209 réponses à ce sujet

[xtorma]

Apl_J wrote...

Bechter wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Mr SeVerS wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

I let my 12 year old brother play ME3 mp for the first time today. He hasn't played ME since the first title.

I gave him the AIU/Reegar and put him in a gold game. He got top score.

She trivializes the game so much that someone with zero experience can pick her up and play the hard difficulty without any trouble.

You can do the same with a number of kits. 

Not even close. The GI can't do that; you get looked at wrong and you drop. Even the TGI has only 6 gel. There's not one kit as easy as the AIU, except maybe the Juggernaut, and my brother wouldn't have gotten top score so effortlessly with him.

I didn't realize your brother is the determinant of what is balanced or not. There is so much wrong with your conclusions from your observations. I've seen AIU fail completly in lobbies and the repair matrix revive you into a sync kill.

You're drawing a conclusion that only benefits your stance, which was not the point of the story. No, my little brother, unfortunately, is not the benchmark to decide overpoweredness. His role in the story was being a player with zero experience. Instead of learning how the game works: the enemies, powers, etc, there is a function that allows him to ignore the entirety of all the complex systems BioWare put in play. Instead of learning how to play, there is literally an "I win" button.

Characters like the GI are only good because the players behind them understand the game so well. Like I said, if a GI get's looked at wrong, he's dead. At that hefty cost he is able to do all the things he does, because the player is still being challenged to do something, in this case its not get shot/kill everything before they touch you. As an AIU, the only challenge present is remembering to keep Repair Matrix on. Repair Matrix is literally the "I'm about to play more reckless than any other kit and live" button. In the two minutes I talked to him before the match started, I was able to provide all the necessary info he needed to beat BioWare's months and months of game building.

In order for your story to carry any weight. People need to believe it. I think you made it up to support your position.

[ToLazy4Name]

Because it's the last DLC and I don't want our awesome new classes nerfed. It's a Co-Op game. Quit asking for nerfs.

[Original Twigman]

Draining Dragon wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

ZGaiden wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Brb... claiming "my 12 year old brother tops gold with..." is part of an intelligent argument...

Brb... titling my complaint thread as "Bioware giving us the same clusterf***" and agreeing that people should engage in intelligent debating.

Wow, what a MASSIVE nitpick. Please, continue ignoring the post where fleshed out that entire point.

It doesn't matter that you fleshed out the whole argument if its a lame one. It's anecdotal so it's unusable.

This.

To his credit, he actually made an argument, and you haven't. You can't hit the ball unless you swing the bat.

You don't want to swing your bat, if the ball is made of crap

it kind of rhymes...

[born2beagator]

P51Mus7ang wrote...

We need yet another thread on this topic?

You know how it works by now don't you?  The children scream, and whine, and stamp their feet until they get the nerfs they want.

[Red Panda]

ToLazy4Name wrote...

Because it's the last DLC and I don't want our awesome new classes nerfed. It's a Co-Op game. Quit asking for nerfs.

I agree with the guy with the epic PSN ID.

No, seriously.

[niripas]

Play and let other play. Or if you don't like it - don't play it. AUI is not OP. it's killable, it can be sync-killed after auto-revive. Stop whining, start playing.

[UKStory135]

Apl_J wrote...

BryceH wrote...

Imagine your sense of accomplishment when you actually outscore one instead of coming here and crying for the devs to give you back your scoreboard throne.

Imagine a BSN where each side actually gives an argument for debate like intelligent people, instead of regurgitating the same "Stop whining" bull

Damage wise, the GI still wins out and is not dependent on grenade gear, which means that he can put on other gear such as a full weapon amp or armored compartments.

Survivability wise the SI and TGI both have the same base shields and abilties to recharge their shields on demand.  Plus their respective kits have them at a much farther range. The ALI is set up for much closer quarters.

The Paladin can detonate tech bursts on demand, restore his sheilds on demand, has a better melee, has as good or better shields, and is not dependent on grenades.

I honestly don't feel that she is some game breaking force.  If I thought she was, I'd be on the nerf wagon like I was with the Krysae.

[Original Twigman]

Here is an argument for the AIU

/thread

[GoWest89]

ZGaiden wrote...

I love the AIU, and I don't think it's as OP as everyone says. I can do leagues better with my Huntress and I don't see a bunch of threads about nerfing her. The GJ makes noobs gold ready and I don't hear a bunch of crying about how banshees don't chase you when a GJ is around. Jeez, spend less time whining and more time practicing so you won't get schooled by your little bro.

I know right? The huntress makes Reapers or Cerberus on Platinum very easy

[MisterEFQ]

Speculating about the OP.

I bet growing up, on X-mas night he probably wrote out an essay to his parents letting them know what he didn't like about the presents he got that morning.

[DarkseidXIII]

Cain showed the filthy unwashed how to solo platinum with a GT and an Acolyte. I don't feel my solo platinums diminished in any way. If you are that insecure, post a vid showing your plat solo and badassness. You'll get some cheers, but mostly you'll be ignored.

[darkblade]

Sammorbai wrote...

The reason I don't want AIU or anything else nerfed: Extra Credits, Season 5, Episode 15, Balancing for Skill.
http://www.penny-arc...ncing-for-skill
For those who don't feel like going to watch, over-powered options are necessary for multiplayer game balance in order to keep new players from immediately getting discouraged and quitting when paired up with experienced players.

Don't treat them like they are infalliable gods. Extra Credit has good, well structured, opinions. 

Not balancing for skill is something I don't agree with them only. Skill should be a determining factor because player skill brings out more of a kits potential. Just like everything else in the game, player skill is a varible that needs to be considered.

When things are created how it can be used needs to be tested and well thought out.

Otherwise you get poorly balanced stuff like Griselbrand from M:TG that can warp the meta in a bad way. You don't need over powered elements in a game to keep players from quitting. The player should want to achieve the veterens level of competence through learning the game, not walking on crutches. 

Modifié par darkblade, 28 février 2013 - 12:12 .

[Asebstos]

Original Stikman wrote...

Here is an argument for the AIU

/thread

Weak argument.

DR + Speed Boost + Shield Regen + auto-revive + no cooldown + no activation animation = Most ludicrous power in the game. Stick that on an otherwise great class and you've taken character strength to a new level.

Draining Dragon can come across like a tool, but he's mostly right in this instance.

[GoWest89]

Draining Dragon wrote...

Is there a problem with everything being equally effective? All of the classes are viable, so I don't see how nerfing to their level would reduce your fun.

Having something overpowered actually DOES ruin my fun, in two ways:

1. It diminishes my accomplishments. You can rage about how I'm an elitist all you want, but the truth is, a game should reward somebody for being good. If somebody of equal skill level can effortlessly outperform me simply because of their kit, then it unfairly robs me of the sense of achievement that humans crave by nature.

2. It removes some of the challenge from the game. And no, "don't use it" is not the answer; other people using it can do the same thing. You might be thinking that this can happen with any kit if the player is good, which is true. However, it's not as common and if you do have a player like that, then imagine what they would be like if they used the AIU. The game is even less challenging than intended by the developers. Games are played for the challenge.

TL;DR: Nerfing barely affects the fun that comes from using the kit, but not nerfing the OP kit does ruin the fun for some people.

Most people don't play co-op multiplayer for the sense of achievement, they play for fun. In fact, I'd postulate that's why most people play any kind of game 

[Asebstos]

darkblade wrote...

Sammorbai wrote...

The reason I don't want AIU or anything else nerfed: Extra Credits, Season 5, Episode 15, Balancing for Skill.
http://www.penny-arc...ncing-for-skill
For those who don't feel like going to watch, over-powered options are necessary for multiplayer game balance in order to keep new players from immediately getting discouraged and quitting when paired up with experienced players.

Don't treat them like they are infalliable gods. Extra Credit has good, well structured, opinions. 

Throwing out there that I don't see how anyone could watch that and think that the AIU DOESN'T need to be balanced aka nerfed. She's a 'FOO' strategy, which is a bad thing not a good thing.

[PureGeth]

Draining Dragon wrote...

Is there a problem with everything being equally effective? All of the classes are viable, so I don't see how nerfing to their level would reduce your fun.

Having something overpowered actually DOES ruin my fun, in two ways:

1. It diminishes my accomplishments. You can rage about how I'm an elitist all you want, but the truth is, a game should reward somebody for being good. If somebody of equal skill level can effortlessly outperform me simply because of their kit, then it unfairly robs me of the sense of achievement that humans crave by nature.

2. It removes some of the challenge from the game. And no, "don't use it" is not the answer; other people using it can do the same thing. You might be thinking that this can happen with any kit if the player is good, which is true. However, it's not as common and if you do have a player like that, then imagine what they would be like if they used the AIU. The game is even less challenging than intended by the developers. Games are played for the challenge.

TL;DR: Nerfing barely affects the fun that comes from using the kit, but not nerfing the OP kit does ruin the fun for some people.

1 : So just because it diminishes YOUR accomplishments it has to be nerfed? Just because a class is easy to play doesn't mean it makes a player good. I, for example, CANNOT use the Ghost at all, but it's easy to flow with the AIU.

2 : The AIU isn't as powerful as the Ghost because it's a CLOSE RANGE fighter. The Ghost is long range, so before you start whining about a close range fighter start whining about the Ghost.

[UKStory135]

Asebstos wrote...

darkblade wrote...

Sammorbai wrote...

The reason I don't want AIU or anything else nerfed: Extra Credits, Season 5, Episode 15, Balancing for Skill.
http://www.penny-arc...ncing-for-skill
For those who don't feel like going to watch, over-powered options are necessary for multiplayer game balance in order to keep new players from immediately getting discouraged and quitting when paired up with experienced players.

Don't treat them like they are infalliable gods. Extra Credit has good, well structured, opinions. 

Throwing out there that I don't see how anyone could watch that and think that the AIU DOESN'T need to be balanced aka nerfed. She's a 'FOO' strategy, which is a bad thing not a good thing.

Geth Flamer is much more of a FOO strategy

[Draining Dragon]

GoWest89 wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

*snip*

Most people don't play co-op multiplayer for the sense of achievement, they play for fun. In fact, I'd postulate that's why most people play any kind of game 

A. I never claimed that they did, so good job refuting an argument that I didn't make.
B. Sense of achievement is one subcategory of fun.

[Bechter]

Draining Dragon wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

ZGaiden wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Brb... claiming "my 12 year old brother tops gold with..." is part of an intelligent argument...

Brb... titling my complaint thread as "Bioware giving us the same clusterf***" and agreeing that people should engage in intelligent debating.

Wow, what a MASSIVE nitpick. Please, continue ignoring the post where fleshed out that entire point.

It doesn't matter that you fleshed out the whole argument if its a lame one. It's anecdotal so it's unusable.

This.

To his credit, he actually made an argument, and you haven't. You can't hit the ball unless you swing the bat.

I would argue no argument is better than a bad argument

[Original Twigman]

Asebstos wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Here is an argument for the AIU

/thread

Weak argument.

DR + Speed Boost + Shield Regen + auto-revive + no cooldown + no activation animation = Most ludicrous power in the game. Stick that on an otherwise great class and you've taken character strength to a new level.

Draining Dragon can come across like a tool, but he's mostly right in this instance.

you just made a claim with no evidence to back it up.... that is a weak argument.

A simple way to argue: Make a claim, provide some evidence with some grounds and a reason why the grounds supports the claim and you have an argument.

Draining came up with a claim... and its merits (point 1 and point 2) were disregarded because they can't be substantiated outside of his own perspective.

[born2beagator]

UKStory135 wrote...

Asebstos wrote...

darkblade wrote...

Sammorbai wrote...

The reason I don't want AIU or anything else nerfed: Extra Credits, Season 5, Episode 15, Balancing for Skill.
http://www.penny-arc...ncing-for-skill
For those who don't feel like going to watch, over-powered options are necessary for multiplayer game balance in order to keep new players from immediately getting discouraged and quitting when paired up with experienced players.

Don't treat them like they are infalliable gods. Extra Credit has good, well structured, opinions. 

Throwing out there that I don't see how anyone could watch that and think that the AIU DOESN'T need to be balanced aka nerfed. She's a 'FOO' strategy, which is a bad thing not a good thing.

Geth Flamer is much more of a FOO strategy

Don't you dare touch my fire uk........

[GoWest89]

darkblade wrote...

Sammorbai wrote...

The reason I don't want AIU or anything else nerfed: Extra Credits, Season 5, Episode 15, Balancing for Skill.
http://www.penny-arc...ncing-for-skill
For those who don't feel like going to watch, over-powered options are necessary for multiplayer game balance in order to keep new players from immediately getting discouraged and quitting when paired up with experienced players.

Don't treat them like they are infalliable gods. Extra Credit has good, well structured, opinions. 

Not balancing for skill is something I don't agree with them only. Skill should be a determining factor because player skill brings out more of a kits potential. Just like everything else in the game, player skill is a varible that needs to be considered.

When things are created how it can be used needs to be tested and well thought out.

Otherwise you get poorly balanced stuff like Griselbrand from M:TG that can warp the meta in a bad way. You don't need over powered elements in a game to keep players from quitting. The player should want to achieve the veterens level of competence through learning the game, not walking on crutches. 

I think this a really good point to bring up. I feel really bad for newer players/people who mostly play bronze and silver because their chances of accumulating enough credits to actually unlock the content they may want to experience are substantially lowered. If some less experienced players use AIU to move up to Gold in order to actually get a decent payout, I for one have no problem with that.

[Brownfinger]

Draining Dragon wrote...

 If somebody of equal skill level can effortlessly outperform me simply because of their kit, then it unfairly robs me of the sense of achievement that humans crave by nature.

Uh, no. My sense of achievement stems from my career and my work contained therein, not from my hobbies and escapes. If your primary motivation in gaming is to best everyone to fulfill the need to feel like you've "achieved" anything, your cranium and priorities need lengthy examination.

This is why I was bored with the idea of implementing challenge points. It feeds the compulsive and is a smart business move, but really, I don't care about any of it.

Modifié par Brownfinger, 28 février 2013 - 12:20 .

[Draining Dragon]

Brownfinger wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

 If somebody of equal skill level can effortlessly outperform me simply because of their kit, then it unfairly robs me of the sense of achievement that humans crave by nature.

Uh, no. My sense of achievement stems from my career and my work contained therein, not from my hobbies and escapes. If your primary motivation in gaming is to best everyone to fulfill the need to feel like you've "achieved" anything, your cranium and priorities need lengthy examination.

This is why I was bored with the idea of implementing challenge points. It feeds the compulsive and is a smart business move, but really, I don't care about any of it.

So you find no satisfaction in winning a game.

Okay.

I don't think I'm the person whose Cranium needs lengthy examination.

[DarkseidXIII]

GoWest89 wrote...


*snip*. I feel really bad for newer players/people who mostly play bronze and silver because their chances of accumulating enough credits to actually unlock the content they may want to experience are substantially lowered. If some less experienced players use AIU to move up to Gold in order to actually get a decent payout, I for one have no problem with that.

this