60 réponses à ce sujet

[bas273]

If you play as a good guy, you let Zathrian break the curse, side with Harrowmont etc.

But if you play as a Grey Warden, you must always make the Blight your first priority. Werewolves are more useful than a bunch of Dalish Elves so it's better to side with Witherfang imo.

The Anvil of the Void is an evil thing but Golems would be very useful.

Always ask for a reward. You need money to improve the equipment of your companions and armies.

Some examples:
- Side with Witherfang (Werewolves)
- Side with Bhelen (he makes a better king than Harrowmont)
- When asked for a donation (Lothering chantry) simply refuse. Your money is better used on equipment than feeding some refugees.
- Side with the Templars (Mages are unpredictable. It's more useful to have the Chantry's support and Templars are reliable, strong warriors).
- If you're a mage, talk with the demon that possesses Connor and choose the Blood Mage option. Blood Mage -> more power and you're gonna need that extra power while fighting the Darkspawn. Even Duncan admits it ("It is surely something to consider, really".)
- Show mercy to Loghain. You need all the help you can get. Convince Alistair to rule with Anora and be mean to him (killing the Archdemon should be his priority, not vengeance).

In short: Role-playing a Grey Warden means you have to do evil stuff for the greater good. Do you agree? What's your opinion? What choices should you make as a true Grey Warden?

[Eruanna Guerrein]

LOL My current character will be making all those choices. He's not an evil character but he's hard and he's selfish. I find myself gritting my teeth at some of the choices he's making but I'm enjoying seeing another side to the game.



I don't think Grey Warden is synonymous with cold heartedness though. I think part of what makes the GWs successful, besides the taint and all that it does, is that there are so many differences amongst them. So I think you can be a good GW and to go pretty close to either end of the good/bad spectrum. I think being lawful either way would be harder to pull off though.

[Bhatair]

I agree, though with slightly less dedication.

After all, what's the point of saving the world if you screw it up in the process?

[bas273]

What's the point of giving money to a refugee while you could also buy a weapon to fight the Archdemon? There are only two (Riordan is imprisoned) Grey Wardens in Ferelden and no one else can defeat the Archdemon.

You can be nice to people and look for the Urn to save Arl Eamon but this will cost you extra resources and time. Because of that you might die / fail to kill the Archdemon and then it doesn't matter how many people you've helped, they'll all be swallowed by the Blight.

I think the best option would be to side with Loghain. He has betrayed King Cailan but Ferelden must be united at all costs.

Modifié par bas273, 11 janvier 2010 - 07:16 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

bas273 wrote...

If you play as a good guy, you let Zathrian break the curse, side with Harrowmont etc.

But if you play as a Grey Warden, you must always make the Blight your first priority. Werewolves are more useful than a bunch of Dalish Elves so it's better to side with Witherfang imo.

The Anvil of the Void is an evil thing but Golems would be very useful.

Always ask for a reward. You need money to improve the equipment of your companions and armies.

Some examples:
- Side with Witherfang (Werewolves)
- Side with Bhelen (he makes a better king than Harrowmont)
- When asked for a donation (Lothering chantry) simply refuse. Your money is better used on equipment than feeding some refugees.
- Side with the Templars (Mages are unpredictable. It's more useful to have the Chantry's support and Templars are reliable, strong warriors).
- If you're a mage, talk with the demon that possesses Connor and choose the Blood Mage option. Blood Mage -> more power and you're gonna need that extra power while fighting the Darkspawn. Even Duncan admits it ("It is surely something to consider, really".)
- Show mercy to Loghain. You need all the help you can get. Convince Alistair to rule with Anora and be mean to him (killing the Archdemon should be his priority, not vengeance).

In short: Role-playing a Grey Warden means you have to do evil stuff for the greater good. Do you agree? What's your opinion? What choices should you make as a true Grey Warden?

*Hands Bas a suit of armor with 100% fire res* Good luck, you are gonna need it.

I dunno, elvish archers can be pretty good too... even though I've sided with the werewolves on one playthrough I never actually used the werewolves in the final battle, dunno why.

It really depends on my characters beliefs. I got to admit it is fun watching the Golems to work, especially in the entrance to the Fort (specially if done on easy mode), first time I let them loose they massacred almost everyone but a few of the emissarys near the back but still ended up with 2 of them alive hehe. Almost wished I'd recorded it then made a video of it sped up a fraction with the 'Benny Hill' theme tune playing in the backgorund hehe

[Airborne infantry]

if you dont save the town wont arl eamon die or something?

[FKSSR]

I respectively disagree. I believe that part of being a Grey Warden is being just and (generally) good. What's the worth of saving the world if it is a dark place full of selfish people.

I see Grey Wardens a lot like knights. There are tough decisions as you mentioned, but they still have to have some sort of heart and soul behind them. Otherwise, there is little difference between you and the darkspawn you're fighting.

Anyway, I think you know where I'm going with it, so I'll leave it at that.

Modifié par FKSSR, 11 janvier 2010 - 07:19 .

[errant_knight]

bas273 wrote...

If you play as a good guy, you let Zathrian break the curse, side with Harrowmont etc.

But if you play as a Grey Warden, you must always make the Blight your first priority. Werewolves are more useful than a bunch of Dalish Elves so it's better to side with Witherfang imo.

The Anvil of the Void is an evil thing but Golems would be very useful.

Always ask for a reward. You need money to improve the equipment of your companions and armies.

Some examples:
- Side with Witherfang (Werewolves)
- Side with Bhelen (he makes a better king than Harrowmont)
- When asked for a donation (Lothering chantry) simply refuse. Your money is better used on equipment than feeding some refugees.
- Side with the Templars (Mages are unpredictable. It's more useful to have the Chantry's support and Templars are reliable, strong warriors).
- If you're a mage, talk with the demon that possesses Connor and choose the Blood Mage option. Blood Mage -> more power and you're gonna need that extra power while fighting the Darkspawn. Even Duncan admits it ("It is surely something to consider, really".)
- Show mercy to Loghain. You need all the help you can get. Convince Alistair to rule with Anora and be mean to him (killing the Archdemon should be his priority, not vengeance).

In short: Role-playing a Grey Warden means you have to do evil stuff for the greater good. Do you agree? What's your opinion? What choices should you make as a true Grey Warden?

You're basically saying there's only one way to play the game, your way, and anyone who chooses to do otherwise is playing the game wrong. I have to disagree with that. Everyone's choices are valid, both the ones I would pick, and the ones I wouldn't. For one thing, if that were not the case, some choices would lead to a loss at the end or make the game unplayably difficult. For another, a roleplaying game where there's only one proper way to roleplay is unnecessarily limiting.

[bas273]

If you don't save Redcliffe Village everyone in the village is killed except for Bann Teagan ;-).

*Hands Bas a suit of armor with 100% fire res* Good luck, you are gonna need it.

Lol ^^. Shimmering Shield does the trick just fine ;-)

You're basically saying there's only one way to play the game, your
way, and anyone who chooses to do otherwise is playing the game wrong.
I have to disagree with that. Everyone's choices are valid, both the
ones I would pick, and the ones I wouldn't. For one thing, if that were
not the case, some choices would lead to a loss at the end or make the
game unplayably difficult. For another, a roleplaying game where
there's only one proper way to roleplay is unnecessarily limiting.

I'm not saying this is the way you should be playing this game. I'm just wondering what choices a proper Grey Warden (Duncan?) would make. What's more important, saving Redcliffe Village or defeating the Archdemon?

Modifié par bas273, 11 janvier 2010 - 07:23 .

[eschilde]

I disagree about the Templars being more useful than the mages. In the Circle origin Duncan mentions that mages can make a huge difference. You don't have to pick right away, you can go in and gauge the situation first before picking a side, so by the time you get up to the top there's very little reason (as a GW) to side with the Templars IMO.



What about the Urn? Side with the cult or no?

[Ginasue]

We all have a choice on how we play this game. Like any RPG we are the ones who are in control of how we play.

What one person does, doesn't mean we have to do it that way.

I'm one of these who plays a very good person, I try and make decisions based on my own feelings.

I feel that as a Grey Warden we are there to stop the blight but to also help those who need our help.

Wynne asks you what a Grey Warden is. You really should listen to what she has to tell you.

[jimbo91291]

idk, its just a game, i usually play these types of games on a few different profiles, evil, good, and so on and so on...

[Asante81]

Hey, just send Lel away, kill Wynne, kill Zevran, let Sten smother in his own juice, tell Greagoir about Morrigan, give Oghren a kick in his hairy butt and fight the archdemon alone! Sure, who needs help?

Just kill everyone on the way and make yourself and the order look like complete ****s. Get out alive at the end and half of Ferelden might feel like burning you on the stake.

Seriously, there are not enough consequences if you choose the faster, easier and more evil ways. There definitely should be. Sure, you'll be able to kill the archdemon in the end, but you should get out with no friends at all and people being nice enough to simply kick you out of Ferelden instead of giving you a good old execution.

[Tharissa]

Ginasue wrote...

We all have a choice on how we play this game. Like any RPG we are the ones who are in control of how we play.
What one person does, doesn't mean we have to do it that way.
I'm one of these who plays a very good person, I try and make decisions based on my own feelings.
I feel that as a Grey Warden we are there to stop the blight but to also help those who need our help.
Wynne asks you what a Grey Warden is. You really should listen to what she has to tell you.

This.

Also not all of the decisions you make in the game can be considered purely tactical.  There's also a good dose of political tomfoolery going on that you can't really help but wading into.

[Sarethus]

bas273 wrote...

If you play as a good guy, you let Zathrian break the curse, side with Harrowmont etc.

But if you play as a Grey Warden, you must always make the Blight your first priority. Werewolves are more useful than a bunch of Dalish Elves so it's better to side with Witherfang imo.

The Anvil of the Void is an evil thing but Golems would be very useful.

Always ask for a reward. You need money to improve the equipment of your companions and armies.

Some examples:
- Side with Witherfang (Werewolves)
- Side with Bhelen (he makes a better king than Harrowmont)
- When asked for a donation (Lothering chantry) simply refuse. Your money is better used on equipment than feeding some refugees.
- Side with the Templars (Mages are unpredictable. It's more useful to have the Chantry's support and Templars are reliable, strong warriors).
- If you're a mage, talk with the demon that possesses Connor and choose the Blood Mage option. Blood Mage -> more power and you're gonna need that extra power while fighting the Darkspawn. Even Duncan admits it ("It is surely something to consider, really".)
- Show mercy to Loghain. You need all the help you can get. Convince Alistair to rule with Anora and be mean to him (killing the Archdemon should be his priority, not vengeance).

In short: Role-playing a Grey Warden means you have to do evil stuff for the greater good. Do you agree? What's your opinion? What choices should you make as a true Grey Warden?

Nope, your misjudging here as saying Grey Warden's *have* to do evil for the greater good. Sometimes all that's required is a bit of extra effort and other times good can be just as easy. 

Speaking purely from Cost&Effort v.s Reward status (& not from a Meta-perspective):

-Siding with Witherfang:  The initial request of the Lady to simply bring the Dalish elder to talk is much easier then killing a whole tribe (In character, we don't know that we will have to fight the elder). Also while werewolves are powerful a character would have to balance that power vs the potential number of all the dalish elf tribes.

 - Side with Bhelen (he makes a better king than Harrowmont): How would a non-Dwarf warden have any clue about this? Heck while dwarf wardens might have more emotion about it, they wouldn't necessarily know which would make a better king either (in character). Strictly speaking from an efficency point my character did Bhelen's initial quest because it seemed easier to talk to nobles then win a tourney but when to reach the second noble (Lord Dalen) required me to journey to the Deep Roads my character decided it would be easier & faster to win the Tourney for Harrowmont. Also as thing's moved forward Harrowmont seemed more honorable and because of that would be more likely to live upto his treaty.

-When asked for a donation (Lothering chantry) simply refuse. Your money is better used on equipment than feeding some refugees. : Agreed

- Side with the Templars (Mages are unpredictable. It's more useful to have the Chantry's support and Templars are reliable, strong warriors). : Mages have much more power though and how exactly are they unreliable in terms of fighting a blight? 

- If you're a mage, talk with the demon that possesses Connor and choose the Blood Mage option. Blood Mage -> more power and you're gonna need that extra power while fighting the Darkspawn. Even Duncan admits it ("It is surely something to consider, really".) : Agreed although my character made the extra effort and simply intimidated the Demon to leave + give Blood Mage Spec at same time.

- Show mercy to Loghain. You need all the help you can get. Convince Alistair to rule with Anora and be mean to him (killing the Archdemon should be his priority, not vengeance). : *shrug* Personal judgement here, My character judged Loghain as untrustworthy and potentially divisive character in Fereldan politics. Other characters could see it differently I suppose. My second charcter just let Allistair fight as it was his kingdom/throne that was under debate.

- The Anvil of the Void is an evil thing but Golems would be very useful.: Strictly speaking both of my characters would agree that the Anvil is very useful but you would also have to balance Branka in to the equation. If I could have convinced Caridan to remain and be in charge of using the anvil then all would be plain sailing and while the Anvil is not evil by itself, letting an insane Branka be in charge of it...well lets just say not one of my characters thought that was a good idea.

[biomag]

Maviarab wrote...

Arl Eamon shouldnt even be needed in actuality, you have treaties with 3 groups, mages, elves and dwarves, you only get into helping the Arl cos whiney Alistair suggested it.

So  you expect the humans watching an army of dwarfs march through their land towards the south? A paranoic leader like Loghain smiling and saying: "Look at those poor basta*** they are going to fight the darkspawn to save our country! HAHA! LOSER!"... something is telling me this would not have happened....

Also when you look at the battle of Denerim you may have noticed that there were a few more humans than elves, dwarfs and mages together.



@Werewolves vs Dalish: I ain't that sure that the werewolves would be my choice as commander. The elves have the best bowmen in Ferelden, while the werewolves may even have a bad impact towards the troops moral and I would guess that there are more Dales than werewolves. But it stays a matter of taste.

@Dwarfen King: I would choose Bhelen in both cases. He seemed more capable to me.
@Golem: Probably I would have used it as Grey Warden, but I would have got rid of Branka as soon as possible. See is dumb enough to turn on you right in the middle of the endbattle... crazy nut.

@Mages: Except for the chantry and religious people I doubt that many people are afraid of mages. Grey Warden always used mages and even bloodmages. I would take them over the templars in a heartbeat. Play the mage origin and talk to Duncan, then you will know how little trust he had towards mages...

Modifié par biomag, 11 janvier 2010 - 07:41 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Fighting a Blight takes alot more than simply making quick, easiest route descisions. So, playing a "Grey" Warden is not purely based on the descisions listed. Warden's also have to think about what will provide the greatest chance of success, as well as look at the consequences to the effort.

[bas273]

Ginasue wrote...

We all have a choice on how we play this game. Like any RPG we are the ones who are in control of how we play.
What one person does, doesn't mean we have to do it that way.
I'm one of these who plays a very good person, I try and make decisions based on my own feelings.
I feel that as a Grey Warden we are there to stop the blight but to also help those who need our help.
Wynne asks you what a Grey Warden is. You really should listen to what she has to tell you.

I've listened to everything Wynne has to say .

Of course you can role-play a very good Grey Warden who tries his best to save everyone.

And I understand that this is just a game which means it has limits.

Just for fun: what if you had enless possibilities? I think the best solution would be to go to Orlais and tell the Grey Wardens there what has happened. Or go to Denerim and side with Loghain (or kill him).

How would a non-Dwarf warden have any clue about this? Heck while dwarf
wardens might have more emotion about it, they wouldn't necessarily
know which would make a better king either (in character). Strictly
speaking from an efficency point my character did Bhelen's initial
quest because it seemed easier to talk to nobles then win a tourney but
when to reach the second noble (Lord Dalen) required me to journey to
the Deep Roads my character decided it would be easier & faster to
win the Tourney for Harrowmont. Also as thing's moved forward
Harrowmont seemed more honorable and because of that would be more
likely to live upto his treaty.

You can learn more about Harrowmont/Bhelen by listening to the various dialogues. I agree that you cannot foresee who's going to be a better ruler but Bhelen wants to make a change which is a good thing. If you want to defeat the Blight you don't want the Dwarves (who are very familiar with Darkspawn!) to isolate themselves from the rest of the world.

The initial request of the Lady to simply bring the Dalish elder to
talk is much easier then killing a whole tribe (In character, we don't
know that we will have to fight the elder). Also while werewolves are
powerful a character would have to balance that power vs the potential
number of all the dalish elf tribes.

Agreed. I guess this is a personal choice. Werewolves are more intimidating and stronger but you don't know whether they can be trusted or not.

Mages have much more power though and how exactly are they unreliable in terms of fighting a blight? 

Knight-Commander Greagoir was troubled that the Circle was sending Mages to aid King Cailan's army. That's why they also sended some Templars to Ostagar .
On the battlefield, Mages can unleash their full power. Some of them might try to escape (and live as hermits in the forests). They can even use Blood Magic to escape. Not to mention there's a chance they turn into an abomination and/or (accidentally) kill their allies.

*shrug* Personal judgement here, My character judged Loghain as
untrustworthy and potentially divisive character in Fereldan politics.
Other characters could see it differently I suppose. My second charcter
just let Allistair fight as it was his kingdom/throne that was under
debate.

Agreed. Though I would like to add that Loghain is an excellent general and would make a very powerful Grey Warden, as Riordan tells you. You could always let him go through the joining, defeat the Blight and execute him later on.

Modifié par bas273, 11 janvier 2010 - 07:54 .

[errant_knight]

bas273 wrote...

If you don't save Redcliffe Village everyone in the village is killed except for Bann Teagan ;-).

*Hands Bas a suit of armor with 100% fire res* Good luck, you are gonna need it.

Lol ^^. Shimmering Shield does the trick just fine ;-)

You're basically saying there's only one way to play the game, your
way, and anyone who chooses to do otherwise is playing the game wrong.
I have to disagree with that. Everyone's choices are valid, both the
ones I would pick, and the ones I wouldn't. For one thing, if that were
not the case, some choices would lead to a loss at the end or make the
game unplayably difficult. For another, a roleplaying game where
there's only one proper way to roleplay is unnecessarily limiting.

I'm not saying this is the way you should be playing this game. I'm just wondering what choices a proper Grey Warden (Duncan?) would make. What's more important, saving Redcliffe Village or defeating the Archdemon?

What I'm saying is that there is no 'proper' grey warden, as that definition differs from person to person, and people can make opposite choices as best for the end goal.

[bas273]

errant_knight wrote...

bas273 wrote...

If you don't save Redcliffe Village everyone in the village is killed except for Bann Teagan ;-).

*Hands Bas a suit of armor with 100% fire res* Good luck, you are gonna need it.

Lol ^^. Shimmering Shield does the trick just fine ;-)

You're basically saying there's only one way to play the game, your
way, and anyone who chooses to do otherwise is playing the game wrong.
I have to disagree with that. Everyone's choices are valid, both the
ones I would pick, and the ones I wouldn't. For one thing, if that were
not the case, some choices would lead to a loss at the end or make the
game unplayably difficult. For another, a roleplaying game where
there's only one proper way to roleplay is unnecessarily limiting.

I'm not saying this is the way you should be playing this game. I'm just wondering what choices a proper Grey Warden (Duncan?) would make. What's more important, saving Redcliffe Village or defeating the Archdemon?

What I'm saying is that there is no 'proper' grey warden, as that definition differs from person to person, and people can make opposite choices as best for the end goal.

I suppose that's true. Then let's call it a "Grey Warden who sees the Blight as his highest priority and believes the end justifies the means".  What choices would he make?

Modifié par bas273, 11 janvier 2010 - 07:57 .

[Asante81]

errant_knight wrote...

What I'm saying is that there is no 'proper' grey warden, as that definition differs from person to person, and people can make opposite choices as best for the end goal.

Sure, but there should be differences of how you'll be treated afterwards. You're definitely not the shimmering hero if you walked over a lot of corpses. 

[ReubenLiew]

The Grey Wardens will always side with the Mages, no matter how dangerous or unpredictable they may be.

They are the single most powerful force in Fereldan, even a handful of mages are the equivalent of an army.

[KahnyaGnorc]

Harrowmont was a general for the old king, so that gives him bonus points for being a better help militarily, while Bhelen is said to consider anything HE survives as a victory.



Not siding with the mages? That's like saying "we don't need artillery or explosives" to fight more modern wars. They bring the boom. The Wardens could use the boom. (Also, the templars STILL join if you side with the mages, at least they did for me)



As for the elves, I would prefer archers with yet ANOTHER group of shock troops (as humans and dwarves bring shock troops with them).



You are probably right about the anvil and Loghain/Alistair, though.