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Stikman's Extremely Humble Opinion on the AIU [Update - check page 7]


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#176
lightswitch

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Randomical wrote...

Let's compare AIU and TGI:
1. Weapon damage: pretty similar.
2. Snap Freeze vs Overload: IMO Overload is better. Stripping phantom's barriers in one cast > debuffs of Snap Freeze + limited range.
3. Mobility: AIU wins here.
4. Survivability: when in trouble, both kits rely on a 'nade power. My point is that in dangerous situation Repair Matrix isn't better than Stim Pack.
Using a stimmy will save TGI from most dangers and give him time to retreat.
Dying and self-reviving as AIU will prevent you from retreating for some time and get you down again pretty often if not careful. Though 75% of DR does help after self-revive, it won't save from stun and sync-kills, and enemies will usually get closer while AIU self-revives.

The only thing not that balanced about Repair Matrix comparing to Stim Pack is its duration, IMHO. Now its pretty much a passive unless the player dies every five seconds.

In the end, AIU and TGI are very close in terms of risk/reward ratio.

Personally I'd take TGI over AIU any time and leave shotguns to Drell Assassins, who has better debuff and is overally better for those who doesn't need free revives to stay alive.


I don't think any of you guys are getting the message here. It's not just about the insta-revive.

In baseball, there are five 'tools' scouts look for in a player. They want people who can hit, hit for power, run, throw, and field. If a young player can do just a couple of these things very well, he has the potential to make it to the major leagues. A prospect who can do all five very well is considered a grade A talent and will probably end up on the cover of Baseball America.

In ME3 there's also certain skills that kits need to have in order to be viable. If I had to make a list I would probably go with DPS, debuff, CC, speed, survivability, and AoE damage. That's probably not everything but it covers the main points. The GI is very good at four of those things, that's why he's an elite kit. The Drell Adept is elite only on the strength of being super at AoE and speed. The TGI has great DPS, CC, and survivability. These kits are very good at some things in exchange for being not so good at other things.

But the AIU? The AIU is a five tool player. Five! She has elite level DPS, a debuff, a great CC power, insane speed, 
and some one of the best survivability in the game. There's just no drawbacks. The insta-revive is just the cherry on top of the sundae. Legend1221 made a list in another thread of the incredible skills all combined in one in the AIU.

Honestly I don't care if this kit gets nerfed or not until there's three of them in every lobby. I won't be suprised when that starts happening, but until then it doesn't matter. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice if there was a nerf so that the core player base could use the kit without the stigma that has already been attached to it. I doubt any nerf would really be enough though, AIU just has too much going for her.

Modifié par lightswitch, 28 février 2013 - 10:28 .


#177
Original Twigman

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Snap freeze is not a good CC power... the only thing it staggers is unprotected mooks...

she also has poor AoE damage...

her survivability is not one of the best in the game

here are a few that are much better

Batarian Vangaurd
Krogan Vangaurd
Geth Juggernaught
Geth Soldier
etc.

#178
Randomical

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lightswitch wrote...

I don't think any of you guys are getting the message here. It's not just about the insta-revive.
In baseball, there are five 'tools' scouts look for in a player. They want people who can hit, hit.for power, run, throw, and field. If a young.player can do just a couple of these things very well, he has the potential to make it to the major leagues. A prospect who can do all five very well is considered a grade A talent and will.probably end up on the cover of Baseball America.
In ME3 there's also certain skills that kits need to have in order to be viable. If I had to make a list I would probably go with DPS, debuff, CC, speed, survivability, and AoE damage. That's probably not everything but it covers the main points. The GI is very good at four of those things, that's why he's an elite kit. The Drell Adept is elite only on the strength of being super at AoE and speed. The TGI has great DPS, CC, and survivability. These kits are very good at some things in exchange for being not so good
at other things. But the AIU? The AIU is a five tool player. Five! She has elite level DPS, a debuff, a great CC
power, insane speed, and some one of the best survivability in the game. There's just no drawbacks. The insta-revive is just the cherry on top of the sundae.
Legend1221 made a list in another thread of the incredible skills all combined in one in the AIU.
Honestly I don't care if this kit gets nerfed or not until there's three of them in every lobby. I won't be suprised when that starts happening, but until then it doesn't matter. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice if there was a nerf so that the core player base could use the kit
without the stigma that has already been attached to it. I doubt any nerf would really be enough though, AIU just has too much going for her.


I get your point about AIU being super effective in everything, but IMO it's an exaggeration.
Debuff of Snap Freeze is the weakest one - only 10%.
I wouldn't say Snap Freeze is a great AoF power - it has only had 250 base damage, and GI's PM has 400, and the difference scales with upgrades. I don't even want to compare it's damage with AoE damage of Drell Adept or Vorcha Sentinel.
Limited range of Snap Freeze is also an issue.

#179
Original Twigman

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Randomical wrote...

I get your point about AIU being super effective in everything, but IMO it's an exaggeration.
Debuff of Snap Freeze is the weakest one - only 10%.
I wouldn't say Snap Freeze is a great AoF power - it has only had 250 base damage, and GI's PM has 400, and the difference scales with upgrades. I don't even want to compare it's damage with AoE damage of Drell Adept or Vorcha Sentinel.
Limited range of Snap Freeze is also an issue.


right?

I mean... recon mine on the drell can take out phantoms (after being hurt) and 3-4 mooks....

In fact, there were so many times when I was in the middle of killing 3-4 enemies within a few seconds and Saints (amazing with the drell infil) would just blow up recon mine and they would all die around me...

Can't compete with that AoE

#180
cowwy

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Original Stikman wrote...

Snap freeze is not a good CC power... the only thing it staggers is unprotected mooks...

she also has poor AoE damage...

her survivability is not one of the best in the game

here are a few that are much better

Batarian Vangaurd
Krogan Vangaurd
Geth Juggernaught
Geth Soldier
etc.


If you think the Batarian or Krogan Vanguards have better CC than the AIU then you're just flat out wrong. Juggernaut and Soldier I can agree with. However what makes you say that the Batarian or Krogan vanguards have a better CC ability? The Batarian has Lash, Biotic Charge, and Blade armor. None of those excels at CC. You could argue that Biotic charge is a decent CC ability but you have to get in close and since your entire argument stems from mediocre players they wouldn't be able to get in short range otherwise they'd die. Krogan Vanguard has the same problem, but he's a little tankier, but you said those people would get sync killed so that argument goes out the window as well.

If you're basing your entire argument around what a bad/mediocre player can do than the standard has to hold up for every character you're comparing it to.

#181
Original Twigman

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cowwy wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Snap freeze is not a good CC power... the only thing it staggers is unprotected mooks...

she also has poor AoE damage...

her survivability is not one of the best in the game

here are a few that are much better

Batarian Vangaurd
Krogan Vangaurd
Geth Juggernaught
Geth Soldier
etc.


If you think the Batarian or Krogan Vanguards have better CC than the AIU then you're just flat out wrong. Juggernaut and Soldier I can agree with. However what makes you say that the Batarian or Krogan vanguards have a better CC ability? The Batarian has Lash, Biotic Charge, and Blade armor. None of those excels at CC. You could argue that Biotic charge is a decent CC ability but you have to get in close and since your entire argument stems from mediocre players they wouldn't be able to get in short range otherwise they'd die. Krogan Vanguard has the same problem, but he's a little tankier, but you said those people would get sync killed so that argument goes out the window as well.

If you're basing your entire argument around what a bad/mediocre player can do than the standard has to hold up for every character you're comparing it to.


I put those kits as ones that are tankier, not better with CC, otherwise i would agree.

#182
GreatBlueHeron

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Thanks for the logical and rational thread, Stikman. Tired of people calling for the nerf bat for her.

#183
Original Twigman

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GreatBlueHeron wrote...

Thanks for the logical and rational thread, Stikman. Tired of people calling for the nerf bat for her.


don't forget extremely humble...

please change your post to reflect my humility

thank you.

#184
lightswitch

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Original Stikman wrote...

Snap freeze is not a good CC power... the only thing it staggers is unprotected mooks...


As long as you keep saying things that just aren't true I can't take you seriously. It staggers most enemies, with or without shields. It also slows them all down.

she also has poor AoE damage...


I didn't say otherwise. That the one thing she's not amazing at - unless she's paired with a kit that can detonate, in which case she's once again top tier. The reality in game is other players set off the cryo explosions on accident all the time.


her survivability is not one of the best in the game


If you don't understand how Drellspeed, shield regen under cloak, 40% damage reduction, and 1000+ shields with 600+ health, and a wall clipping stagger that slows enemies doesn't give her elite survivability, I can't help you.

here are a few that are much better

Batarian Vangaurd
Krogan Vangaurd
Geth Juggernaught
Geth Soldier
etc.


Geth soldier? Geth soldier?!?!?! Come on, Stikman, you're smarter than this. There's no way you actually believe the Geth soldier has better survivability than an AIU. The GS isn't even close.

Modifié par lightswitch, 01 mars 2013 - 12:16 .


#185
Asebstos

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Original Stikman wrote...

AIU teaches you how to play sloppily without the risk of death. Over time as you become more efficient at dying quickly the auto revive will become a necessity.



Aw, my reworded quote has been quoted. I feel special. :wizard:

#186
Original Twigman

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lightswitch wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Snap freeze is not a good CC power... the only thing it staggers is unprotected mooks...


As long as you keep saying things that just aren't true I can't take you seriously. It staggers most enemies, with or without shields. It also slows them all down.

she also has poor AoE damage...


I didn't say otherwise. That the one thing she's not amazing at - unless she's paired with a kit that can detonate, in which case she's once again top tier. The reality in game is other players set off the cryo explosions on accident all the time.


her survivability is not one of the best in the game


If you don't understand how Drellspeed, shield regen under cloak, 40% damage reduction, and 1000+ shields with 600+ health, and a wall clipping stagger that slows enemies doesn't give her elite survivability, I can't help you.

here are a few that are much better

Batarian Vangaurd
Krogan Vangaurd
Geth Juggernaught
Geth Soldier
etc.


Geth soldier? Geth soldier?!?!?! Come on, Stikman, you're smarter than this. There's no way you actually believe the Geth soldier has better survivability than an AIU. The GS isn't even close.


I think you are trolling... cuz the geth soldier without huntermode is extremely beast... with a ridiculous shield recharge rate and high shields/DR its tough to kill...

if you max fitness on a the AIU you are probably gimping the AIU in some way... not sure why the maxed shield/health is even discussed.

#187
Original Twigman

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Asebstos wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

AIU teaches you how to play sloppily without the risk of death. Over time as you become more efficient at dying quickly the auto revive will become a necessity.



Aw, my reworded quote has been quoted. I feel special. :wizard:


Image IPB

if i find something hyperbole i will put it in.

#188
RaptorSolutions

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Alocormin wrote...

I wonder what it would be like to play her without matrix altogether. Could take fitness to make up for it. Fitness might even be preferable, since you have that boost all the time, not just when you use a grenade.


1. You don't give a damn about grenades anymore.

2. Take if you have been taking health bonuses in fitness up to rank 5. Don't take the one in rank 6. It only gives about 100 extra shields. Melee synergy is probably the better choice if you don't put 3 points in RM.

#189
SGreenwell

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Alocormin wrote...

I wonder what it would be like to play her without matrix altogether. Could take fitness to make up for it. Fitness might even be preferable, since you have that boost all the time, not just when you use a grenade.

I have just a single point in the matrix for my current Edibot - basically, for when I get in trouble and need a quick shield boost. I actually find the auto-revive to be somewhat tricky to play with on gold, since it leaves you very vulnerable to sync kills if you die near a phantom or banshee. Also, the game still spits out the message that you died, so it can lead to well-meaning teammates coming to get you even if you don't need the help, and squandering whatever flank / position advantage they have.

If you spec away from the matrix, and do your best to avoid being killed, then you basically have a ridiculous killing machine - not that I'm complaining or saying she should be nerfed or anything :D In addition to fun things like that damage bonus for shotguns from cloak, you're also probably putting five to six ranks in the fitness and weapons categories, so you're getting the bonus for headshots and melee, of which the edibot excels at. (Not so much damage with the melee, but she has a quick heavy melee, which is very useful in a variety of situations.) I was fiddling around with the Claymore, and IIRC, even on gold it's two-shot kills for ravagers and brutes.

I find the weaknesses of the character to be pretty minimal. Unless you want to carry a sniper rifle as a weapon for the cloak boost, she doesn't really have any powers that lend themselves well to long range fighting - she's strictly a close combat character. You also have to be comfortable using shotguns, which do require a bit more finesse, aiming and patience than, say, the assault rifles or SMGs. (Again though, maybe that's just my opinion - When first starting out, I sucked at hitting things, so I gravitated toward guns that could spit out a lot of shots.)

#190
lightswitch

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Original Stikman wrote...

I think you are trolling... cuz the geth soldier without huntermode is extremely beast... with a ridiculous shield recharge rate and high shields/DR its tough to kill...

if you max fitness on a the AIU you are probably gimping the AIU in some way... not sure why the maxed shield/health is even discussed.


So what you're saying is a Geth Soldier without Hunter Mode is harder to kill than an AIU not built for survivability.

Well no duh. If you choose the tankiest GS build possible and compare it to the flimsiest AIU setup, guess who's going to win.

And you don't need to max fitness to have over 1000 shields, and no, you don't have to gimp her in any meaningful kind of way to get it. Snap freeze is a CC power on this kit, you don't need all six evos, or alternatively, you only need four evos in Repair Matrix in order to get all the speed, DR, and free revives. The only thing you're missing out on is shield recharge rate. But trust me - I've been testing a 6/6/4/6/4 build and the base recharge rate is still pretty good.

#191
Hunting-bird

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Do not see many AIU in the gold lobby

#192
Ukos 78

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If were going to nerf a class for having a perceived 'easy' survival trick , then put the biotics right in the path of the next swing as surely just pressing one button to get 100% shields back is just as bad by the logic that AIU players will become bad or are bad because you see them as reckless

#193
N7 ElusiveOne

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Hunting-bird wrote...

Do not see many AIU in the gold lobby


Other than myself I haven't seen any AIU's at all. It's funny though because half the time I get two juggs in a match. Other times I get a Warlord who will get sync killed at least 6 times that match. 

#194
Original Twigman

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lightswitch wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

I think you are trolling... cuz the geth soldier without huntermode is extremely beast... with a ridiculous shield recharge rate and high shields/DR its tough to kill...

if you max fitness on a the AIU you are probably gimping the AIU in some way... not sure why the maxed shield/health is even discussed.



And you don't need to max fitness to have over 1000 shields,


you do.... unless you use gear for it... which... isn't smart

and no, you don't have to gimp her in any meaningful kind of way to get it.


your 66464 misses out on the cryo debuff.... so whats the point of it even speccing into it? it won't stagger armored enmies



 you only need four evos in Repair Matrix in order to get all the speed, DR, 


you do...

The only thing you're missing out on is shield recharge rate. But trust me - I've been testing a 6/6/4/6/4 build and the base recharge rate is still pretty good.


without the matrix... no base shield recharge rate is good...

I hate to say this... but I am going to stop responding to you because you are either mentally deficient or lying a lot...

Modifié par Original Stikman, 01 mars 2013 - 12:55 .


#195
ZGaiden

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ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

Hunting-bird wrote...

Do not see many AIU in the gold lobby


Other than myself I haven't seen any AIU's at all. It's funny though because half the time I get two juggs in a match. Other times I get a Warlord who will get sync killed at least 6 times that match. 


Seriously, I feel like the designated Krogan resuscitation unit. I personally run with a Geth Jugg, he pulls aggro and busies bosses while I dance around killing mooks. I run gold all day and don't give a crap about some "stigma," I'm having fun, which is the whole point. And seeing as how the store does not like to give me gel, I will happily abuse the so-called "I win" button, which it is not.


Edit: stupid iPad auto-correct:pinched:

Modifié par ZGaiden, 01 mars 2013 - 01:03 .


#196
STRANGE10VE

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Reduce the duration. 22 seconds is a little long. RM duration should be about the same as stim packs, maybe 10-12 seconds.

#197
ZGaiden

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STRANGE10VE wrote...

Reduce the duration. 22 seconds is a little long. RM duration should be about the same as stim packs, maybe 10-12 seconds.


It's 15 seconds, unless you take the duration evo, which is pointless.

#198
Original Twigman

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ZGaiden wrote...

ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

Hunting-bird wrote...

Do not see many AIU in the gold lobby


Other than myself I haven't seen any AIU's at all. It's funny though because half the time I get two juggs in a match. Other times I get a Warlord who will get sync killed at least 6 times that match. 


Seriously, I feel like the designated Krogan resuscitation unit. I personally run with a Geth aggro puller. I run gold all day and don't give a crap about some "stigma," I'm having fun, which is the whole point. And seeing as how the store does not like to give me gel, I will happily abuse the so-called "I win" button, which it is not.


what is the geth aggro puller?

Juggs?

#199
Katya Nadanova

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Original Stikman wrote...

 for all we know the juggernaught might be the go to kit for the weaker players

Might be a little off topic, but  I've seen more juggernaught players then any other new kit.  Second most seen is the krogan Warlord. 

#200
Kittstalkur

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ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

Hunting-bird wrote...

Do not see many AIU in the gold lobby


Other than myself I haven't seen any AIU's at all. It's funny though because half the time I get two juggs in a match. Other times I get a Warlord who will get sync killed at least 6 times that match. 


At this point I'm pretty sure people are just objecting to the concept of the AIU.

Every AIU I've seen that isn't me has been pretty awful and Harrier toting.