254 réponses à ce sujet

[Holger1405]

Jassu1979 wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...


also, the EC was not a chance roll, bioware KNEW what the fans wanted and just chose to deliver something else

 
 

No, Bioware didn't deliver exactly what you wanted, and that's the reason you are mad.

Don't pretend that you, or anyone else who doesn't liked the endings, are speaking for all
the fans. You don't, you never did.

He can speak for me.

And me.
And thousands of other disappointed fans who wanted a new ending, not a polished version of the previous one.
That's what the "Retake"-movement was all about, right from the start.

That's true of course, and I said it before, you have every right to speak out against the endings.
 
But you don't have the right to claim that you or anyone else who is anti ending speaks for the entire Fan base. In a lot of posts here on BSN it sure sounds that way.

There are plenty of ME Fans who are Happy or at least OK with the endings and don't want Bioware to change them.

Even if you are right, and the Majority of the Fan base is anti ending, it is still Bioware's Game, and they have every right to end it as they see fit.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Moving the topic back more on topic, first Shepard I took through with EC installed was my main Renegade FemShep, I knew I'd get the breath and she had Garrus as her lover. The way I see it specially for her is that he remembered what he said to her before the final push... and so he smiled and looked up and didn't put it on the wall because he knows she is up there in that bar looking down on him and so spiritually she is still alive to him thus not needing to be placed on the wall.

Whilst this wasn't the ending I would have seen that particular playthrough end (my ideal ending for that particular Shepard and Garrus is that they lived to tell the tale and retired to some remote planet and found a small measure of peace, that many seek but few ever find. But I was still very happy with how it went with the EC added, as it summed up the words Garrus and Shepard said both before the final push and as the Normandy took Garrus to safety

Others where they get the breath and destroy its either a case of them not believing Shep is dead as seen Shep come through tough stuff before or some other reason.

As for the ones who do put it on the wall, they either just have a gut feeling Shep is dead or the scene occurs at such a time where they somehow have had word of Shepard's body not being recovered/found or found dead.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 01 mars 2013 - 12:36 .

[mechalynx]

Shep's dead. The one putting up the plaque is either aware of the fact or refuses to give up hope.

[zAlmightyMeehow]

I don't really thing this scene is meaningful. I suppose it was meant to add to the overall "effect" but does it really? If Shepard's dead or changed into Space Shepard (Space Scumbag) or whatnot, it still gives us no hope to see what happens next. If BioWare didn't care about fans hating the ending and selling us some bull**** DLC (which were basically cut from the original product), then they won't care about us wanting to see some proper epilogue.

[Slappy Ya Face]

mechalynx wrote...

Shep's dead. The one putting up the plaque is either aware of the fact or refuses to give up hope.

This comment makes so little sense I'm just not going to bother saying anything more than: You're wrong.

[mechalynx]

Slappy Ya Face wrote...

mechalynx wrote...

Shep's dead. The one putting up the plaque is either aware of the fact or refuses to give up hope.

This comment makes so little sense I'm just not going to bother saying anything more than: You're wrong.

I think it's safe to say that if the LI hesitates to put up Shep's name on the wall, then the body has not been found. In the blue ending ReaperShep probably announces the human's demise. 

I have no idea about the green ending, 'cause none of it ever made any sense to me.

I don't believe SHepard survived Destroy. I applaud people's optimism, but my Shep's dead as a door nail.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

If they did it like this:

First play of High EMS Destroy --

1) Memorial scene -- LI puts name on wall
2) Normandy takes off
3) Breath scene
4) cut to credits

NG+ High EMS Destroy --

1) Normandy takes off
2) Memorial scene -- LI starts to put name on wall, stops, turns, smiles, starts to move
3) FTB > Credits

How would you have felt then?

Naturally everyone would have "heard" via some kind of leak that there was a secret ending.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 01 mars 2013 - 03:43 .

[Landon7001]

THE FACT IS we shouldn't be having to ask and wonder about this. We payed for a conclusion, WE SHOULDNT HAVE TO WRITE ONE IN OUT HEADS.....so unsatisfying and anti-climatic

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Landon7001 wrote...

THE FACT IS we shouldn't be having to ask and wonder about this. We payed for a conclusion, WE SHOULDNT HAVE TO WRITE ONE IN OUT HEADS.....so unsatisfying and anti-climatic

I'm not arguing with you. I'm asking you a question.

The point is that in the game it is left to question, whereas in my example in the NG+ it is obvious that Shepard just came aboard the Normandy and the LI is moving toward him/her. That's the correct order of the cutscenes. In the NG+ the breath scene is unnecessary.

It is made obvious because in the first play the LI puts the plaque on the wall, and you get the breath scene. In the second .. you follow me. You're not writing it in your head anymore.

My Shepard got picked up by EDI in a shuttle before the crucible fired. I saw it in MEHEM.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 01 mars 2013 - 03:45 .

[Slappy Ya Face]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

If they did it like this:

First play of High EMS Destroy --

1) Memorial scene -- LI puts name on wall
2) Normandy takes off
3) Breath scene
4) cut to credits

NG+ High EMS Destroy --

1) Normandy takes off
2) Memorial scene -- LI starts to put name on wall, stops, turns, smiles, starts to move
3) FTB > Credits

How would you have felt then?

Naturally everyone would have "heard" via some kind of leak that there was a secret ending.

This would have been better, but not by much. 

[BearlyHere]

Holger1405 wrote...


That's true of course, and I said it before, you have every right to speak out against the endings.
 
But you don't have the right to claim that you or anyone else who is anti ending speaks for the entire Fan base. In a lot of posts here on BSN it sure sounds that way.

There are plenty of ME Fans who are Happy or at least OK with the endings and don't want Bioware to change them.

Even if you are right, and the Majority of the Fan base is anti ending, it is still Bioware's Game, and they have every right to end it as they see fit.

Why is it every pro-ender seems to be saying, "Well I'm satisfied, so it doesn't matter if the majority isn't? Go away before they change things, and then I won't be happy."

I don't think it would matter if it was "Bioware's game" if you weren't satisfied too. Bioware is a commercial entity selling a product. They may have the right to their "art,"  but as paying customers, we deserve satisfaction. No business could exist for long if customers were treated like Bioware's have.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Well, once I've got everything loaded on my PC, I'm taking my all my XBox copies of ME down to Game Stop for trade. I'll never play it on the 360 again. Only on the PC with texture mods and stuff and MEHEM. I don't see a point in suffering anymore with the official endings. I've pretty much decided to migrate to the PC anyway.

[wright1978]

Landon7001 wrote...

THE FACT IS we shouldn't be having to ask and wonder about this. We payed for a conclusion, WE SHOULDNT HAVE TO WRITE ONE IN OUT HEADS.....so unsatisfying and anti-climatic

Yeah especially when they created a dlc for the purpose of clarification/closure and then cheaply clung to their ambiguity excuse instead.

[Han Shot First]

I don't think your crew knows. After all they were about to go forward with the memorial ceremony, which suggests that for the most part they do think Shepard is dead.

The character that hesitates in pinning Shepard's name on the wall however, has last minute doubts. I don't think there is any explanation for that hesitation however beyond it just being that character's hunch that Shepard might still be alive..

[iamthedave3]

I wonder how the crew would respond to finding out about Control Reaper Shepherd, now that it's been mentioned... I'd think Liara would be pretty horrified, and Javik would be all "BURNINATE! BURNINATE! BURRRRNINAAAAATE!"

Modifié par iamthedave3, 01 mars 2013 - 09:41 .

[ElementL09]

Anyone else alittle disappointed that they didn't even bother to put Shepards first name on it? Sure I'm Commander Shepard, but I have a first name.

Modifié par ElementL09, 01 mars 2013 - 10:45 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Your first name is "Commander".

[Jassu1979]

Holger1405 wrote...
Even if you are right, and the Majority of the Fan base is anti ending, it is still Bioware's Game, and they have every right to end it as they see fit.

That's not how a business works - and Bioware is first and foremost a business trying to sell a product.

Does the phrase "the customer is always right" ring a bell? Of course they can do whatever they like with their franchise (just as George Lucas did in horrible, horrible ways with the Star Wars saga), but at the end of the day, it's the customers' purses that decide. Maybe there are enough new shooter fans out there who like the dumbed-down, streamlined gameplay and the terrible endings. But that'd be seriously bad news for the kind of quality games Bioware used to publish before being swallowed by EA.

And last but not least, I give you Sherlock Holmes: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wanted to kill him off, feeling that he wanted to write something else and not be stuck with that character. His readers rioted, and Conan Doyle retconned the death at Reichenbach falls to be a clever ruse.
Suffice to say that some of the best and most well-remembered Holmes-tales were written AFTER this happened.

Now, I would not go so far as to say that pandering to the masses is ALWAYS a good idea. But in the case of Mass Effect 3, I dare to claim that fans like me did NOT campaign for a dumbed down feel-good ending. If anything, the conclusion we received was too glaringly simplistic, too shoddily written to give the trilogy the conclusion it deserved.
I still can't watch the Normandy evacuation scene without feeling intellectually insulted. I still cannot listen to the Catalyst without cringing at almost every ham-fisted, pretentious line.

As far as I am concerned, Mac Walters dropped the ball and refused to pick it up even after being called on it, instead going into sulk-mode and insisting that he'd always intended for the ball to go exactly where it is now.

See, I dare say that I have a pretty good hunch as to where they WANTED to go with the ending. It's just not where they end up.

Modifié par Jassu1979, 01 mars 2013 - 11:05 .

[Dieb]

Han Shot First wrote...

I don't think your crew knows. After all they were about to go forward with the memorial ceremony, which suggests that for the most part they do think Shepard is dead.

The character that hesitates in pinning Shepard's name on the wall however, has last minute doubts. I don't think there is any explanation for that hesitation however beyond it just being that character's hunch that Shepard might still be alive..

As many times before, I agree with you. Given he's previous record on the whole "staying dead" thing, I'd be hesitant to declare him KIA as well.

They put Dave's & Shepard's names up there because they are known to be the only two that make it to the citadel. Then he/she decides to at least look for bodies first, but with more "hunches and hopes" in their face, than plain rational "making sure".

Basically, Ashley was an avatar of myself in that scene.

[Nightdragon8]

Slappy Ya Face wrote...

So... Obviously they've spoken with somebody on the citadel, who was like "Sorry mate, Adnerson died, but we can't find Shepard." Then again, if shepard was vaporized, they wouldn't have find his body anyway. NONE OF THIS MAKES SENSE.

Your looking too much into it. No one has spoken to them about Shepard. They only assume that Shep died because they lost contact with Shep.

The whole "not putting the plauge up" is nothing more than a feeling that "Shep is not dead" nothing more nothing less. No comms no anything.

It was a way for the LI not to give up hope in seeing Shep alive in the Destory high EMS ending. That is all, its a Romance story mechanic, its used quite often in stories. Where the Hero is though dead /is MIA that the Hero is still alive out there.

So dont think too much about it. And go out and read more stories....

[NRieh]

Anyone else alittle disappointed that they didn't even bother to put Shepards first name on it? Sure I'm Commander Shepard, but I have a first name.

I'm saying this since EC release. MGS2 HAD player name written on in-game item. It happened many years ago. It's also known (from MEHEM and its creator) that plaques have no single texture, but consist of letters. It does not take much of coding to understand that it COULD have been a variable.

Yes, I see issues for those who named his Shep "Superpuperspacemagicalbeing". But I doubt there are many of such. And they could AT LEAST use first letters, AND full rank. "Lt. Cmdr S. Shepard" - says much-much more, than just some random "Commander".

[Jassu1979]

Nightdragon8 wrote...
Your [sic] looking too much into it. No one has spoken to them about Shepard. They only assume that Shep died because they lost contact with Shep.

Which, of course, it totally plausible and in-character for the squad, given the precedent of Mass Effect 2 and sentiments explicitly expressed by many crewmates throughout the second and third game. [/irony]

"Yeah, we lost contact, so Shepard must be dead. Let's get this ceremony over with. It's not as if it'd be incredibly awkward if we just gave up on her like this, only to learn that she was still alive..."

[crimzontearz]

mechalynx wrote...

Slappy Ya Face wrote...

mechalynx wrote...

Shep's dead. The one putting up the plaque is either aware of the fact or refuses to give up hope.

This comment makes so little sense I'm just not going to bother saying anything more than: You're wrong.

I think it's safe to say that if the LI hesitates to put up Shep's name on the wall, then the body has not been found. In the blue ending ReaperShep probably announces the human's demise. 

I have no idea about the green ending, 'cause none of it ever made any sense to me.

I don't believe SHepard survived Destroy. I applaud people's optimism, but my Shep's dead as a door nail.

too bad the project lead confirmed he lives


 
But, whatever floats your boat

[Slappy Ya Face]

crimzontearz wrote...

mechalynx wrote...

Slappy Ya Face wrote...

mechalynx wrote...

Shep's dead. The one putting up the plaque is either aware of the fact or refuses to give up hope.

This comment makes so little sense I'm just not going to bother saying anything more than: You're wrong.

I think it's safe to say that if the LI hesitates to put up Shep's name on the wall, then the body has not been found. In the blue ending ReaperShep probably announces the human's demise. 

I have no idea about the green ending, 'cause none of it ever made any sense to me.

I don't believe SHepard survived Destroy. I applaud people's optimism, but my Shep's dead as a door nail.

too bad the project lead confirmed he lives


 
But, whatever floats your boat

People can draw their own conclusions. Especially when considering that there will never be a cannon ending. 

Modifié par Slappy Ya Face, 01 mars 2013 - 03:15 .

[crimzontearz]

Slappy Ya Face wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

mechalynx wrote...

Slappy Ya Face wrote...

mechalynx wrote...

Shep's dead. The one putting up the plaque is either aware of the fact or refuses to give up hope.

This comment makes so little sense I'm just not going to bother saying anything more than: You're wrong.

I think it's safe to say that if the LI hesitates to put up Shep's name on the wall, then the body has not been found. In the blue ending ReaperShep probably announces the human's demise. 

I have no idea about the green ending, 'cause none of it ever made any sense to me.

I don't believe SHepard survived Destroy. I applaud people's optimism, but my Shep's dead as a door nail.

too bad the project lead confirmed he lives


 
But, whatever floats your boat

People can draw their own conclusions. Especially when considering that there will never be a cannon ending. 

true, but word of god is word of god....before the "interpretation" crap started (thank you again Walters....) the Lead objectively spelled it out....he is alive