209 réponses à ce sujet

[SimulatedSnowman]

BSN is not the majority of the player base, and in fact I would say it's not even a significant percentage, so your initial argument that this takes away the fun of some of the player base is invalid. I would say that the portion of the player base you're talking about (players who are both good at the game and also hate that players who aren't as good) is tiny, but on BSN, the person who starts the most threads wins, as you are clearly trying to demonstrate.

[Bryan12086]

Why are people using score as the decisive factor as to what is overpowered or not? I have seen people use unpopular, UP classes and top the boards. Honestly, I don't care as long as I don't drop too much, backup my team mates, and help with objective. Idfc about score as long as everyone else did their part, and worked together.

Edit: l2p and stop complaining.

Modifié par Bryan12086, 28 février 2013 - 12:35 .

[Brownfinger]

Draining Dragon wrote...

Brownfinger wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

 If somebody of equal skill level can effortlessly outperform me simply because of their kit, then it unfairly robs me of the sense of achievement that humans crave by nature.

Uh, no. My sense of achievement stems from my career and my work contained therein, not from my hobbies and escapes. If your primary motivation in gaming is to best everyone to fulfill the need to feel like you've "achieved" anything, your cranium and priorities need lengthy examination.

This is why I was bored with the idea of implementing challenge points. It feeds the compulsive and is a smart business move, but really, I don't care about any of it.

So you find no satisfaction in winning a game.

Okay.

I don't think I'm the person whose Cranium needs lengthy examination.

You do recall that this is a collaborative experience, yes? Should I use smaller words, because you seem to have missed the point entirely. If you need to beat other people in a co-operative game to enjoy it, then you are a sad, empty person.

My hobbies and escapes are just that. Unlike you, I don't need to compensate for anything.

Modifié par Brownfinger, 28 février 2013 - 12:38 .

[hljhodr_sunda]

The Dragoon is overpowered... The Geth Primes, overpowered... The Collectors.... The list goes on... If the enemies keep getting tougher, and your weapons and kits get worse, what do you think will happen? You'll go on a hiatus due to frustration of not having anything dependable.... Like I did...since early September. I only recently started playing multiplayer again because I hope, most of the tinkering is done.

Point is, leave it be. Stop messing with the game. Play it and enjoy it.

By the way... I've seen a lot of AIU's constantly getting downed and not getting back up... Maybe it's not as overpowered add you think? Oh, I tend to outscore them too with a GJ. Which shows, different players play different classes better than others. Doesn't mean the kit is overpowered... It just means the player is skilled with that particular kit.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Draining Dragon wrote...

Is there a problem with everything being equally effective? All of the classes are viable, so I don't see how nerfing to their level would reduce your fun.

Having something overpowered actually DOES ruin my fun, in two ways:

1. It diminishes my accomplishments. You can rage about how I'm an elitist all you want, but the truth is, a game should reward somebody for being good. If somebody of equal skill level can effortlessly outperform me simply because of their kit, then it unfairly robs me of the sense of achievement that humans crave by nature.

2. It removes some of the challenge from the game. And no, "don't use it" is not the answer; other people using it can do the same thing. You might be thinking that this can happen with any kit if the player is good, which is true. However, it's not as common and if you do have a player like that, then imagine what they would be like if they used the AIU. The game is even less challenging than intended by the developers. Games are played for the challenge.

TL;DR: Nerfing barely affects the fun that comes from using the kit, but not nerfing the OP kit does ruin the fun for some people.

It takes actual skill to use, in spite of what you think.

[Draining Dragon]

Brownfinger wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

Brownfinger wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

 If somebody of equal skill level can effortlessly outperform me simply because of their kit, then it unfairly robs me of the sense of achievement that humans crave by nature.

Uh, no. My sense of achievement stems from my career and my work contained therein, not from my hobbies and escapes. If your primary motivation in gaming is to best everyone to fulfill the need to feel like you've "achieved" anything, your cranium and priorities need lengthy examination.

This is why I was bored with the idea of implementing challenge points. It feeds the compulsive and is a smart business move, but really, I don't care about any of it.

So you find no satisfaction in winning a game.

Okay.

I don't think I'm the person whose Cranium needs lengthy examination.

You do recall that this is a collaborative experience, yes? Should I use smaller words, because you seem to have missed the point entirely. If you need to beat other people in a co-operative game to enjoy it, then you are a sad, empty person.

My hobbies and escapes are just that. Unlike you, I don't need to compensate for anything.

There's no satisfaction in winning if there wasn't any challenge.

And the condescending passive-aggressiveness is making your position look pretty weak.

[Asebstos]

Original Stikman wrote...

Asebstos wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Here is an argument for the AIU

/thread

Weak argument.

DR + Speed Boost + Shield Regen + auto-revive + no cooldown + no activation animation = Most ludicrous power in the game. Stick that on an otherwise great class and you've taken character strength to a new level.

Draining Dragon can come across like a tool, but he's mostly right in this instance.

you just made a claim with no evidence to back it up.... that is a weak argument.

A simple way to argue: Make a claim, provide some evidence with some grounds and a reason why the grounds supports the claim and you have an argument.

Draining came up with a claim... and its merits (point 1 and point 2) were disregarded because they can't be substantiated outside of his own perspective.

Your argument basically revolves around 'if you get downed with a bunch of enemies near you or with a sync kill type enemy near you then you will probably get downed again', and makes no other claim. If your whole argument focuses on what are basically corner cases and you just hand wave everything else then its a weak argument.

[Barge6000]

damn you have a fragile ego son!

[Asebstos]

PureGeth wrote...
2 : The AIU isn't as powerful as the Ghost because it's a CLOSE RANGE fighter. The Ghost is long range, so before you start whining about a close range fighter start whining about the Ghost.

Whether or not the AIU is close range is mostly dependent on weapon choice. Claymore/Wraith/Crusader can all be used at reasonable ranges. Also, being 'long range' is only helpful on a small smattering of maps (Dagger, London, Hydra, Condor) whereas being 'close range' (15m, the max range of Snap Freeze, is more than enough breathing room to eliminate any claims that its a 'high risk' class) is useful on every other map.

[penguins_r_cool]

Draining Dragon wrote...

Is there a problem with everything being equally effective? All of the classes are viable, so I don't see how nerfing to their level would reduce your fun.

Having something overpowered actually DOES ruin my fun, in two ways:

1. It diminishes my accomplishments. You can rage about how I'm an elitist all you want, but the truth is, a game should reward somebody for being good. If somebody of equal skill level can effortlessly outperform me simply because of their kit, then it unfairly robs me of the sense of achievement that humans crave by nature.

2. It removes some of the challenge from the game. And no, "don't use it" is not the answer; other people using it can do the same thing. You might be thinking that this can happen with any kit if the player is good, which is true. However, it's not as common and if you do have a player like that, then imagine what they would be like if they used the AIU. The game is even less challenging than intended by the developers. Games are played for the challenge.

TL;DR: Nerfing barely affects the fun that comes from using the kit, but not nerfing the OP kit does ruin the fun for some people.

L2P noob

[The Answer]

Out of all the games I've played since the DLC dropped, I've seen more Warlords and Juggys than anything else. In fact, I was the only person in any game that I played that even used the AIU. Quit your crying and play the game. People cried about the TGI and how OP'd we was, yet I can literally count on 1 hand how many random TGIs I've seen that were even a shade above decent. If you don't like her, don't use her. The game is in it's twilight. Shut up and play.

[Taddl]

So today I outscored AIUs with the GI, Talon mercenary and the cabal vanguard. Also I got outscored by a salarian infiltrator while I was using the AIU.

Does that mean that these classes have to be nerfed?

Also most people I have seen using the AIU failed pretty hard.

[Chealec]

The only reason I don't want it nerfed is that I don't care any more ... the game is a year old now, if people need OP kits to complete their manifests, fine. I don't actually think she's that interesting a class to play... the Cabal is the most interesting of the new kits but she's hellish off-host.

Weirdly the Awakened Collector is quite fun too.

If I end up in a lobby with 3 AIUs I'll probably just go Juggernaut and amble around the map, placing last on the scoreboard.

[Blarg]

Let's stop whining for a day, shall we?

BWAHAHAHA, what am I saying, this is BSN, why would we ever be thankful and just play the game we love so much? Who would do such a thing?!

[shit's fucked cunts]

WHAT THE **** ARE ALL THESE ACRONYMS?

Modifié par GT Zazzerka, 28 février 2013 - 01:07 .

[LeeVEGETA]

I think people are looking at RM all wrong. Yeah, it's great to keep getting back up, but if it's used wisely, it's a great tool for staying alive long enough to revive other players/deactivate targets/escort drone.

I bet I'm not the only one who got downed by the turret that downed the player you went to revive. In those cases, it works wonders. Spamming it isn't really helping, but hinders when you run out of grenades (for those that do not have max grenade packs)

[Blarg]

GT Zazzerka wrote...

WHAT THE **** ARE ALL THESE ACRONYMS?

New to the MP forums, eh GT?

[Original Twigman]

Asebstos wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Asebstos wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Here is an argument for the AIU

/thread

Weak argument.

DR + Speed Boost + Shield Regen + auto-revive + no cooldown + no activation animation = Most ludicrous power in the game. Stick that on an otherwise great class and you've taken character strength to a new level.

Draining Dragon can come across like a tool, but he's mostly right in this instance.

you just made a claim with no evidence to back it up.... that is a weak argument.

A simple way to argue: Make a claim, provide some evidence with some grounds and a reason why the grounds supports the claim and you have an argument.

Draining came up with a claim... and its merits (point 1 and point 2) were disregarded because they can't be substantiated outside of his own perspective.

Your argument basically revolves around 'if you get downed with a bunch of enemies near you or with a sync kill type enemy near you then you will probably get downed again', and makes no other claim. If your whole argument focuses on what are basically corner cases and you just hand wave everything else then its a weak argument.

you are missing it....

i answered you here

if you want to refute the argument you have to be able provide backing/grounds and counter claim as to why its wrong.... in other words i am giving you the tools to prove me wrong, so it up to you to be able to do so

[shit's fucked cunts]

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

New to the MP forums, eh GT?

I tend to stay away.

But when I do come here, I spend 10 minutes trying to work out why the MGF is better than the ATJ while at the same time being worse than the LIH.

I mad.

[Blarg]

GT Zazzerka wrote...

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

New to the MP forums, eh GT?

I tend to stay away.

But when I do come here, I spend 10 minutes trying to work out why the MGF is better than the ATJ while at the same time being worse than the LIH.

I mad.

Yeah, people tend to shorten the names of MP kits however possible. AIU is the Alliance Infiltration Unit, TGI is the Turian Ghost Infiltrator, GI is the Geth Infiltrator, etc...

[shit's fucked cunts]

I miss the old days.

[ryoldschool]

Draining Dragon wrote...

xyz wrote, in part
 point entirely. If you need to beat other people in a co-operative game to enjoy it, then you are a sad, empty person.

My hobbies and escapes are just that. Unlike you, I don't need to compensate for anything.

There's no satisfaction in winning if there wasn't any challenge.

And the condescending passive-aggressiveness is making your position look pretty weak.

You realize that you are talking about nerfing a character in a video game.  Positions on this topic are just opinions, so no need to get upset about it.

I have yet to see the AIU dominate matches any more than other shotgun characters, unlike the Krysae when it came out and it took no aiming to wipe out enemies.

Modifié par ryoldschool, 28 février 2013 - 01:23 .

[Blarg]

GT Zazzerka wrote...

I miss the old days.

I miss the demo days. And I could probably do without BSN. But I like the MP.

[shit's fucked cunts]

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

I miss the demo days. And I could probably do without BSN. But I like the MP.

I used to rack up points with the old Turian Sentinel, when he wasn't outclassed by everyone and their mum.

That'd be the "TS" to you guys. Throwing "W"s and "OL"s all over the place, wearing my "TA." You know how it is.

[Operator m1]

Draining Dragon wrote...

not nerfing the OP kit does ruin the fun for some people.

If only you said this in the first place, I wouldn't have to bother taking your post seriously.