254 réponses à ce sujet

[Hela]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Thanks for the laugh. It´s oddly appropriate though.

OT - my best guess has been to explain it with the passage of some time they spend recovering from the crash?landing so the comms are (again?) up *shrug*.

[Slappy Ya Face]

Reorte wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Slappy Ya Face wrote...

nrobbiec wrote...

I interpreted it as the message coming through at that time, it also explains why LI looks up.

Huh... You know, that actually makes sense. There was no audio in that scene besides the music. Good catch.

one line of audio from joker


 
loads of much happier fans

Yep, that would've done it. Not perfect but enough.

I didn't know about a smile (having Tali as LI) but the impression I got was of an upset LI being defiant, particularly when I couldn't see them even having a plaque to put up at all without good reason to think that Shepard was dead. The very presence of the scene suggests a different intention but when intention clashes with what's actually shown I'm going to be annoyed regardless.

This is another big problem with the scene, it's poorly conveyed by Tali and Garrus, I think. For obvious reasons.

Modifié par Slappy Ya Face, 28 février 2013 - 05:22 .

[Holger1405]

crimzontearz wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

Slappy Ya Face wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...
Looks like it is not common knowledge to everyone... 
BTW your argument looks like you don't like to be interrupted in your "Happy Bioware Bashing."
From the outside of curse... :innocent:

Is this the part where we make passive aggressive comments to each other while using 'cute' emoticons to avoid appearing annoyed? I don't play that game. Stop arguing meaningless semantics because you have no real defense of the ending to offer. If you like it, that's fantastic, I wish I did too. Don't run amok on the forums like a jilted child; however, just because the majority doesn't agree with you.

It's, from my point of view, not entirely clear which one of us "run amok on the forums like a jilted child"
I Pointed out that neither crimzontearz nor you speak for all the Fans. That's fact, If you like it or not.  

lol...ORLY?

because hard numbers are on my side. EVERY poll both internal and external after EC showed people are still not happy with it. Where are your numbers? Oh right, in Bioware's hands and they refuse to release them.I may not speak for everyone but when I say number are on my side I am telling the truth and I also bet I have more NG+ playthroughs than you. Just because I condemn the decisions of few people on the BW staff that does not mean I happily bash all of Bioware, only those people who treated us poorly

Not all polls. There was one posted on FB right after the EC hit and it got OUTSTANDING praise. I thought that was a good one because I personally know a bunch of folks who have played and loved ME3 who do not come to video game boards evah but are on FB. So at least from my experience the less video gamey sites seem to have the folks I know actually vote.
Also, if you look even on the BSN the numbers are pretty split. Yes there are more threads unhappy about the ending but the same posters post to them over and over. Seriously, go back through and count.

lol really? Please do find these polls, the burden of proof is on you

I'm sorry I won't. I'm also not lying....... Look if you don't want to see it another way and just want to be 'right' then go for it. Also your post of 1+1=2 thing doesn't make sense to what I was saying but I kind of get that this is pointless so as we say in Italian: buona fortuna!

I do not need luck. Math is universal, in other words I have numbers, number do not lie...while you and other claiming a majority is happy, do not. I will be happy to be proven wrong.

Neither macrocarl nor I claimed that the Majority of the Fan base is Happy with the endings.

No one has exact numbers of how many of the 4 Million ME3 owners liked the post EC endings.
You have Polls on sites where people who are not Happy with the endings gather. That's all. It's not prove, and it also doesn't matter because I give you that, it's likely that the majority of the community is not entirely Happy with the endings.

Still, those who are not, do not speak for all the Fans.
And that was my point. 

[Holger1405]

iakus wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

Read the thread. Just going to address the OP at this point.

The first time I saw this scene was on a high EMS destroy so it looked like the LI was trying to say goodbye by holding on to the name plate. I did not know what the smile truly meant. Shepard did just wipe out the Reapers so the LI could have been having a proud moment, knowing that Shepard was a hero in the end. I just didn't know for sure. And then the breath scene flashed by and I wondered if they even knew Shepard was alive because they went ahead with that memorial wall first. It was too ambiguous for my taste. I appreciated the clarification in twitter about what the endings was supposed to mean, but the fact that it even had to be explained outside of the game meant they didn't really pull it off very well.

See, this right here is the problem with the ending:  Unless you know otherwise, it can far too easily be interpreted as Shepard's death.  If it takes outside confirmation (like a developer quote) to confirm the ending, you're doing it wrong. 

Tacking on "it's up to interpretation" is doing it worse.

LI doesn't put the Name tag on > Shepard breath scene...   Imho is there very little room for speculation. Shepard is alive.
But even if there is, why is that a bad thing? Since when is using your imagination something bad? 
Why is an ending that allows you to make up you own Head cannon flawed? 

[MattFini]

Holger1405 wrote...

But even if there is, why is that a bad thing? Since when is using your imagination something bad?  
Why is an ending that allows you to make up you own Head cannon flawed? 

It just doesn't suit Mass Effect.

This is a trilogy of games that often got bogged down in TOO much exposition (which I never minded ... but it was often one of the criticisms).

I mean, we have Codex entries for everything, and could potentially learn information about every nook and cranny across the MEU. 

On top of that, the ME trilogy is an incredibly character-driven experience. The narrative often stops cold to help your friends (even before ME2's loyalty missions). 

So, at the end of ME3, when everything is left to speculation all of a sudden ... it's honestly no surprise that a considerable chunk of fans balked.

Generally, epic, multi-part series shouldn't end with a massive question mark. And if they're going to, they had better set that tone early on. Otherwise it's simply jarring.

Like this.

Modifié par MattFini, 28 février 2013 - 05:57 .

[adayaday]

Holger1405 wrote...

LI doesn't put the Name tag on > Shepard breath scene...   Imho is there very little room for speculation. Shepard is alive.
But even if there is, why is that a bad thing? Since when is using your imagination something bad? 
Why is an ending that allows you to make up you own Head cannon flawed?

When you need to fill holes in a story with your imagination to make sense of it then it is a bad storytelling.
also if they wanted us to use our imagination they would have shipped the game with some sort of a construction kit.

Modifié par adayaday, 28 février 2013 - 06:05 .

[crimzontearz]

Holger1405 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

Slappy Ya Face wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...
Looks like it is not common knowledge to everyone... 
BTW your argument looks like you don't like to be interrupted in your "Happy Bioware Bashing."
From the outside of curse... :innocent:

Is this the part where we make passive aggressive comments to each other while using 'cute' emoticons to avoid appearing annoyed? I don't play that game. Stop arguing meaningless semantics because you have no real defense of the ending to offer. If you like it, that's fantastic, I wish I did too. Don't run amok on the forums like a jilted child; however, just because the majority doesn't agree with you.

It's, from my point of view, not entirely clear which one of us "run amok on the forums like a jilted child"
I Pointed out that neither crimzontearz nor you speak for all the Fans. That's fact, If you like it or not.  

lol...ORLY?

because hard numbers are on my side. EVERY poll both internal and external after EC showed people are still not happy with it. Where are your numbers? Oh right, in Bioware's hands and they refuse to release them.I may not speak for everyone but when I say number are on my side I am telling the truth and I also bet I have more NG+ playthroughs than you. Just because I condemn the decisions of few people on the BW staff that does not mean I happily bash all of Bioware, only those people who treated us poorly

Not all polls. There was one posted on FB right after the EC hit and it got OUTSTANDING praise. I thought that was a good one because I personally know a bunch of folks who have played and loved ME3 who do not come to video game boards evah but are on FB. So at least from my experience the less video gamey sites seem to have the folks I know actually vote.
Also, if you look even on the BSN the numbers are pretty split. Yes there are more threads unhappy about the ending but the same posters post to them over and over. Seriously, go back through and count.

lol really? Please do find these polls, the burden of proof is on you

I'm sorry I won't. I'm also not lying....... Look if you don't want to see it another way and just want to be 'right' then go for it. Also your post of 1+1=2 thing doesn't make sense to what I was saying but I kind of get that this is pointless so as we say in Italian: buona fortuna!

I do not need luck. Math is universal, in other words I have numbers, number do not lie...while you and other claiming a majority is happy, do not. I will be happy to be proven wrong.

Neither macrocarl nor I claimed that the Majority of the Fan base is Happy with the endings.

No one has exact numbers of how many of the 4 Million ME3 owners liked the post EC endings.
You have Polls on sites where people who are not Happy with the endings gather. That's all. It's not prove, and it also doesn't matter because I give you that, it's likely that the majority of the community is not entirely Happy with the endings.

Still, those who are not, do not speak for all the Fans.
And that was my point. 

Jessica said we are the minority...then refused to publish numbers
we say we are the majority and we have numbers to back it up

these statistics are always done using a sample of costumers, you will never have 4000000 people take the test for you but we have had up to 25000 which is a considerable sample from all over the world

in other words at this point you are arguing just to be a contrarian and as I said I am waiting for you to prove me wrong


also, given the response to it the breath scene's delivery was a failure regardless of its obvious meaning

[AndreShepard2178]

They went to go get Shepard at the end. Plain and simple.

[bravo104]

2leggywillow wrote...

 I interpreted it to mean that they didn't know for certain but they just had a ~*feeling*~ that Shepard wasn't dead.  They weren't ready to give up on hope on her, anyway, so they weren't going to put up that memorial plaque just yet.

I agree.

[Holger1405]

MattFini wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

But even if there is, why is that a bad thing? Since when is using your imagination something bad?  
Why is an ending that allows you to make up you own Head cannon flawed? 

It just doesn't suit Mass Effect.

This is a trilogy of games that often got bogged down in TOO much exposition (which I never minded ... but it was often one of the criticisms).

I mean, we have Codex entries for everything, and could potentially learn information about every nook and cranny across the MEU. 

On top of that, the ME trilogy is an incredibly character-driven experience. The narrative often stops cold to help your friends (even before ME2's loyalty missions). 

So, at the end of ME3, when everything is left to speculation all of a sudden ... it's honestly no surprise that a considerable chunk of fans balked.

Generally, epic, multi-part series shouldn't end with a massive question mark. And if they're going to, they had better set that tone early on. Otherwise it's simply jarring.

Like this.

I agree that there was a lot of room for Speculations before the EC, but not afterwards. 

Sheapard controls the Reapers and her/his consciousness is alive, or she/he merged Synthetics and Organics and died in the process or she/he Destroyed the Reapers and the rest of the Synthetics and survived. 

So the only thing that is left for the audience to Speculate (or imagine) on is in which way Shepard and Li or crew are rejoin.

[Slappy Ya Face]

I do see what they were trying to do with the ending. In my opinion, Bioware wanted to leave it vague because they knew they couldn't appease everyone. Really, it was a pretty clever idea to leave off on a vague note so people could imagine their own ending, but when it came down to execution almost all of it was done poorly.

A hug factor here was the music, surprisingly. The music was amazing and effective.  Too effective. It's an extremely despressing score, which leads your brain to all the wrong places.

Modifié par Slappy Ya Face, 28 février 2013 - 07:44 .

[Mathias]

Jadebaby wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Well we know they are not "crazy"

So what remains is "stupid"

I would say both. Really the only thing that can't be comprehended is how they actually thought this ending would be good, and received well by the players. Although I can't technically say they did nothing, because there's the EC. But that was suppose to be Bioware's saving throw, and they rolled a 2.

Even 1 year later, i'm still pretty bummed over the whole thing. It could've been SO good. It could've been the trilogy to remember. The one that you look back on 10 years from now and think "Yup....it didn't get any better than that."

The only thing I can do is cherish the first two games and pretend the third game never happened.

So mehem doesn't salvage it that much huh?

It definitely helps but let's be honest, MEHEM isn't perfect, and that's mostly because the game isn't mod friendly, so Fob did what he could. Even if it was perfect though, when it comes down to it, it's just a glorified headcanon. I would've prefered to see Bioware swallow their pride and do the right thing. If they weren't gonna get rid of Casper the Genocidal Ghost, they should've at least had a post breath scene. 

I guess their reasoning is that they didn't want people steering towards Destroy since Shepard lives, but the majority were already picking Destroy anyway. And that was back when Destroy created a galactic dark age. So wtf? It seems like they were a bit on the bitter side that most people weren't picking their glorious green ending.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 28 février 2013 - 07:44 .

[Iakus]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

It definitely helps but let's be honest, MEHEM isn't perfect, and that's mostly because the game isn't mod friendly, so Fob did what he could. Even if it was perfect though, when it comes down to it, it's just a glorified headcanon. I would've prefered to see Bioware swallow their pride and do the right thing. If they weren't gonna get rid of Casper the Genocidal Ghost, they should've at least had a post breath scene. 

I guess their reasoning is that they didn't want people steering towards Destroy since Shepard lives, but the majority were already picking Destroy anyway. And that was back when Destroy created a galactic dark age. So wtf? It seems like they were a bit on the bitter side that most people weren't picking their glorious green ending.

Well, given the next ME game will almost certainly not have anything to do with Shepard, I say "frak it" and use the ending I want, which is MEHEM.  Yeah it would have been better if Bioware had actually went and made such an ending themselves (for one thing, I'll feel kinda odd purchasing DLC, since it's MrFob, not Bioware, that rekindled my desire to play ME3 to begin with.) 

So, yeah, we were told we were as much the architects of the game as they were.  We were told there is no canon ending.  We were told we shaped the story with our choices.  So I say seize that power, take it to its natural conclusion.  Do what Bioware can't or won't do and give your Shepard the ending he or she deserves. 

If Bioware wants "speculations" then fine:  this is where my speculation takes me. And now it's just as valid as your own speculations.  

[Obadiah]

I got two interpretations, only from a couple of Destroy endings I played.

1) Shep's lover sensed Shep was alive at the last minute in one of those "I can feel he's not dead moments" and so refused to put up the plaque. This is more plausible with Liara since Shep and her mind ****.

2) As Shep's lover was about to put up the plaque, she sensed her warrior partner had finally found peace and passed on. Just didn't put up the plaque.

I'm sure there are other interpretations. Enjoy your hopeless confusion MWAHAHAHAHA.....

[Slappy Ya Face]

Obadiah wrote...

I got two interpretations, only from a couple of Destroy endings I played.

1) Shep's lover sensed Shep was alive at the last minute in one of those "I can feel he's not dead moments" and so refused to put up the plaque. This is more plausible with Liara since Shep and her mind ****.

2) As Shep's lover was about to put up the plaque, she sensed her warrior partner had finally found peace and passed on. Just didn't put up the plaque.

I'm sure there are other interpretations. Enjoy your hopeless confusion MWAHAHAHAHA.....

Doesn't matter, had wrex. 

[NRieh]

It does not have any kind of sense in "perfect red", because if they know Anderson's dead - they should know that Shep is either alive or MIA. Both are bad reasons to stand in front of memory wall holding some plaque.

And also. I have no idea who "Commander Shepard" is, because this is neither her name nor rank. If they needed it to happen right - they should have set name to variable. Seeing your VERY OWN name for the first time during the game - would have looked good. Anyway, "perfect red" should have no Shepard plaque at all. That would look much better, and that would make some sense.

[Jassu1979]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Or option 3: it's not in chronological order. This seems more likely considering the epilogue came before both the memorial plaque and breath scene. If they can't definitively tell if Shepard is dead or alive during the memorial plaque then it could mean that Shepard is up and about without the immediate notice of the rescue team.

That's still option no.1: the memorial scene takes place at a time when the Normandy has been repaired, suggesting a time frame of at LEAST a couple of days between the crash and the final take-off.
And as I said, it's more than unlikely that any of the crew would be willing to declare Shepard dead without DEFINITE confirmation - not after ME2, not after going through such great lengths to recover her corpse and then seeing her restored to life once before. It totally contradicts everything we know about some of the most central characters:
Liara went to enormous lengths once before, Joker is still smarting over what happened when the first Normandy was destroyed, Garrus pledges endless loyalty just before the final mission and so on and so forth: none of that adds up to: "Hey, we don't know what happened to the commander. Let's assume she's dead and gone, and put her name on the wall."

[Jassu1979]

Jadebaby wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...


also, the EC was not a chance roll, bioware KNEW what the fans wanted and just chose to deliver something else

 
 

No, Bioware didn't deliver exactly what you wanted, and that's the reason you are mad.

Don't pretend that you, or anyone else who doesn't liked the endings, are speaking for all
the fans. You don't, you never did.

He can speak for me.

And me.
And thousands of other disappointed fans who wanted a new ending, not a polished version of the previous one.
That's what the "Retake"-movement was all about, right from the start.

[Iakus]

Jassu1979 wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...


also, the EC was not a chance roll, bioware KNEW what the fans wanted and just chose to deliver something else

 
 

No, Bioware didn't deliver exactly what you wanted, and that's the reason you are mad.

Don't pretend that you, or anyone else who doesn't liked the endings, are speaking for all
the fans. You don't, you never did.

He can speak for me.

And me.
And thousands of other disappointed fans who wanted a new ending, not a polished version of the previous one.
That's what the "Retake"-movement was all about, right from the start.

And me too.

[v0rt3x22]

My interpretation?

Well let's see:

- Shepard can be seen moving in one or more endings (can't remember if this only happens now in the red ending)

- Crew is reluctant on putting the plate up

- Old guy says to kid: "One last story about the shepard".

I don't know what drove BioWare to spread all this stuff in the media about Mass Effect 4 being not about Shepard - but to me - all these things scream: Cliffhanger Ending! Moar to come!

[Jassu1979]

MegaSovereign wrote...
 I think most people can clearly understand the intention of plaque not being put up + breath scene.

The intention behind it is obvious.
The execution, however, is plain terrible.

As I said: if they - or anybody else -  haven't even looked for the body yet, (and thus received SOME form of confirmation that Shepard is indeed dead and gone) a memorial scene makes no sense. None whatsoever.

In the context of Control and Synthesis, the situation is quite different: there may not be a body, but that in itself tells them a lot. Here, there's not only a body, but Shepard is actually alive, just waiting to be found. Would anybody be so careless as to NOT check for survivors before they proceed with what amounts to a funeral ceremony?

"Hey, remember how we went looking for Shepard's corpse after the first Normandy was destroyed? And how Cerberus managed to patch her up even though she was toast?"
"Yeah, let's not do that again. Too much effort. Let's put a symbolical headstone on the wall instead. It's not as if things are going to get awkward if the commander has actually survived the Crucible's pulse."

Modifié par Jassu1979, 28 février 2013 - 11:16 .

[crimzontearz]

Feels loved

[v0rt3x22]

Jassu1979 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...
 I think most people can clearly understand the intention of plaque not being put up + breath scene.

The intention behind it is obvious.
The execution, however, is plain terrible.

I agree. Execution was terrible. 

I can settle for a 'Hero must die' theme - where Shepard sacrifices himself - and I could've dealt with a lot of endings actually - but the one we got was....anti-climatic really.

There were so many "WTF" moments - it ruined the whole thing.
And then EC even changed a whole lot of things - so I'm not sure at this point what to believe.

Do we have "two" endings now? (since EC is optional)

Poor execution.

[Holger1405]

Slappy Ya Face wrote...

I do see what they were trying to do with the ending. In my opinion, Bioware wanted to leave it vague because they knew they couldn't appease everyone. Really, it was a pretty clever idea to leave off on a vague note so people could imagine their own ending, but when it came down to execution almost all of it was done poorly.

We are talking about the original endings? Then I agree.

A hug factor here was the music, surprisingly. The music was amazing and effective.  Too effective. It's an extremely despressing score, which leads your brain to all the wrong places.

That is imho true without a doubt.