207 réponses à ce sujet

[D_Thoran]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

D_Thoran wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

So. This must be the dark side of the PC master race. It's dickish. We of the PC do not "deserve" anything more than the poor console folk. I'll be cool as long as it comes out on PC. And it's playable. But I have yet to play a PC game on a PC that wasn't playable. That would be stupid.

It's not about being better or more deserving or any of that childish banter.  It's about a quality game.  We all deserve that.  When they design a game for consoles, PC players always get the raw end of the stick.  Granted, console players never get games quite as good as they can be experienced on the PC most times either, but they are the ones choosing to play dumbed down versions of games on their inferior hardware.

There is NO WAY anyone above 10 could play DA:O on a console and then play it on a PC and say that the PC version of the game was not vastly superior in every way.  We do deserve the best product that can be developed, and we pay top dollar for the machines that are able to get the most out of what developers offer, not really my problem you are okay with a stripped down version of the game on 10 year old hardware.  PC users shouldn't suffer just so companies can make profit. 

And if you think about it, console users should be angry as well.  They get a dumbed down, oversimplified, stripped out game, that is way under par to the PC version, and pay the same for it.  If thats what you like, good for you.

Can someone please give me an example of where a game was first made on consoles and then ported to PC so I can check if I recall them being goddawful? And I'm not trying to be snarky here or anything, I really wanna know.

Also I don't suppose you guys who're complaining about how bad a port from console to PC was have played it on both? Maybe that's the issue. The world is much simpler when you just pay selective attention. XD

Yes, I have played on both.  For one look at the vast differences to DA:O.  Then look at either of the first two installments of dungeon siege, and then look at the 3rd made for consoles.  There are many more examples, and I'm sure there will be some mentioned in this thread.

It's not really about superiority.  It's about good games, no matter where they are played, and when they get made with consoles in mind first, instead of PC in mind first, both parties get inferior product.  I'm really not a PC elitist.  I own or have owned every console made since intellivision, or maybe before....

its about quality, and what we accept for quality most times is not....

[Orian Tabris]

As long as BioWare doesn't do like Bethesda did with Skyrim. They must have built it for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 first, even though TES was on PC long before console use, because the interface seems more concerned with appearance than functionality.
<_<

[D_Thoran]

zsom wrote...

So Bioware should focus on a platform that sells less copies and is more prone to piracy? And only because you spent money on a gaming PC, even though it was your decision alone, and not something suggested by the official advertisements from Bioware... Seems legit!

Btw. I play on PC as well, but I don't expect to be treated differently for it.

PC doesn't sell less copies.  When they tell you sales numbers they use all console togethr vs PC sales.  Sure you will have higher, but you are averaging multiple systems.  The prone to piracy bit doesn't even deserve to be part of this conversation.

It's not about what I spent money on.  It's about a decent game.  Play DA:O for one on a console, then play it as it was intended to be played on a PC.  You will see the difference.  So much better experience.

Look it's rather simple really.  If they build a game around mid to high end gaming PC's, and then port it down to specs your console can handle, then you lose nothing, and neither do I.  We both get the best game our respective hardware can play.  If they build a game around consoles, PC games always lose.  Why not go with the first option, and everyone is happy?  Seems reasonable enough of an argument right?  How is this elitism or favoratism, or anything else?  Anyone who can process logic above a 5th grade level should be able to see my point.  If you can't, then this argument is lost on you.

[imbs]

It's much much much harder to port from PC to consoles (as far as i know). It might change next gen but right now even low end PCs are far more powerful than the consoles are - it's part of the reason that PC has more exclusives than all consoles combined. If you start on PC it's likely that you wont ever get anything on consoles.

[Solmanian]

I'm more interested in bioware making a PC game that supports a controller. It's been an industry standard since before ME1, what's the big deal bioware?!

[D_Thoran]

imbs wrote...

It's much much much harder to port from PC to consoles (as far as i know). It might change next gen but right now even low end PCs are far more powerful than the consoles are - it's part of the reason that PC has more exclusives than all consoles combined. If you start on PC it's likely that you wont ever get anything on consoles.

I'm not sure, but from the limited contact I have had with both designers and developers and such over the years, I have been led to believe it is easier to start with a product designed for PC, and change it for consoles.  With consoles there is almost always a removal of product.

I hope now with console designers getting smarter and building their boxes on truely compatible hardware with PC's, that this will be less of an issue in the future.  One can only hope.

[D_Thoran]

Solmanian wrote...

I'm more interested in bioware making a PC game that supports a controller. It's been an industry standard since before ME1, what's the big deal bioware?!

I don't understand why anyone would choose a gamepad on a PC product.  To me the various mouse and keyboard combos are so much more efficient and configurable for different playstyles than a gamepad.

[Tatsumaki]

Creating a software for PC specs and then toning it down is actually win-win situation for both. The only downside is that it requires additional work. Here is a simple analogy.

Lets break down game experience to units (as a measurement). For PC lets use 80 units. For consoles lets use 70. For those who think I am bias, lets face the facts; PC hardware and capability far surpasses consoles.

Lets say "Dragon Age" 10 is being produced. If they make the software to run on 80 units, and then do a console port rewriting it to 70 units, both users from both platforms enjoy maximum experience (in terms of gameplay, graphics, UI so on and so forth

What is happening now is they make software at 70 units then bring it up to PC at 70. Just add in input device keyboard keys replacing the BAXY buttons and mouse input replacing analog/D-Pad.

The result of it? Frustrating gameplay. I don't have to deviate very far but just naming one two titles such as Dead Space 1 (Turning around was clunky. Often times necromoprhs dropped from ceiling or vents behind. Result is Isaac getting a back rub) Mass Effect 3 (The omni button has been responsible for numerous squad mate death. Ask in the multiplayer forums, how many people have taken cover / vaulted over cover rather than reviving a down team mate?)

Modifié par Tatsumaki, 01 mars 2013 - 10:25 .

[AlexJK]

D_Thoran wrote...

I don't understand why anyone would choose a gamepad on a PC product.  To me the various mouse and keyboard combos are so much more efficient and configurable for different playstyles than a gamepad.

This is a great example of why some people's PC gaming attitude stinks.

I am a PC gamer. I do not own a current generation console. I use a 360 gamepad for several games, including anything that requires analog input (eg. racing games), the Assassin's Creed series, and several others. The keyboard and mouse is not more efficient, as far as I am concerned, for those games.

Modifié par AlexJK, 01 mars 2013 - 10:28 .

[imbs]

AlexJK wrote...

D_Thoran wrote...

I don't understand why anyone would choose a gamepad on a PC product.  To me the various mouse and keyboard combos are so much more efficient and configurable for different playstyles than a gamepad.

This is a great example of why some people's PC gaming attitude stinks.

"DUH IDIOT why would you want a controller when keyboard and mouse is so much more efficient!!!!11111"

I am a PC gamer. I do not own a current generation console. I use a 360 gamepad for several games, including anything that requires analog input (eg. racing games), the Assassin's Creed series, and several others. The keyboard and mouse is not more efficient, as far as I am concerned, for those games.

<naive?>Why can't we all just learn to get along...</naive?>

No need to take it so personally friend. I don't think the poster you are quoting thinks people who use controllers are morons fullstop - I actually agree with him I love keyboard/mouse but I'd also say controllers have their place in particular games as you point out, and I'd also argue that keyboard/mouse has a far steeper learning curve than controllers do, making both extremely viable to different sorts of gamers.

[AlexJK]

Yeah, I calmed down a bit and edited my post, sorry about that

It's an argument that comes up all the time - "keyboard and mouse are better". Problem is, it's just not true, and all too often it leads to the next step - "you're stupid for using anything else on a PC".

But here's the irony - one of the most-celebrated features of PC gaming is the customisability, ability to use whatever setup and controls you like, mods, etc. But when that customisability is extended to saying "I'd like a gamepad on my PC", people come back with "why on earth would you want that"?

It's all a crazy-ass argument anyway

[D_Thoran]

imbs wrote...

AlexJK wrote...

D_Thoran wrote...

I don't understand why anyone would choose a gamepad on a PC product.  To me the various mouse and keyboard combos are so much more efficient and configurable for different playstyles than a gamepad.

This is a great example of why some people's PC gaming attitude stinks.

"DUH IDIOT why would you want a controller when keyboard and mouse is so much more efficient!!!!11111"

I am a PC gamer. I do not own a current generation console. I use a 360 gamepad for several games, including anything that requires analog input (eg. racing games), the Assassin's Creed series, and several others. The keyboard and mouse is not more efficient, as far as I am concerned, for those games.

<naive?>Why can't we all just learn to get along...</naive?>

No need to take it so personally friend. I don't think the poster you are quoting thinks people who use controllers are morons fullstop - I actually agree with him I love keyboard/mouse but I'd also say controllers have their place in particular games as you point out, and I'd also argue that keyboard/mouse has a far steeper learning curve than controllers do, making both extremely viable to different sorts of gamers.

You are exactly right.  And AlexJK, really?  With those stunning debate skills you've got I better just give up now!  It is quite clear I am outmatched by your superior intellect and wit....oh wait.....

To quote, "To ME, the various mouse and keyboard combos are so much more efficient and configurable for different playstyles than a gamepad."  See what I did there?  I gave my opinion.  You can google that if you need to...

[MissOuJ]

... Wouldn't it be kinda dumb since the Xbox & PS3 versions have sold more in the past?

Also only developing for the top-notch gaming rigs is not very viable, since only the most hardcore gamers have that kind of PCs.

How about... just develop the game to look and be as good as it can on as many platforms as possible, and then make sure all platforms get good UIs and controls that are good and intuitive (like... *not* mapping any abilities to the select button on PS3 *coughme1cough*).

Modifié par MissOuJ, 01 mars 2013 - 10:57 .

[Sutekh]

AlexJK wrote...

I am a PC gamer. I do not own a current generation console. I use a 360 gamepad for several games, including anything that requires analog input (eg. racing games), the Assassin's Creed series, and several others. The keyboard and mouse is not more efficient, as far as I am concerned, for those games.

Yep.

Depends on the game, really. 100% PC here, and I use a 360 gamepad from time to time. It's just more practical, is all, and I love having the choice to use it if I want (although I admit I'm overall more comfy with keyboard and mouse, but it's more a matter of habit than anything else).

[AlexJK]

D_Thoran wrote...

With those stunning debate skills you've got I better just give up now!

Feel free to quote me post-edit as I already acknowledged I'd gone too far and edited my post. Cheers

To quote, "To ME, the various mouse and keyboard combos are so much more efficient and configurable for different playstyles than a gamepad."  See what I did there?  I gave my opinion.

Are you under the impression this means I can't respond to it? Your opinion is that mouse and keyboard is always better. This is technically incorrect (there are some things a standard mouse/keyboard combo cannot do), and in any event isn't it better to allow as many choices as possible on the holy PC platform? Isn't that one of its strengths?

Just to remind you how open-minded you are about things:

Those of us who have spent thousands of dollars on our gaming rigs deserve the best that the frostbite 2 engine can offer, not a dumbed down console port.

Healthy attitude there. Just sayin.

Modifié par AlexJK, 01 mars 2013 - 10:56 .

[Kidd]

When we're doing counter-platform-intuitive confessions; I'm a console gaming peasant who prefers my 2D platformers on PC, played with a keyboard.

[D_Thoran]

AlexJK wrote...

D_Thoran wrote...

With those stunning debate skills you've got I better just give up now!

Feel free to quote me post-edit as I already acknowledged I'd gone too far and edited my post. Cheers

To quote, "To ME, the various mouse and keyboard combos are so much more efficient and configurable for different playstyles than a gamepad."  See what I did there?  I gave my opinion.

Are you under the impression this means I can't respond to it? Your opinion is that mouse and keyboard is always better. This is technically incorrect (there are some things a standard mouse/keyboard combo cannot do), and in any event isn't it better to allow as many choices as possible on the holy PC platform? Isn't that one of its strengths?

Just to remind you how open-minded you are about things:

Those of us who have spent thousands of dollars on our gaming rigs deserve the best that the frostbite 2 engine can offer, not a dumbed down console port.

Healthy attitude there. Just sayin.

Never once said it is "always" better.  Just said I feel the keyboard and mouse is more versatile.

And as for the console ports being dumbed down, they are.  They are dropped to a level of technical skill, designed to appease the broadest range of the consoles user base.  Which just happens to be a majority of teen and pre teen users.  So yes, dumbed down.  Sorry if you choose the gaming platform designed to conform to the needs of the lowest common denominator.

Read the rest of the posts here before you make sweeping accusations and get all holier than thou.  You might learn something.

Modifié par D_Thoran, 01 mars 2013 - 12:47 .

[Nightdragon8]

Skelter192 wrote...

Pretty much. This is Skyrim's UI. One big list for a controller it's fine because all you can do is use the D-pad to scroll up or down.




This is a mock-up of how a PC UI for Skyrim should look like. A grid based UI is better because we don't have to scroll so damn much, pictures can give just as much if not more information at a glance and use keyboard shortcuts.

The top one is NOT defualt Skyrim UI sorry, Thats a MOD called SkyUI

the one bellow I have never seen before.


THIS is what defualt Skyrim inventry screen looked like

nerdybookahs.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/skyrim_inventory.jpg

Modifié par Nightdragon8, 01 mars 2013 - 01:15 .

[Solmanian]

D_Thoran wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

I'm more interested in bioware making a PC game that supports a controller. It's been an industry standard since before ME1, what's the big deal bioware?!

I don't understand why anyone would choose a gamepad on a PC product.  To me the various mouse and keyboard combos are so much more efficient and configurable for different playstyles than a gamepad.

The mouse is more accurate if you're playing a shooter, but 99% of the times a controller is more fun to play with. I can lie back and put my feet up with controller in my lap. can't do that comfortably with a keyboard&mouse.

[Solmanian]

I'm hardcore PC gamer that don't own a current gen console. Even I can tell you it's unrealistic to demand the game be made for PC and than ported to console. At best you can ask that the two version be developed together (which bioware often does, and thanks to their history making gaming games since before the days of the modern console are more than a little favoring the PC side of things). Developing a console game takes a fraction of the PC game development, because consoles are standardised (every xbox player has an almost identical hardware, or atleast very few variations of said hardware), while PC's have an almost infinite amount of hardware combinations from different companies, that require constant patching long after the game is released (which is where the console centric developers fail, with infrequent patching).

[beank]

I remember being unable to play DAO on a console because the controls were really bad....

Then I remember being unable to play DA2 on a PC because (among other things) the controls were built for a game pad (which I did not own at the time)....

All other things being equal, if they can nail the controller scheme then it will not matter what it was built for....

Though I will say i prefer PC just because I can throw it on a lap top and take it places....

[AlanC9]

D_Thoran wrote...

The prone to piracy bit doesn't even deserve to be part of this conversation.

 Why doesn't it? 

[AlanC9]

Solmanian wrote...

The mouse is more accurate if you're playing a shooter, but 99% of the times a controller is more fun to play with. I can lie back and put my feet up with controller in my lap. can't do that comfortably with a keyboard&mouse.

I once heard that a fundamental difference between console and PC gamers is whether you think of gaming as a "lean-back" activity or a "lean-forward" activity. 

[Yggdrasil]

Plaintiff wrote...

 Another edict delivered from on-high by the elite PC-gaming master race.

Dirty console peasants, cower before your betters. <_<

At least you know your place...We'll kill you last.    I do have a dog in this hunt because I dropped $1300 for a gaming PC, but as long as the PC version is optimized, I'm not going to worry about the specifics, particularly since my technical knowledge would rattle in a flea's skull.  As long as the version of a game for any platform isn't a hasty afterthought, everybody should be happy.

[Solmanian]

AlanC9 wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

The mouse is more accurate if you're playing a shooter, but 99% of the times a controller is more fun to play with. I can lie back and put my feet up with controller in my lap. can't do that comfortably with a keyboard&mouse.

I once heard that a fundamental difference between console and PC gamers is whether you think of gaming as a "lean-back" activity or a "lean-forward" activity. 

And...? I like to game for fun and relaxation after a 9-10 hours shift at work, a game that feels like work is not fun for me.