207 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvanpyxie]

I would appreciate a Port being done *well* regardless of which platform it goes to. Let's be honest here, there are few things more annoying than poorly ported game-play and a lack of keyboard/controller compatibility.

I'm primarily a PC user, though I have consoles for more compatible games such as Fable/Prince of Persia/Tomb Raider blah blah, and my more recent experiences with PC Ports have been dreadful to the point of unplayable. It's not a case of graphics, I really couldn't give a damn since I still live in the late 90s/early 00s era of graphical exellence, but the game-play itself needs to work.

Regardless of what's ported where, I don't need the game to pretty but I do need the game to play well.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 28 février 2013 - 04:36 .

[Talonfire]

Wulfram wrote...

Talonfire wrote...

Fortunately BioWare has been pretty good about offering suitable UIs for different platforms in the past, at least in my experience, so I'm not particularly concerned about seeing a Skyrim-like UI in Dragon Age III.

The ME games have their petty annoyances.  No hotkey for the mission log always gets on my nerve.

This is true, but the Mass Effect games (particularly the latter two) were just the exception to this I think. I felt that Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, and both Dragon Age games had decent PC UIs.

Modifié par Talonfire, 28 février 2013 - 04:39 .

[Chromie]

Wulfram wrote...

Talonfire wrote...

Fortunately BioWare has been pretty good about offering suitable UIs for different platforms in the past, at least in my experience, so I'm not particularly concerned about seeing a Skyrim-like UI in Dragon Age III.

The ME games have their petty annoyances.  No hotkey for the mission log always gets on my nerve.

And the spacebar is used for every single action. I have 100+ keys use them!

[Realmzmaster]

Porting one way or the other boils down to the skill of the team doing the port. DAO was developed for the PC and then ported to the consoles. The console ports were inferior to the PC. Saints Row the third was ported from the consoles to the PC and many PC players noted long term performance problems which in many cases made the game unplayable.

The point is that it is not the platform that makes the port poor but the team's skill at making the port and taking the different platform limitations into consideration.

The PC has always been a nightmare to program games for because of the various different configurations that can occur. The consoles have known specifications.

A good port is one that takes into consideration the platform

[bEVEsthda]

If one does it the way the OP suggests, it's quite likely it won't be possible to port to consoles.

The case of DA:O, one might suspect it was more like: The original DA:O was remade into a multiplatform game, which included a couple of console ports. What PC exclusive DA:O looked like, we'll likely never know, but it's safe to say it didn't have better graphics.

A successful game has to be developed as a multiplatform game, including planning on how to fit it to all platforms, how to do saves, etc, from the start.

PC is not difficult to develop for. On the contrary it's the easiest. But it's the hardest to be publisher for and to provide support for.

[Joey Coco]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

It's a console game first and foremost because games like Origins and DA2 ended up selling more copies on consoles. The days of Bioware making PC games and then porting them down to consoles are over.

And they have been since Knights of the Old Republic.  Even that and Jade Empire were first made on XBOX then later ported to PC.

[D_Thoran]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

D_Thoran wrote...

The whole point is to make sure everyone has a great experience.  When they develop for PC and port to consoles, everyone is happy.  When it goes the other way, PC players often get shafted with sub-par products.  If you can't understand that, there is no hope for you.

How exactly do you mean the console port of Origin was not inferior? I'd say DA2 works better on PC than DAO does on xbox. At least, it does nowadays, there was the problem with AoE markers getting stuck on enemies in the launch version of the game on PC while the console version could place AoEs anywhere. Heck if anything DA2 still plays better on PC than console already since issuing commands is quicker. Compare the sequence of LT, upleft+A, move a reticule with the joystick, A to simply pointing your mouse and clicking (these are the sequences for movement).

D_Thoran wrote...

If it is designed for PC's in mind, you get a much better game overall, as it is much easier to port it down to console hardware specs.  If it was designed for consoles, you get a crappy port to the PC with sub-par performance, and mostly beyond hideous controls and layouts.  (no keybinding, remapping, forced to use a stupid gamepad, ect, ect)  Nothing worse than a crappy console port for the PC.

No keybindings, remapping or forcing you to use the gamepad have nothing to do with porting to PC and everything to do with not caring about the PC user experience. Similar to how even though we got a command wheel for the console version of DAO, there is no way to simply move a character anywhere and no way to give two characters different commands without unpausing in between the orders.

D_Thoran wrote...

Don't understand why console fanboys have such a problem with this.  Designing for PC first means a better quality game, and more fun for everone, the other way, most PC users don't even bother buying it.

So if there's a bad port to PC, that somehow hurts more than if there's a bad port to console?

If a good port is a good port, everybody wins. If a bad port is a bad port, the one who gets the bad port suffers. Nowhere in that piece of logic does it state which platform is which, they're simply different and need different UIs and some minor changes in functionality. If the port is well-made enough, you can't even really tell which was the platform of origin.

I think you misunderstand.  I never said DA:O for consoles was better, in fact I said the opposite,  However, it seems like from the reviews and ratings most of these ports get, the console guys are happy overall.  Look at Dungeon Siege 3 for instance.  A game that originated in it's series on PC, and 1&2 were vastly superior games to the 3rd edition.  On the 3rd edition, the developer got greedy, and to make more money, designed the game around console play, and then threw the PC players a bone as an afterthought with a hideous port, that no one plays or remembers.  By dumbing down the game to hit the standards most console players seem happy with, they destroyed an otherwise extremely popular franchise, with a bright future.

Your right in one respect, if a port is good it's good, however current ports of games for PC that were designed around the console scheme of things have been beyond horrible.  No excuse for that.  Not only does the playability suffer when they hatchet up a game for consoles, but the whole gaming experience suffers, including content.

[D_Thoran]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

So. This must be the dark side of the PC master race. It's dickish. We of the PC do not "deserve" anything more than the poor console folk. I'll be cool as long as it comes out on PC. And it's playable. But I have yet to play a PC game on a PC that wasn't playable. That would be stupid.

It's not about being better or more deserving or any of that childish banter.  It's about a quality game.  We all deserve that.  When they design a game for consoles, PC players always get the raw end of the stick.  Granted, console players never get games quite as good as they can be experienced on the PC most times either, but they are the ones choosing to play dumbed down versions of games on their inferior hardware.

There is NO WAY anyone above 10 could play DA:O on a console and then play it on a PC and say that the PC version of the game was not vastly superior in every way.  We do deserve the best product that can be developed, and we pay top dollar for the machines that are able to get the most out of what developers offer, not really my problem you are okay with a stripped down version of the game on 10 year old hardware.  PC users shouldn't suffer just so companies can make profit. 

And if you think about it, console users should be angry as well.  They get a dumbed down, oversimplified, stripped out game, that is way under par to the PC version, and pay the same for it.  If thats what you like, good for you.

[D_Thoran]

Plaintiff wrote...

 Another edict delivered from on-high by the elite PC-gaming master race.

Dirty console peasants, cower before your betters. <_<

Why do people always trot this tired line out?  Most PC users own consoles too, and love them for what they are.  You chose to accept an inferior version of the game on your decade old hardware.  I didn't.  I want the best that my money can buy, don't you?  Why should I get stuck with an unplayable travesty of a game simply because you won't play on a PC?  That's just stupid.

[D_Thoran]

Talonfire wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

How about trying to make sure everybody has a good experience, with UIs that fit their respective input devices?

Why some people feel their platform is so special and needs to be better at the expense of the experience of those on other platforms, I'll never understand. I need to swap discs all the time in ME3, do I begrudge those on PS3 and PC who don't need to do so? Not at all.

I agree with this one hundred percent. Speaking as a PC gamer with a decent gaming computer, I don't feel that the PC needs to be the highest priority. As long as BioWare doesn't follow in Bethesda's footsteps and force PC gamers to use increasingly worse console UIs because they don't feel like making proper PC friendly UIs, I'm content.

And that my friend is the real problem.  They have been, and seem content to, force PC players to deal with crappy console controls and UI's, and the trend doesn't seem to be slowing down, as people actually accept it.  My original point was that any game designed from a PC standpoint will be a better game period, for all involved.  That does not happen when we get stuck with a crappy, careless port designed for a console which ends up being all but unplayable on a PC.

[D_Thoran]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

D_Thoran wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

*snip*

Thank God someone with some brains.  I'm not bashing consoles, I own the top 3 consoles myself and play a ton of games on them.  The overall problem is, when you look at a game like DA:O on the PC, then look at it on a console, (not just graphics, overall playability and design) console users got a lot less enjoyable of an experience.  I know, my son played the console version, until he got on and tried the PC version, then the console version got traded in soon after.

If it is designed for PC's in mind, you get a much better game overall, as it is much easier to port it down to console hardware specs.  If it was designed for consoles, you get a crappy port to the PC with sub-par performance, and mostly beyond hideous controls and layouts.  (no keybinding, remapping, forced to use a stupid gamepad, ect, ect)  Nothing worse than a crappy console port for the PC.

Don't understand why console fanboys have such a problem with this.  Designing for PC first means a better quality game, and more fun for everone, the other way, most PC users don't even bother buying it.

The port of Saints Row 2 to PC was from all accounts horrendous, so much so that CD Projekt Red, responsible for that port, never ported the game's DLC over to the PC. I guess the vanilla game undersold.

The main thing I miss when I play a game on console vs playing the same game on PC (I have Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas on both platforms; got the PC versions SUPER cheap during a Steam sale) is modding. KOTOR 1 and 2 are both better, especially The Sith Lords after installing the Restored Content Mod. I also like being able to have a lesbian romance with Bastila using a defiantly non-canon female Revan. A game like Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines is vastly improved with the Camarilla Edition overhaul.

I've never actually played a Dragon Age game on PC. At this point I have far too many playthroughs, either completed and transferred to Dragon Age II or else still in progress on my XBox hard drive for me to just scrap them and start from the beginning again, even with the promise of all the cool stuff mods can offer. I develop far too much sentimental attachment to my various characters. It's for the same reason that I've never purchased or played any of the PC versions of the Mass Effect games.

I'm hoping with DA3 that not only is the game designed with PC in mind, but that it's designed with the intention of being a rich, intricate role-playing experience. If new fans and casual gamers can't take the time to learn how to play a game or get into it without it having to be dumbed down to a level devs and/or publishers thinks it needs to be to appeal to them, screw them. If that makes me sound like an entitled elitist fan, then I guess that makes me an entitled elitist fan.

And you win again.  When you dumb down a product to fit the lowest common denominator in any situation, you lose.  (just check out our public school kids for a real world example)  When did people become okay with half-arsed?

[Fredward]

D_Thoran wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

So. This must be the dark side of the PC master race. It's dickish. We of the PC do not "deserve" anything more than the poor console folk. I'll be cool as long as it comes out on PC. And it's playable. But I have yet to play a PC game on a PC that wasn't playable. That would be stupid.

It's not about being better or more deserving or any of that childish banter.  It's about a quality game.  We all deserve that.  When they design a game for consoles, PC players always get the raw end of the stick.  Granted, console players never get games quite as good as they can be experienced on the PC most times either, but they are the ones choosing to play dumbed down versions of games on their inferior hardware.

There is NO WAY anyone above 10 could play DA:O on a console and then play it on a PC and say that the PC version of the game was not vastly superior in every way.  We do deserve the best product that can be developed, and we pay top dollar for the machines that are able to get the most out of what developers offer, not really my problem you are okay with a stripped down version of the game on 10 year old hardware.  PC users shouldn't suffer just so companies can make profit. 

And if you think about it, console users should be angry as well.  They get a dumbed down, oversimplified, stripped out game, that is way under par to the PC version, and pay the same for it.  If thats what you like, good for you.

Can someone please give me an example of where a game was first made on consoles and then ported to PC so I can check if I recall them being goddawful? And I'm not trying to be snarky here or anything, I really wanna know.

Also I don't suppose you guys who're complaining about how bad a port from console to PC was have played it on both? Maybe that's the issue. The world is much simpler when you just pay selective attention. XD

[Sanunes]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

D_Thoran wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

So. This must be the dark side of the PC master race. It's dickish. We of the PC do not "deserve" anything more than the poor console folk. I'll be cool as long as it comes out on PC. And it's playable. But I have yet to play a PC game on a PC that wasn't playable. That would be stupid.

It's not about being better or more deserving or any of that childish banter.  It's about a quality game.  We all deserve that.  When they design a game for consoles, PC players always get the raw end of the stick.  Granted, console players never get games quite as good as they can be experienced on the PC most times either, but they are the ones choosing to play dumbed down versions of games on their inferior hardware.

There is NO WAY anyone above 10 could play DA:O on a console and then play it on a PC and say that the PC version of the game was not vastly superior in every way.  We do deserve the best product that can be developed, and we pay top dollar for the machines that are able to get the most out of what developers offer, not really my problem you are okay with a stripped down version of the game on 10 year old hardware.  PC users shouldn't suffer just so companies can make profit. 

And if you think about it, console users should be angry as well.  They get a dumbed down, oversimplified, stripped out game, that is way under par to the PC version, and pay the same for it.  If thats what you like, good for you.

Can someone please give me an example of where a game was first made on consoles and then ported to PC so I can check if I recall them being goddawful? And I'm not trying to be snarky here or anything, I really wanna know.

Also I don't suppose you guys who're complaining about how bad a port from console to PC was have played it on both? Maybe that's the issue. The world is much simpler when you just pay selective attention. XD

For its not really about being a bad port, but not taking advantage of what a PC has, such as buttons.  Looking at Mass Effect 3 they have multiple functions bound to the spacebar (run, cover, and climb) just like the consoles.  There are other things that people don't like such as graphics, but to me its things like not taking full use of the keyboard.

[imbs]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

D_Thoran wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

So. This must be the dark side of the PC master race. It's dickish. We of the PC do not "deserve" anything more than the poor console folk. I'll be cool as long as it comes out on PC. And it's playable. But I have yet to play a PC game on a PC that wasn't playable. That would be stupid.

It's not about being better or more deserving or any of that childish banter.  It's about a quality game.  We all deserve that.  When they design a game for consoles, PC players always get the raw end of the stick.  Granted, console players never get games quite as good as they can be experienced on the PC most times either, but they are the ones choosing to play dumbed down versions of games on their inferior hardware.

There is NO WAY anyone above 10 could play DA:O on a console and then play it on a PC and say that the PC version of the game was not vastly superior in every way.  We do deserve the best product that can be developed, and we pay top dollar for the machines that are able to get the most out of what developers offer, not really my problem you are okay with a stripped down version of the game on 10 year old hardware.  PC users shouldn't suffer just so companies can make profit. 

And if you think about it, console users should be angry as well.  They get a dumbed down, oversimplified, stripped out game, that is way under par to the PC version, and pay the same for it.  If thats what you like, good for you.

Can someone please give me an example of where a game was first made on consoles and then ported to PC so I can check if I recall them being goddawful? And I'm not trying to be snarky here or anything, I really wanna know.

Also I don't suppose you guys who're complaining about how bad a port from console to PC was have played it on both? Maybe that's the issue. The world is much simpler when you just pay selective attention. XD

You are actually a serious poster arent you? Let's see, your post goes from asking people to do your googling for you -> dismissive idiocy -> random platitude -> serious use of the smiley "XD". Maybe you should indeed go back to spouting them memes.

[Fredward]

imbs wrote...
You are actually a serious poster arent you? Let's see, your post goes from asking people to do your googling for you -> dismissive idiocy -> random platitude -> serious use of the smiley "XD". Maybe you should indeed go back to spouting them memes.

Uh. Are you seriously following me from thread to thread waggling your finger? Dude. Go away.

[zsom]

So Bioware should focus on a platform that sells less copies and is more prone to piracy? And only because you spent money on a gaming PC, even though it was your decision alone, and not something suggested by the official advertisements from Bioware... Seems legit!

Btw. I play on PC as well, but I don't expect to be treated differently for it.

[Annie_Dear]

zsom wrote...

So Bioware should focus on a platform that sells less copies and is more prone to piracy? And only because you spent money on a gaming PC, even though it was your decision alone, and not something suggested by the official advertisements from Bioware... Seems legit!

[Arppis]

I don't mind it as long as the console port is great. In Origins it kinda sucked.

And Mass Effect was great despite it being built on consoles first. Thou I have to say that even there the controls could have been better... but they got the job done.

Modifié par Arppis, 01 mars 2013 - 07:54 .

[imbs]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

imbs wrote...
You are actually a serious poster arent you? Let's see, your post goes from asking people to do your googling for you -> dismissive idiocy -> random platitude -> serious use of the smiley "XD". Maybe you should indeed go back to spouting them memes.

Uh. Are you seriously following me from thread to thread waggling your finger? Dude. Go away.

I picked this thread at random m8, it's not my fault I noticed that the same poster who was meme spouting in another thread was posting more nonsense in this one is it? I actually avoid the threads where you are the last poster, just fyi.

Modifié par imbs, 01 mars 2013 - 07:57 .

[Annie_Dear]

Arppis wrote....

And Mass Effect was great despite it being built on consoles first.

The sequals, sure. The first game, no.

[Fredward]

Annie_Dear wrote...

Arppis wrote....

And Mass Effect was great despite it being built on consoles first.

The sequals, sure. The first game, no.

I'd agree with this. ME1 was pretty clunky. But considering ME2 and 3 were such that I srsly did not know that they were made on console first I see no reason to be all flaily-panicky over the idea of DA3 being made for consoles  first.

[Kidd]

D_Thoran wrote...

Look at Dungeon Siege 3 for instance.  A game that originated in it's series on PC, and 1&2 were vastly superior games to the 3rd edition.  On the 3rd edition, the developer got greedy, and to make more money, designed the game around console play, and then threw the PC players a bone as an afterthought with a hideous port, that no one plays or remembers.  By dumbing down the game to hit the standards most console players seem happy with, they destroyed an otherwise extremely popular franchise, with a bright future.

What you're talking about here isn't bad porting, it's simply bad game design. One inspired by prejudice toward console gamers (according to you, I've only played the first game in the series).

D_Thoran wrote...

My original point was that any game designed from a PC standpoint will be a better game period, for all involved.

Using DAO and DA2 as examples, I'm not sure I agree. In DAO I can't give orders to my party during a pause without the game unpausing for me, and I can't tell my party members to go anywhere. Try booting up DAO some time and never ever click to move, only use WASD. You'll see that using rogues in your party will get pretty darn annoying.

The problems don't exist in DA2. Is DAO the better game for all involved when I can't even do basic things such as tactical positioning?

Granted, I am very aware that this is a time issue. We could probably slap the DA2 interface onto DAO in retrospect and make those controls much better. They simply didn't have the time to perfect the controls for DAO's console version. But that just reinforces my original point, that the important thing is to look after every platform's UI and control schemes to make sure they're all equally well-designed.

I'm not sure why one even needs to think in the train of thought of "this game is designed for platform X first and then ported onto Y" if both interfaces are designed from the start. A well-done port suffers in no way but perhaps graphical fidelity.

D_Thoran wrote...

When you dumb down a product to fit the lowest common denominator in any situation, you lose.  (just check out our public school kids for a real world example)  When did people become okay with half-arsed?

I live in a country where the top performing schools and universities are all owned by the government and has no cost to attend, while private schools are mostly just average schools with unique qualities (teaching in another language, religious profiles etc). Unfitting analogy, I believe =)

[gw2005]

don't particularly care about graphics. sure they need to be up to snuff, but isn't a priority.

One thing.
One only thing: make it native to x64 environment. PLEASE.

[FedericoV]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

On an unrelated note, PC is the lead platform for Watch Dogs (one of the few 2013's games I'm waiting with interest). One of the devs said that it's easier to port from PC to consolles (and that it should cost way less during the next gen because the Xbox720 and the PS4 are... PC ).

This would probably explain why CDPR's port of Volition's Saints Row 2 for PC was so bad.

The gentlemen's of the row's patch did a great job fixing and optimizing most things. I've played SR2 with the patch and I did not encounter any major issue (just some random crash). SR3 was very good on PC.

Btw: we should admit that with all his recent year's faults, Bioware has always respected the PC player base giving us very good ports of their games.

DA:O was developed with the PC and mouse/keyboard in mind and it's the last game of the sort that comes to mind in the AAA budget category.

PC ports for DA2, ME2 and ME3 were really good and flawless. My only problem with Bioware's port is that they do not support the gamepad on PC at the end. If a game is developed for the gamepad, I want to play it as the devs intended it to be played.  

[Sable Rhapsody]

So...when something is poorly ported from console to PC it's bad. When something's poorly ported from PC to console it's...what? Somehow acceptable? LOL.

BioWare's ports have IMO been pretty good. And if you're really that bothered about the textures or graphics, there's always modding on PC.