256 réponses à ce sujet

[Justinmiles19]

****Warning Lots O Text*****
Edit: Should throw in the fact Im not against balance just trying to get the general idea of why it needs it so bad and how we can get a solution that doesnt make her useless

After the Great krysae war, Volus offensive, Battle of the TC, we have come at last to the AUI war.

I get the general argument, free revives. I just dont get what the big deal is.

If you are an experienced player it acts as a safety net. Played her the other day it only revived me once. If you are new to the game it can be very helpful.

I player a PUG Platinum game last night and three guys were arguing about it in the lobby. Two of them said it was an unfair advantage. He said it was a crutch for bad players to put up good scores. I played Devils Advocate and argued against it.

My main points were that its a Coop game. That he should be glad there is a team member not a skilled as him now able to help. He didnt have to carry the guy and do it all himself. And the player he hated so much for using it had fun beacuse he was able to play without worrying about really bringing down his team. The player was also using the TGI with a Harrier X and I said "You didnt go down once in that match, and poped constant stimpacks"

He argued that was fair beacuse he could still be downed. I argued back that you can still be downed on the AUI Getting back up once is not a guarentee the enemy wont put you right back down. I was using an Adept and said "Well it doesnt seem fair you can get over 2000 extra sheilds and throw aggro to the team when I cant buff my sheilds" He replied "Its still fair" without any reasoning.

I play with experienced friends of mine who have had the game since day one and I play with friends who just got it. Some of the new characters have made it very fun for them to try higher difficulties without having top gear and weapons to help them. A friend of mine was so happy he got the Jugg and was the walking tank in a U/U/G game and we all had so much fun and he was able to be part of our team and not bring us down.

The AUI is a powerful, survivable, fun kit. She is not "Game Breaking" It seems to me the biggest issue here is "Experienced" Players are getting out scored by "Bad players" and blaming the kit. Blaming a kit in a Coop game where score is all added as a team effort in the end anyway. It is a team based game, with skills designed to work in combinations and compliment each other. I really just dont understand how this can bug people.

Well thats the end of my rant lol. And for the record I am not 100% anti nerf. The Krysae was one I thought needed it beacuse it was so powerful people were nuking players before team members could even see them and it was almost like a missile launcher in the hands of a GI. Nerfed it too hard IMO but what can ya do

Hope everyone is enjoying the new content as much as I am!

Cheers

Modifié par Justinmiles19, 28 février 2013 - 02:45 .

[Apl_Juice]

People who complain about nerfs keep going to the score argument, even though no one who wants the AIU nerfed mentions score at all.

Explain your reasoning to me.

EDIT: Auto-correct is stupid

Modifié par Apl_J, 28 février 2013 - 02:34 .

[Descy_]

it outscored me.

nerf pls.

[Crimson Vanguard]

I don't give a ****. I have survived all the greatest nerfs and I will outlive this one also.

[Justinmiles19]

Apl_J wrote...

People who complain about nerfs keep going to the score argument, even though no one who wants the AIU needed mentions score at all.

Explain your reasoning to me.

You must be master race beacuse every Nefrer ive met on the Xbox complains all day long about it. And if not the score then what is the reason?

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Any reasonable thread on BSN defending anything of relevance will be ignored by the nerf nao crowd, who thinks we're scrubs if we fight in any fashion other than naked and with nerf bats.

[Aethyl]

Justinmiles19 wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

People who complain about nerfs keep going to the score argument, even though no one who wants the AIU needed mentions score at all.

Explain your reasoning to me.

You must be master race beacuse every Nefrer ive met on the Xbox complains all day long about it. And if not the score then what is the reason?

Basically the fact that it makes most of the other classes obsolete, since it has a better survability AND damage output that most of the other characters I assume.

Might kill the variety of the game, just like when the GI was included, and was the only infiltrator we were seeing in the lobbies.

[HolyAvenger]

"Its a co-op game so no one should care about balance" is a terrible argument. The gameplay should offer variety and try and keep kits on a somewhat level keel in order to not make things stale, allow players to get bored and eventually quit. I know seeing Gold lobbies full of Krysae infiltrators got so tiresome I stopped playing regularly for a while. I am afraid the same thing will happen with EDIbot.

As for why she is OP? Great mobility, melee, speed, DR, instant shield-refill AND auto-rez on top of massive damage bonus to the best guns in the game and an excellent debuff power? How the heck can anyone think she isn't?

And no, I'm not bothered by the fact people using her were outscoring me. It was more disconcerting that I was outscoring certain players on my friendslist who are much better than I am. And I was surprised and ashamed to die during a Plat game when using her. She is literally unkillable. Infinite gels, infinite lives.

So yeah. That's my point of view. I'm going to be working hard on mastering the Talon Merc, Collectordept and Cabalguard myself, saving the Winbot for occasional cruisy lolz games.

[Justinmiles19]

Aethyl wrote...

Justinmiles19 wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

People who complain about nerfs keep going to the score argument, even though no one who wants the AIU needed mentions score at all.

Explain your reasoning to me.

You must be master race beacuse every Nefrer ive met on the Xbox complains all day long about it. And if not the score then what is the reason?

Basically the fact that it makes most of the other classes obsolete, since it has a better survability AND damage output that most of the other characters I assume.

Might kill the variety of the game, just like when the GI was included, and was the only infiltrator we were seeing in the lobbies.

Ehh I suppose thats true. Although the players who love their other kits will switch. Shes cool but my GI with the Javelin X and my Drell will always be the favs. If I really wanna get old school, the first Infi Cryo blast and  the Claymore makes for some fun  good point though

[USIncorp0]

The big issue is it convinces people that they can play Gold/Platinum, when they are not worthy of playing silver. The classes promote bad gameplay and cause the user to be unable to play a class without some form of shield restore. Also it causes many people to use the same kits over and over again, (AIU Kroguard, TGI). When they become inevitably bored of the class, they try to switch to a different class without such abilities, and fail miserably. They become frustrated, and stop playing the game, causing the game's player base to shrink.

TL;DR It's killing the game

[N1GHTHeR0]

The only time the AIU is OP is if someone knows how to use her correctly and has a basic understanding of game mechanics. I was playing with an AIU yesterday and he/she only scored 40k while I scored 200k. Then again she was using a reegar and locust.

[Werdnuh]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Any reasonable thread on BSN defending anything of relevance will be ignored by the nerf nao crowd, who thinks we're scrubs if we fight in any fashion other than naked and with nerf bats.

And yet, somehow, the majority of that same crowd swears by the claymore (and now) the Krogan Warlord. Two of the most powerful things in the game.

I mean, relative the the other classes, the AIU is ridiculously good, but it doesn't regenerate cobra missiles. You still have to kill stuff, and it is not THAT much faster than anything else. It's "OP" but it doesn't break the game. The krysae broke the game, this does not.

[Apl_Juice]

Justinmiles19 wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

People who complain about nerfs keep going to the score argument, even though no one who wants the AIU needed mentions score at all.

Explain your reasoning to me.

You must be master race beacuse every Nefrer ive met on the Xbox complains all day long about it. And if not the score then what is the reason?

I'm a console player, actually, and the reasoning comes down to balance and trade-offs. AIU has the most effective power set up in the game. She's as survivable as a Juggernaut/Krogan Vanguard, powerful as a GI, and her melee is better than the Warlord. She can be fast as a Drell, and regents shield during cloak.

All of those classes have certain trade-offs that keep them, for the most part, in line. the Juggernaut/KV can't deal good damage. The Drell/GI are made of paper. The warlord can get install killed during his long melee animation, and his weapon damage blows. But the AIU has all of it, with no downside. Its at the point where not picking her is just gimping yourself.

[NuclearTech76]

If a kit gets overplayed it will get nerfed regardless of what anyone thinks. They don't want strictly one or two kits being played exclusively. The TGI and GI likely would've been more drastically nerfed by now if it didn't effect other kits. The sexbot doesn't have that protection and will be adjusted.

That's not what I want but that is what will happen.

[ryoldschool]

A shame about all this nerf talk on the Edi. I am mainly interested in a great character to use up my shotgun rails ( I have the GI for javelin use ),. I am playing my Edi character with the Geth scanner gear ( instead of any grenade capacity gear ) and have it speced so I only only hold two uses of the matrix at a time. So if they nerf it so it does not do the revive, then I'll still be ok.

They can nerf the revive all they want, but I want the shotgun bonus to be there.

Sorry I did not read the OP, but I am sick of all this nerf talk.

[Aethyl]

Justinmiles19 wrote...

Aethyl wrote...

Justinmiles19 wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

People who complain about nerfs keep going to the score argument, even though no one who wants the AIU needed mentions score at all.

Explain your reasoning to me.

You must be master race beacuse every Nefrer ive met on the Xbox complains all day long about it. And if not the score then what is the reason?

Basically the fact that it makes most of the other classes obsolete, since it has a better survability AND damage output that most of the other characters I assume.

Might kill the variety of the game, just like when the GI was included, and was the only infiltrator we were seeing in the lobbies.

Ehh I suppose thats true. Although the players who love their other kits will switch. Shes cool but my GI with the Javelin X and my Drell will always be the favs. If I really wanna get old school, the first Infi Cryo blast and  the Claymore makes for some fun  good point though

Heh, I tried her once and immediatly went back to my Drellfiltrator after that, she is just not my kind.

Once my favorite infiltrator, always my favorite.

Modifié par Aethyl, 28 février 2013 - 02:43 .

[Justinmiles19]

Apl_J wrote...

Justinmiles19 wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

People who complain about nerfs keep going to the score argument, even though no one who wants the AIU needed mentions score at all.

Explain your reasoning to me.

You must be master race beacuse every Nefrer ive met on the Xbox complains all day long about it. And if not the score then what is the reason?

I'm a console player, actually, and the reasoning comes down to balance and trade-offs. AIU has the most effective power set up in the game. She's as survivable as a Juggernaut/Krogan Vanguard, powerful as a GI, and her melee is better than the Warlord. She can be fast as a Drell, and regents shield during cloak.

All of those classes have certain trade-offs that keep them, for the most part, in line. the Juggernaut/KV can't deal good damage. The Drell/GI are made of paper. The warlord can get install killed during his long melee animation, and his weapon damage blows. But the AIU has all of it, with no downside. Its at the point where not picking her is just gimping yourself.

How do you think it could be fixed then? My OP is really getting to finding a solution as I said above my GI and Drell are favs so I dont really use her much anyway. But balance needs to be found  your right. Just down want them to nerf her down to microchips, and have a kit not even worth using.

Maybe limit the Rez, per game/wave?

[USIncorp0]

ryoldschool wrote...

A shame about all this nerf talk on the Edi. I am mainly interested in a great character to use up my shotgun rails ( I have the GI for javelin use ),. I am playing my Edi character with the Geth scanner gear ( instead of any grenade capacity gear ) and have it speced so I only only hold two uses of the matrix at a time. So if they nerf it so it does not do the revive, then I'll still be ok.

They can nerf the revive all they want, but I want the shotgun bonus to be there.

Sorry I did not read the OP, but I am sick of all this nerf talk.

Shotgun bonuses are fine, and they work. Shotgun Infiltrators promote needed game variety which is integral to maintaining a player base.
However, a kit which literally makes others obsolete is a PROBLEM. E.G. Why would you ever use the base human infiltrator over the AIU? And i'm asking seriously.

[Babydel]

USIncorp0 wrote...

The big issue is it convinces people that they can play Gold/Platinum, when they are not worthy of playing silver. The classes promote bad gameplay and cause the user to be unable to play a class without some form of shield restore. Also it causes many people to use the same kits over and over again, (AIU Kroguard, TGI). When they become inevitably bored of the class, they try to switch to a different class without such abilities, and fail miserably. They become frustrated, and stop playing the game, causing the game's player base to shrink.

TL;DR It's killing the game

This, been trying to put that into words for the last five minutes, thanks for making that process easier. =P

[etm125]

I appreciate the OP for having a reasonable opinion and not another "You mad bro cuz you got owned on da scoreboard!" Or "elitist snob! Dont take away my shiny toy!"

The argument is not about scoreboard. It never has been. Revives do nothing for points (which are dumb anyway).

Game Balance: Generally speaking, kits should be balanced as much as possible. There should not be a clearly superior kit/weapon/loadout. It keeps the game fun and interesting. It's what has kept us all interested in builds and strategies for over a year. In a horde-mode style MP, kits should either have 1) great survivability or 2) great damage output. Not both. For example, the GI has great damage output but has low shields. The kroguard has excellent survivability but (besides reegar+incen) doesnt have great damage output.

Which brings us to the AIU. She has fantastic damage output and, with grenade cap gear and even half-assed runs to ammo boxes, has infinite lives. If you pump out damage, your teammate can be survivable. Yay, team! If you can survive and distract an enemy, teammate infiltrator can smoke him. Yay, team! If either of you go down you have a teammate who can revive you. Yay, team!

The AIU has excellent damage output. She needs no GI teammate. She has absurd survivability. She needs no kroguard. She can revive herself. She has no need of any team at all. Your entire mass effect 3 multiplayer squad has just......become obsolete.

[TheKillerAngel]

Aethyl wrote...

Justinmiles19 wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

People who complain about nerfs keep going to the score argument, even though no one who wants the AIU needed mentions score at all.

Explain your reasoning to me.

You must be master race beacuse every Nefrer ive met on the Xbox complains all day long about it. And if not the score then what is the reason?

Basically the fact that it makes most of the other classes obsolete, since it has a better survability AND damage output that most of the other characters I assume.

Might kill the variety of the game, just like when the GI was included, and was the only infiltrator we were seeing in the lobbies.

I'll disagree that she makes the other kits obsolete. Part of the game is also having fun with it; playing the same kit 9999x even if its really powerful will inevitably get boring. If we want to talk about raw strength, the GI/SI are of course better snipers and are capable of outputting similar or higher damage, the TGI has equal survivability while being capable of dealing damage at longer ranges, the MQI deals excellent area of effect damage on demand, the human/quarian infiltrators can set up some nasty spike damage with sticky grenades, etc. etc. 

People want to try out new stuff, so it's hardly surprising to see lots of the Reckoning kits being played, simply due to the fact that they're new.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 28 février 2013 - 02:50 .

[cronshaw]

I couldn't care less what happens to her
But the people calling for nerfs are exaggerating her efficacy

[Justinmiles19]

Heri wrote...

There's probably no point explaining our position to people like you, OP, because you're one of many who hold the mindset that anything goes in a co-op game. I mean if that were the case, would you be averse to putting a class in the game that can just one-shot everything? After all, it's a co-op game - who cares if your teammate scores 300k and everyone else zero as long as you collect the credits, right?

I play with experienced friends of mine who have had the game since day one and I play with friends who just got it. Some of the new characters have made it very fun for them to try higher difficulties without having top gear and weapons to help them.

You don't need top gear and weapons (my URs aren't anywhere near maxed and I pug platinum pretty much exclusively). What you need is skill. If you're a bad player who can't hit the broad side of a barn with a sniper rifle, having a Black Widow X isn't going to magically carry you through games.

But this is the problem with games having multiple difficulties these days. All of the lesser-skilled players want the rewards of getting to play higher difficulties (i.e. the credits of platinum) without actually having to be good enough to do it.Guess what? If you suck at this game, you don't deserve to be in gold/plat. Stick to bronze or silver where you belong, and actually try and improve your game so that you can move up.

I'm just sick of the entitlement attitudes that say everything needs to be given to me, and given to me NAO. It's the reason games like ME3 are getting stupidly easy in single-player even on Insanity, because game makers keep having to reduce the difficulty to satisfy the gimme gimmes so that they can feel like heroes because they beat the game on the hardest difficulty.

Learn to work for what you want instead of demanding it be handed to you on a silver platter.

Didnt ever say anything goes. Been playing since day one and put in over 900 hours to earn every single gun I have. But if a player enters my game and uses a survivable kit and does well has fun it makes for a better experience. I would rather an unskilled player use a good kit and doesnt complain or get blow away every wave, and have fun.

I am NOT against balancing the kit , just dont want it nerfed into the floor. What would you propose as a solution?

[Kalas Magnus]

If you cant see how she is game breaking I dont know what to say.

She makes the tgi look like the hunter.

modok8 wrote...

I couldn't care less what happens to her
But the people calling for nerfs are exaggerating her efficacy

Nope

Modifié par Kalas321, 28 février 2013 - 02:52 .