Why would I want to nerf a great character? There is no reason to. Multiplayer is already difficult as it is and when Bioware gives us a good character, you want to make it worse because its not "balanced"? I couldn't care less if its not balanced. If the geth juggernaut was given 20,000 shields I would think "Great, time to have some fun". And if some 'inexperienced' player is outscoring with the Alliance infiltrator then maybe you're not as good as you think you are.
Why do people not want the AIU to be nerfed?
Débuté par
Draining Dragon
, févr. 27 2013 09:46
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#152
Posté 28 février 2013 - 01:31
Blarg
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GT Zazzerka wrote...
I used to rack up points with the old Turian Sentinel, when he wasn't outclassed by everyone and their mum.blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...
I miss the demo days. And I could probably do without BSN. But I like the MP.
That'd be the "TS" to you guys. Throwing "W"s and "OL"s all over the place, wearing my "TA." You know how it is.
TSent. TS could also mean the Turian Soldier.
Anyways, he's still one of the best classes, and by far the most versatile of any of them. You'd be surprised how good he still is.
#153
Posté 28 février 2013 - 01:34
Hammer2Dstroy
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E2M wrote...
I have been reading the pages of this post and not one person spoke/typed about what they wanted to see changed. All the talk of "nerf". Well nerf what? What do you want to see - in detail - changed??
#154
Posté 28 février 2013 - 01:37
xtorma
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Hammer2Dstroy wrote...
E2M wrote...
I have been reading the pages of this post and not one person spoke/typed about what they wanted to see changed. All the talk of "nerf". Well nerf what? What do you want to see - in detail - changed??
How about repair matrix triggering at health gate and working like an ops pack.
#155
Posté 28 février 2013 - 01:37
RohanSpartan
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This is why I have several characters I play, ranging from every Soldier Kit, to the N7 Demolisher, to the Human Male Adept and the Quarian Male Infiltrator. Variety is the spice of life, as they say.
#156
Guest_Jiovanie-_*
Posté 28 février 2013 - 01:37
Guest_Jiovanie-_*
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Your reason for nerfs is completely selfish. Why do we want a brand new character to perform less efficiently than she did previously?
Also, you can't use the argument of two equally skilled players. There's no way to measure how skilled each player is. Everyone plays differently. Also, by your logic, all kits should be brought down to the level of the ORIGINAL human kits.
Also, you can't use the argument of two equally skilled players. There's no way to measure how skilled each player is. Everyone plays differently. Also, by your logic, all kits should be brought down to the level of the ORIGINAL human kits.
#157
Posté 28 février 2013 - 01:38
RaptorSolutions
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xtorma wrote...
Hammer2Dstroy wrote...
E2M wrote...
I have been reading the pages of this post and not one person spoke/typed about what they wanted to see changed. All the talk of "nerf". Well nerf what? What do you want to see - in detail - changed??
How about repair matrix triggering at health gate and working like an ops pack.
Depends on how its implemented. It could potentially be even stronger if it worked like that. As it is now you are vulnerable when getting up where the usual avoidance techniques supposedly not work.
#158
Posté 28 février 2013 - 01:44
Ant_Ghoman
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As i know all infiltrator class are hard to get killed because of their tac cloak make enemy targeting me that`s all, i don`t think AIU overpowered, beside Phantom can regen their barrier while cloaking so why we can not we had one character with that ability.
#159
Posté 28 février 2013 - 01:51
Beeno4Life
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.Draining Dragon wrote...
accomplishments
#160
Posté 28 février 2013 - 01:55
TheJtav
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yes, it is a great class, but It is not fun to play unlike the other new characters.
It's just another infiltrator with the means to auto revive.
But that is just my opinion.
It's just another infiltrator with the means to auto revive.
But that is just my opinion.
#161
Posté 28 février 2013 - 01:56
Quikraptor
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Define power creep.
League of Legends has a lot of champions. Some are OP and easy to play, some are difficult and reward the player for being a beast. But there's one key factor in that game, which is a PvP game.
Power creep.
The thing about these characters is that they're *designed* to be OP. They're meant to give the players more accessibility to content that is more player-oriented than competition-oriented. Another thing is that they're not that OP to begin with. (Except for AIU, but then refer to my original point.)
The AIU is stronger because she can usually self-revive, but it's not a medigel replacement. Not by a long shot. I'd bring in shield stripping, but a shotgun based Inf is pretty dangerous to anything attacking her.
The Cabal isn't *close* to OP because she's basically a regenless Vorcha. (Dash isn't that great, since most targets have shields/armor. Then again poison blades are stopped, too. So she can rely heavily on Disruptor ammo.)
The Warlord is a melee machine, but he can't use cover, has regenerative health that does not get better with a few kills, and is pretty trash with guns. And he's sync-killable.
The Juggernaut can't sprint. Enough said.
The Talon is broken.
And The Collector is UR where he belongs.
People can argue that "other characters become useless" all they want, but it implies everyone thinks alike. That we all want the path of least resistance. not all of us do. I love using weaker classes and weaker weapons just for variety alone.
As do a LOT of other people. And those "weaker" characters can often outscore the easier to use kits just because of their hidden potential.
League of Legends has a lot of champions. Some are OP and easy to play, some are difficult and reward the player for being a beast. But there's one key factor in that game, which is a PvP game.
Power creep.
The thing about these characters is that they're *designed* to be OP. They're meant to give the players more accessibility to content that is more player-oriented than competition-oriented. Another thing is that they're not that OP to begin with. (Except for AIU, but then refer to my original point.)
The AIU is stronger because she can usually self-revive, but it's not a medigel replacement. Not by a long shot. I'd bring in shield stripping, but a shotgun based Inf is pretty dangerous to anything attacking her.
The Cabal isn't *close* to OP because she's basically a regenless Vorcha. (Dash isn't that great, since most targets have shields/armor. Then again poison blades are stopped, too. So she can rely heavily on Disruptor ammo.)
The Warlord is a melee machine, but he can't use cover, has regenerative health that does not get better with a few kills, and is pretty trash with guns. And he's sync-killable.
The Juggernaut can't sprint. Enough said.
The Talon is broken.
And The Collector is UR where he belongs.
People can argue that "other characters become useless" all they want, but it implies everyone thinks alike. That we all want the path of least resistance. not all of us do. I love using weaker classes and weaker weapons just for variety alone.
As do a LOT of other people. And those "weaker" characters can often outscore the easier to use kits just because of their hidden potential.
#162
Posté 28 février 2013 - 01:57
GlacierRain
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IMHO, imma go with no. nerfs are not needed for this kit
It's a co-op game not pvp
majority's fun>your fun and so on
nerfing/removing/fixing w/e something that belongs to the player in a co-op game that is not game breaking(missle glitchers) or is overused to where it outshines the majority of the game's content(R/R/P) is considered a loss not a gain for the player-base as a whole regardless of how we value it.
and remember that the majority of the player-base are mediocre players not elites so your perspective is that of the minority. Those players can't make the kit work as well as you just like how they wont get the GI to work so well for them. The AIU is not the only kit that can do better than most with minimum efforts in the hands of elites.
don't like the kit? it is not fun for you to use? don't use it. it is the choice which you alone make it is not a choice made for you. you may consider it an "accomplishment" too by your standards.
don't like someone in the lobby to use a certain kit that would potentially outscore yours with lesser efforts put into it or for the greater good of team synergy? do ask the person to change it if you must.
It's a co-op game not pvp
majority's fun>your fun and so on
nerfing/removing/fixing w/e something that belongs to the player in a co-op game that is not game breaking(missle glitchers) or is overused to where it outshines the majority of the game's content(R/R/P) is considered a loss not a gain for the player-base as a whole regardless of how we value it.
and remember that the majority of the player-base are mediocre players not elites so your perspective is that of the minority. Those players can't make the kit work as well as you just like how they wont get the GI to work so well for them. The AIU is not the only kit that can do better than most with minimum efforts in the hands of elites.
don't like the kit? it is not fun for you to use? don't use it. it is the choice which you alone make it is not a choice made for you. you may consider it an "accomplishment" too by your standards.
don't like someone in the lobby to use a certain kit that would potentially outscore yours with lesser efforts put into it or for the greater good of team synergy? do ask the person to change it if you must.
#163
Posté 28 février 2013 - 02:00
staindgrey
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Draining Dragon wrote...
TL;DR: Nerfing barely affects the fun that comes from using the kit, but not nerfing the OP kit does ruin the fun for some people.
This is entirely subjective. Some people would rather have a good time because they don't play the game enough to warrant a challenge. Some would rather play the best character possible and make the game feel easy-- as if they'd accomplished something without putting in the real effort required. Not everyone has tons of time and desire to play this game constantly.
For those people, your 'tl;dr' is turned on its head. Not nerfing it doesn't affect the fun that comes from using the kit, but nerfing the OP kit does ruin the fun for some people.
Your opinions on the nerfing matter aren't absolute. They're opinions. Try to present them as such if you wish for people to take your arguments seriously.
#164
Posté 28 février 2013 - 02:08
Sammorbai
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darkblade wrote...
Don't treat them like they are infalliable gods. Extra Credit has good, well structured, opinions.
I didn't mean to imply I didn't want things nerfed because of an Extra Credits opinion, I meant that Extra Credits did a very good job of summing up my opinion on the matter and figured that giving a link to the video would be more effective for presenting said argument than writing out a wall of text.
Asebstos wrote...
Throwing out there that I don't see how anyone could watch that and think that the AIU DOESN'T need to be balanced aka nerfed. She's a 'FOO' strategy, which is a bad thing not a good thing.
I disagree with the opinion that the AIU is a 'FOO' strategy. Looking at her abilities and the complaints, the "overpowered" part seems to be that she can self-res. The reason that's not a 'FOO' strategy is that, the more you play and the more experienced you get, the less likely you are to get taken out. And if you get good enough that you're only dying once or twice during a match, then her self-res is irrelevant and goes from necessary to superfluous, at which point you move on to something better.
Modifié par Sammorbai, 28 février 2013 - 02:09 .
#165
Posté 28 février 2013 - 02:10
JusticarStef
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Lol, I know they're gonna nerf the only character worth anything in this DLC... *sigh*
#166
Posté 28 février 2013 - 02:13
LegionofRannoch
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JusticarStef wrote...
Lol, I know they're gonna nerf the only character worth anything in this DLC... *sigh*
relax, the only thing that should be considered adjusting would be the max length of repair matrix.. 22 seconds is a long time..but im not complaining. lol
#167
Guest_Jiovanie-_*
Posté 28 février 2013 - 02:29
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I doubt this. They wanted to go out with a bang. I think the intention was to make all the new characters capable of trivializing the enemy factions. I feel that the Cabal can seriously trivialize most encounters if I'm playing smart. Those Nightshade blades are no laughing matter.JusticarStef wrote...
Lol, I know they're gonna nerf the only character worth anything in this DLC... *sigh*
#168
Posté 28 février 2013 - 03:25
elamo73
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What the hell are yout talking about?? what accomplishments?? what challenge from the game???
This game is easy enought with the right kits in whatever challenge level.
Learn to play and stop crying about it, there are more powerful infiltrators in this game. She's just the new toy everyone is playing with.
This game is easy enought with the right kits in whatever challenge level.
Learn to play and stop crying about it, there are more powerful infiltrators in this game. She's just the new toy everyone is playing with.
Draining Dragon wrote...
Is there a problem with everything being equally effective? All of the classes are viable, so I don't see how nerfing to their level would reduce your fun.
Having something overpowered actually DOES ruin my fun, in two ways:
1. It diminishes my accomplishments. You can rage about how I'm an elitist all you want, but the truth is, a game should reward somebody for being good. If somebody of equal skill level can effortlessly outperform me simply because of their kit, then it unfairly robs me of the sense of achievement that humans crave by nature.
2. It removes some of the challenge from the game. And no, "don't use it" is not the answer; other people using it can do the same thing. You might be thinking that this can happen with any kit if the player is good, which is true. However, it's not as common and if you do have a player like that, then imagine what they would be like if they used the AIU. The game is even less challenging than intended by the developers. Games are played for the challenge.
TL;DR: Nerfing barely affects the fun that comes from using the kit, but not nerfing the OP kit does ruin the fun for some people.
#169
Posté 28 février 2013 - 03:28
Draining Dragon
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Jiovanie- wrote...
Your reason for nerfs is completely selfish. Why do we want a brand new character to perform less efficiently than she did previously?
Also, you can't use the argument of two equally skilled players. There's no way to measure how skilled each player is. Everyone plays differently. Also, by your logic, all kits should be brought down to the level of the ORIGINAL human kits.
1. I answered your first question already.
2. What is wrong with the original human kits?
#170
Posté 28 février 2013 - 03:31
Draining Dragon
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elamo73 wrote...
What the hell are yout talking about?? what accomplishments?? what challenge from the game???
This game is easy enought with the right kits in whatever challenge level.
Learn to play and stop crying about it, there are more powerful infiltrators in this game. She's just the new toy everyone is playing with.Draining Dragon wrote...
*snip*
I won't even waste my time trying to respond to this.
#171
Posté 28 février 2013 - 03:31
Gneisenau 19
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Werdnuh wrote...
You are a whining loser.
#172
Posté 28 février 2013 - 03:34
Draining Dragon
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GlacierRain wrote...
IMHO, imma go with no. nerfs are not needed for this kit
It's a co-op game not pvp
majority's fun>your fun and so on
nerfing/removing/fixing w/e something that belongs to the player in a co-op game that is not game breaking(missle glitchers) or is overused to where it outshines the majority of the game's content(R/R/P) is considered a loss not a gain for the player-base as a whole regardless of how we value it.
and remember that the majority of the player-base are mediocre players not elites so your perspective is that of the minority. Those players can't make the kit work as well as you just like how they wont get the GI to work so well for them. The AIU is not the only kit that can do better than most with minimum efforts in the hands of elites.
don't like the kit? it is not fun for you to use? don't use it. it is the choice which you alone make it is not a choice made for you. you may consider it an "accomplishment" too by your standards.
don't like someone in the lobby to use a certain kit that would potentially outscore yours with lesser efforts put into it or for the greater good of team synergy? do ask the person to change it if you must.
Evidently you did not read. I advise you to reread the section on how others using the kit affects me even if I choose not to use that kit.
#173
Posté 28 février 2013 - 03:36
Blind2Society
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Original Stikman wrote...
I will always perform better as a salarian engineer than a mediocre player as a GI or AUI, Period.
l2p
#174
Posté 28 février 2013 - 03:36
Draining Dragon
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Hammer2Dstroy wrote...
E2M wrote...
I have been reading the pages of this post and not one person spoke/typed about what they wanted to see changed. All the talk of "nerf". Well nerf what? What do you want to see - in detail - changed??
That's because this thread is not a petition for nerfs. It's an explanation of why balance changes are important.
You could compare this thread to the Cat in the Hat. It's part of a series called "I Can Read All By Myself".
This is a lot like that.
