172 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

You know, it really does make sense that Reaper's need taken in "knife fight" ranges. Reaper's insane maneuverability is on par with our frigates, and their firepower is above our dreadnaughts. And remember what the codex says about frigates-

http://masseffect.wi...ships:_Frigates

"Frigate drive systems allow them to achieve high FTL cruise speeds. They also have proportionally larger thrusters and lighter design mass, allowing them to maneuver more handily. In combat, speed and maneuverability make a frigate immune to the long-range fire of larger vessels; in the time it take projectiles to reach them, frigates are no longer where they were predicted to be."

Considering that, Reaper's can't be taken at long ranges. They'll simply dodge literally everything we fire at them at those ranges. They need to be taken at shorter ranges where they won't completely decimate our forces with their superior range and firepower and our inferior dodging capabilities for our larger ships.

[Nightdragon8]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

David7204 wrote...

- When does it ever say he attacks the Reapers without a stratagy?

- What do you think the Crucible is? And the Reapers are on the offensive, not the defensive. He has no choice. What exactly do you suggest he do?

- That wasn't his plan. There's nothing suggesting he had anything to do with that.

- He sent Shepard, and it worked. Did you expect an admiral to personally do the fighting?

- He sent Shepard, and it worked. Did you expect an admiral to personally do the fighting?

The cutscene of Sword's battle against the Reapers pretty much shows his strategy. Don't try to surprise them, don't try to outwit them, just fly straight towards them and hope that their weapons suddenly become effective.

They had no idea that the Crucible would work. Hackett's plan if it didn't work? Give up, I guess.

I was mistaken. It was Anderson.

He knew the situations perfectly well and couldn't give his initial squads a sufficent amount of information to stop them from getting killed. Then again the Alliance soldiers probably aren't trained too well, considering how easy those missions were for a 3 man group.

explain how he was going to sneak int he crucible under there nosise... now if you are thinking "Why doesn't he go in and draw them off. its because thats what happened. With all the assests they where about to destory and draw off reapers. They aren't going to send everything to chase off a few ships... Considering one can take out like 2-3 ships on there own without a problem.

We aren't given enough info to say how his planning helped/screwed humanity.

Also he was sending troops to by time for Shep to get the stuff they needed. I mean if you pull back all your miltary then pretty much, all your base belong to them. With no caustiys, not only that, all your supplylines are gone, pretty much at that point you may as well go Quaren.

This wasn't a RTS maybe it should be made into one, to see how well us couch Admirlas fare against the reapers.

[Maxster_]

Indy_S wrote...

I am curious about the Reaper's crappy admiralty, too.

My battle plans for the Reapers:

Have the core group engage when the enemy comes within range instead of when they get close enough to fire their weapons. Have an additional group attempt to flank the enemy after FTL jumps.

Since we know about the enemies' Hail Mary, keep reserves ready to jump through to the relay the moment it is sighted. Destroy it long before it can connect with the Citadel.

Given the apparent vulnerability posed by the Citadel beam, deploy additional defenses around it.

Keep a reserve force capable of engaging any of the above fronts.

Or just turn magic beam off at the right moment.
Or turn off the relay network, and crush parts of enemy forces separately.

[Maxster_]

Goneaviking wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I still find it funny that sword fleet fights the Reapers....IN FRONT OF EARTH. You know how many shots missed a Reaper and impacted Earth? That's just horrible. You should have engaged at their sides so you are not hitting the planet you are supposed to be saving.

Not many if they're trusting their computers to work out firing solutions and maintaining the discipline expected of competent soldiers.

The Mass Effect 2 drill sergeant explains memorably why shooting from the hip isn't acceptable in a space battle.

Um watch the cutscene again. You cleary see shots missing Reapers and hitting Earth. This is not good.  This all could have been advoided if they used their dam brain.

Meh. Acceptable losses.

The objective was to get the Crucible to the Citadel safely, that meant getting to the Citadel as quickly as possible, even if the Reapers were too advanced for the fleet's computers to handle effectively or the crew were panicking blindly the alternative was total extermination of humanity (and other advanced species).

The fleet was always going to have to come at the Earth because of the Citadel's location. It was unavoidable, it was also unavoidable that the Reapers would take advantage of that.

Neither of those factors detract from Hackett's competence.

This makes no sense. They could easily attack from side, there was no need to bomb Earth at all. It was added because EAWare don't care fpr plausibility, only for meaningless drama.

[simonrana]

To be fair, everyone in ME is a bit of a tool when you think about (look at the Turian defence on Palaven, who knows how they managed to survive seeing as Shepard had to do everything for them from the moment he/she got there).

In fact everyone is a tool in every RPG, they have to be so that the player can be tasked with solving everything for everyone.

[Maxster_]

simfamSP wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

The Reapers were lobotomized as well. They could have still hit the citadel out of nowhere and shut down the entire relay network. They hit the Earth without anyone knowing they were on the way and the citadel is just a couple hops over from our local system. The Reapers didn't even bother to leverage one of their greatest advantages in control of the relay network. Hard to get your fleets together when no one can travel outside of their home systems.

BOOM

Game over.

How the **** does one write their way out of that? ME3's flaws are based on ME2's lack of focus. If ME2 dealt with these little things for preperation then perhaps we wouldn't have this problem.

That being said, ME2 is ****ing awesome.

Simple.
Retcon ME2 so Council(or Udina) actually recognized reapers threat, and started to throughoutly studying the Citadel, and found a way to break(or destroy) master control unit of the relay network. So even if reapers took the Citadel, they could not turn relay network off, without repairs at least(which could take some unspecified time(as much time as needed for story)).
Unfortunately, this way EAWare can't shoehorn Catalyst's crap and nonsense.

[Maxster_]

111987 wrote...
..
-They tried to get there before Harbinger did, they were just late. And once Harbinger was there, a blitz was the only hope of getting through; hopefully there would be too many forces for Harbinger to deal with. After all, nothing was more important than getting onboard the Citadel.
...

Only reason why Harbringer descended from orbit - because of that stupid, unneeded ground assault, which, as expected, ended up with 100% losses.
Instead of that idiocy, Hacket could just ordered several frigate packs to drop forces right before the beam, removing small resistance(like destroyer) with ship-grade weaponry.
There is no need to take ground, mission is to get forces to the Citadel. Not to capture London.
Priority Earth is one big plothole, filled with slightly smaller plotholes; rendering everyone involved, especially commanding officers(as is reapers) - as an utter incompetent morons.

[Ticonderoga117]

Hackett, my man, you were great before hand when you gave me simple missions to kick ass, but this whole losing an entire fleet for no reason and using the tried and true "Just rush them in a line" tactic, you just need to retire man. Take Anderson with you please? That fool doesn't know how to lead ground troops.

[Calibrations52]

Hackett shows the Reapers no quarter. Nuff said

[Ticonderoga117]

Calibrations52 wrote...

Hackett shows the Reapers no quarter. Nuff said

By throwing ships and men at them without any thought. Simply being aggressie is not a winning tactic and he KNOWS this, but does it anyway.

[Calibrations52]

^Agreed. I was being sarcastic. The dude would never even lead a fleet of plastic toys if I had a say.

[Ticonderoga117]

Calibrations52 wrote...

^Agreed. I was being sarcastic. The dude would never even lead a fleet of plastic toys if I had a say.

Ah, whoops. Oh well. I agree with the plastic toys thing; he would choke on them.

[andy6915]

He doesn't give them quarters? Well that's mean, guy can't even give them small change. Can't he at least give the Reapers dimes? Pennies? Or maybe the North American Union that is the new USA in Mass Effect completely phased out quarters and they're rare and expensive now because of their rarity.

[Zaidra]

The Mad Hanar wrote...


- Couldn't figure out a way to defeat the Luna V.I himself.

- Couldn't figure out a way to defeat simple terrorists himself.

What, do you think an admiral is going to run down there with a pistol and take out the luna base and stop a terrorist threat? He DID figure out a way, he asked Shepard to do it. In fact, he figured out a way to do it quietly without losing a crapload of soldiers to those events. Do you think there's a big difference between Hackett sending down thirty soldiers, or sending down a spectre? He got the job done either way.

Modifié par Zaidra, 28 février 2013 - 05:49 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Instead of trying to find a way to defeat the Reapers, he chooses to throw his soldiers at the Reapers, a near certain death, to stall for a machine that no one knows how to operate.

Sorry, but failing an impossible task does not reflect on his skill. Without the Crucible failure is certain so it does make some sense to assume that it will work.

His grand plan in the end: Send ground forces running straight toward a Reaper and then retreat.

The retreat was ordered by Major Coats for reasons only Bioware writers know.

Couldn't figure out a way to defeat the Luna V.I himself.

Incorrect - Hacket couldn't shut down Luna VI without massive collateral damage; sending in Shepard allowed him to reclaim the base relatively intact.

Couldn't figure out a way to defeat simple terrorists himself.

What are you talking about? Cerberus? I'd argue that any organisation that can pull out a fleet large enough to stand up to the Alliance out of nowhere is hardly "simple".

[111987]

Maxster_ wrote...

111987 wrote...
..
-They tried to get there before Harbinger did, they were just late. And once Harbinger was there, a blitz was the only hope of getting through; hopefully there would be too many forces for Harbinger to deal with. After all, nothing was more important than getting onboard the Citadel.
...

Only reason why Harbringer descended from orbit - because of that stupid, unneeded ground assault, which, as expected, ended up with 100% losses.
Instead of that idiocy, Hacket could just ordered several frigate packs to drop forces right before the beam, removing small resistance(like destroyer) with ship-grade weaponry.
There is no need to take ground, mission is to get forces to the Citadel. Not to capture London.
Priority Earth is one big plothole, filled with slightly smaller plotholes; rendering everyone involved, especially commanding officers(as is reapers) - as an utter incompetent morons.

The ground invasion was to knock out the anti-air cannons and ground troops with missiles, etc.

[tevix]

I'm gonna make a couple of points I see at best grazed over, but largely ignored.

1) The beam run was necessary cause of "interferance, lulz" (I still don't have any faith in this, a lot like casey's explanation of how shepard was breathing in space). Thus dropping in near the beam was not an option...supposedly.

2) The codex even in ME1 does a great job of detailing actual ME space combat. Most likely in the real world (so to speak) cruisers escorted by frigates would take/distract smaller reaper destroyers while dreadnoughts hammer a nearby capital ship. We DO see a cruiser blowing off two of a reaper's arms so obviously they must be making SOME progress. Problem is no matter how brilliant the strategy as soon as you create a hole it will be plugged up "Kill one and one hundred will replace it". Not just talking about the collectors. Their weapons can insta kill even a dreadnought, so making ACTUAL progress is basically not possible.

3) This is a cutscene...they either didn't have the time, or didn't want to take the time to show a lengthy strategically sound assault on the reapers. I think it was Brhino (either on this thread or another) that explained this earlier, though in a far more hilarious and to the point way.

[WhiteKnyght]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Let's take a look at his tactics, shall we?

- Tries to attack an obviously surperior opponent head on with no strategy whatsoever.

- Instead of trying to find a way to defeat the Reapers, he chooses to throw his soldiers at the Reapers, a near certain death, to stall for a machine that no one knows how to operate.

- His grand plan in the end: Send ground forces running straight toward a Reaper and then retreat.

- Couldn't figure out a way to defeat the Luna V.I himself.

- Couldn't figure out a way to defeat simple terrorists himself.

- Sometimes he couldn't even figure out the existence of these terrorists. One of his soldiers had to hack into computers or accept information from criminals to figure it out.


...Somebody bribed his way into a job.

Read his codex. Hackett worked his way up.

- Hackett had a strategy. The only strategy that WOULD work. And it does.

- Nobody else had any ideas. Cant blame the man for trying something. And he explained quite frankly that they don't have any other way to defeat the Reapers and if they waited any longer, the Reapers would bleed them. The only chance of success was to do it there and now.

- The reason for Hammer was because the Reaper Conduit was the only way to infiltrate the Citadel. Hackett didn't tell them to run toward Harbinger, Anderson did that. And Hackett didn't order their retreat, Major Coats did.

- Hackett is an admiral. Admirals give orders, they don't take part in their operations personally. Cant blame Hackett for that unless you want to blame every other Admiral and General in human history too.

- Read above.

- Read above again.

[WhiteKnyght]

tevix wrote...

1) The beam run was necessary cause of "interferance, lulz" (I still don't have any faith in this, a lot like casey's explanation of how shepard was breathing in space). Thus dropping in near the beam was not an option...supposedly.

.

Well considering they had several Anti-Aircraft cannons throughout the city(Which destroyed half of Hammer before they were taken out), a Destroyer parked right next to the beam(Destroyers shoot down shuttles, see prologue,) and the beam itself interferes with targeting systems, preventing the Destroyer from being taken out by an air strike(Coats asked that very question and Anderson gave that very answer,) A ground assault was the only way.

[SyK18]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

What about rear admiral mikhailovich?

He tried to claim that the normandy's stealth systems sucked, shepard sucked, and that his crew, including wrex, sucks. All because he's butthurt that the normandy isn't under his command, but shepards.

Real professionalism right there.

He whooped some ass in ME 1...if you let the Council die. 

He's actually butthurt that instead of making a Normandy they could have made a over 9000 cruisers. Not about who's command it was under. He just stated he could do a better job IF it was under his command.

[Cainhurst Crow]

SyK18 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

What about rear admiral mikhailovich?

He tried to claim that the normandy's stealth systems sucked, shepard sucked, and that his crew, including wrex, sucks. All because he's butthurt that the normandy isn't under his command, but shepards.

Real professionalism right there.

He whooped some ass in ME 1...if you let the Council die. 

He's actually butthurt that instead of making a Normandy they could have made a over 9000 cruisers. Not about who's command it was under. He just stated he could do a better job IF it was under his command.

1 heavy crusier, no where near 10, not even close to 9000.

Where did you get 9000 from? For that price the normandy would cost probably at least the cost of 500 dreadnougts.

[tevix]

"Drive cores for 9000 fighters" I believe was what the admiral said. And that was referring to how much eezo was in the normandys drive core.

@The Gray Nayr
Let me debunk your theory with one question:
How did the normandy land in front of the beam no problem?
inb4 EDI's cyberwarfare suite BECAUSE...even SHE couldn't land the rockets on the destroyer near the beam. So....

If the normandy can get there, anything else can get there, and at that range you can fire your weapons at the destroyer and/or harbinger that's just...chilling there and score a hit.

"Interferance, lulz".