256 réponses à ce sujet

[retic]

I seriously hope these pro nerfers ranting about the AIU do not enter any e-sport event like sc2 or tekken tag 2.

[Dark Tlaloc]

megabeast37215 wrote...

My thread got shut down and I got directed to this one? Such BS.

http://social.biowar.../index/16075503

That's my main point. It's a kit that will make PUGs easier... and you won't have to babysit bad players as much or at all once they figure it out.

Also... they can nerf it all they want, and it won't matter. They can't nerf the revival aspect of DM without a patch... so go ahead and nerf the DR/Speed/Shield Regen... it won't matter.

If they nerf snap freeze it won't matter... it will still prime everything through every protection type b/c it's broken... so what could they nerf on it? The debuff? Please... the 5-10% they would nerf, the AIU more than makes up for.

Last is her unique Tac Cloak... it would take a 20% nerf to actually make a dent, and that's not going to happen either.

Basically... she's here to stay as she is.

She SHOULD probably get a little bit of a damage nerf
somewhere in her character though, in the interests of giving her some sort of
downside; she’d be like the evolution of the TGI, faster and harder to kill,
but not as DPS-oriented.

[xtorma]

codename2o2 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

codename2o2 wrote...

I don't really think its about inexperienced players using her as training wheels for higher difficulties. I'm fine with that. What I'm mainly worried about is veteran players abusing how easy it is to use her and her insane damage output to completely wipe spawn points before anyone else even gets there. Sure it's a coop game, points are shared, there is no kill stealing, yadda yadda yadda. But in all honesty I don't play this game to watch someone else solo the entire match.

I remember when when the GI came out. Gold games were infested with them and if you didn't play one, you were going to be basically useless throughout the match. I fear that is what will happen with the EDIbot now.

MQI says hi.

Now I remember why I hate trying to actually have a discussion on these boards. Whatever

the point was there are many other characters who can do the exact same thing, but no one said jack before. at least edibot has to actually shoot or freeze things. she can't outrun a grenade.

[etm125]

Striker93175 wrote...


'nuff said. 

this actually just made me laugh out loud in my lecture hall. 

[megabeast37215]

Dark Tlaloc wrote...
She SHOULD probably get a little bit of a damage nerf
somewhere in her character though, in the interests of giving her some sort of
downside; she’d be like the evolution of the TGI, faster and harder to kill,
but not as DPS-oriented.

She probably will get a damage nerf... but it's not really going to make much of a difference, espcially if her rank 6 in cloak is multiplicative.

Without a patch... the things that make her broken cannot be fixed, and I'm fairly confident there will be no more patches.

[xtorma]

Dark Tlaloc wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

My thread got shut down and I got directed to this one? Such BS.

http://social.biowar.../index/16075503

That's my main point. It's a kit that will make PUGs easier... and you won't have to babysit bad players as much or at all once they figure it out.

Also... they can nerf it all they want, and it won't matter. They can't nerf the revival aspect of DM without a patch... so go ahead and nerf the DR/Speed/Shield Regen... it won't matter.

If they nerf snap freeze it won't matter... it will still prime everything through every protection type b/c it's broken... so what could they nerf on it? The debuff? Please... the 5-10% they would nerf, the AIU more than makes up for.

Last is her unique Tac Cloak... it would take a 20% nerf to actually make a dent, and that's not going to happen either.

Basically... she's here to stay as she is.

She SHOULD probably get a little bit of a damage nerf
somewhere in her character though, in the interests of giving her some sort of
downside; she’d be like the evolution of the TGI, faster and harder to kill,
but not as DPS-oriented.

Cant mess with snap freeze as it would screw over the paladin. That leaves tac cloak, which you would basically have to neuter to make a difference, or repair matrix, which you can cut back on dps and duration, but it will have little effect, and wont stop the "free med-gel is op" crowd. Take away her passives maybe, heck I do not know how to do it without a patch that would quell the tears.

Or you could just accept the fact that it really doesn't matter a whole lot, and go back to nuking spawns with the mqi, now that takes skillz!

[COLZ7R]

Happens with every dlc. Just ignore them. Best to not reply(feeds their ego). Most are just control freaks that will have little to none say in their everyday lives so the keyboard warriors are born. Have never seen a pro nerff thread that does not boil down to "i dont like how others play" dressed up how they like but that IS their only point.

[IndigoVitare]

Justinmiles19 wrote...
After the Great krysae war, Volus offensive, Battle of the TC, we have come at last to the AUI war.

I do not recall anything about the Volus being unbalanced, but the other two...

Well, does anyone still deny that the Krysae was brokenly overpowered? I admit, they might have gone a little overboard, especially as it's suffered further from power creep, but I'd rather have a bad gun that a stupidly good one.

TC is still, undeniably, the best ability in the game. It's no coincidence that whenever someone complains about a specific hero being overpowered it's almost always an Infiltrator. Let's just take a look back shall we:

1. Geth Infiltrator.
2. Turian Infiltrator
3. Drell Infiltrator.
4. Edibot Infiltrator.

Please note, I do not have the Edibot, so I cannot argue about its balance. I am arguing for balance changes as a whole.

Tactical Cloak is what connects these, and though it's highly unlikely we'll ever get a change of the magnitude it needs, I very much hope that they completely redesign it for ME4. It needs to be changed on a very fundamental level.

Now, there is one advantage the EDIbot has that those other 3 listed don't. The GI shares Hunter Mode, the TI shares Stim Packs, the DI shares Recon Mine. Nothing else in the game has Repair Matrix. This means that the Edibot can be subject to all manner of balance changes in an effort to get it right, without worrying about damaging another character. That is probably why people are targeting that ability in particular. It is the synergy between all her powers that creates the problem; just as with the other Infiltrators.

Regarding your general arguments; To claim it is a co-op game is not a relevent defence. Balance is integral to the lifespan of a game. It also makes the game more enjoyable for a wider group of people. Had the game been released with the current version of TC would people complain that it was underpowered? No, because they have no comparison to make. The rage about nerfs comes from that comparison; "it's worse than before" is confused with "it's terrible now".

The argument that it lets people play on higher difficulties just highlights the problem. If someone uses Godmode to get through a difficult level they could not have done normally does it magically stop being a cheat?

Modifié par IndigoVitare, 28 février 2013 - 06:50 .

[N7 ElusiveOne]

xtorma wrote...

or repair matrix, which you can cut back on dps and duration

DPS? RM doesn't offer offensive utility.

[sobit]

Noobs with the AIU will outscore you.

No they won't, that's not the Reason I'm complaining.
I'm complaining because:
Survivability & low damage? -> Kroguard (Reegar is cheap on him, don't bring that up)
Glass canon? -> Drell Adept
Why not both? -> AIU (/TGI)
It kinda renders other kits obsolete.

Well just don't use it then. Voilà, other kits are relevant again.

How can you say that? How can you just stand there while BW takes the principle of Risk and Reward, which is the highest measure for almost everything they ever did, and messes it up completely?

It's a coop game. Aren't you happy you don't have to carry every single f*cking gold PUG anymore?

Then why was the Krysae nerfed? Why don't we all have sessions were we all missile glitch? after all, it benefits us as well, right?
No, not if it's thanks to cheap tactics. I would be happy if the other player is genuinely good at the game.

How's that?

Modifié par sobit, 28 février 2013 - 07:06 .

[etm125]

COLZ7R wrote...

Happens with every dlc. Just ignore them. Best to not reply(feeds their ego). Most are just control freaks that will have little to none say in their everyday lives so the keyboard warriors are born. Have never seen a pro nerff thread that does not boil down to "i dont like how others play" dressed up how they like but that IS their only point.

Yet another ad hominem attack from the anti-balance crowd. No discussion of the power itself, no reasons why its not overpowered. Just attacks that have nothing to do with what's being discussed. Debate at its finest. 

[Stathis1992]

To all of you nerfers-retards (cause you really are), it is the LAST DLC, let people have their fun, if you are ****ing so much about a single kit go play another game (I recommend pacman or tetris). Bioware made at last a pure shotgun infiltrator and the only you do is cry, is she very good? Yes, Is she maybe the best infiltrator right now? Yes. The problem? Even TGI hadn't this much rage, TGI still more broken for me. Stim packs > repair matrix cause you have much higher chances to live. Repair matrix has a downside: You die and you instantly get up with a phantom/banshee you name it right above you, guess what happens. No peace, you are really bad players. Ouf I said it, /rant out.

P.S: Shotguns require and some skill, ARs don't.

Modifié par Stathis1992, 28 février 2013 - 07:10 .

[xtorma]

IndigoVitare wrote...

Justinmiles19 wrote...
After the Great krysae war, Volus offensive, Battle of the TC, we have come at last to the AUI war.

I do not recall anything about the Volus being unbalanced, but the other two...

Well, does anyone still deny that the Krysae was brokenly overpowered? I admit, they might have gone a little overboard, especially as it's suffered further from power creep, but I'd rather have a bad gun that a stupidly good one.

TC is still, undeniably, the best ability in the game. It's no coincidence that whenever someone complains about a specific hero being overpowered it's almost always an Infiltrator. Let's just take a look back shall we:

1. Geth Infiltrator.
2. Turian Infiltrator
3. Drell Infiltrator.
4. Edibot Infiltrator.

Please note, I do not have the Edibot, so I cannot argue about its balance. I am arguing for balance changes as a whole.

Tactical Cloak is what connects these, and though it's highly unlikely we'll ever get a change of the magnitude it needs, I very much hope that they completely redesign it for ME4. It needs to be changed on a very fundamental level.

Now, there is one advantage the EDIbot has that those other 3 listed don't. The GI shares Hunter Mode, the TI shares Stim Packs, the DI shares Recon Mine. Nothing else in the game has Repair Matrix. This means that the Edibot can be subject to all manner of balance changes in an effort to get it right, without worrying about damaging another character. That is probably why people are targeting that ability in particular. It is the synergy between all her powers that creates the problem; just as with the other Infiltrators.

Regarding your general arguments; To claim it is a co-op game is not a relevent defence. Balance is integral to the lifespan of a game. It also makes the game more enjoyable for a wider group of people. Had the game been released with the current version of TC would people complain that it was underpowered? No, because they have no comparison to make. The rage about nerfs comes from that comparison; "it's worse than before" is confused with "it's terrible now".

The argument that it lets people play on higher difficulties just highlights the problem. If someone uses Godmode to get through a difficult level they could not have done normally does it magically stop being a cheat?

So we know the problem is infinite revives. how does it effect you? I understand your fear that everyone will suddenly start playing edibots and the game will fall of the edge of the virtual world, but I see no evidence of that. Every game i play has a nice mix of characters in it.

People who play well are going to continue to play well, no matter how op edibot is. My most used character since the dlc was released is my asari justicar. MQI, TGI, both seriously op kits, yet you did not see 3 of them in every match before the dlc dropped, i suspect that pattern will continue with edibot.

If it gets to the point where edibots are taking over the game, like infiltrators back in the day, then by all means nerf the crap out of edibot, but until it starts to have an adverse effect on the game, nerfing it is wasted time. It does not effect you if a crap player is able to revive 50 times a match. You are still going to be able to recognize and red X them same as if they were there on any other class.

Good players will gravitate toward the more challenging classes, because it's always been that way. They may use edibot more for speedruns, but unless she can put out better dps than a GI or MQI there is really no reason to use her, because they are good enough not to need 6 medgels per run.

The people who are asking for balance are doing it only for the sake of balance, even though no balance has ever been achieved in this game since day 1. It's a noble undertaking, but at this stage of the game, it really doesn't matter.

All that being said, if they nerf her it will effect me just as much as if they do not nerf her, which is 0, so as i said before, from my point of view, it doesnt really matter.

[ryoldschool]

Stathis1992 wrote...

To all of you nerfers-retards (cause you really are), it is the LAST DLC, let people have their fun, if you are ****ing so much about a single kit go play another game (I recommend pacman or tetris). Bioware made at last a pure shotgun infiltrator and the only you do is cry, is she very good? Yes, Is she maybe the best infiltrator right now? Yes. The problem? Even TGI hadn't this much rage, TGI still more broken for me. Stim packs > repair matrix cause you have much higher chances to live. Repair matrix has a downside: You die and you instantly get up with a phantom/banshee you name it right above you, guess what happens. No peace, you are really bad players. Ouf I said it, /rant out.

P.S: Shotguns require and some skill, ARs don't.

Disagree with a lot in this post.

(1) Don't use insult when addressing people with different opinion from you, they probably won't listen to anything you say after that.

(2) Not the best infiltrator ( Gi says hello )

(3) Shotguns requiresome skill -???  Its all just getting into position and aiming///

[Adragalus]

I really don't get it.
>people who use medigel a lot are bad
>the previous upper limit was 9 a match
>EDIbot has Repair Matrix
>RM allows for grenade use, therefore refills from TCPs
>this allows for 40 medigels a match, plus refills from ammo boxes
>therefore the class is disgustingly overpowered

Can someone explain to me how having 40 medigels makes her overpowered?

[cronshaw]

Kalas321 wrote...

So because she isnt the missile glitch, she is ok?
The is broken. Even by infiltrator standards. 
If you are on xbox I'll show you.

Alas PS3
but you probably wouldn't be showing me anything I don't already know
and I never said I thought a nerf for her was a bad idea
my problem is less with the calls for nerfs
and more with the chicken-little tone of those calls.

[xtorma]

Adragalus wrote...

I really don't get it.
>people who use medigel a lot are bad
>the previous upper limit was 9 a match
>EDIbot has Repair Matrix
>RM allows for grenade use, therefore refills from TCPs
>this allows for 40 medigels a match, plus refills from ammo boxes
>therefore the class is disgustingly overpowered

Can someone explain to me how having 40 medigels makes her overpowered?

I think its the whole package people are worried about, not just the repair matrix. The repair matrix is just the power they are zeroing in on.

[sobit]

Adragalus wrote...

I really don't get it.
>people who use medigel a lot are bad
>the previous upper limit was 9 a match
>EDIbot has Repair Matrix
>RM allows for grenade use, therefore refills from TCPs
>this allows for 40 medigels a match, plus refills from ammo boxes
>therefore the class is disgustingly overpowered

Can someone explain to me how having 40 medigels makes her overpowered?

If she had Concussive shot and, like, bubble, hex shield or cryoblast instead of TC and snap freeze, noone would say anything.

but alas. she has TC and snap freeze. It's the whole thing that plays into her being OP.

[COLZ7R]

@etm125
Whats the point? Never have i seen any nerff argument that does not boil down to "i dont like how others play" if someone wants to play the edibot non stop...so what! Gold/plat their is still a lot of enemys for you to kill. They will not nuke entire spawns before you get their(not countin juggs!!) most people on here laugh about how bad pugs are, so what difference does it make if they are using a strong kit?
Is their a list somewhere of "allowed" kits to deemed passable to do good with?
Really get off your high horse, please inform me of why someone using edibot dilutes your enjoyment of the game that is not " i dont like them doing well" (or a variation of it)

[sobit]

and I'm still waiting for arguments against the post I made before.

[xtorma]

ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

or repair matrix, which you can cut back on dps and duration

DPS? RM doesn't offer offensive utility.

Speed and damage reduction is always going to have a positive effect on dps.

[Mr McKillAlot]

funny thing is the geth inf is still the most op inf with a shotgun and one the most op classes in the full game yet no one complaines about him anymore there was no new solarians deal with it if theres a character you nerfers dont like then dont use them and kick people who do from your game problem solved ive not seen hardly anyone use her ive played like 30 games the last 3 says and out of those 30 gold/plat games only seen her acctualy used 4 times if she was op shed get abused just like the gi but hes so good with a claymore because of rate of fire bonus with accuracy aswell and he has more of a damage bonus than her aswell shes acctualy pretty underpowerd to some the other infultrators

[Adragalus]

xtorma wrote...

Adragalus wrote...

I really don't get it.
>people who use medigel a lot are bad
>the previous upper limit was 9 a match
>EDIbot has Repair Matrix
>RM allows for grenade use, therefore refills from TCPs
>this allows for 40 medigels a match, plus refills from ammo boxes
>therefore the class is disgustingly overpowered

Can someone explain to me how having 40 medigels makes her overpowered?

I think its the whole package people are worried about, not just the repair matrix. The repair matrix is just the power they are zeroing in on.

It's been stated before that AIU gets less bonus damage than the TGI, with more range and (based on Harrier vs Claymore for the relevant classes, best guns I've used on them) more multitarget engagement ability and less downtime, even with reload cancel. I'd say that, to me, Stimpacks are more useful, what with the "full shields and then a few thousand" thing.

That and I see the staggeringly illogical "ERMEGHERD FERTY MERDIGERLS" tossed around so much that it's starting to wear a little thin.

Edit: also I find myself missing the GI's ranged everything-debuff and accuracy bonus.

Modifié par Adragalus, 28 février 2013 - 07:32 .

[IndigoVitare]

xtorma wrote...
So we know the problem is infinite revives. how does it effect you? I understand your fear that everyone will suddenly start playing edibots and the game will fall of the edge of the virtual world, but I see no evidence of that. Every game i play has a nice mix of characters in it.

People who play well are going to continue to play well, no matter how op edibot is. My most used character since the dlc was released is my asari justicar. MQI, TGI, both seriously op kits, yet you did not see 3 of them in every match before the dlc dropped, i suspect that pattern will continue with edibot.

If it gets to the point where edibots are taking over the game, like infiltrators back in the day, then by all means nerf the crap out of edibot, but until it starts to have an adverse effect on the game, nerfing it is wasted time. It does not effect you if a crap player is able to revive 50 times a match. You are still going to be able to recognize and red X them same as if they were there on any other class.

Good players will gravitate toward the more challenging classes, because it's always been that way. They may use edibot more for speedruns, but unless she can put out better dps than a GI or MQI there is really no reason to use her, because they are good enough not to need 6 medgels per run.

The people who are asking for balance are doing it only for the sake of balance, even though no balance has ever been achieved in this game since day 1. It's a noble undertaking, but at this stage of the game, it really doesn't matter.

All that being said, if they nerf her it will effect me just as much as if they do not nerf her, which is 0, so as i said before, from my point of view, it doesnt really matter.

I don't actually have a problem with the EDIbot right now. It's too soon for me to have seen much of it, and as I said, I don't have it myself. Even if I can see it looks OP, I do not feel I can form a real opinion on it. I was just guessing at what the problem might be, as well as defending the idea of balance changes as a whole. This thread mainly discussed it in general, rather than specific terms, hence why I felt I could contribute to the discussion.

I do agree that significant balance changes might be rarer in the future. Bioware are obviously winding down MP support as we reach the end of its lifespan and more resources must be dedicated to ME4. That's fine, but balance as a whole is still an important discussion. My real fear is that Bioware, despite their own industry experience, actually decide listen to the vocal groups that simply don't understand game design and in doing so, doom whatever sequel we get to this superb multiplayer experience we've been given.

Stathis1992 wrote...

To all of you nerfers-retards (cause you really are)

Reported.

Modifié par IndigoVitare, 28 février 2013 - 07:38 .

[Wolfsbladex]

Justinmiles19 wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

People who complain about nerfs keep going to the score argument, even though no one who wants the AIU needed mentions score at all.

Explain your reasoning to me.

You must be master race beacuse every Nefrer ive met on the Xbox complains all day long about it. And if not the score then what is the reason?

Ignorance is bliss.