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AUI: Pro Nerfers Explain your reasoning to me.


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#51
Kalas Magnus

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Feneckus wrote...

First of all, people don't complain because they got outscored.

They complain because they feel a particular kit is way too good compared to the rest. The sexbot is as fast as a Drell, has a shotgun tactical cloak, great mobility, a debuff/crowd control power, damage reduction, shield regen, auto-revive and an insane melee. She's basically a mix of the GI, TGI, Kroguard and Drellguard, but she only has the strengths of those characters and none of their weaknesses.

Why should one character be so flawless while plenty of other kits are only good under certain circumstances and have obvious weaknesses ? There's basically no reason to play those kits unless you want to be a hipster.

Having said that, I don't really want a nerf. For now, I see as many sexbots as Talon Mercs. I still see more TGIs for some reason. The Krysae deserved to be nerfed because it was almost impossible to get in a Krysae-free lobby. It looks like it's not an issue with the sexbot. Not yet anyway.

Wait, feneckus doesnt want to nerf an infiltrator?

What is this?

Has he been using claymore aiu?

#52
Fortack

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Feneckus wrote...

The sexbot is as fast as a Drell, has a shotgun tactical cloak, great mobility, a debuff/crowd control power, damage reduction, shield regen, auto-revive and an insane melee. She's basically a mix of the GI, TGI, Kroguard and Drellguard, but she only has the strengths of those characters and none of their weaknesses.


This. The lolbot is the Jack of all trades and Master Mistress of them all. Every properly designed kit has its strengths and weaknesses, the lolbot does not have weakness, nothing.

The most hilarious thing is that you are rewarded with taking 75% less damage for getting yourself killed :blink: WTF?!

#53
dumdum2

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OuterRim wrote...

dumdum2 wrote...
I am also on Xbox and I don't care about score, though I will say congratulations to anyone who manage to outscore me with any class on Gold or Platinum if I am playing somewhat serious. I have played with enough players that are using this class now and they haven't been able to score more points than me, so that is not what this discussion is about.

I myself love Repair Matrix for the mobility and shield restoration, but I hate the self revive. It totally breaks the game because I can just walk around on Platinum with total disregard to all what strategy and game mechanics means and just don't give a f*ck about anything. In my second match that I played with the class I found it completely and utterly boring because it took away the challenging part of actually playing the game.

That's why a nerf is called for, and the only nerf would be to take away the self revive, everything else is perfectly fine to me.


I have an easy solution for you. Don't play the bot. Next.


But I love the class and all the way that they build her powers, I love everything except the auto-revive. So I want to be able to play it with the powers that it has while still finding the game somewhat challenging.

#54
Felhand

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I dont say nerf anything, im a buffer damnit. But iv used the sexbot once so far, I speced her for melee/shotgun/survival matrix took my Wraith with choke/HVB and just proceeded to DESTROY cerberus. Decapitating centurions from halfway across the map, 1shot upercutting phantoms (hilarious kill animation btw) and menacing atlas with extreme prejudice and a dash of cover humping.

To that end, shes fine - buff everything else.

#55
Justinmiles19

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HolyAvenger wrote...

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...
As for why she is OP? Great mobility, melee, speed, DR, instant shield-refill AND auto-rez on top of massive damage bonus to the best guns in the game and an excellent debuff power? How the heck can anyone think she isn't?


Gonna stop you there, little shaver. She's out-performed by the other Infiltrators. She's out-damaged by the Geth/Turian/Drell/Shadow infiltrator, can't spawn-nuke, and is out-survived by the Salarian, Shadow, and Ghost.

Wrong, so much wrong it hurts. Out damaged by a GI maybe. But an EDIbot with a Reegar, Raider, Wraith or Claymore is easily on par or better than a TGI or Infidrell or Shadow. Her survivability is better than the three you mentioned because she can refill her shields they can AND doesn't give a f*ck if she dies anyway. Plus she combines all the attributes in one package whereas the other kits can only lay claim to 1 or 2 at best.


Avenger just beacuse she can do that will you stop playing the other kits? Just beacuse a kit is powerful does it mean you wont use any other? I use my others all the time even the base characters beacuse I have fun with them Image IPB

While i agree there will be cretain players who use only her from now on that was the case with the GI and TGI. I see ALOT of them in gold games still. Plat games are almost guarenteed to have a TGI/Harrier combo.

#56
JaimasOfRaxis

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HolyAvenger wrote...

Wrong, so much wrong it hurts. Out damaged by a GI maybe. But an EDIbot with a Reegar, Raider, Wraith or Claymore is easily on par or better than a TGI or Infidrell or Shadow. Her survivability is better than the three you mentioned because she can refill her shields they can AND doesn't give a f*ck if she dies anyway. Plus she combines all the attributes in one package whereas the other kits can only lay claim to 1 or 2 at best.


Incorrect, buggo. Shadow with Omni-Blade, full sword specialization, joints, strength, and so on can one-shot Phantoms on Gold with shield damage specialization. Infidrell's recon mine+homing grenade+huge weapon damage bonus grossly outclasses anything EDI-clone can do. Gethfiltrator laughs at this class's damage output and takes its lunch money. TGI with any top-tier rifle can take down a Brute or Scion easily from standoff ranges.

And no, her survivability is not better. Stim Pack laughs at you for even entertaining the notion. Even Energy Drain and Shadow Strike do a better job of keeping a competent infiltrator alive. The more you guys espouse that she's an I-win button, the more you all prove you have no idea what in the hell you're talking about in regards to class balance.

Modifié par JaimasOfRaxis, 28 février 2013 - 03:13 .


#57
Guest_Aotearas_*

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***Disclaimer: Since Origin prevents me from playing the following post is made without ingame experiences***


So, and just because people tend to ignore important facts on the internet, once more I tell you that because technical problems prevent me from playing since a while, neither have I played the AUI, not played with others using the AUI, so everything I say is either hypothetical, or basic arguments that specifically adress the power itself but its relations to other game elements.




I will skip TC and SF, because frankly, every Infiltrator kit is grossly more powerful than any other kit in existence when it comes to pure damage output and complaining about how a shotgun AUI is is extremely powerful is about as fruitful as complaining about a GI with the Javelin. Damage boost is ridiculous and we have to live with it.

So all I am going to talk about is the Repairmatrix.

First off, a question: Does the duration mean that one will only get up if downed within power duration, or does it mean you get all those basic boni the power grants for that duration and the actual automatic revive is not limited by it?

I will say that if the power only revives within its duration after pre-emptively activating (for example right before going into the thick of it) is considerably less overpowered than if you could just activate the power, play for ten minutes and then randomly die and get up, only to use it right again for the distant eventuality of getting downed.


Now, as you've noticed I said less overpowered. And I mean it exactly in the sense that even if you only had a twenty seconds window if automatic-revive, the fact this power more than effectively subsitutes medigel, but also grants a whole heap of boni that medigel doesn't makes it a rather cheap get-out-of-jail card.
Combined witht he fact you can have potentially unlimited grenade refills AND Thermal packs will refill grenades too so if you really need the power you can simply use one of those and have another two/three or eight more automatic revives, Repair Matriox very effectively makes for infinite medigel substitue with added boni to boot.

That is, very objectively, unique among all ME3 powers in its utility that was and for every other class still is monopolozed by medigel, which in turn again very objectively, gives this kit an exclusively far superiour survivability. That is on every account and way to look at it, grossly unbalanced in relation to every other kits dependancy on medigel.


Also keep in mind I am talking about the limited duration revive. If the power in fact lasts effectively infinitely and will revive the player automatically any give amount of time between activation and getting downed, then that factors only more into the power's general favourable settings as it doesn't even require any anticipation of when things might get hairy and every newbie/n00b could simply activate the power and not bother about enemy fire for as long as until he dies bar sync-kills (I am assuming Repair Matric does not revive from sync.kills, haven't checked other threads if true or not).




My final verdict is thus that regardless of how it serves as a power for that specific kit, it is presenting the AUI with a survivability that not a single other kit, regardless of playerskill, can duplicate. Sure a good player will not likely have to exploit that medigel subtitute much which would close the gap as the real benefit would by rather hypothetical if he isn't dying, but a good player is not the average of the playerbase.

#58
Seifer006

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Fortack wrote...
The most hilarious thing is that you are rewarded with taking 75% less damage for getting yourself killed :blink: WTF?!


wait what?

I haven't used AIU yet...

#59
JaimasOfRaxis

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dumdum2 wrote...

But I love the class and all the way that they build her powers, I love everything except the auto-revive. So I want to be able to play it with the powers that it has while still finding the game somewhat challenging.


Spec out of Matrix.

Your problem is now solved.

#60
HolyAvenger

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Justinmiles19 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...
As for why she is OP? Great mobility, melee, speed, DR, instant shield-refill AND auto-rez on top of massive damage bonus to the best guns in the game and an excellent debuff power? How the heck can anyone think she isn't?


Gonna stop you there, little shaver. She's out-performed by the other Infiltrators. She's out-damaged by the Geth/Turian/Drell/Shadow infiltrator, can't spawn-nuke, and is out-survived by the Salarian, Shadow, and Ghost.

Wrong, so much wrong it hurts. Out damaged by a GI maybe. But an EDIbot with a Reegar, Raider, Wraith or Claymore is easily on par or better than a TGI or Infidrell or Shadow. Her survivability is better than the three you mentioned because she can refill her shields they can AND doesn't give a f*ck if she dies anyway. Plus she combines all the attributes in one package whereas the other kits can only lay claim to 1 or 2 at best.


Avenger just beacuse she can do that will you stop playing the other kits? Just beacuse a kit is powerful does it mean you wont use any other? I use my others all the time even the base characters beacuse I have fun with them Image IPB

While i agree there will be cretain players who use only her from now on that was the case with the GI and TGI. I see ALOT of them in gold games still. Plat games are almost guarenteed to have a TGI/Harrier combo.


No but I do foresee myself getting bored with her quite quickly unless I spec out of RM, or use a Katana or Disciple on Plat.

#61
Xyrm

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Play this class with a 6/6/6/6/0 spec, rank 3+ equipment (incendiary or warp ammo), a shock trooper gear, and a reegar with HVB + spare ammo. I have regularly been getting over 200k scores on gold, one time I even got 270k.  This wasn't with pugs, this was with skilled other players that I normally play platinum with (we were messing around with new builds).  You don't even need medigel on any difficulty (so long as you aren't dumb and standing out in the open to get shot by everything).

Nerfing the auto-res isn't enough. Snap Freeze is so amazing at weakening armor that any shotgun that isn't a crusader or venom will hit stupidly hard with the HVB. I haven't seen any kit able to take down bosses as fast as this one, and snap freeze makes mooks a joke.

I love shotguns, and I love infiltrators, but this is just too much.  Even looking at the brand new kits, you can't say the AIU is balanced with the cabal.  They are night and day.

Modifié par Xyrm, 28 février 2013 - 03:23 .


#62
Simba501

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USIncorp0 wrote...

The big issue is it convinces people that they can play Gold/Platinum, when they are not worthy of playing silver. The classes promote bad gameplay and cause the user to be unable to play a class without some form of shield restore. Also it causes many people to use the same kits over and over again, (AIU Kroguard, TGI). When they become inevitably bored of the class, they try to switch to a different class without such abilities, and fail miserably. They become frustrated, and stop playing the game, causing the game's player base to shrink.

TL;DR It's killing the game


I find it hard to believe that someone incapable of playing silver can suddenly play gold or plat.  As some have stated, it's not making anyone better. 


silentstep79 wrote...
i agree that they'll make some nerfs to the AIU, but there's no way they didn't know how powerful repair matrix was going to be when they put it in her kit. just like they were aware of how powerful the juggernaut was going to be in game as well. it's my belief that they wanted to give inexperienced players the means to access higher difficulties without being a burden on the team just as you posted OP. the better players will gravitate away from using her just as they did with the GI, TGI, etc. i also think they wanted to give lesser skilled players a means to get credits from gold/plat WITHOUT CHEATING. so if i see an AIU or Juggernaut in my plat pug, i'm not immediately reaching for the kick button.


I usually outscore everyone anyway.  It's a shame that if I'm using this character, people will call my skill into question. 

#63
dumdum2

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JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

dumdum2 wrote...

But I love the class and all the way that they build her powers, I love everything except the auto-revive. So I want to be able to play it with the powers that it has while still finding the game somewhat challenging.


Spec out of Matrix.

Your problem is now solved.


You my friend are not listening :bandit:

I have no need for any points in Fitness, I am one of those guys that like to do Platinum without Fitness on my characters and still live to tell the tale. Though I want the speed bonus from the Matrix and the shield restoration is not as much "cheating" for me as a TGI Stim Pack or a Volus Shield Boost (never really play those classes because of it). So I want to have the benefits of the Matrix but there is one thing that I don't want from it that totally ruins the feeling of playing it, and the sad part is that I can't pick another evolution or something to avoid getting the auto-revive.

If they would have given this class the option to pick auto-revive as an evolution in the powers, then I would have been more acceptive of it. As it looks now, this class will sit on the shelf picking up dust next to my TGI, Volus classes and Kroguard.

#64
HolyAvenger

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JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Wrong, so much wrong it hurts. Out damaged by a GI maybe. But an EDIbot with a Reegar, Raider, Wraith or Claymore is easily on par or better than a TGI or Infidrell or Shadow. Her survivability is better than the three you mentioned because she can refill her shields they can AND doesn't give a f*ck if she dies anyway. Plus she combines all the attributes in one package whereas the other kits can only lay claim to 1 or 2 at best.


Incorrect, buggo. Shadow with Omni-Blade, full sword specialization, joints, strength, and so on can one-shot Phantoms on Gold with shield damage specialization. Infidrell's recon mine+homing grenade+huge weapon damage bonus grossly outclasses anything EDI-clone can do. Gethfiltrator laughs at this class's damage output and takes its lunch money. TGI with any top-tier rifle can take down a Brute or Scion easily from standoff ranges.

And no, her survivability is not better. Stim Pack laughs at you for even entertaining the notion. Even Energy Drain and Shadow Strike do a better job of keeping a competent infiltrator alive. The more you guys espouse that she's an I-win button, the more you all prove you have no idea what in the hell you're talking about in regards to class balance.

You have absolutely no clue about the game. SS is a slow, slow killer. While the Shadow is SS'ing one Phantom the EDIbot has killed 3 with her Reegar. A Piranha GI is probably faster at killing stuff than her. The TGI isn't (no boss debuff like SF), and the Infidrell needs to pop back into cover too much. Range doesn't matter with her speed, DR and insta-rez, she doesn't care about taking fire at all.

Stimpacks might give you back a bit more shields, but they don't provide DR or mobility increases, nor will they help if you die anyway (catch a Ravager blast and a banshee warp a split second later? EDI doesn't care...).

You are playing a completely different game to the rest of us if you think she is balanced, even in comparison to other infiltrators. I always thought you were clueless, this confirms it. Image IPB

#65
Aetika

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I agree with you wholeheartedly, OP. Unless we get lobby after lobby after lobby full of Edi bots, which would be killing variety for everyone else, I don´t care.

#66
Aiiro

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While I acknowledge that she is a little bit too good (she does actually have one drawback I can think of and it's situational), I feel like people are taking this far too seriously. Also, I highly doubt the power will be changed much. Remember how everyone whined about stim packs? Yeah, they really still do the same thing.

And if the power was to really be overhauled, it would require a patch. just saying.

#67
Simba501

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Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...


Duration is 15-22 seconds. Auto revive only occurs while active.

#68
Xyrm

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Aiiro wrote...

While I acknowledge that she is a little bit too good (she does actually have one drawback I can think of and it's situational), I feel like people are taking this far too seriously. Also, I highly doubt the power will be changed much. Remember how everyone whined about stim packs? Yeah, they really still do the same thing.

And if the power was to really be overhauled, it would require a patch. just saying.


We are due for a patch next week as part of the single player DLC.

#69
Fortack

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Seifer006 wrote...

Fortack wrote...
The most hilarious thing is that you are rewarded with taking 75% less damage for getting yourself killed :blink: WTF?!


wait what?

I haven't used AIU yet...


Final evolution of the lolmatrix. If you go down and get back up for free you take 75% less damage. Activate lolmatrix again and you are completely immune to all damage for a while (except sync kills).

#70
Xyrm

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Fortack wrote...
Final evolution of the lolmatrix. If you go down and get back up for free you take 75% less damage. Activate lolmatrix again and you are completely immune to all damage for a while (except sync kills).


Incorrect.  The game has a hard cap on DR of 90%.  You are *ALMOST* completely immune to damage.

#71
VaultingFrog

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Wow you people are petty...

#72
Fortack

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Simba501 wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...


Duration is 15-22 seconds. Auto revive only occurs while active.


Which means you can have it activate for more than 11 minutes each game, without ever touching an ammo crate ...

#73
Seifer006

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Fortack wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

Fortack wrote...
The most hilarious thing is that you are rewarded with taking 75% less damage for getting yourself killed :blink: WTF?!


wait what?

I haven't used AIU yet...


Final evolution of the lolmatrix. If you go down and get back up for free you take 75% less damage. Activate lolmatrix again and you are completely immune to all damage for a while (except sync kills).


Sounds like she's Platinum Solo Worthy?

#74
Zero132132

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Xyrm wrote...

Aiiro wrote...

While I acknowledge that she is a little bit too good (she does actually have one drawback I can think of and it's situational), I feel like people are taking this far too seriously. Also, I highly doubt the power will be changed much. Remember how everyone whined about stim packs? Yeah, they really still do the same thing.

And if the power was to really be overhauled, it would require a patch. just saying.


We are due for a patch next week as part of the single player DLC.

If the patch is that soon, then it was developed like a month ago.

#75
Dark Tlaloc

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Fortack wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

The sexbot is as fast as a Drell, has a shotgun tactical cloak, great mobility, a debuff/crowd control power, damage reduction, shield regen, auto-revive and an insane melee. She's basically a mix of the GI, TGI, Kroguard and Drellguard, but she only has the strengths of those characters and none of their weaknesses.


This. The lolbot is the Jack of all trades and Master Mistress of them all. Every properly designed kit has its strengths and weaknesses, the lolbot does not have weakness, nothing.

The most hilarious thing is that you are rewarded with taking 75% less damage for getting yourself killed :blink: WTF?!


This is also my issue. I honestly don’t wouldn’t choose her
over my Drell, because I love Recon, and prefer the playstyle of the Assassin
to that of the Edi clone, but my problem with her is that she doesn’t seem to
have been made with balance in mind, while the majority of classes were.

 

The GI is squishy as all hell, the TGI is durable as hell
but doesn’t have quite the high-end capability of the GI (especially if you don’t
use a Harrier or PPR), the Kroguard is slow and not a weapons platform
(although he’s great close range, especially with the Reegar), the Vorcha have
terrible shields, the Volus might as well have 1 Shield and 1 Health, the Drell
have terrible health, etc. What does the fembot have as a drawback? Really nothing.
She’s an infiltrator (already really survivable and great offensively) who
excels with shotguns (one of the more powerful weapon types), has an extremely
powerful debuff skill (the awesome snap freeze), and is functionally almost
immortal (repair matrix). She has Stim packs that are better than stim packs,
and aren’t hindered by stagger (the TGI still goes down due to lag and/or
stunlock, for example), and is also one of the fastest kits in the game.

 

The question isn’t why we should nerf her, the question is
why does she exist? I have no issue with people using her, I have an issue with
the idea that she’s the one character that doesn’t seem to be held to the same
standards of balance as the rest of the kits in the game. Great players will
always be able to squeeze every ounce of efficiency out of a good kit, which is
why good players excel with characters like the Drell Assassin, GI, and Fury,
for example (while all are very squishy). But the fembot takes the risk-reward
out of the players hands; you simply make sure you’re stocked with “grenades”
and then wade into the battle.

 

If this is the way she’s going to be, then most other kits
could use a buff, which won’t happen. So it’s essentially not particularly fair
to players of other kits, more than it’s “cheap” to use her.