215 réponses à ce sujet

[Faffnr]

The city elves (especially Shianni) sound distinctly Canadian. I live in close proximity to Canada and know many Canadians.

[darkshadow136]

soteria wrote...

Don't forget, there's like 4 or 5 different Irish accents as well. I know a few Dubliners who can't even understand someone from Cork. Munster is distinct as well.

On a side note, I think Americans more than Brits tend to lump accents together because we don't get exposed to so many different ones. You can drive all day in the US and still hear everyone speaking with essentially the same generic US accent. In the UK and Ireland the accents are much more diverse in a smaller area.

Darth Obvious, please don't speak for all of us. I call it an English accent.

I understand what you mean my family is originally from Ireland county cork and county keel if I wrote the last one right. My grandparents came from Ireland and I could understand her accent but some of my other relatives from a different area in Ireland I was a bit lost at times.

[Darth Obvious]

darkshadow136 wrote...

Well I know this thread was just to get a rise out of people.

That could not be further from the truth.

The reason I made this thread was make note of the fact that the humans in Ferelden tend to speak with a British accent, while the Elves tend to speak with an American accent. It is a salient difference that I thought might generate an interesting discussion.

Instead, someone got offended that Americans use the term 'British', despite the fact that we Americans have been using it for well over two centuries(!). Seems so trivial to most of us, but there it is...

[Eleinehmm]

darkshadow136 wrote...

Well I know this thread was just to get a rise out of people. In dragon age the elves lost their war to the humans. In the revolutionary war the Americans drove out the English. Draw you own conclusions on that note.

Other than that the parallel you drew here is so wrong. If anything the war with the elves for represents the knights templer crusades in the holy land under the leadership of the Pope or revered mother so to speak. Since the elves would not worship and bow to the chantry and the maker and stop worshiping their own gods. The humans took their land and raped and killed many of them. That would have been a much better comparison.

English and Americans from the beginning were the same people not a different race. One just wanted their Independence from the crown and one was loyal to the crown. So know you history a bit before drawing comparisons like that. .

I agree that there is no comparison between real world US-UK history and Elves and Humans situation in the game, but I am a little bit startled by your description of  the Thirteen Colonies-UK  relations.

Are you trying to say that there were no loyalists in the US?  I would say it is an oversimplification.

P.S  And sorry if I am being rude but, what is the point of this sentence?

darkshadow136 wrote...
Anyway England and America are friends now as far as I know.

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 12 janvier 2010 - 06:26 .

[darkshadow136]

Eleinehmm wrote...

darkshadow136 wrote...

Well I know this thread was just to get a rise out of people. In dragon age the elves lost their war to the humans. In the revolutionary war the Americans drove out the English. Draw you own conclusions on that note.

Other than that the parallel you drew here is so wrong. If anything the war with the elves for represents the knights templer crusades in the holy land under the leadership of the Pope or revered mother so to speak. Since the elves would not worship and bow to the chantry and the maker and stop worshiping their own gods. The humans took their land and raped and killed many of them. That would have been a much better comparison.

English and Americans from the beginning were the same people not a different race. One just wanted their Independence from the crown and one was loyal to the crown. So know you history a bit before drawing comparisons like that. .

I agree that there is no comparison between real world US-UK history and Elves and Humans situation in the game, but I am a little bit startled by your description of  the Thirteen Colonies-UK  relations.

Are you trying to say that there were no loyalists in the US?  I would say it is an oversimplification.

P.S  And sorry If I am rude but, what is the point of this sentence?

darkshadow136 wrote...
Anyway England and America are friends now as far as I know.

Sure there was loyalists in America during and most likely after the revolutionay war. I was trying to get to the point were you couldn't make the comparrison  between elves= America, and Human= England. Not to treach a full history on the subject. My last statement was that England and America were friends and alies now. where in the dragon age world the elves are still bitter against the humans and so on. I should have elaborated that point better I guess.

[Darth Obvious]

Prosthetics511 wrote...

I can see the nobility of Ferelden, and members of the empire (armed forces and what not) speak what I kind of classify as real english. That means they want to speak to be clearly understood, no slurring or merging of words, unlike what is often the case in the US, where words are merged and slurred to speak quickly, etc etc.

That makes no sense. In the standard accent of American English, we pronounce words like 'saw' without the 'r' at the end (since there is no 'r' at the end). Yet I hear British people adding r's left and right (e.g. "I sawr a film today, oh boy."). That is just one example that easily disproves your analysis, and there are plenty more. My specialties are in Latin and Greek roots, but these are precisely the kinds of things we look at in the field of linguistics.

It is of note, however, that certain regional American accents (the southern accent and the Boston accent come to mind), where they change the pronunciations in weird ways, much like the British accents tend to do. For example, many Bostoners add the r at the end (like Kennedy did), and to the rest of us it sounds downright bizarre. For another example, many southerners alter vowel pronunciations, deviating from the standard long and short vowel sounds of the letters a and e, which is not that different from some of the accents originating from the British Isles.

[Darth Obvious]

Jonny_Evil wrote...

But you know that dwarves stereotypically have a Scottish accent and the Lucky Charm's leprechaun has a stereotypical Irish accent, so you do know what they bloody well are. When the hell was the last time you watched Braveheart and thought "Ah, what a wonderful British accent Mel Gibson is displaying."?

Uh no, we would say "Scottish accent", just like we would say "Irish accent", or "British accent". It's not about nationality at all. It's about the way those accents sound (at least their most common forms, anyway). We could break them down further, but most of the time we would have no need to do so.

Have I just not explained this well enough for you? I can't understand why you are still confused.

Ah screw it. Saying that it's right because most of your country doesn't know any better is a ridiculous position, but it's one you're obviously not going to budge from.

That's not at all what I have said, and it is strange that you assume I am referring to ignorance, when I am not doing so in any way. What I am saying is that those terms are part of OUR language. Those are the terms we use to describe those accents, whether you like it or not.

You can't possibly expect us to re-write well over 200 years of our history ("The British are coming!", "British Invasion", "Brits", "British Airways", "British Petroleum", "British novelists") just because the term rubs you the wrong way. In fact, you are the first person I've ever heard complain about something that seems so insignificant to the rest of us.

[Eleinehmm]

Obtusifolius wrote...


However, if I manage to make it to the second semester (I'm in the third year, and currently failing because I am too lazy to do my assignments, plus I am addicted to these stupid forums) I will be learning Anglo Saxon!!!

Good luck with cases :innocent:

[JaegerBane]

Darth Obvious wrote...

darkshadow136 wrote...

Well I know this thread was just to get a rise out of people.

That could not be further from the truth.

The reason I made this thread was make note of the fact that the humans in Ferelden tend to speak with a British accent, while the Elves tend to speak with an American accent. It is a salient difference that I thought might generate an interesting discussion.

Instead, someone got offended that Americans use the term 'British', despite the fact that we Americans have been using it for well over two centuries(!). Seems so trivial to most of us, but there it is...

I'm not sure why someone would be offended by the term 'British', although I will point there is no such thing as the 'British' language any more than there is the 'Canadian' language. It's English.

Regarding your original point, I suspect the reason Elves apparently have american accents is the same reason why Imperial officers in Star Wars had british accents . In Star Wars, what we understood as British was, in that universe, understood to be Coruscanti and Candrilan accents - and since most imperial officers came from rich, upper-class worlds, it's natural that a lot of them would have the accent of the two mentioned worlds.

Many of the rebels hailed from places like Corellia, Alderaan and Tatooine, where it was generally undersood that 'american' accents were Corellian accents. There were exceptions, of course. The Stormtroopers often came from the same worlds and hence had similar accents while people like Obi-wan and droids like C-3PO were vice versa.

In the same way, what we understand as american accents are known in the Dragon Age world as Elven accents, since Elves commonly grow up with their own species. Exceptions like Zevran and Leliana show what happens when a person from a certain people grows up in a foreign land.

[Eleinehmm]

Obtusifolius wrote...


 cases are difficult to master in the Anglo Saxon language

This  !



I love Anglo-Saxon - I wish there were more words like hildenǣdran or wedercandel in Modern English

[Eleinehmm]

Well, I would say cases ARE difficult - Especially if you are learning French or Spanish at the same time, -  it tends to be confusing.

[Creature 1]

Darth Obvious wrote...

Prosthetics511 wrote...

I can see the nobility of Ferelden, and members of the empire (armed forces and what not) speak what I kind of classify as real english. That means they want to speak to be clearly understood, no slurring or merging of words, unlike what is often the case in the US, where words are merged and slurred to speak quickly, etc etc.

That makes no sense. In the standard accent of American English, we pronounce words like 'saw' without the 'r' at the end (since there is no 'r' at the end). Yet I hear British people adding r's left and right (e.g. "I sawr a film today, oh boy."). That is just one example that easily disproves your analysis, and there are plenty more. My specialties are in Latin and Greek roots, but these are precisely the kinds of things we look at in the field of linguistics.

It is of note, however, that certain regional American accents (the southern accent and the Boston accent come to mind), where they change the pronunciations in weird ways, much like the British accents tend to do. For example, many Bostoners add the r at the end (like Kennedy did), and to the rest of us it sounds downright bizarre. For another example, many southerners alter vowel pronunciations, deviating from the standard long and short vowel sounds of the letters a and e, which is not that different from some of the accents originating from the British Isles.

When I went to college I met a girl from Maine who added r's.  She told us that in Maine, a word that ends in a vowel gets an r added to it, and words ending in r get the r removed.  She said that "banana" becomes "bananar", until the person saying it forgets that the r that's at the end was added and follows the usual rule of removing it, turning it back into "banana". 

Of course it's not really systematic like that, but it was a funny story! 

[Jonny_Evil]

Darth Obvious wrote...

Jonny_Evil wrote...

But you know that dwarves stereotypically have a Scottish accent and the Lucky Charm's leprechaun has a stereotypical Irish accent, so you do know what they bloody well are. When the hell was the last time you watched Braveheart and thought "Ah, what a wonderful British accent Mel Gibson is displaying."?

Uh no, we would say "Scottish accent", just like we would say "Irish accent", or "British accent". It's not about nationality at all. It's about the way those accents sound (at least their most common forms, anyway). We could break them down further, but most of the time we would have no need to do so.

Have I just not explained this well enough for you? I can't understand why you are still confused.

Ah screw it. Saying that it's right because most of your country doesn't know any better is a ridiculous position, but it's one you're obviously not going to budge from.

That's not at all what I have said, and it is strange that you assume I am referring to ignorance, when I am not doing so in any way. What I am saying is that those terms are part of OUR language. Those are the terms we use to describe those accents, whether you like it or not.

You can't possibly expect us to re-write well over 200 years of our history ("The British are coming!", "British Invasion", "Brits", "British Airways", "British Petroleum", "British novelists") just because the term rubs you the wrong way. In fact, you are the first person I've ever heard complain about something that seems so insignificant to the rest of us.

I'm beginning to see why we're working at cross-purposes here. You think that Irish, Scottish, Welsh and English accents are regional accents, which is why you keep insisting nationality is not an issue.

For the last decade Britain has been undergoing what is known as devolution. N. Ireland, Scotland and Wales now have their own government with varying degrees of power and what is known as the "West Lothian Question" has been rumbling around England ever since, which is basically why are the others becoming more and more independent but Scottish, Welsh and N. Irish MPs still have influence over English matters and we are ruled by a "British" parliament.

The Britain you obviously think about is rapidly ceasing to exist. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England are beginning to go their own way. Small but increasing numbers of English people are beginning to disassociate with Britain, they are English first and British a distant second, whereas in my parents day no-one would have even understood the distinction. So it is a matter of nationality, Ireland is a country and has it's regional dialects generally known as Irish accents. Scotland is a country, and it's dialects are known as Scottish accents. Wales is a country, and it's dialects are known as Welsh accents. You've said as much yourself. Yet England is a country and it's dialects are apparently British accents.

Ten years of change can erase 200 years of habit. 200 years ago you became Americans instead of Colonials as you'd been for centuries previously. Ten years of devolution means that I'm English and not British. Give it a few more decades of nationalism and Britain won't even exist as a political entity. Several people apart from me have told you that there is no such thing as a British accent, I've just explained why the change is ocurring and why English as an identity is being reasserted. The political situation has changed, and I'm very aware that most Americans don't know and don't care, that's why I used ignorance as a reason for using the term, but you've just been enlightened.

[chaudman]

Zevran's accent sounds like a homage to Ricardo Montalban (KHAAAAAAN!) and the passion for leather is supposedly a reference to the Chrysler Corinthian leather adverts.

[Darth Obvious]

 

Maviarab wrote...

American English...lol get over yourself.

No such thing, there is English, and then there is American slang....

That’s actually incorrect. For starters, the "British accent" spoken today is not the same as it was in colonial and pre-colonial times. In fact, experts agree that the modern American “accent” is closer to the normal pronunciation of vowel sounds (along with some consonants, like ‘r’) than any other modern interpretation of spoken English (and many believe that it is in fact the closest to the language of Shakespeare).

For some direct examples, American English pronounces the word 'beer' with a ‘b’ consonant sound, followed by a long ‘e’ vowel sound, followed by an ‘r’ consonant sound: BEER, pronounced exactly as one would expect. Queen’s English, on the other hand, does some weird things, dropping the ‘r’ at the end and essentially adding an additional vowel sound: BEE-UH or BEE-AH (and don’t forget the 'saw' example from before, where Queen's English adds the 'r' on words where the ‘r’ is simply not present: SAWR or SAUR. American English, on the other hand, pronounces it normally: SAW).

These examples, along with several others, illustrate quite clearly that the modern Queen's English accent is in fact a heavily-inflected form of the English language. In other words, whether a given speaker of the language can admit it or not, Queen's English manipulates the sounds of certain letters to quite a great degree, in much the same way as the American southern or Boston accents do (and those accents do seem more Old World, indeed). On the other hand, if you take the vowels (and that pesky consonant, 'r') at face value, then essentially you have American English, whether you like it or not.

Personally, I’m just an observer, so I couldn’t care less. I think women sound sexy with a British accent. It has a lilting femininity to it that quite suits the fairer sex, IMO.

Jonny_Evil wrote...

The Britain you obviously think about is rapidly ceasing to exist.

In this entire thread, I have never referred to Britain as a country. Instead, I have repeatedly tried to explain to you that our use of the term ‘British’ has absolutely nothing to do with nationality.

It’s about the way it sounds, and is precisely why we also say “Irish accent” and “Scottish accent”.  It’s because they clearly sound different.

Furthermore, the reason we say “British accent” is because it would sound weird to most of us Americans to say “English accent”. The use of that phrase could only make sense in the context of other languages. For example, amongst a German-speaker, a Danish-speaker, and a Swedish-speaker, it might make sense to say if one of them spoke with an “English accent”.

But within the English language (in other words, comparing two or more English language accents) it doesn’t really make sense to say “English accent”. We ALL have an English accent, so to speak. So we differentiate: it could be an American accent, or an Irish one, or an Australian one, or a “British” one. It may not be the most accurate term, but that doesn’t matter. It represents something within our culture, and that’s precisely what language is supposed to do.

Again, it just seems like you are missing the entire point of my obviously harmless statements.

Modifié par Darth Obvious, 12 janvier 2010 - 09:04 .

[soteria]

The Britain you obviously think about is rapidly ceasing to exist. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England are beginning to go their own way. Small but increasing numbers of English people are beginning to disassociate with Britain, they are English first and British a distant second, whereas in my parents day no-one would have even understood the distinction.

Just try spending N. Ireland or Scottish pounds in England. Sheesh. You'd think it was a foreign currency; it's stupid.



I'd like to take this time to point out again that I am American, and I would call it an English accent. Or Scottish or Welsh, etc. I'm trying to think if I've even heard it referred to as a "British accent." I couldn't say if I have, although the distinction isn't so important to me that I'm sure it would stick in my memory.



It actually makes pretty good sense to call it an English accent. The country has been known as England for a long time, right? Britain is the land, and doesn't really refer to the English specifically. As for foreign-language speakers commenting on, say, my accent when speaking Spanish or German, they would probably just say I sound American.

[Darth Obvious]

soteria wrote...

I'm trying to think if I've even heard it referred to as a "British accent." I couldn't say if I have, although the distinction isn't so important to me that I'm sure it would stick in my memory.

You have to be joking.

I don't think I've ever heard it called anything else.

It actually makes pretty good sense to call it an English accent. The country has been known as England for a long time, right?

England is part of the United Kingdom.

[soteria]

No duh. And the people who come from England speak with an English accent. As opposed to Wales or Scotland, also part of the UK. In other words, the parts of the UK that aren't England have perfectly accurate terms to describe them as well.



And no, I'm not joking. I might say, "Hey, he sounds like a Brit," but I would call it an English accent.

[ozenglish]

Maviarab wrote...

*walks into thread*....

*Walks right back out shaking his head*.....

About faces, and also follows Mav back to the red head lounge.

[Jonny_Evil]

Darth Obvious wrote...

But within the English language (in other words, comparing two or more English language accents) it doesn’t really make sense to say “English accent”. We ALL have an English accent, so to speak. So we differentiate: it could be an American accent, or an Irish one, or an Australian one, or a “British” one. It may not be the most accurate term, but that doesn’t matter. It represents something within our culture, and that’s precisely what language is supposed to do.

Again, it just seems like you are missing the entire point of my obviously harmless statements.

*sigh*

I'm not missing your point, I understand completely where you're coming from and I don't think you're out to annoy, but I'm just trying to get across to you what your argument says to an English person.

My country is England, my language is English and my accent is an English one. The above quote says to me "America is a country, Ireland is a country, Australia is a country, but England doesn't exist."

I'm not offended by being called British, I'm not arguing points with you for the hell of it. An English accent is an English accent no matter where you're from in the English speaking world. England and Britain are no longer synonymous, there is literally no such thing as a British accent no matter how misinformed anyone may be. All you're doing to me is repeatedly denying my country's right to it's own accent, on the basis of "that's what we've always called it".

Tell me, do you still call people from Russia Soviets?

There is no argument here. Several English people have grumbled about  the accent being called a British accent. Every time before now when I've corrected the use of the term people have just said "Sorry, I didn't know", you're the first I've ever encountered that's tried to argue it's use. The bottom line is an English person has asked you to stop using it, so why are you arguing for it's use?

Yeah I know it seems petty to you, but just imagine your annoyance if the next ethnic monitoring form you have to fill out has Canada, Mexico and North America as it's only choices. I'm not even joking with that, I recently filled one in where the choices were Scottish, Irish, Welsh and White British.<_<

soteria wrote...

It actually makes pretty good sense to
call it an English accent. The country has been known as England for a
long time, right? Britain is the land, and doesn't really refer to the
English specifically.

England has been called that for 1500 years nearly. Britain is only slightly older than America and refers to the Isles as a whole, adopted after England and Scotland signed the Act of Union.

Modifié par Jonny_Evil, 13 janvier 2010 - 12:03 .