256 réponses à ce sujet

[Kalas Magnus]

soulstriker09 wrote...

I will wait until all the lobbies fill up with her :
Then I'll definitely be on the nerfing side :T

If not, then it's OK. I won't be using her much like the TGI anyway.

i've already been in lobbies where 3/4 players are using her.

its not because she is new. havent seen any talons and few cabals

Modifié par Kalas321, 28 février 2013 - 04:26 .

[cuzIMgood]

Overpowered compared to other classes.
Kills variety in the game.
Makes the game feel much too easy.

[Immortal Strife]

She will not instant revive on DOT damage. Thought I'd answer a few of the posts.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 28 février 2013 - 04:28 .

[vonSlash]

Justinmiles19 wrote...

****Warning Lots O Text*****
Edit: Should throw in the fact Im not against balance just trying to get the general idea of why it needs it so bad and how we can get a solution that doesnt make her useless

After the Great krysae war, Volus offensive, Battle of the TC, we have come at last to the AUI war.

I get the general argument, free revives. I just dont get what the big deal is.

If you are an experienced player it acts as a safety net. Played her the other day it only revived me once. If you are new to the game it can be very helpful.

I player a PUG Platinum game last night and three guys were arguing about it in the lobby. Two of them said it was an unfair advantage. He said it was a crutch for bad players to put up good scores. I played Devils Advocate and argued against it.

My main points were that its a Coop game. That he should be glad there is a team member not a skilled as him now able to help. He didnt have to carry the guy and do it all himself. And the player he hated so much for using it had fun beacuse he was able to play without worrying about really bringing down his team. The player was also using the TGI with a Harrier X and I said "You didnt go down once in that match, and poped constant stimpacks"

He argued that was fair beacuse he could still be downed. I argued back that you can still be downed on the AUI Getting back up once is not a guarentee the enemy wont put you right back down. I was using an Adept and said "Well it doesnt seem fair you can get over 2000 extra sheilds and throw aggro to the team when I cant buff my sheilds" He replied "Its still fair" without any reasoning.

I play with experienced friends of mine who have had the game since day one and I play with friends who just got it. Some of the new characters have made it very fun for them to try higher difficulties without having top gear and weapons to help them. A friend of mine was so happy he got the Jugg and was the walking tank in a U/U/G game and we all had so much fun and he was able to be part of our team and not bring us down.

The AUI is a powerful, survivable, fun kit. She is not "Game Breaking" It seems to me the biggest issue here is "Experienced" Players are getting out scored by "Bad players" and blaming the kit. Blaming a kit in a Coop game where score is all added as a team effort in the end anyway. It is a team based game, with skills designed to work in combinations and compliment each other. I really just dont understand how this can bug people.

Well thats the end of my rant lol. And for the record I am not 100% anti nerf. The Krysae was one I thought needed it beacuse it was so powerful people were nuking players before team members could even see them and it was almost like a missile launcher in the hands of a GI. Nerfed it too hard IMO but what can ya do

Hope everyone is enjoying the new content as much as I am!

Cheers

I'm a bit upset at you, OP. You had me convinced that you were about to come up with a well-reasoned argument against nerfing the AIU right up until the part where you decided to play the "nerfers are just jealous" card.

SInce you failed to provide any credible reasons not to nerf it, I'll leave you with one reason why it wouldn't hurt to nerf the class. The AIU has superior offense and superior defense, whereas most other classes (and virtually all classes we consider balanced) excel in only one of those fields, if any. The AIU's Tactical Cloak provides an additional damge boost to shotguns compared to other infiltrators, a substantial enough boost for a Shotgun Infiltrator AIU with Geth Scanner to perform at roughly the same level as a GI with Hunter Mode and a Shotgun Amp (if you factor in Snap Freeze and Proxy Mine debuffs, the GI might get higher DPS against boss targets, but not dramatically). At this point, you might be wondering what the big deal is - after all, the GI isn't considered to be radically OP'd. That, however, is due to the fact that the GI is extremely squishy, and therefore requires good strategizing and fast reflexes to play successfully, which can disincentivize its use for some players. The AIU, with her Repair Matrix (and improved dodges, and higher shields) doesn't suffer from this problem, as she can gain damage resistance, movement speed boosts, and shield regeneration (and with that, occasional extra shield gates) - and she can gain all of this while cloaked. Even if you do make mistakes as an AIU and waltz yourself into an unwinnable fight, Repair Matrix gives you a free pass and lets you try again, no strings attached. As someone else on these forums pointed out yesterday, Repair Matrix essentially gives you (depending on build, loadout, and thermal clip use) somewhere between 2-45 extra medi-gel per match, and that's without visiting an ammo box- ever. Since almost everyone makes a habit of frequently restocking their grenades at the ammo box, it's safe to conclude that an AIU player with good reflexes goes into every game with an near-infinite supply of medi-gel and Ops packs.

So, the problem is that the GI (which is one of the most efficient and effective 'balanced' classes) and the AIU have similar performance as shotgun infiltrators, but the AIU doesn't have to put up with any of the GI's drawbacks.

Or if that's still not clear enough for you:

GI   = high-risk, high-reward = balanced
AIU = no-risk, high-reward = broken

[Immortal Strife]

cuzIMgood wrote...

Overpowered compared to other classes.
Kills variety in the game.
Makes the game feel much too easy.

Many classes are powerful.
There are 65 characters.
The game is only challenging with a few kits.

[COLZ7R]

Been playing since day 1 and the great argument of a op class spoiling divercity is a joke. Never in over 1700 games have i been in a lobby with everyone using the same class. The only time you see that is speedrunners on youtube. The argument always comes down to the i dont like other people doing as good as me line, dress it up how you like but that is the entire argument. How other people choose to play the game has never effected my enjoyment. Are they control freaks, who only get enjoyment by telling others what to do?

[xtorma]

vonSlash wrote...

Justinmiles19 wrote...

****Warning Lots O Text*****
Edit: Should throw in the fact Im not against balance just trying to get the general idea of why it needs it so bad and how we can get a solution that doesnt make her useless

After the Great krysae war, Volus offensive, Battle of the TC, we have come at last to the AUI war.

I get the general argument, free revives. I just dont get what the big deal is.

If you are an experienced player it acts as a safety net. Played her the other day it only revived me once. If you are new to the game it can be very helpful.

I player a PUG Platinum game last night and three guys were arguing about it in the lobby. Two of them said it was an unfair advantage. He said it was a crutch for bad players to put up good scores. I played Devils Advocate and argued against it.

My main points were that its a Coop game. That he should be glad there is a team member not a skilled as him now able to help. He didnt have to carry the guy and do it all himself. And the player he hated so much for using it had fun beacuse he was able to play without worrying about really bringing down his team. The player was also using the TGI with a Harrier X and I said "You didnt go down once in that match, and poped constant stimpacks"

He argued that was fair beacuse he could still be downed. I argued back that you can still be downed on the AUI Getting back up once is not a guarentee the enemy wont put you right back down. I was using an Adept and said "Well it doesnt seem fair you can get over 2000 extra sheilds and throw aggro to the team when I cant buff my sheilds" He replied "Its still fair" without any reasoning.

I play with experienced friends of mine who have had the game since day one and I play with friends who just got it. Some of the new characters have made it very fun for them to try higher difficulties without having top gear and weapons to help them. A friend of mine was so happy he got the Jugg and was the walking tank in a U/U/G game and we all had so much fun and he was able to be part of our team and not bring us down.

The AUI is a powerful, survivable, fun kit. She is not "Game Breaking" It seems to me the biggest issue here is "Experienced" Players are getting out scored by "Bad players" and blaming the kit. Blaming a kit in a Coop game where score is all added as a team effort in the end anyway. It is a team based game, with skills designed to work in combinations and compliment each other. I really just dont understand how this can bug people.

Well thats the end of my rant lol. And for the record I am not 100% anti nerf. The Krysae was one I thought needed it beacuse it was so powerful people were nuking players before team members could even see them and it was almost like a missile launcher in the hands of a GI. Nerfed it too hard IMO but what can ya do

Hope everyone is enjoying the new content as much as I am!

Cheers

I'm a bit upset at you, OP. You had me convinced that you were about to come up with a well-reasoned argument against nerfing the AIU right up until the part where you decided to play the "nerfers are just jealous" card.

SInce you failed to provide any credible reasons not to nerf it, I'll leave you with one reason why it wouldn't hurt to nerf the class. The AIU has superior offense and superior defense, whereas most other classes (and virtually all classes we consider balanced) excel in only one of those fields, if any. The AIU's Tactical Cloak provides an additional damge boost to shotguns compared to other infiltrators, a substantial enough boost for a Shotgun Infiltrator AIU with Geth Scanner to perform at roughly the same level as a GI with Hunter Mode and a Shotgun Amp (if you factor in Snap Freeze and Proxy Mine debuffs, the GI might get higher DPS against boss targets, but not dramatically). At this point, you might be wondering what the big deal is - after all, the GI isn't considered to be radically OP'd. That, however, is due to the fact that the GI is extremely squishy, and therefore requires good strategizing and fast reflexes to play successfully, which can disincentivize its use for some players. The AIU, with her Repair Matrix (and improved dodges, and higher shields) doesn't suffer from this problem, as she can gain damage resistance, movement speed boosts, and shield regeneration (and with that, occasional extra shield gates) - and she can gain all of this while cloaked. Even if you do make mistakes as an AIU and waltz yourself into an unwinnable fight, Repair Matrix gives you a free pass and lets you try again, no strings attached. As someone else on these forums pointed out yesterday, Repair Matrix essentially gives you (depending on build, loadout, and thermal clip use) somewhere between 2-45 extra medi-gel per match, and that's without visiting an ammo box- ever. Since almost everyone makes a habit of frequently restocking their grenades at the ammo box, it's safe to conclude that an AIU player with good reflexes goes into every game with an near-infinite supply of medi-gel and Ops packs.

So, the problem is that the GI (which is one of the most efficient and effective 'balanced' classes) and the AIU have similar performance as shotgun infiltrators, but the AIU doesn't have to put up with any of the GI's drawbacks.

Or if that's still not clear enough for you:

GI   = high-risk, high-reward = balanced
AIU = no-risk, high-reward = broken

GI is not balanced. Never has been.

[xtorma]

COLZ7R wrote...

Been playing since day 1 and the great argument of a op class spoiling divercity is a joke. Never in over 1700 games have i been in a lobby with everyone using the same class. The only time you see that is speedrunners on youtube. The argument always comes down to the i dont like other people doing as good as me line, dress it up how you like but that is the entire argument. How other people choose to play the game has never effected my enjoyment. Are they control freaks, who only get enjoyment by telling others what to do?

It's more in line with, balance for the sake of balance. Not many of these guys calling for nerfs really need to play edibot. They are not afraid of being outscored. They see an imbalance, and that is it, game over...must nerf.

[vonSlash]

xtorma wrote...
GI is not balanced. Never has been.

Not compared to your average class, no, but the GI is a dangerous class to play if you aren't a highly skilled player, and if someone without the skill and experience to take advantage of the class's top-tier damage output tries to play shotgun infiltrator with it, they'll spend most of their time dead or spamming Ops packs to stay alive. I'm calling it balanced because relatively few players can actually take full advantage of the GI, and in the hands of average players it doesn't do any better than other classes.

And even if we assumed that the GI is too powerful, it would only strengthen my original argument, because if the AIU is more OP than a class that is already OP, it only becomes more important that the class gets an immediate nerf.

[xtorma]

Immortal Strife wrote...

cuzIMgood wrote...

Overpowered compared to other classes.
Kills variety in the game.
Makes the game feel much too easy.

Many classes are powerful.
There are 65 characters.
The game is only challenging with a few kits.

I agree here. It's balance for the sake of balance, when at this point in the life of the game it just isn't needed. EDIbot does not matter. With 64 other choices, and unpteen different playstyles, a few op kits make 0 difference. You can't balance infiltrators, but it hasn't killed the game. kroguard is op, yet hasn't killed the game. The reason is that op is not as fun, so people leave off the kroguard to find a kit that is more fun.

[Saints]

xtorma wrote...

GI is not balanced. Never has been.

It has been. You do have to sacrifice health for the highest dmg input for proxmine debuff, HM damage increase(which lowers shields), TC advantage(which the AI can still look for you through cheating) and passives. It is a High Risk/High Reward class.

Modifié par Saints944, 28 février 2013 - 04:52 .

[sareth_65536]

xtorma wrote...
 Someone who is a team player is not going to suddenly stop just because of edibot. 

but he can w/o any efforts if he wants to. And many ppl do this, I've seen it already

[Bechter]

Kalas321 wrote...

If you cant see how she is game breaking I dont know what to say.

She makes the tgi look like the hunter.

modok8 wrote...

I couldn't care less what happens to her
But the people calling for nerfs are exaggerating her efficacy

Nope

Your post is a complete exaggeration.

Hey nice imaginary banner.

[xtorma]

vonSlash wrote...

xtorma wrote...
GI is not balanced. Never has been.

Not compared to your average class, no, but the GI is a dangerous class to play if you aren't a highly skilled player, and if someone without the skill and experience to take advantage of the class's top-tier damage output tries to play shotgun infiltrator with it, they'll spend most of their time dead or spamming Ops packs to stay alive. I'm calling it balanced because relatively few players can actually take full advantage of the GI, and in the hands of average players it doesn't do any better than other classes.

And even if we assumed that the GI is too powerful, it would only strengthen my original argument, because if the AIU is more OP than a class that is already OP, it only becomes more important that the class gets an immediate nerf.

EDI is op, i just don't see a good reason to nerf her when you have so many other choices. 64 other ways to play, i don't see a massive influx of games with 4 edibots happening. Unless you subscribe to the balance for the sake of balance crew, which is a complete failure because there are still a ton of op classes and weapons in the game no one even complains about.

Granted, something will happen to edi, but what can it be without a patch? drop the duration of repair to 5 seconds and all it does it make it so you have to be a litte faster on the keys, and your dps will drop a bit, certianly not enough to get her balanced, especially with grenade gear.

People are simply calling for nerfs because of what they think MAY happen, when there is no evidence at all that edibots are going to take the game over and ruin it.

That being said, look at the way i have her specced, and you can see I do not plan on using her. I don't care if they nerf her, or even delete her. doesn't matter to me. I just don't see the reason why so many people are up in arms about something that really doesn't matter at this stage of the game.

[SOMETHING_FOR_NOTHING]

did you know that game balance is pretty much a useless argument now after this last DLC....it dont matter now game is 1year old with a shrinking population in the end the same ppl who calling for nerfs are the same ppl who will jump ship and leave a bad legacy of nerfs for the current players

[xtorma]

Saints944 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

GI is not balanced. Never has been.

It has been. You do have to sacrifice health for the highest dmg input for proxmine debuff, HM damage increase(which lowers shields), TC advantage(which the AI can still look for you through cheating) and passives. It is a High Risk/High Reward class.

if you think the gi is balanced ,then you can't be reasoned with.

[Simba501]

Immortal Strife wrote...

Many classes are powerful.

. . .

This.  I will never understand how effective or stronger than other weapons/characters = OP.  It's as if people want everything to function as uncommon weapons/characters. 

BSN logic.

Modifié par Simba501, 28 février 2013 - 05:10 .

[Saints]

xtorma wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

GI is not balanced. Never has been.

It has been. You do have to sacrifice health for the highest dmg input for proxmine debuff, HM damage increase(which lowers shields), TC advantage(which the AI can still look for you through cheating) and passives. It is a High Risk/High Reward class.

if you think the gi is balanced ,then you can't be reasoned with.

Explain it to me.

[Kalas Magnus]

Saints944 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

GI is not balanced. Never has been.

It has been. You do have to sacrifice health for the highest dmg input for proxmine debuff, HM damage increase(which lowers shields), TC advantage(which the AI can still look for you through cheating) and passives. It is a High Risk/High Reward class.

nope

high base shields mean that he benefits greatly from cyclonics
he also has high speed to move around soft cover easily
he has wallhax so he can pick and chose who to attack
can stagger mooks with pm

he used to be the best

No class with tactical cloak can be called "high risk"

Modifié par Kalas321, 28 février 2013 - 05:14 .

[xtorma]

sareth_65536 wrote...

xtorma wrote...
 Someone who is a team player is not going to suddenly stop just because of edibot. 

but he can w/o any efforts if he wants to. And many ppl do this, I've seen it already

Those people do it anyway. the only thing edibot does it make it so you don't have to watch them bleed out and force you to three man a game. win/win in my book.

[tjbearpig]

The fembot is not that OP. You can still get insta-gibbed by bosses when you auto-res

Unless you're fighting Geth. If they still have some form of stunlock you could get screwed over.

Then again Repair Matrix doesn't work all the time (off-host anyways, sometimes I toggled it on and I didn't auto-rage-gel)

[Fortack]

Xyrm wrote...

Fortack wrote...
Final evolution of the lolmatrix. If you go down and get back up for free you take 75% less damage. Activate lolmatrix again and you are completely immune to all damage for a while (except sync kills).

Incorrect.  The game has a hard cap on DR of 90%.  You are *ALMOST* completely immune to damage.

The lolbot doesn't have damage reduction. The description says "takes % less damage". Having said that, it's well known that Bioware havr a pathetic record as far as in-game descriptions go, so I wouldn't take their word on it

[Kalas Magnus]

Bechter wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

If you cant see how she is game breaking I dont know what to say.

She makes the tgi look like the hunter.

modok8 wrote...

I couldn't care less what happens to her
But the people calling for nerfs are exaggerating her efficacy

Nope

Your post is a complete exaggeration.

Hey nice imaginary banner.

nope


Cry some more bechter.

Modifié par Kalas321, 28 février 2013 - 05:42 .

[Saints]

Kalas321 wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

GI is not balanced. Never has been.

It has been. You do have to sacrifice health for the highest dmg input for proxmine debuff, HM damage increase(which lowers shields), TC advantage(which the AI can still look for you through cheating) and passives. It is a High Risk/High Reward class.

nope

high base shields mean that he benefits greatly from cyclonics
he also has high speed to move around soft cover easily
he has wallhax so he can pick and chose who to attack
can stagger mooks with pm

he used to be the best

No class with tactical cloak can be called "high risk"

As long he is not soloing then tactical cloak has not much of a high risk. I'll give you that but IMHO I've only see only skilled players use him well. Most just die trying to take a whole group by themselves.

[Dark Tlaloc]

Saints944 wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

GI is not balanced. Never has been.

It has been. You do have to sacrifice health for the highest dmg input for proxmine debuff, HM damage increase(which lowers shields), TC advantage(which the AI can still look for you through cheating) and passives. It is a High Risk/High Reward class.

nope

high base shields mean that he benefits greatly from cyclonics
he also has high speed to move around soft cover easily
he has wallhax so he can pick and chose who to attack
can stagger mooks with pm

he used to be the best

No class with tactical cloak can be called "high risk"

As long he is not soloing then tactical cloak has not much of a high risk. I'll give you that but IMHO I've only see only skilled players use him well. Most just die trying to take a whole group by themselves.

I have yet to see a PUG dominate with a GI the way you see
on BSN; top the scoreboard? Yes, but it’s usually close. The GI is plenty
squishy, and the argument that added a Cyclonic Mod negates this is unfair,
because that same mod can be thrown on an AUI (or any other class). With no items
at all, the AUI can still run around a map at will, kill a couple things, get
killed, self-revive, and kill some more. It rewards careless gameplay, because
unlike the GI, you don’t need to learn how to avoid enemies attacks very much.

 

Again, I don’t care if she’s nerfed or not, but she
certainly doesn’t have any of the “risk” that a high-risk, high-reward
character should have, which makes you question why other kits have such high
risks/disadvantages.

 

 

How bout we just get a buff to the majority of other
classes, instead?