ryan wrote...

I don't know if PS can detonate tech/fire explosions. Has someone tested this?


It can.  It is a universal detonator just like charge.

EDIT:

To those running 6/0/6/6/6 builds, I tried one yesterday and it ended HORRIBLY.  I've played lots of novaguard on gold/plat successfully, but I couldn't even solo wave 1 silver.  I figured I messed up my spec somehow, so for those who HAVE played it on gold/plat well, can you help me out?  I really want to avoid grenades because the friends I play with usually like grenade users.

The evo's I chose were as follows:

PS:  Range, Recharge, Poison
BF:  Damage Taken, Melee, Heightened Focus
Passive:  Power Damage for the first two and weapon for the last
Gauntlets:  All melee

PS: 4a(4b could be good too if used more as evade, I like to be agressive with ps though),5a,6a(dmg specced))
BF: 4a(dmg reduction),5b(last long enough),6(barrier replenish)
Fitness VG: 4b,5a(when at least bit of melee, I prefer this over shield recharge speed)),6a(melee and weapon dmg boost-just a preference)
TV:4b(cd and power dmg), 5a(power dmg),6b (all weapon dmg-if you are fan of harrier for her,6a could be nice too, i prefer dmg usually)

Hope it helps. Used to play gold ond ok with it. Though, i have not tried other alternatives, specially blades... but i dislike idea of grenade capacity.

Modifié par Wakizashi.Sabre, 28 février 2013 - 11:17 .


#127
Stonebo1t

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Any tips for taking out phantoms on Gold +? I'm running 06666 and find after the grenade/heavy melee/shield strip I need to dodge to avoid return fire and am just getting taken down a bit too easily if I don't back pedal to keep distance.
Heard lots of targetting issues with poison strike - is it actually good for phantoms? Or should I start packing an ultralight scorpion to go with my hurricane???
Want to keep recharge low as I love spamming biotic focus....

#128
MP-Ryan

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OK, now trying a respec, still 46664, but with range on PS and explosive damage on blades. See how it goes.

#129
MP-Ryan

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Stonebo1t wrote...

Any tips for taking out phantoms on Gold +? I'm running 06666 and find after the grenade/heavy melee/shield strip I need to dodge to avoid return fire and am just getting taken down a bit too easily if I don't back pedal to keep distance.
Heard lots of targetting issues with poison strike - is it actually good for phantoms? Or should I start packing an ultralight scorpion to go with my hurricane???
Want to keep recharge low as I love spamming biotic focus....


PS AFTER firing NB works on Phantoms.

Trouble with Hurricane - and I use it too - is that it is terrible against Phantoms on-host.  The freakin' DR from their flips makes them nigh-impossible to kill with that weapon without getting flattened by the palm cannon first.  Other vanguards at least have charge, but Biotic Focus doesn't save you from the palm blaster from hell.

I'm seriously thinking of adding a Scorpion or acolyte to my Cabal as well, but I hate to drop her cooldown, it makes her more vulnerable.

#130
crashmatusow

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Stonebo1t wrote...

Any tips for taking out phantoms on Gold +? I'm running 06666 and find after the grenade/heavy melee/shield strip I need to dodge to avoid return fire and am just getting taken down a bit too easily if I don't back pedal to keep distance.
Heard lots of targetting issues with poison strike - is it actually good for phantoms? Or should I start packing an ultralight scorpion to go with my hurricane???
Want to keep recharge low as I love spamming biotic focus....


blades + poison strike. I'm not sure she can block cabal's powers (they certainly don't seem to trigger bubble.)

#131
born2beagator

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Can you hit enemies with PS by going straight through them? it sure seems like that If I go straight through them it never hits, but if I got a little to the left or right it does.

#132
Learn To Love Yourself

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born2beagator wrote...

Can you hit enemies with PS by going straight through them? it sure seems like that If I go straight through them it never hits, but if I got a little to the left or right it does.

Yes, but I hear it is sometimes buggy.  I usually strike straight through single targets.  A good way to tell is to equip Incendiary Ammo and listen for the FE.

#133
born2beagator

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Jack Crapper wrote...

born2beagator wrote...

Can you hit enemies with PS by going straight through them? it sure seems like that If I go straight through them it never hits, but if I got a little to the left or right it does.

Yes, but I hear it is sometimes buggy.  I usually strike straight through single targets.  A good way to tell is to equip Incendiary Ammo and listen for the FE.


Well, its ALWAYS buggy for me.  I cannot hit enemies when I go straight through them.  IMO PS needs an AOE evolution badly.

#134
Hiero Glyph

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MP-Ryan wrote...

OK, now trying a respec, still 46664, but with range on PS and explosive damage on blades. See how it goes.


Yeah, keep us informed.

From my testing this seems like it will be the optimal build given that Fitness rank 5b is outclassed by Biotic Focus's rank 6a.  While Fitness Rank 6b is nice, Poison Strike does have its uses for detonating combos.  I have tried a PS-less build and am currently messing with a NB-less one (too many grenade users right now), but feel that a hybrid might still be the best way to go.  Something like 4(B) / 6(a,a,B) / 6(a,b,a) / 6(b,a,B) / 4(B) perhaps.

The only other issue is that I love the Geth Scanner on her but would like additional grenade capacity.  Still, with a Raider she is pretty boss so maybe Shocktrooper ftw!

Modifié par Hiero Glyph, 01 mars 2013 - 03:26 .


#135
HEEGZ

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 Well, just topped a platinum match with 185k points and had a blast with her. I'm tweaking my build again to account for better biotic explosions with Poison Strike. Here's the new build:

http://narida.pytalh...enadeCapacity5/

Modifié par HEEGZ, 01 mars 2013 - 06:12 .


#136
ajburges

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I'm thinking 6bbb/4b/6a?a/6a?b/4b

> I find myself wanting BF post PS way too often.
> PS is a good team detonator power so it needs to be rank 6
> BF mitigates the need for rank 5 fitness
> Blades are to stagger and paralyize phantoms, not damage
> Turrian passive screams for abuse

Modifié par ajburges, 01 mars 2013 - 06:56 .


#137
Grotaiche

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OK, small feedback after a few Silver solos last night ! This is the build I used ; a couple of warnings before you take it litterally :
  • the actual cooldown is 180% because of the "no added weight" glitch from the weapon mods.
  • the second weapon mod on the Acolyte is Melee Stunner but I put the scope here because the melee stunner would hide the 50% buff of the Eviscerator's Omni-Blade. You have to know that the melee mods only boost the melee dmg of the weapon you are currently carrying.
  • the base health value is wrong, it's 500 not 750 (I've notified Narida L), so the number should be 800, not 1200.
I ended up fighting Collectors or Reapers and died very quickly because of the squishiness. BF is fine and all but it is difficult to withstand fire from 2-3 mooks at the same time without dying or using an Ops Pack. That was expected so I used a Cyclonic Mod I and ran out of medgel on wave 6 or 7. Not too shabby, especially against Collectors ; I think the Cabal can definitely hold her own in a team game on Gold with Cyclonic III or IV.
Also, for each game, I forgot to put on Incendiary Ammo as I originally planned, so I wasn't able to detonate Fire Explosions :( Next time !

Fun fact : the heavy melee beheads mooks. Very useful against Abominations since this won't trigger their explosions when they die. Also, because they are squishy, it gives easy fodder for the Martial Artist ability.

DragonRacer wrote...

Like I mentioned previously, I've
only played one Gold game with her so far, but I treated her very much
like a fighter jet - I'd leave some poison DOT on the big bosses to help
soften them up (hit 'em with blades, then strike through, then bounce
off to the next target) and focused more on taking out the smaller mooks
that were shooting my teammates (strike through, turn around, hit 'em
with blades to stagger, then heavy melee/light melee combo for the
kills). I'd mop up afterwards with the Hurricane as needed.

This is what I tried to do, except that I used melee so much more than the blades. I'm not used to the blades yet. They are awesome on bosses (Scions, Brutes, etc...) though. But yeah, the nice DoT works wonders on mooks (Cannibals, Marauders, Collector Troopers or Captains, etc...) and I regret I forgot my Incendiary Ammo :P
But yeah, that's how I played her : BF, melee, shoot, run away to safety with PS (sometimes through enemies for added damage, sometimes not). The biggedt thing here is to be aware of the map. Where should you go ? Any wall you can go through ? If so, what's behind that wall ? Will you end up exposed ? etc... Kinda risky, in some situations I ended up using a Spec Ops because I ran into more mooks :happy:

MP-Ryan wrote...

Aha, I see the disconnect :). Aside from
one Silver solo game, all my testing has been on Gold. One game
(off-host) against Reapers, the rest hosting against Cerberus - mostly
because they exemplify the biggest threats (ultra powerful single shot
attacks, fast-firing mooks).

The trouble with Phantoms is mostly
because of the speed of the palm blasting and enemy tracking on Gold.
If you want, try soloing a couple rounds of Gold Cerberus without gear
and see what I'm talking about. Wave 4 completion will give you the
full demonstration. Doesn't have to be solo, but it's easiest to
test.

Yes, I understand what you mean but the main problem is really the squishiness of the Cabal and the shields/barriers. Hence the Acolyte and the Cyclonic Mod. Actually, I only used the Acolyte for bosses like Praetorians/Banshees, but it can be good against groups of Marauders on Gold. Also, with Incendiary Ammo, Acolyte will apply the fire effect  to the whole group. More synergy for PS !

MP-Ryan wrote...

@Severyx

Glad I'm not the only one
having issues with enemies and their insta-lock nonsense. Really, I
don't know what good mobility is if it disorients us but doesn't faze
enemies at all.

This is a big issue I had too. The camera lags a bit after a heavy melee or PS, which is cool and all, but enemies are not affected by this and retaliate very quickly, making the fight more difficult than it should be.
Another bug I faced was when I heavy melee'd things on slopes or stairs. This will often fail for some reason. Also, the camera will be completely messed up, and the melee animation will end by you looking at the sky or your feet (no exaggeration here, test it for yourself, it's very annoying).

MP-Ryan wrote...

PS AFTER firing NB works on Phantoms.

Trouble
with Hurricane - and I use it too - is that it is terrible against
Phantoms on-host.  The freakin' DR from their flips makes them
nigh-impossible to kill with that weapon without getting flattened by
the palm cannon first.  Other vanguards at least have charge, but Biotic
Focus doesn't save you from the palm blaster from hell.

I'm
seriously thinking of adding a Scorpion or acolyte to my Cabal as well,
but I hate to drop her cooldown, it makes her more vulnerable.

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Acolyte is a great option. At level X, it's only 20% cooldown and you can reduce it to 10% by using Ultralight Materials V. It can deplete the shields/barriers for groups of mooks (amazing against Collectors) and applies ammo effects quite well. I am sure I have yet to learn how to use it correctly with the Cabal but I believe it's a great choice. Try it if you can and tell us ! :)

Sorry for the long post but I love this character sooo much ^_^

#138
Calgac

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I had loads of fun playing with this char last night! I ran with the scorpion and have specced her pretty much for melee. Fire a couple of scorpion shots then charge/strike through them then turn and watch them either die to the poison or explode :) Much fun! I love fast mobile characters and, while I originally didn't think DoTs were particularly effective in this fast paced game I actually do love the poison aspect to her. She's my fave Reckoning char so far.

#139
Deerber

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I am starting to get the hang of her. When I find a setup I'm finally happy with I'll make a solo and post a video. I also discovered some possible issues with her dodge and with biotic shield, I'll keep an eye on them.

#140
KalilKareem

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I was having lots of problems last night (off host) with powers just not working at all. Standing in front of a pair of mauarders mashing the NB button for 2 seconds straight before behind slaughtered gets old mighty fast... Anyone else seen this with her, or was I just being extra-double-plus laggy?

#141
Geist.H

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4/6/6/6/4

_Range on PS, use it to move around and detonate stuff or set yourself up for NB.

_ Dmg/Range/Explosion on NB, for cc&reliable dmg output.

_ Protection/Duration/Shield, the shield perk is awesome to survive that split second you need to wait for PS's cooldown.

Weapon used: Talon with Power Mod/Barrel and AP ammunition to keep CD low and benefit from her great weapon dmg/stability stats.

I was having lots of problems last night (off host) with powers just not
working at all. Standing in front of a pair of mauarders mashing the NB
button for 2 seconds straight before behind slaughtered gets old mighty
fast... Anyone else seen this with her, or was I just being
extra-double-plus laggy?


She is unplayable when the host is poor, your PS dashes rubber-band back to starting point, NB hits fail to register half of the time and the slightest amount of stagger will get you killed which is what happen when all skill fail to register despite being off-cooldown.

Modifié par Geist.H, 01 mars 2013 - 11:10 .


#142
Vic7im

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http://narida.pytalh...enadeCapacity5/

This is my "hypothetical" build (0/6/6/6/6). Since Poison Strike is useless to me, there's no need speccing into it. (besides, you can always sidestep-dodge instead of teleporting ahead)

The second build is http://narida.pytalh...enadeCapacity5/

(3/6/6/5/6). Scorpion is good for cc'ing and the hurricane mixed with turian passives can do a lot of damage.

Modifié par Vic7im, 01 mars 2013 - 11:14 .


#143
KalilKareem

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I am not at home now, so I cant test for myself; but does poison strike have the same interaction with chargeup weapons as biotic charge does?

#144
Geist.H

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Poison Strike hits for respectable damages (slight over 1k with hybrid build) and detonates biotics/techs while opening up somecrafty map navigation shortcuts with the range perk. I wouldn't call it useless.

Modifié par Geist.H, 01 mars 2013 - 11:25 .


#145
Guest_Air Quotes_*

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My build. 

The idea is to rush a spawn, fire Nightshade Blades, fire your werapon with Incendiary ammo to prime enemies, then Poison Strike for detonations and after that, either Poison Strike again to escape or attack some more, or activate Biotic Focus to regen some shields and keep shooting. 

Works okay, and I will try a Platinum solo soon with it. 

#146
Dr. Tim Whatley

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This is the build I finally decided to use in a game.

Pretty much used her as a mobile soldier with BF spam and NBs for groups and bosses, and it worked pretty well. I don't recall using PS at all, since it just seems a little off.

It did get kinda boring though and I'm considering switching up to a melee build. If the class builder is right, those heavy melee numbers look insane when coupled with a shotgun omni-blade.

I've never played a melee centric build on anything yet, so I need to do some experimenting.

#147
Grotaiche

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b00g13man wrote...

It did get kinda boring though and I'm considering switching up to a melee build. If the class builder is right, those heavy melee numbers look insane when coupled with a shotgun omni-blade.

I've never played a melee centric build on anything yet, so I need to do some experimenting.

She's not exactly the easiest character to melee with because of her squishiness, but probably the most fun I've used :P I agree with you about the numbers, they look insanely off once you have triggered Martial Artist and Biotic Focus.

Also, I have a question : the Venom Gauntlets description states that 30% of the melee damage is applied as Poison Damage. What does it mean ? Is there some DoT ? This is something I haven't checked last night and I was wondering what it meant.

Modifié par Grotaiche, 01 mars 2013 - 04:05 .


#148
Severyx

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So today I scored top three games in a row, even against geth juggs using my 6/0/6/6/6 build.

I've been sticking to one build alone, because quickly swapping builds to test viability does NOT allow for mastery. I test on silver because that's the level where good builds/top tier scoring classes murder everything, and getting above those is a game-long battle.

Even with the current tracking/auto-target/PS issues, I was still able to come out on top because I was INCREDIBLY mobile and VERY aggressive. Spatial awareness is a HUGE must for this sort of build, as it's all about PSing around, heavy-meleeing things and dodging out of line of sight to break tracking before PSing back in to ruin everyone's day. Using the topography of the map is ABSOLUTELY essential, as this WILL be the life or death decider in almost every game. Anyone who has PS'd into a room full of heavy enemy units knows how that ends.

I also found that PSing through an enemy can still hit you (I've seen the claims, but haven't confirmed this until today). I PS'd through an Atlas as he was doing his melee to hit a teammate, and when I popped out the other side, I lost my barrier and staggered forward even though I didn't land anywhere near the Atlas.

Knowing how to properly dodge out of a messy situation has proven just as key as BF restoring barrier (Evo 6A). Firebase Giant is a great place to practice this, as it has a LOT of thin walls that can easily separate you from the three hunters and two pyros closing on your position while in the middle of cooldown. I find that I have to hold the directional key down through the whole dodge, otherwise my cabal just literally dodges in place and goes nowhere. Odd. Also, does anyone find forward dodges to be... dodgey in their execution? It seems way more reliable to dodge to the side even if it means turning and then dodging to get the right direction.


ANYHOW. My survivability goes up with each match I play, since I'm continually mastering how to use this build/class. Like any great ninja, know when to get out. :D

#149
Severyx

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Grotaiche wrote...
Also, I have a question : the Venom Gauntlets description states that 30% of the melee damage is applied as Poison Damage. What does it mean ? Is there some DoT ? This is something I haven't checked last night and I was wondering what it meant.


Think of it this way: The Cabal has the highest melee damage of all the classes, but only 70% of that damage is instant (when you slash at them). The remaining 30% of that damage is applied over the DoT of the poison the melee stuffs on the enemy.

Always remember: Poison stacks. Use that to your advantage.

#150
xija

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last night I tried a melee build... and man was it fun. The key is to constantly spam BF to keep your shields up and to teleport back when needed. I was having a blast teasing pyros by heavy meleeing forward, then teleporting back before they can fire back. also with a melee build once you drop the phantom's shields you can bring her down with a heavy melee with no problem. Overall it was a lot of spazzing, running around heavy meleeing everything while spamming BF. :]