535 réponses à ce sujet

[dumdum2]

Eric, the first thing I did when I got that character was to set it up just as you described it (though this thread didn't exist back then) and the problem for me wasn't really the damage but the fact that 75% of the shots missed its target.

Even if the target was standing still the arrows would go straight through it dealing no damage what so ever (I am host, Xbox). Also, as always the auto-aim for this is a pain when you have Swarmers around.

Also, how do you recommend this class to be effective with the bow against Phantoms and Banshees considering that they block your power arrows? If you only use the melee arrows you won't be able to take a Phantom or a Banshee down on Platinum since their barriers will come back faster than you can take them away.

[FAButzke]

I've played a lot of matches (10-15) with the Talon before coming here and I, at first, thought it was terrible. You just need to learn the ins and outs of the kit. I even extracted on Platinum (in first place) with the Talon. I have a few tips if anyone is interested in trying it out.

Cain trip mines are your friend. Max this tree. You don't need the enemy to activate your mine. After the third mine (the fourth) will detonate the first mine you've placed. Abuse it and you'll see the havoc you can cause.

Concussion Arrows are awesome. Max this tree. Phantoms (despite what the wiki says) have NO CHANCE against you if you see them coming. One arrow (heavy melee) will send those pesky Phantoms flying (even with shields). I may be wrong but I think I even saw a Phantom with a bubble getting hammered. Shields will NOT cancel the concussion effect (Rocket Troopers, Hunters, Centurions, Captains...) You can send all of them flying.

AP Arrows. I didn't max this one but, even at level 3 I could kill Dragoons with 2 (or 3) heavy arrows.

Elite Mercenary: I went for a level 5 with this one (maxing out power damage at level 5)

Omni-Bow: Melee all the way. (100%)

Weapon: Scorpion (I like the AOE and you can shoot a few times at the enemy, let a concussion go, enemy flies away still exploding and usually dies. Phantoms (on Gold) do not have a chance in my experience.)
Equipment: Grenades (instead of Hydraulics)

Abuse trip mines (placing them on walls when defending and at the enemy's feet when attacking) and use the arrows when needed: Concussion for phantoms, rockets, hunters and AP for anything heavier (pyros, dragoons, brutes.)

You can save your team many times if you spam trip mines at their feet while your team is surrounded by enemies (or one of you has been grabbed by a Banshee for example) It's even faster than take your rocket out.

When in need of more grenades: Thermal Clip (I haven't encountered the bug).

When surrounded and low on mines, spam concussion (it will spread and hit many targets instead of just one). Every target will be "infected" by the concussion effect (shock in my case) and can be detonated by your team. I don't think the chill effect can be detonated though. This will also stagger low level troops and can give you time to escape.

Needless to say, now, I like the Talon a lot. =)
The reset but is my only complaint. Using F to aim is terrible.

[Mr McKillAlot]

i wish the team would fix the glitch where you get stuck in his bow animation for 10seconds and cant shoot that would really be nice as no point playing with him when hes in glitch mode

[Djarknaein]

Change description of batarian gauntlet to say it changes your heavy melee to falcon punch. Tried it on talon and was stuck the whole match with out heavy bow.

[Cole Jones]

justinblac wrote...

Megakoresh wrote...

Fixing the bugs on him so he is actually playable would be nice first and foremost.

True.  I had seven Cain mines that appeared to be active at the same time and the enemies kept walking through and around them.  I know through is not right, but are the enemies supposed to be able to walk around the mines? Also, I had one stuck to a wall near the floor at the bottom of the ramp in glacier but nothing ever set it off.  It stayed there from wave 1 on.

Were you Off Host? If so they simply don't visual go away but they are gone./

[Constant Motion]

Mindfane wrote...

I think the two arrow powers should be like normal powers (like Ballistic Baldes) with a cooldown. Then we can leave his melee damage at what it currently is.

Also being an engineer I expected some tech based powers on him. I thought I would see Incendiary arrows and Electrical arrows. That we he could prime and detonate tech explosions. he is an engineer and xplosions should happen wherever he goes.

Oh, I quite like that he's a bit different. The original mission statement for the engineers was that they'd use their powers to control and sculpt the battlefield, and while there's a bit of that, there's a slight propensity to just make them elemental casters. The Talon Merc though, in many ways, is one of the characters who really succeeds in fulfilling that brief. The (fantastic!) trip mines and the cooldown-free elemental effects are part of that.

Speaking of! I had a go with Eric's suggested Talon build on silver, and I did quite enjoy it. I came second, and I was KOing geth pyros with little to no effort, but he was indeed incredibly fragile. I think he does need a little more work, but there's a germ of a really cool idea in there.

[kingvenom41392]

i gave mine a scorpion and a harrier maxed his trip mines for damage gave him health and extra grenade capacity with the armor arrows i rarely use and camp him out it worked very well on plat i also tried him with the batarian gautlet but the limited melee damage wasnt worth it

[HELLHOUND_ROCKO]

what? the team wants "to make sure he is a viable kit at all difficulty levels"?

so then give this melee character either hitpoints or melee damage - because all upgrades to one of the two categories together are still unable to create any anyhow decent value - as the base value is just to tiny - like this, he always will stay the CTM carrier in a 500/500 base HP common char-model that also could use a grenade for two good OB-shots that he is by now... .

it was stated so often here in the last time: all of the 500/500 base HP chars were ever weak - but by the games current state they are just ridiculous weak and should be buffed because of it - and now you release another such char as our last human - and give him also a very long power-cast duration (so he needs to stick his nose out of cover for the cast that it would be 3 times enough to die for him with his low HP on gold)
- and even make it count as a melee attack that is solely to him not allowed to kill even an unprotected 900 healthpoints bronze mook by any means (so regardless of permanent melee damage bonuses active) as long you are not in the mood to spend a grenade for casting out !a different attack! that is just same styled?

this kit needs a complete overlook or will stay a regular, just bronze-worthy common human male, that sacrifices crowd-control powers and a melee ability for being allowed to carry the CTM!

Modifié par HELLHOUND_ROCKO, 01 mars 2013 - 03:15 .

[Combat Mage]

The Talon omni-bow auto-targeting isn't great, IMO. Many times I've found that I target a Boss unit and hold down my Heavy Melee to start pulling my arrows in tight and some mook wanders into my LoF and the auto-targeting locks onto it instead, and then it becomes oddly difficult to manually switch targets.

Also, the auto-firing of the crossbow after a set period of time is REALLY annoying. If my intended target dies before I release my AP shot, and I don't see another viable target, I should be able to NOT fire the crossbow - I mean, I'm the one choosing to fire it, right?

Up until I tore my rotor cuff a few years ago I was an Archer in RL for fun/sport. If I was holding my aim with a bow for any length of time and found my strength waning, I could, you know, relax my muscles and NOT fire. I didn't have a muscle spasm which caused me to immediately fire wildly in a random direction because that would have been insane and got me chucked off the archery range. So why does it happen to the Talon?

[SilentStep79]

thanks for the tips.
will get this guy back in the lab and work on him.

[Kuato Livezz]

HELLHOUND_ROCKO wrote...

what? the team wants "to make sure he is a viable kit at all difficulty levels"?

so then give this melee character either hitpoints or melee damage - because all upgrades to one of the two categories together are still unable to create any anyhow decent value - as the base value is just to tiny - like this, he always will stay the CTM carrier in a 500/500 base HP common char-model that also could use a grenade for two good OB-shots that he is by now... .

it was stated so often here in the last time: all of the 500/500 base HP chars were ever weak - but by the games current state they are just ridiculous weak and should be buffed because of it - and now you release another such char as our last human - and give him also a very long power-cast duration (so he needs to stick his nose out of cover for the cast that it would be 3 times enough to die for him with his low HP on gold)
- and even make it count as a melee attack that is solely to him not allowed to kill even an unprotected 900 healthpoints bronze mook by any means (so regardless of permanent melee damage bonuses active) as long you are not in the mood to spend a grenade for casting out !a different attack! that is just same styled?

this kit needs a complete overlook or will stay a regular, just bronze-worthy common human male, that sacrifices crowd-control powers and a melee ability for being allowed to carry the CTM!

This.  I might as well skip the bow, equip a claymore and spam cain mines.   The bow is great, but the long cast animation, and the squishiness makes him a PIA.  The damage output isn't worth it.

[Blackvals]

There should be an official topic that explains every power of every kit, if it benefits from biotic, tech or melee bonuses.
Thanks for the tips on the Talon, I was looking forward to a bow-build, so perfect for me .

[Tandle]

Tried the melee route for the arrows, just doesn't do enough damage for it. Also, I don't know how you fix it, but a fix for the off-host issue would make me willing to at least give him another chance.

[Krazy_Kirby]

Tang Tsu wrote...

Another significant problem on consoles is that heavy melee must be charged but it requires the player to take his thumb off the stick for the duration of the charge up. This limits mobility and thus survivability. Preferably Omni bow would be a bumper ability.

Well the bow is supposed 2 lock on so you woulldn't need to keep your thumb on the right stick, however you could very easily use your index finger to do it. (still not a ideal character but its a way around it.)

[Nariala]

His biggest problem currently is the buggyness of locking on. Sometimes its clearly a open shot, but it wont fire till I move around what appears to be bad geometry detection.

Combine that with the already longwinded windup for a full hit, and how slow its rate of fire is, its kinda lackluster.

I get the design team was probably thinking "long range heavy melee to OP" but this guy is a glass cannon, only he is using styrofoam for amunition. I wish I hadn't wasted a respec on him and focused on armor piercing, as it seems to not hit half the time.

This class was clearly built for PC controls too, I don't have mobility problems due to that, but I can see using the hold down thumbstick thing being a royal pain.

His tripmine things are a joke, I've seen atlas walk over them without anything triggering but then a stray phantom glides near it and it blows up before they are in range of the blast. (This is on laggy hosts and as host, seems more bugged than a latency issue)

[Omnifarious Nef]

This, with F_agna's build, (It bleeps out ****nan? LOL)I just finished agame of Gold on Giant against Reapers with 150k. With his build, he can one shot Marauders with ap arrows, two shot Ravagers, and 3-4 shot Brutes. He was also surprisingly doing a lot of damage to Banshees. My only grips with him is the fact that it takes 40-45 seconds to get back 1 "ammo" for arrows, and that you have to have like 500% extra melee damage to do what I would call normal levels of damage. This was especially noticeable on Giant, as most of the boxes were being stingy and only handing out one grenade at a time, and that you were mostly out in the open. Lots of right hand advantage to be had there in that match.

Modifié par NeferiusXji, 01 mars 2013 - 05:31 .

[Krazy_Kirby]

HELLHOUND_ROCKO wrote...

what? the team wants "to make sure he is a viable kit at all difficulty levels"?

so then give this melee character either hitpoints or melee damage - because all upgrades to one of the two categories together are still unable to create any anyhow decent value - as the base value is just to tiny - like this, he always will stay the CTM carrier in a 500/500 base HP common char-model that also could use a grenade for two good OB-shots that he is by now... .

it was stated so often here in the last time: all of the 500/500 base HP chars were ever weak - but by the games current state they are just ridiculous weak and should be buffed because of it - and now you release another such char as our last human - and give him also a very long power-cast duration (so he needs to stick his nose out of cover for the cast that it would be 3 times enough to die for him with his low HP on gold)
- and even make it count as a melee attack that is solely to him not allowed to kill even an unprotected 900 healthpoints bronze mook by any means (so regardless of permanent melee damage bonuses active) as long you are not in the mood to spend a grenade for casting out !a different attack! that is just same styled?

this kit needs a complete overlook or will stay a regular, just bronze-worthy common human male, that sacrifices crowd-control powers and a melee ability for being allowed to carry the CTM!

The base human infiltrator has 500/500 and I do great with him on gold. 4/6/6/6/4 with a piranha.

[Omnifarious Nef]

Krazy_Kirby wrote...

HELLHOUND_ROCKO wrote...

what? the team wants "to make sure he is a viable kit at all difficulty levels"?

so then give this melee character either hitpoints or melee damage - because all upgrades to one of the two categories together are still unable to create any anyhow decent value - as the base value is just to tiny - like this, he always will stay the CTM carrier in a 500/500 base HP common char-model that also could use a grenade for two good OB-shots that he is by now... .

it was stated so often here in the last time: all of the 500/500 base HP chars were ever weak - but by the games current state they are just ridiculous weak and should be buffed because of it - and now you release another such char as our last human - and give him also a very long power-cast duration (so he needs to stick his nose out of cover for the cast that it would be 3 times enough to die for him with his low HP on gold)
- and even make it count as a melee attack that is solely to him not allowed to kill even an unprotected 900 healthpoints bronze mook by any means (so regardless of permanent melee damage bonuses active) as long you are not in the mood to spend a grenade for casting out !a different attack! that is just same styled?

this kit needs a complete overlook or will stay a regular, just bronze-worthy common human male, that sacrifices crowd-control powers and a melee ability for being allowed to carry the CTM!

The base human infiltrator has 500/500 and I do great with him on gold. 4/6/6/6/4 with a piranha.

I just got top score in a Gold match with the talon doing a no health build. 150k. Just look at my post above.

[Durzo___Blint]

I really want to like this guy, as do many others by the sounds of it. Using him on Silver or Gold is just about feasible but I've spec'd out of one or the other of his arrow powers completely to allow some compensation elsewhere - works quite well if hosting to be fair. But, as has been stated, it requires you max out melee options/attachments/consumables, and wanting to run with 'nade gear V compromises performance somewhat. Trying to use a console controller (I'm on PS3) makes it even harder, almost cripples it tbh. I reckon that if they allowed the R1/L1 bumpers to auto select an arrow power and perform the melee button action (ie, hold down bumper to focus the arrows before release) would leave the melee button just for non-powered arrow attacks - or just some kind of standard melee anyway, instead of something to do with shooting an arrow. This would allow you to aim with the right stick which would work great if the targetting mechanism just "snapped-to" whoever you were highlighting at the time with the right stick. They way it's configured at the moment is too complex for what you would normally want to do with it. The only downside to this would be the inabilty to stack power arrows before firing but, to be honest, all BW would need to do is remove the stacking option and just give each power arrow (nade usage) a singular damage/charge value.

Prob would need a patch though so I'm struggling to see how they can "fix" this guy.....

Maybe BW just thought that some characters were simply not supposed to be viable for Gold+, I dunno....

[WaffleCrab]

I use falcon and hurricane with max damage cain, = Omnibow is useless falcon keeps those phantoms in a nice stun lock while you, place your mines around/retreat away from them.

The bow is not worth it to sacrifice the HP and shields. Also not worth using if your not the host.

[BundokJon]

One nice trick with the omni-bow is that if you lock on at an opponent, then start pulling the trigger right after the arrow shot, your reticule will already be sighted in so you can place a follow-up shot with almost zero delay. It's pretty much an auto-aim.

I was using the M-11 pistol and the Mattock, it seems to work best with a harder-hitting semi-auto with no scope. It makes even the unpowered arrows a little more viable.

[Viryu]

When I first saw him, I was like, anything but him, he looks horrible. Not skills, but his looks and design, ugh. And ofcourse he was the character I got from the gift pack, and afterwards it just got better...

OneTrueShot wrote...

I think the problem isn't how 'good' he is, it's his viability in gold. I used that exact same build on Gold along with two other players whom I consider wholly competent, and the only conclusion we could come to for Gold and above is to spec full power damage and use the cain mines whilst using him as a dynamic weapons platform, only using the bow as a debuff instead of an offensive.

Pretty much that. Cain mines were the only reasonable thing to use, and even that was random, because enemies could just appear from a different corridor, mines could be wasted on a husk, or phantoms, dragoons and whatever, could just bug out and not trigger the explosives. Not to mention there's a small arming time, so it can't be just spammed like that. While playing Talon I caught myself just using Harrier, while leaving mines as arm and forget. Bow was quite useless - if a Husk or Abomination goes after you, it takes a while to use one of the bow powers AND another while to focus a heavy "melee," which convinced me to just skip using it all together and just use guns.

[Drunkencelt]

Once again, with maximized mods/gear/power/melee talents his bow damage is still too horrible.
1. His natural heavy melee feels like the weakest in the game, light is great for stagger. Since these are arrows his melee should have innate piercing.
2. For having to use the same gear/power mods for a krogan warlord he does 1/10th the damage. I understand krogan warlord is in melee range and should do more, but give us 75%.
3. Armor Piercing arrows are not gold/platinum viable. Weakest grenade based power in the game.
4. Cain trip mine is op when it works.

[Constant Motion]

NeferiusXji wrote...

This, with F_agna's build, (It bleeps out ****nan? LOL)I just finished agame of Gold on Giant against Reapers with 150k.

Fagnan.

ETA: Seems fine to me!

Modifié par Constant Motion, 01 mars 2013 - 06:15 .

[ManRightChea]

He needs better base bow damage or charge regeneration speed IMO. You are basically forced to choose between crappy bow damage or no fitness on an already squishy guy. I don't think I would take him to Platinum. Thinking about speccing out of concussive arrows to compensate elsewhere.

Modifié par ManRightChea, 01 mars 2013 - 06:22 .