156 réponses à ce sujet

[sN00Z]

Air Quotes wrote...

And they say enemies are not OP. 1300 Collector Captain burst damage across the map with laz0r accuracy. Not OP. 

LOL. .

Not to mention phantoms sniping you from across the map with their palm cannons, talk about no hip fire penalty, lol

[VirtualAlex]

sN00Z wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

And they say enemies are not OP. 1300 Collector Captain burst damage across the map with laz0r accuracy. Not OP. 

LOL. .

Not to mention phantoms sniping you from across the map with their palm cannons, talk about no hip fire penalty, lol

I think phantoms are taking aim.

[vandoug]

VirtualAlex wrote...
I chose those damage values because large single shots are easy to deal with. However my logic is not faulty. Putting points into fitness DOES yield deminishing returns. The first 3 ranks are hugely profitable, and then slope off sharply. The benefit of going from 625 shields to 825 shields does not give you enough benefit.

When you use Shield Booster V gear, you get 825 + 825 x 30% = 1072.5. It just hits the magic number. That's a good reason to go with full fitness with those adept and engineer classes. 

[Untonic]

I read the blog, respect the opinions and can agree with most of it.

But then again, it's really based on the players, from my standpoint OP sounds like a good player, as much as I hate to say it not many people hav the time or efficiency to become skillfully and tactically viable players.

I say only use it if you have to, and having more into it gives you peace of mind--which psychologically can effect your outcome, and there's always going to be those random events to stop your plan from A to B.

Thanks for the effort, didn't convince me but food for thought.

[Eckswhyzed]

vandoug wrote...

VirtualAlex wrote...
I chose those damage values because large single shots are easy to deal with. However my logic is not faulty. Putting points into fitness DOES yield deminishing returns. The first 3 ranks are hugely profitable, and then slope off sharply. The benefit of going from 625 shields to 825 shields does not give you enough benefit.

When you use Shield Booster V gear, you get 825 + 825 x 30% = 1072.5. It just hits the magic number. That's a good reason to go with full fitness with those adept and engineer classes. 

Shield consumables and gear use the base shield values. 

[cgtrfghj7]

I've always believed that fitness on non-tanky classes were generally overrated. Unless you have 3 great powers or simply need the fitness points for close encounters (ie. N7 Fury), I usually keep fitness at 3.

Also thank you for the effort and time put into that post.

[VirtualAlex]

vandoug wrote...

When you use Shield Booster V gear, you get 825 + 825 x 30% = 1072.5. It just hits the magic number. That's a good reason to go with full fitness with those adept and engineer classes. 

Yes I heard it is based on the base value which is 500, so the booster only adds 150 shields. However that means at max fitness a human gets to 975 which is enough to handle a phantom shot... But not quite a banshee ball.

But I did not include consumables into my calculations. I hope I have provided enough resources for people to figure out consumable benefits on thier own.

I will consider an analysis of that in the future.

[Miniditka77]

vonSlash wrote...

2) I can't stand using a power that isn't fully upgraded.

See, I just don't get this.  Quite a few people seem to have this attitude, and it makes no sense.  Lots of powers are very useful at lower ranks.  Here are some examples:

- Tactical Cloak is the #1 example - unless you're using a sniper rifle, taking it beyond R4 is often pointless.
- Instant-hit powers like Overload, Dark Channel, Reave, Energy Drain, Sabotage, etc., are very useful even at R1, just for providing a quick stagger to make aiming or escaping easier.
- Pull provides very little utility beyond R4, in my opinion.  Anything you can Pull will almost always be killed by gunfire and/or a biotic explosion before they ever hit the ground, so I see no point in going beyond R4.
- Proximity Mine offers little value beyond R5.  Would I rather have an extra 200 or less damage on a Proxy Mine, or would I rather have some fitness or passive bonuses?  That's no contest in my mind.
- If you're going for a weapon-damage build, armor powers like Tech Armor, Barrier, and Fortification don't offer a high rate of return for investing points past R3 or R4.

EDIT:  Anyway, I almost always go R3 or R4 in Fitness.  I don't often max it out, and I never use zero points in fitness. Say what you want, but I notice a definite difference between R4 fitness and zero fitness, even on base humans.  Also, I don't see many (if any) classes that must have all 3 powers and the passive tree maxed.

Modifié par Miniditka77, 04 mars 2013 - 03:15 .

[SapientesGladio]

This. Is simply...amazing

[VirtualAlex]

Just to be straight, a Cyclonic Modulator gives you +100% of what shields? Base or final shields?

[Schachmatt123]

Cyclonic Modulators gives bonuses on the base shields.

[mgc1971]

Very interesting information, OP, thanks for sharing those numbers

Normally I invest 3 or 4 ranks on fitness except on Krogans/Batarians were I always maximize it, but a friend of mine who happens to be a much better player than me ALWAYS uses the 6/6/6/6/0, that it's the only way for him to get the most out of every single character.............if he needs extra shields he uses Cyclonic Modulators

I should give it a try someday

[Lucky]

Tank you for putting in the hard work to make this Alex! Some very useful stuff in there.

I didn't read all the comments so sorry if this was brought up already, the quarians have several values for fitness, you list the ?quarian marksman? fitness I believe. However the female quarians max out at 990 like salarians and the male infiltrator and engi max out at 1050, I think. Also, fortification doesn't have an evo to improve shield regen rate. Blade armor, fortification and barrier do though.

Again thank you for the great work!

[RaptorSolutions]

VirtualAlex wrote...

Just to be straight, a Cyclonic Modulator gives you +100% of what shields? Base or final shields?

Base

[Ratherdie]

I was actually thinking on this matter since the demo. I once had an argument with a friend where my main argument was "There is no need to put points into fitness on a drell, since you still get one-shotted on Gold". =)

I used to put 3 ranks into fitness on most kits at that time. However, as the time passed I moved on to boosting the Fitness to lvl 6 on almost every kit to ensure maximum survivability.

Your calculations show that my initial thoughs were right after all. =) So I guess I'll respec all of my characters accordingly soon.

Thank you OP for this great info, keep up the good job! =)

[me0120]

Ratherdie wrote...

I was actually thinking on this matter since the demo. I once had an argument with a friend where my main argument was "There is no need to put points into fitness on a drell, since you still get one-shotted on Gold". =)

I used to put 3 ranks into fitness on most kits at that time. However, as the time passed I moved on to boosting the Fitness to lvl 6 on almost every kit to ensure maximum survivability.

Your calculations show that my initial thoughs were right after all. =) So I guess I'll respec all of my characters accordingly soon.

Thank you OP for this great info, keep up the good job! =)

The increase in shield matters more if you know how to make use of innate damage reductions. A Drell Adept with Full fitness and an active defensive Reave can survive a Banshee Warp without losing a single bar of health if you also flip or use heavy melee when the Ball hits (Gold). A similar technique can be used with most characters when you heavy melee. 

[Shad Croly]

This is most definitely interesting. Whenever I play gold now, I'm gonna reconsider how many points I'm putting into Fitness.

[baldmop]

For my krogans I max out fitness R5 I usually take the melee bonus . I toy with fitness on other characters but my builds are usually 6/6/6/4/4 .

[NucularPikinic]

 Very nice.

Good job, good effort.

[nicethugbert]

Good write up, OP.

Althought there is one thing I would challenge, maxing fitness on all Krogans. I used to max fitness on all my Krogans until the Fire Explosion rules were changed. This is how I now build my Krogan Soldier to take advantage of the defense through offense that FEs give: http://narida.pytalh...gan/LRPFF//////

He's a not as tough as the full fitness Krosol, but he's still tough and does a lot more damage. I do practically the same for Krogan Sentinel too.

I do max health/shields/shield regen on Krogan Shaman(. I skip shockwave and just stagger with warp then pop heads with Graal. Along the way I prime or detonate a lot of explsions.

On Krogan Vanguard, I skip carnage and go for max defense.

On Krogan Warlord I max fitness for the health regen and shield regen. I max both hammers for Fire Explosions. I take TA and Krogan Walord passive to 4.

If it were up to me, I'd scrap fitness altogether and adjust the game . Fitness is boring.

[VirtualAlex]

Wow you are totally right about Quarians... It seems the female Quarians have Salarian-like health, while the male Quarians have human health +50... I wonder why they changes the Quarians health? Overpowered?

In regard to the Cyclonic Modulator, +100% bonus base shields. This bonus brings nearly every character to the magic 1000 shields number (except drell and vorcha) so it's pretty awesome. You can put 0 points into fitness easily and just spam this gear (if you have alot of it.)

Really the Cyclonic all buy trivializes fitness. It takes 21 skill points to get only +65% shields, while the gear gives +100% right off. Granted fitness gives health also, but I would take shields first any day.

[Dark Tlaloc]

Ratherdie wrote...

I was actually thinking on this matter since the demo. I once had an argument with a friend where my main argument was "There is no need to put points into fitness on a drell, since you still get one-shotted on Gold". =)

I used to put 3 ranks into fitness on most kits at that time. However, as the time passed I moved on to boosting the Fitness to lvl 6 on almost every kit to ensure maximum survivability.

Your calculations show that my initial thoughs were right after all. =) So I guess I'll respec all of my characters accordingly soon.

Thank you OP for this great info, keep up the good job! =)

From the standpoint of the Drell’s shields, that’s true, but
the reason to fully spec a Drell for fitness is their speed, not shields. A
full-speed Drell can pretty much outrun enemy fire, which is very helpful for
survival. On the other hand, I totally understand people who don’t like
speccing into Fitness; luckily for me, I hate Homing Grenades, so on the Drell
Assassin, it’s not a tough choice.

[Deerber]

Dark Tlaloc wrote...

Ratherdie wrote...

I was actually thinking on this matter since the demo. I once had an argument with a friend where my main argument was "There is no need to put points into fitness on a drell, since you still get one-shotted on Gold". =)

I used to put 3 ranks into fitness on most kits at that time. However, as the time passed I moved on to boosting the Fitness to lvl 6 on almost every kit to ensure maximum survivability.

Your calculations show that my initial thoughs were right after all. =) So I guess I'll respec all of my characters accordingly soon.

Thank you OP for this great info, keep up the good job! =)

From the standpoint of the Drell’s shields, that’s true, but
the reason to fully spec a Drell for fitness is their speed, not shields. A
full-speed Drell can pretty much outrun enemy fire, which is very helpful for
survival. On the other hand, I totally understand people who don’t like
speccing into Fitness; luckily for me, I hate Homing Grenades, so on the Drell
Assassin, it’s not a tough choice.

Ah, c'mon, homing grenades are good... To hide the reload into them 

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Deerber wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Good info here, silly question but is it ever worth investing only 5 points in Fitness instead of 4 or 6? I've never really heard much opinion on the shield-recharge delay but sometimes I'm torn between going full fitness or grabbing points some where else.

Shield recharge is hugely underestimated. It's a great asset, especially if you have multiple bonuses on it. Take the Geth Trooper, for example. With the right setup, it can wait less than a second for his shields to regenerate. If you're good at taking soft cover, it's pretty hard to go down with that...

IMO Shield recharge is the biggest reason to level up Fitness. Health usually doesn't matter much as long as you have shields and at least one of the gates to protect you.

[VirtualAlex]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
IMO Shield recharge is the biggest reason to level up Fitness. Health usually doesn't matter much as long as you have shields and at least one of the gates to protect you.

I am going to add this into my post when I get home. Shieldgate is not the same as shields, meaning, your shieldgate is not refreshed when your shields get refreshed. Even if you have 100% shield recharge, your shieldgate takes 3 seconds to refill. This does not get faster no matter how much shield recharge you stack.

TL;DR

Rank 5 saves you .45 seconds of shield recharge waiting time. But it does not effect your shieldgate in any way.