256 réponses à ce sujet

[Geakker]

I don't have a problem with increasing the skill level of PuGs. But there is another problem with "OP" kits in a coop game

First of all. I like the AIU and I did my first solo Glold game after Retilation with her Took me 50 min so meh.

The general problem with Coop games and balance is that in case of Mass effect 3 MP no kit should stand out aginst any other kit. That imbalance of one or a few kits being better then the rest makes the game less variable and people will tend to play only those kits that are "OP" since its the most effective one. You can imagine this will get boring at some point.

Instead the game should encourage a balanced state so the player can decide what kit he wants to play because he enjoys them not because its the most effective one. A player want to be good and if his favourite kit (or the kit he currently likes to play) is unable to compete with other kits (other players) he is not having as much fun as possible. Its not always about having the best team possible. At least not for everyone. And even they will get a little sad if they are always at the buttom of the leaderboards.

So its quite resonable that player ask for a balanced coop game. And I agree. But saying that the AIU is "OP" is another topic. Cutting out the self revive is not an option in my opinion. But I do believe the duration of Repair Matrix is a little too high. I can easyly keep it running non stop with 2 grenades. That should not be the case. Also the shield regeneration is incredible. Its hard to get taken down in gold (I did get taken out because of mistakes and one unlucky case in my solo gold game. Had to use 2 medigel. Also I had Cyclonic IV ). This makes the AIU a lot easier to play.

Repair Matrix seems to be the issue here but its nothing that actually makes me feel playing this class exclusively. Its a defensive ability and not an offensive one. There are a few kits that are standing out defensively and none of them are a real issue to me. Some small adjustments and she is fine. Nothing to worry about.

Buggy arrows of the Talon (you are unable to shoot the advanced arrows until its default shoot trigger is triggered if you press and hold the melee button too early after equipping an advanced arrow) and Poison Strike of the Cabal (maybe its the range of effect or its just does not deal any damage at all in some cases) is a way bigger issue. Then again, Juggernauts "zoning ability" is way more prominent than a single kit standing out slightely.

Modifié par Geakker, 28 février 2013 - 05:39 .

[Ledgend1221]

The AIU has no weakness and all strentghs.

Tac cloak.
CC ability.
Powerful melee.
Movement speed bonus.
Fast dodge.
Regen shields while cloaked.
Shotgun damage bonus.
Area Debuff.
Auto-gel.

That's not balanced at all.

[Quarian_Lover]

nerfers are boshtet ******

[Simba501]

Geakker wrote...

. . .
The general problem with Coop games and balance is that in case of Mass effect 3 MP no kit should stand out aginst any other kit. That imbalance of one or a few kits being better then the rest makes the game less variable and people will tend to play only those kits that are "OP" since its the most effective one. You can imagine this will get boring at some point.

Instead the game should encourage a balanced state so the player can decide what kit he wants to play because he enjoys them not because its the most effective one. A player want to be good and if his favourite kit (or the kit he currently likes to play) is unable to compete with other kits (other players) he is not having as much fun as possible. Its not always about having the best team possible. At least not for everyone. And even they will get a little sad if they are always at the buttom of the leaderboards.

 . . .

I completely disagree.  No kit should stand out against any other kit?  That, in my opinion, would kill multiplayer.  I think everyone already chooses what they enjoy; I do.  As some have stated before, no kit makes anyone better.  I've seen tons of Kroguards and TGIs who clearly aren't very skilled.  The game has an amazing amount of variety.  So much so, that I rarely see anyone using the same character - including post-DLC (since everyone is complaining about variety being at risk).

[etm125]

Still haven't heard any reasonable argument as to why Repair Matrix isn't OP. the closest was someone saying the GI does more damage and stim packs and energy drain are better for survivability. The GI does more damage -- barely and stim packs/ED arent even in the same universe as RM for survivability. The entire idea of durability/survivability goes right out the window when dying just means you have an animation delay and get right back up.

Somebody also said its not OP because you can auto rez into a synch kill. So because you can e synch and aren't literally immortal it's not OP? I get the feeling evwn if she was immune to synch kills said same people would also claim she's not OP.

Sometimes I wonder if half the people saying she's fine have actually really tested her.

Can someone with recording equipment please PLEASE take easybot with grenade cap V into a game and just try to die as many times as possible (vid sped up to 10x) with a death counter in the top -- and that backgroud music with the kazoo that always plays when an old school comedy video is sped up -- you know, with the midget chasing after a humongous dude?

I'd love to make that and see anyone try to claim shes not OP with a straight face.

[Striker93175]

'nuff said. 

Modifié par Striker93175, 28 février 2013 - 06:05 .

[lightswitch]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

The AIU has no weakness and all strentghs.

Tac cloak.
CC ability.
Powerful melee.
Movement speed bonus.
Fast dodge.
Regen shields while cloaked.
Shotgun damage bonus.
Area Debuff.
Damage reduction.
Auto-gel.

That's not balanced at all.

You forgot one thing, fixed.

OuterRim wrote...

I have an easy solution for you. Don't play the bot. Next.

*emphasis added*

Right here is the problem. Because guess what? We're not going to play the bot. The vast majority of experienced players feel a twinge of guilt using something so brokenly OP. I feel like I'm cheating just using a Drell Adept or GI, but this at a whole nother level. The AIU is broken, and consequently unplayable for the games most dedicated players.

Considering this is the last DLC, I was really hoping for six solid kits that would add a lot of replay value. But the AIU has nothing for the people who were most relying on the DLC to extend their interest in the game.

Modifié par lightswitch, 28 février 2013 - 06:08 .

[Kalas Magnus]

Striker93175 wrote...




  

lol

[xtorma]

etm125 wrote...

Still haven't heard any reasonable argument as to why Repair Matrix isn't OP. the closest was someone saying the GI does more damage and stim packs and energy drain are better for survivability. The GI does more damage -- barely and stim packs/ED arent even in the same universe as RM for survivability. The entire idea of durability/survivability goes right out the window when dying just means you have an animation delay and get right back up.

Somebody also said its not OP because you can auto rez into a synch kill. So because you can e synch and aren't literally immortal it's not OP? I get the feeling evwn if she was immune to synch kills said same people would also claim she's not OP.

Sometimes I wonder if half the people saying she's fine have actually really tested her.

Can someone with recording equipment please PLEASE take easybot with grenade cap V into a game and just try to die as many times as possible (vid sped up to 10x) with a death counter in the top -- and that backgroud music with the kazoo that always plays when an old school comedy video is sped up -- you know, with the midget chasing after a humongous dude?

I'd love to make that and see anyone try to claim shes not OP with a straight face.

It's not op to me because it doesn't matter to me. I only use it for buffs. It's not balanced, but there are plenty of classes that are not balanced. It does help poorer players, sure, but so do a lot of other kits. I don't have a problem with it, because it does not effect me in the slightest.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

> At fancy restaurant with GF
> Enjoying tasty omni-gel
> Thinking about dating a Collector
> Disappointed with life
> Look over to the right
> See Collector at table
> IT'S TIME
> Slip Cyanide into GF's food
> Walk over to Collector
> Take pants off
> Ascension Mode Engaged, Assuming Control of This Form
> Have Collex in restaurant
> Collectulate all over the restaurant
> Restaurant smells like omni-gel
> Becomes hive

[lightswitch]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

USIncorp0 wrote...

No she's not. Snap freeze is a better debuff, RM has more survivability because LOL CANT DIE, Snap freeze will freeze entire mook spawns in a single cast. She has the Shadow's dodge and energy drain only works on shielded and synthetic targets.

You're telling me that it's better than Shadow Strike, Energy Drain and most of all, fawking Stim Pack for not-dying?

You're telling me that Snap Freeze is better than Electric Slash, Grenades, and Recon Mine?

....There are no words.

So, what you're saying is, Energy Drain is better for survivability than Repair Matrix.

...

...

...

I don't know what to say.

[BattleCop88]

modok8 wrote...

I couldn't care less what happens to her
But the people calling for nerfs are exaggerating her efficacy

They (nerfers without a good reason or arguement) always exaggerate the efficiency of whatever it they want nerfed.

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

> At fancy restaurant with GF
> Enjoying tasty omni-gel
> Thinking about dating a Collector
> Disappointed with life
> Look over to the right
> See Collector at table
> IT'S TIME
> Slip Cyanide into GF's food
> Walk over to Collector
> Take pants off
> Ascension Mode Engaged, Assuming Control of This Form
> Have Collex in restaurant
> Collectulate all over the restaurant
> Restaurant smells like omni-gel
> Becomes hive

..../thread?

[Ledgend1221]

BattleCop88 wrote...

modok8 wrote...

I couldn't care less what happens to her
But the people calling for nerfs are exaggerating her efficacy

They (nerfers without a good reason or arguement) always exaggerate the efficiency of whatever it they want nerfed.

This is one time where there is a good arguement.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

lightswitch wrote...

So, what you're saying is, Energy Drain is better for survivability than Repair Matrix.

...

...

...

I don't know what to say.

I was mostly emphasizing Stim Pack, but whatever.

[BattleCop88]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

BattleCop88 wrote...

modok8 wrote...

I couldn't care less what happens to her
But the people calling for nerfs are exaggerating her efficacy

They (nerfers without a good reason or arguement) always exaggerate the efficiency of whatever it they want nerfed.

This is one time where there is a good arguement.

Exactly. I don't really want it nerfed since I don't have it or know the feel, but I've seen at least decent arguments, unlike some other situations where nerfs were totally unnecessary.

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

BattleCop88 wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

BattleCop88 wrote...

modok8 wrote...

I couldn't care less what happens to her
But the people calling for nerfs are exaggerating her efficacy

They (nerfers without a good reason or arguement) always exaggerate the efficiency of whatever it they want nerfed.

This is one time where there is a good arguement.

Exactly. I don't really want it nerfed since I don't have it or know the feel, but I've seen at least decent arguments, unlike some other situations where nerfs were totally unnecessary.

I remember that Javelin nerf thread....best example of what you just wrote.

[lightswitch]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

So, what you're saying is, Energy Drain is better for survivability than Repair Matrix.

...

...

...

I don't know what to say.

I was mostly emphasizing Stim Pack, but whatever.

Stim packs won't resurrect you, don't continually regen your shields while they're active, they have a shorter duraction, don't give you a damage reduction, and they won't make you so fast nothing can hit you if you're running.

[codename2o2]

I don't really think its about inexperienced players using her as training wheels for higher difficulties. I'm fine with that. What I'm mainly worried about is veteran players abusing how easy it is to use her and her insane damage output to completely wipe spawn points before anyone else even gets there. Sure it's a coop game, points are shared, there is no kill stealing, yadda yadda yadda. But in all honesty I don't play this game to watch someone else solo the entire match.

I remember when when the GI came out. Gold games were infested with them and if you didn't play one, you were going to be basically useless throughout the match. I fear that is what will happen with the EDIbot now.

[xtorma]

codename2o2 wrote...

I don't really think its about inexperienced players using her as training wheels for higher difficulties. I'm fine with that. What I'm mainly worried about is veteran players abusing how easy it is to use her and her insane damage output to completely wipe spawn points before anyone else even gets there. Sure it's a coop game, points are shared, there is no kill stealing, yadda yadda yadda. But in all honesty I don't play this game to watch someone else solo the entire match.

I remember when when the GI came out. Gold games were infested with them and if you didn't play one, you were going to be basically useless throughout the match. I fear that is what will happen with the EDIbot now.

MQI says hi.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

lightswitch wrote...

Stim packs won't resurrect you, don't continually regen your shields while they're active, they have a shorter duraction, don't give you a damage reduction, and they won't make you so fast nothing can hit you if you're running.

They allow you to go 2000+ over max shields and this lasts for a while, since you can do it from max shields, not just from scratch, giving you 3200 or more shields for enough time to do a disarm objective. They also give you a decent damage bonus.

[Dark Tlaloc]

My experience with PUGs and the AUI so far (on Gold), has been:

AUI runs away from group, cloaks and kills some enemies.
Cloak runs out, AUI goes down.
Repair matrix kicks in, AUI gets up, and starts shooting enemies again. Once enemies are dead and/or teammates show up, AUI runs to another point on the map.

*repeat 3-5 times each wave*


I don’t particularly care, as I’d rather a PUG lives than dies (makes the mission easier for me), but it certainly looks like this kit is in general being used by lazy people who have no real right playing an infiltrator on higher difficulties.

[codename2o2]

xtorma wrote...

codename2o2 wrote...

I don't really think its about inexperienced players using her as training wheels for higher difficulties. I'm fine with that. What I'm mainly worried about is veteran players abusing how easy it is to use her and her insane damage output to completely wipe spawn points before anyone else even gets there. Sure it's a coop game, points are shared, there is no kill stealing, yadda yadda yadda. But in all honesty I don't play this game to watch someone else solo the entire match.

I remember when when the GI came out. Gold games were infested with them and if you didn't play one, you were going to be basically useless throughout the match. I fear that is what will happen with the EDIbot now.

MQI says hi.

Now I remember why I hate trying to actually have a discussion on these boards. Whatever

[megabeast37215]

My thread got shut down and I got directed to this one? Such BS.

http://social.biowar.../index/16075503

That's my main point. It's a kit that will make PUGs easier... and you won't have to babysit bad players as much or at all once they figure it out.

Also... they can nerf it all they want, and it won't matter. They can't nerf the revival aspect of DM without a patch... so go ahead and nerf the DR/Speed/Shield Regen... it won't matter.

If they nerf snap freeze it won't matter... it will still prime everything through every protection type b/c it's broken... so what could they nerf on it? The debuff? Please... the 5-10% they would nerf, the AIU more than makes up for.

Last is her unique Tac Cloak... it would take a 20% nerf to actually make a dent, and that's not going to happen either.

Basically... she's here to stay as she is.