252 réponses à ce sujet

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I just tried her for the first time.

Ignored Shotgun evos (Come at me, bros!)

Specced into speed, bonus power.

Run, Snap Freeze, Uppercut to the face, Hurricane to finish them off (Expert Gear.)

Lightning fast refresh on the tac/cloak snap freeze, so do it all again.

I didn't get a big score, but I had a tonne of fun, and was almost impossible to kill. The problem was that the only time I was ever in danger was when I was stunlocked by Collectors, which meant straight up death, since her repair matrix won't kick in. (Haven't dealt with Geth, yet.)

But for running to objectives/downed teammates...

RAMMMMMMMING SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!!!!

[Dimlor]

Can I at least try it out for one goddamned time before you whiners get it nerfed into oblivion?

[Original Twigman]

Dimlor wrote...

Can I at least try it out for one goddamned time before you whiners get it nerfed into oblivion?

you... didn't read the OP did you??

[Original Twigman]

Feneckus wrote...

Kind of weird how xbox players have a much harder time admitting something's OP.

kind of weird how PC players like to start talking about xbox players like they are different.

We all play the same game, just not with each other.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Dimlor wrote...

Can I at least try it out for one goddamned time before you whiners get it nerfed into oblivion?

No. We will nerf everything that is good and holy in this world.

[Yosuke]

Sex bots are good and holy now?

[Brownfinger]

Original Stikman wrote...

Thoughts, BSN?

Stikman for President? No, Emperor! 

ALL HAIL STIKMAN AND HIS REASONING LOGIC BRAIN.

I dunno if intelligent arguments like this will sway anyone dead set against it, but if they actually play the kit and realize that Health Matrix used is still going to put you right back in the fury of combat and will never ever ever save you from the Atlas or Praetorian that want to crush you...

But if it makes them pause, to be objective for one goddamn second and step outside their uncompromisingly selfish concerns to see the bigger picture, then I will sing songs in your name and throw a parade. There is nothing I value in any great debate more than objectivity.

I consider all of this DLC a great parting gift before interest fades and this iteration is circling the drain. There are still more hours of fun to be had, they've played the game for a year without Health Matrix in the game, I'm pretty sure they can play it just fine with Health Matrix in the game. Or they won't, and no one of worth will care. We're all gamers, we're looking to enjoy our favorite experiences until another we like comes along.

The game keeps going regardless, that's the best part. The average gamer won't give two squirts whether or not someone who gets a nerd boner from being able to solo platinum is mad and ragequits because someone didn't do it with a Volus wielding only an ostrich feather. I must say, the hate and controvery make me like this kit even more. Unexpected result.

Modifié par Brownfinger, 28 février 2013 - 12:59 .

[Asebstos]

Your entire argument for why she isn't OP appears to be based on the corner cases of her being downed when surrounded or when near a sync-kill capable enemy.

You also don't need the 75% DR to get out a bad spot upon revive. 40% + Super Speed + flip evades is more than enough.

[Original Twigman]

Brownfinger wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Thoughts, BSN?

Stikman for President? No, Emperor! 

ALL HAIL STIKMAN AND HIS REASONING LOGIC BRAIN.

I dunno if intelligent arguments like this will sway anyone dead set against it, but if they actually play the kit and realize that Health Matrix used is still going to put you right back in the fury of combat and will never ever ever save you from the Atlas or Praetorian that want to crush you...

But if it makes them pause, to be objective for one goddamn second and step outside their uncompromisingly selfish concerns to see the bigger picture, then I will sing songs in your name and throw a parade. There is nothing I value in any great debate more than objectivity.

I consider all of this DLC a great parting gift before interest fades and this iteration is circling the drain. There are still more hours of fun to be had, they've played the game for a year without Health Matrix in the game, I'm pretty sure they can play it just fine with Health Matrix in the game. Or they won't, and no one of worth will care. We're all gamers, we're looking to enjoy our favorite experiences until another we like comes along.

The game keeps going regardless, that's the best part.

yes! buahahaha! BSN (BOW to STIKMAN NOW!)

[FlashAK]

Heri wrote...

Pugz82 wrote...

FlashAK wrote...

AIU with a Claymore is amazing. The Wraith is next on my list of SGs to try on her. Never really liked the Wraith on my infiltrators until Bosster showed me how awesome it is on the GI.

If it means that there's one less PUG that I have to pick up and/or have bleed out like so many do, I'm OK with it. It's definitely going to be a crutch class for players trying to play a difficulty above their actual skill level, though. When it comes to PUGs, the only thing I really care about is finishing the match, getting my credits and quickly moving on to the next one.

Try the reegar...

Yeah honestly she's amazing with any shotgun, but the Reegar is so far above the rest it's not even funny. People who are still using Wraiths/Claymores/whatever on her haven't really understood the power of the class yet.

She was built for shotguns, so it's no surprise. I'm not crazy about the Reegar. Great gun, but I prefer others. The Claymore is just so satisfying to use.

[Yosuke]

Guys, guys...

Unlimited medigels is not OP at all. Why? Because if you run into the middle of three sync-killing enemies (which happens all the time), it can't save you!

!!



!!!!!

This is a huge flaw in the design of this power. In fact, it should be buffed so that you are completely invincible and immune to sync kills as long as the power is active and for twenty seconds after every revive (because who knows, I'll probably still find some way to die even if I'm invincible), because that's how long it usually takes to run away. It should also automatically dodge and fire a missile at the ground for you, because I can never remember how to do those things.

The claymore geth infiltrator, pre-nerf krysae and reegar are/were also not OP because you could still get sync killed. Even missile glitching isn't so bad... after all, you can still get sync killed, guys. And I mean, really, who hasn't gotten sync killed while they were trying to missile glitch at least once?

Modifié par Yosuke, 28 février 2013 - 01:15 .

[FlashAK]

Original Stikman wrote...

Bechter wrote...

Buff the AIU. The Stikman can't use her and he is in Spectre X. I kidd kidd.

I wish I was Bechtacular at this game... But i am not

Until you have some championship banners, you're not worthy.

[Vinace]

Getting insta-revived only to get grabbed by a brute to tell you to continue lying down. (lol) The phantoms don't have to wait to sync kill you too.

[Original Twigman]

Asebstos wrote...

Your entire argument for why she isn't OP appears to be based on the corner cases of her being downed when surrounded or when near a sync-kill capable enemy.

You also don't need the 75% DR to get out a bad spot upon revive. 40% + Super Speed + flip evades is more than enough.

I'll simplify it:

Claim: Defense matrix is not an OP

Grounds: A mediocre/poor player won't be better with Defense Matrix

Backing: The AIU needs to get in close range in order to full utilize her capabilities. Getting in close range requires strong situational awareness.

Warrant: It is generally accepted that mediocre/poor players do not have strong situational awareness and cannot react with fast enough reactions in order to compensate.

Qualifier: The weaknesses of this character are reduced as difficulty decreases... like all characters.

Thats the basic argument.

PS. If you can "defeat" that argument, i have another one

Modifié par Original Stikman, 28 février 2013 - 01:06 .

[Original Twigman]

FlashAK wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Bechter wrote...

Buff the AIU. The Stikman can't use her and he is in Spectre X. I kidd kidd.

I wish I was Bechtacular at this game... But i am not

Until you have some championship banners, you're not worthy.

but.....but...but.... everytime i enter a tournament... Becther has already won

[Brownfinger]

Original Stikman wrote...



Claim: Defense matrix is not an OP

Grounds: A mediocre/poor player won't be better with Defense Matrix

Backing: The AIU needs to get in close range in order to full utilize her capabilities. Getting in close range requires strong situational awareness.

Warrant: It is generally accepted that mediocre/poor players do not have strong situational awareness and cannot react with fast enough reactions in order to compensate.

Qualifier: The weaknesses of this character are reduced as difficulty decreases... like all characters.

Burn these words on the surface of the moon with a laser.
As an aside, has anyone noticed that people making pro AIU arguments generally have better grammar, express themselves with greater measures of calm and intelligence, and the antagonists are just kind of angsty? Not wholly relevant, I just thought it was a fascinating circumstance.

Modifié par Brownfinger, 28 février 2013 - 01:16 .

[Yosuke]

Brownfinger wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...



Claim: Defense matrix is not an OP

Grounds: A mediocre/poor player won't be better with Defense Matrix

Backing: The AIU needs to get in close range in order to full utilize her capabilities. Getting in close range requires strong situational awareness.

Warrant: It is generally accepted that mediocre/poor players do not have strong situational awareness and cannot react with fast enough reactions in order to compensate.

Qualifier: The weaknesses of this character are reduced as difficulty decreases... like all characters.

Burn these words on the surface of the moon with a laser.
As an aside, has anyone noticed that people making pro AIU arguments generally have better grammar, express themselves with more calm and intelligence, and the antagonists are just kind of angsty? Not wholly relevant, I just thought it was a fascinating circumstance.

This is a little thing called confirmation bias.

[cowwy]

Brownfinger wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...



Claim: Defense matrix is not an OP

Grounds: A mediocre/poor player won't be better with Defense Matrix

Backing: The AIU needs to get in close range in order to full utilize her capabilities. Getting in close range requires strong situational awareness.

Warrant: It is generally accepted that mediocre/poor players do not have strong situational awareness and cannot react with fast enough reactions in order to compensate.

Qualifier: The weaknesses of this character are reduced as difficulty decreases... like all characters.

Burn these words on the surface of the moon with a laser.
As an aside, has anyone noticed that people making pro AIU arguments generally have better grammar, express themselves with greater measures of calm and intelligence, and the antagonists are just kind of angsty? Not wholly relevant, I just thought it was a fascinating circumstance.

Well first of all I disagree with your notion that all people who think the AIU is overpowered are "angsty", and I can point to several posts with people raging that they don't want her to get nerfed and all people who do should go play Halo and Battlefield.

@Stikman:

The backing is false. It's helpful to get in close with her kit, but it's not necessary at all. All shotguns are capable of medium range combat minus the Raider, Reegar, and Piranha. And in addition to that the Crusader is capable of long range combat as well. Also there's no mandate that says you have to use a shotgun on her to perform well. She merely improves the already powerful shotgun class of weapon.

[Commander Castillo]

Finally someone that isn't an idiot!!

[Original Twigman]

cowwy wrote...

Brownfinger wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...



Claim: Defense matrix is not an OP

Grounds: A mediocre/poor player won't be better with Defense Matrix

Backing: The AIU needs to get in close range in order to full utilize her capabilities. Getting in close range requires strong situational awareness.

Warrant: It is generally accepted that mediocre/poor players do not have strong situational awareness and cannot react with fast enough reactions in order to compensate.

Qualifier: The weaknesses of this character are reduced as difficulty decreases... like all characters.

Burn these words on the surface of the moon with a laser.
As an aside, has anyone noticed that people making pro AIU arguments generally have better grammar, express themselves with greater measures of calm and intelligence, and the antagonists are just kind of angsty? Not wholly relevant, I just thought it was a fascinating circumstance.

Well first of all I disagree with your notion that all people who think the AIU is overpowered are "angsty", and I can point to several posts with people raging that they don't want her to get nerfed and all people who do should go play Halo and Battlefield.

@Stikman:

The backing is false. It's helpful to get in close with her kit, but it's not necessary at all. All shotguns are capable of medium range combat minus the Raider, Reegar, and Piranha. And in addition to that the Crusader is capable of long range combat as well. Also there's no mandate that says you have to use a shotgun on her to perform well. She merely improves the already powerful shotgun class of weapon.

you make a good point, yet i don't think its too off base that it would make it false. If i put this in the qualifier the integrity of the grounds would still be okay.

The problematic part of the backing, and overall issue with the argument, is that it is based on the assumption that "in order to fully optimize, you must get close."

only issue with that is, A) how do we define "fully optimize" and how do we know you have to get in close to do so.

At this point in time, i believe the status quo believes you need to put yourself in compromising (Close quarters) in order to fully maximize her.

If someone is able to perform better due to defense matrix and without having to get in close, well... then you have an argument that is shot, because that will be a heck of a lot easier for a mediocre player to do well with than CQC

[Acyl]

Original Stikman wrote...

There is no real pressing need to nerf the class. It doesn't outperform other kits any more substantially than some of the other most powerful infiltrators in the game. Don't feed the nerfers

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

I didn't get a big score, but I had a tonne of fun, and was almost impossible to kill. The problem was that the only time I was ever in danger was when I was stunlocked by Collectors, which meant straight up death, since her repair matrix won't kick in. (Haven't dealt with Geth, yet.)

(Bold for emphasis is mine)

Here's the thing. What do you consider 'outperforming other kits'? If we're talking about raw damage output and score, no, the AIU doesn't outperform other kits. Especially infiltrators. I still kill things faster playing other kits.

But the AIU combines high damage with near-immortality. Yes, the AIU can be sync-killed and stunlocked. Yes, it can be surrounded and overwhelmed. But that stuff kills pretty much everyone. The AIU can still live through situations that'd finish most every other character around, including the TGI, Kroguard, and Krolord. I know, because I was rezzing the Turian Ghost and Krogan with my AIU in random Gold last night. They all outscored me, but I was the one picking them off the floor.

So is the AIU too powerful? Dunno. That's Bioware's call. But the way I see it, for those of us who could already play higher difficulties, it probably doesn't make much difference. I think it's more valuable to players who weren't as good to begin with. And there's plenty of those players around. The BSN average is not the general player average.

Modifié par Acyl, 28 février 2013 - 01:55 .

[cowwy]

Original Stikman wrote...

cowwy wrote...

Brownfinger wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...



Claim: Defense matrix is not an OP

Grounds: A mediocre/poor player won't be better with Defense Matrix

Backing: The AIU needs to get in close range in order to full utilize her capabilities. Getting in close range requires strong situational awareness.

Warrant: It is generally accepted that mediocre/poor players do not have strong situational awareness and cannot react with fast enough reactions in order to compensate.

Qualifier: The weaknesses of this character are reduced as difficulty decreases... like all characters.

Burn these words on the surface of the moon with a laser.
As an aside, has anyone noticed that people making pro AIU arguments generally have better grammar, express themselves with greater measures of calm and intelligence, and the antagonists are just kind of angsty? Not wholly relevant, I just thought it was a fascinating circumstance.

Well first of all I disagree with your notion that all people who think the AIU is overpowered are "angsty", and I can point to several posts with people raging that they don't want her to get nerfed and all people who do should go play Halo and Battlefield.

@Stikman:

The backing is false. It's helpful to get in close with her kit, but it's not necessary at all. All shotguns are capable of medium range combat minus the Raider, Reegar, and Piranha. And in addition to that the Crusader is capable of long range combat as well. Also there's no mandate that says you have to use a shotgun on her to perform well. She merely improves the already powerful shotgun class of weapon.

you make a good point, yet i don't think its too off base that it would make it false. If i put this in the qualifier the integrity of the grounds would still be okay.

The problematic part of the backing, and overall issue with the argument, is that it is based on the assumption that "in order to fully optimize, you must get close."

only issue with that is, A) how do we define "fully optimize" and how do we know you have to get in close to do so.

At this point in time, i believe the status quo believes you need to put yourself in compromising (Close quarters) in order to fully maximize her.

If someone is able to perform better due to defense matrix and without having to get in close, well... then you have an argument that is shot, because that will be a heck of a lot easier for a mediocre player to do well with than CQC

Just because she's not fully optimized with a different weapon doesn't make her any less OP. The root of the whole problem with the kit is that Repair Matrix gives too many bonuses for no penalty.

"Fully optimize" is not the one with the nebulous definition, OP is. If your definition of OP is that it trivializes all other classes in the game then we're at an impasse, because that's an unrefutable argument. Because you can point to the GI or the TGI as being on par with her, even if there are plenty of other classes that fall way below her performance and survivability.

The problem with her is the ridiculous synergy that her class has. If repair matrix didn't give you a movement speed bonus I don't think it would be quite as bad, but the constant shield regen is ridiculous as well. The extra shotgun bonus is complimented too well by the movement speed bonus in my opinion and with her ability to take more fire and sustain her DPS better is what makes her overpowered.

[january42]

I would be sad to see this kit nerfed for the following reasons

1)Right now, it's unique experience of being hyper aggressive. Like infi version of the fury.

If they nerf RM then the class will basicly become Ghost + Shotgun: The Sequel!!!
 
As the OP points out, in the hands of a good player, the auto-revive won't matter and other infiltators have better synergy. (Ghost and GI for instance. )   All the auto-revive does is allow you to experiment a bit more and take more chances without hurting your team

I can see the argument that it is OP, but it isn't OP in a way that hurts other people (I suppose someone trying to get revive medels might be pissed, but that it). All the RM does is give you a saftey net agaisnt mistakes, it doesn't help you kill stuff.

I hope BW leaves the EDII as an interesting and unique charachter rather than changing her into basicly a short ranged clone of the Ghost. (Which is what she would be. Even for shotguns that go to medium range, SnapFreeze is limited)