535 réponses à ce sujet

[TazMonkey2011]

The thing I have found with the Cain Mine is that it is a trip mine, not a Proximity mine. meaning the red laser has to acctually be triped in order for it to blow. so if you put it on the ground and an enemy sees the laser he can walk around it. If you put it up too high then some enemies can walk under it, and lastly for some reason cloaked enemies can walk through the line (which may be working on the same mechanic as targeting the cloaked enemies.)

[IrishDeath420]

I did all of that and still don't feel the bow is worth using. His mine is pretty cool though.

[cato potato]

I can't get the hang of this character at all. I tried the advice in the OP but considering how many consumables and mods you need to use (plus having little HP after going melee in fitness) the damage payoff from the omni bow is just not worth it.

I was able to kill a gold brute in 3 armour piercing shots, but only if there were no cannibals or marauders around because they'd kill me before I could fire a single shot.

The chargeup animation is too long on a character this squishy, the bow requires consumables & mods to be barely adequate damage wise, the bow often decides to target the least dangerous threat and has many other glitches.
Overall, if it wasn't for the trip mine focussed weapons platform build then I'd consider the Talon the worst character in the game.

[Drunkencelt]

Another tip I noticed. This might further emphasize he is a gun based build with a support bow. When you use your omnibow, it lines up the target so the second your bow fires you can pull the trigger. It will instantly give you a 50/50 chance at headshot.

[Fenix Hero]

Honestly if he wasn't so squishy it wouldn't be so bad, it's either get the health & shields points and just use trip mines or put your points into omni bow and barely be able to shoot it or do any damage. Also he's pretty buggy where if you don't hold it to the right time with the heavy melee it won't even fire properly or itll get stuck and you have to wait for it to fire itself. Not to mention you shouldnt have to equip tons of power ups just to be viable.

Modifié par Fenix Hero, 01 mars 2013 - 07:37 .

[robarcool]

It will still suck because of key remapping and not enough points. Also, enemies dodge the arrow too often.

[Sacrificial Bias]

Sorry Eric, but I don't feel this class is usable unless you buff him in enough ways to drastically change the class itself.

Problem 1 is that he's buggy. I'll sometimes have the arrow shot lined up, yet he'll still be tracking the target a full 5 seconds after I release the melee button.

Problem 2 is that his damage really REALLY sucks. I was playing on Silver and a single Concussive Arrow(locked on) failed to kill a lone abomination. Now granted I didn't take the power damage evolutions, nor did I even evolve the Concussive Arrows for damage, but I did have a Reegar with Omni-Blade attachment and all the fitness melee evolutions. On any other character in the game aside from the Volus, a heavy melee would have killed it instantly on Silver with fitness melee evolutions, or leave it near dead without fitness.

I should also point out that any character that needs full tier III consumables to make it VIABLE is horribly underpowered.

Gameplay is also clunky. It takes time to load a charge, it takes very long to fire the arrows, and you have to keep reloading a charge every 2-3 shots. Quite frankly another guy with a Widow ends up killing even mooks faster than me because it takes less time for him to fire and reload the single shot Widow than it takes for me to load a charge, fire at 2 enemies, and reload another charge.

The risk is not worth the reward. Throw does more damage. Throw tracks enemies around cover. Throw does not leave you exposed for 5 seconds out of cover. Throw is not limited by grenade capacity.

As for the debuff aspect, I would argue that Tactical Scan is superior in all the above aspects. Not stopped by cover. A more powerful debuff effect. Does not take 5 seconds to debuff a target. Cannot be dodged. Is not limited by grenade capacity. Does not leave you exposed.

Aside from the Cain Mines, which entire crowds of enemies can walk through and not set off, the Talon Merc does not fulfill a role not already exceeded by every other available class, including the starter classes.

I honestly feel less frustration from using the Human Adept.

[Fenix Hero]

Sacrificial Bias wrote...

Sorry Eric, but I don't feel this class is usable unless you buff him in enough ways to drastically change the class itself.

Problem 1 is that he's buggy. I'll sometimes have the arrow shot lined up, yet he'll still be tracking the target a full 5 seconds after I release the melee button.

Problem 2 is that his damage really REALLY sucks. I was playing on Silver and a single Concussive Arrow(locked on) failed to kill a lone abomination. Now granted I didn't take the power damage evolutions, nor did I even evolve the Concussive Arrows for damage, but I did have a Reegar with Omni-Blade attachment and all the fitness melee evolutions. On any other character in the game aside from the Volus, a heavy melee would have killed it instantly on Silver with fitness melee evolutions, or leave it near dead without fitness.

I should also point out that any character that needs full tier III consumables to make it VIABLE is horribly underpowered.

Gameplay is also clunky. It takes time to load a charge, it takes very long to fire the arrows, and you have to keep reloading a charge every 2-3 shots. Quite frankly another guy with a Widow ends up killing even mooks faster than me because it takes less time for him to fire and reload the single shot Widow than it takes for me to load a charge, fire at 2 enemies, and reload another charge.

The risk is not worth the reward. Throw does more damage. Throw tracks enemies around cover. Throw does not leave you exposed for 5 seconds out of cover. Throw is not limited by grenade capacity.

As for the debuff aspect, I would argue that Tactical Scan is superior in all the above aspects. Not stopped by cover. A more powerful debuff effect. Does not take 5 seconds to debuff a target. Cannot be dodged. Is not limited by grenade capacity. Does not leave you exposed.

Aside from the Cain Mines, which entire crowds of enemies can walk through and not set off, the Talon Merc does not fulfill a role not already exceeded by every other available class, including the starter classes.

I honestly feel less frustration from using the Human Adept.

Ahmen Brotha

[FAButzke]

ManRightChea wrote...
...I don't think I would take him to Platinum. Thinking about speccing out of concussive arrows to compensate elsewhere.

FAButzke wrote...
...I even extracted on Platinum (in first place) with the Talon

TazMonkey2011 wrote...

The thing I have found with the
Cain Mine is that it is a trip mine, not a Proximity mine. meaning the
red laser has to acctually be triped in order for it to blow. so if you
put it on the ground and an enemy sees the laser he can walk around it.
If you put it up too high then some enemies can walk under it, and
lastly for some reason cloaked enemies can walk through the line (which
may be working on the same mechanic as targeting the cloaked
enemies.)

FAButzke wrote...
You don't need the enemy to activate your mine. After the third mine
(the fourth) will detonate the first mine you've placed. Abuse it and
you'll see the havoc you can cause.

Try some of this and see if it helps you guys:

http://social.biowar...348/11#16087456

[diosprometheus]

I know the trip wires are buggy. I deliberately watched them when I was playing him and I have seen others playing him. In many cases there will be as many as a half dozen wires down and none of them will fire. Even lower levels such as husks and abominations will walk right through them. If they get on you because the wires don't go off his melee skills are not sufficient enough to fight them off. His AP arrows are not as good as his concussive ones. I have also had his bow lock up and not fire when taking aim with heavy melee. Even with the build proposed above which I posted a few days ago at ME3 TI: Multiplayer group on Facebook, his AP arrows are weak in comparison to his concussive ones.

[NuclearTech76]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/16087395

This thread maybe helpful to some, I hope.

[Drunkencelt]

It feels like you balanced his regular heavy melee damage around having bonus powers activated.

It is a projectile arrow that should have natural piercing. It should do the same damage without Armor Piercing arrows. Then armor piercing arrow will make a major buff when you actually apply it.

It feels like the base arrows are worthless and therefor the powers don't add much. The melee modifiers can't majorly improve an extremely low base.

[Drunkencelt]

Note this thread is about omnibow tips. Noting that you do super well only using weapons and cain mine is moot.

We all know cain mine is very strong and works well on spawns.

[holdenagincourt]

Dracian wrote...

The problem is not the omni bow, but the fact that it's buggy (reset controls)

This. I have no way of assessing this character at all, because my key bindings reset to default and thermal clip consumables disappear every time I use him (on and off host, four times out of four).

Weirdly, even rebinding my keys to custom while in-match does not actually succeed in rebinding his key use. The menu says the changes took, but none of them work.

I really want to try him out because he seems unique and not mindless roflstomp like...certain of the other new characters, but in his current bugged condition he's basically unplayable for me.

[bobby_paradise]

holdenagincourt wrote...

Dracian wrote...

The problem is not the omni bow, but the fact that it's buggy (reset controls)

This. I have no way of assessing this character at all, because my key bindings reset to default and thermal clip consumables disappear every time I use him (on and off host, four times out of four).

Weirdly, even rebinding my keys to custom while in-match does not actually succeed in rebinding his key use. The menu says the changes took, but none of them work.

I really want to try him out because he seems unique and not mindless roflstomp like...certain of the other new characters, but in his current bugged condition he's basically unplayable for me.

Same here. And THIS make this build unplayable for me as I used to play with with something quite remapped.

[Sacrificial Bias]

Here's another thing that bugs me:
The "charge" system.

I frankly find it very annoying at best, even on the Krogan Warlord. Quite frankly I think both kits would have done better if these abilities were a very simple "press button to activate on cooldown". Concussive Arrow ---> AP Arrow ---> Heavy Melee while both debuffs are on the target, with the heavy melee having more damage than both abilities, whereas the abilities activate without the 5 second waiting period, just have the ability be a single homing shot like Throw.

Ditto with the Warlord. Press R2 for Electric Hammer, Heavy Melee, Press L2 for Biotic Hammer. With Heavy Melee doing more damage, but Biotic Hammer having an armor/barrier bonus, and electric hammer more for clearing nuisances like husks and abominations.

The charge system just completely confuses me to no end. It's completely unnecessary and complicates something that should have been very simple without adding a new mechanic into the mix.

[squidney2k1]

I hate to say it, but the bow is just bad.

• For one, in order to get the most out of the bow, you must kill an enemy with it in order to get the melee synergy bonus. This is very difficult due to lag, janky targeting, and the weak initial damage. And it only lasts about 8 seconds, which is what most weapon synergy bonuses last. You can get about 2-5 shots off (depending on lag) MAXIMUM within that time frame, whereas every round from a weapon would get a bonus
• The bow's initial damage is terribly weak. Now I can understand part of that since it's a free ranged melee attack, but in the same time frame it takes to drawn, fire, and hit a target, you could've done at least 2-3x that damage with even the weakest weapons. It almost makes it not worth the risk of exposing yourself to harm, except for the novelty.
• Power damage from the Concussive/AP arrows are also very low. They're also nothing special. Cain trip mines are hard to set-up, but have a massive payoff for the risk and skill needed. These arrows, since they are consumables, should have a higher payoff for the risk and use, much like a regular grenade. Armor Piercing arrows don't pierce, and concussive arrows have have such low damage, that their only practical use is for knocking enemies around....but wait, we can already stagger them with regular arrows in the first place.

Bottom line is that this is a terrible unbalanced character. The novelty is appealing, but the application is poor. It's not just that the damage values are too low, but rather that the entire concept doesn't have synergy within the gameplay itself. It's almost daring you to try to use the powers in order to be different, rather than actually having effective powers in the first place.

But at this point, I'm not sure what Bioware can do to fix this character, as much of it would probably require a patch in order to change the basic gameplay characteristics of how the bow works. For now (i.e. Balance Changes), I guess the only options are to just symply increase damage like crazy:  Increase base damage; increase melee synergy damage bonus; increase base health/shields since using the bow requires you to explose yourself (made worse by lock-on lag); increase base arrows per shot so that the spread shot isn't completely worthless; decrease consumable arrow count, BUT increase power damage of each arrow; decrease Cain Mines to compensate. Make it worthwhile!

Modifié par squidney2k1, 01 mars 2013 - 09:14 .

[Nariala]

after running about 10 matches as host, the omnibow seems to perform much better without any latency. I regularly top charts just using the bow and the bolts.

[Kingston Atticus]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

OneTrueShot wrote...

I think the problem isn't how 'good' he is, it's his viability in gold. I used that exact same build on Gold along with two other players whom I consider wholly competent, and the only conclusion we could come to for Gold and above is to spec full power damage and use the cain mines whilst using him as a dynamic weapons platform, only using the bow as a debuff instead of an offensive.

Yeah, I had on all melee gear and power amps along with the heavy blade. I'll try him again tonight on host to see if maybe that was part of the issue. I cannot remember who was host then?

Eric, would it be better to slap on the power amp and melee stunner on the pistol? The heavy blade gives 50% melee bonus versus 25% for the stunner but the power amp is an additional 30%.

Always maximize melee damage.

Good to know. I've been running him with an Executioner pistol with stunner and power enhancer mods, A strength mod 3, cryo 3 or 4 (Just because I love watching things exploded from my arrows) juggernaught gear 5 and a cyclonic mod 3/4(Since he only has 625 health and shields when all points are in the bow, so he is squishy).
 
Guess I will replace the cyclonic out for a power amp, and the executioner for a shotty with a blade. But the juggernaught is probably still better for the strength and shield increase, than a mod with a straight strength increase just for the small survivability it adds.

But I could be wrong. Let's see what you think, he is your baby afterall. And I REALLY apreciate and LOVE helpful advice ESPECIALLY from the men and women who know the stuff the most, like all you wonderful Devs.

[IoeShepard]

I only problem with talon lately is that it glitches into the hud-overlay of the GI... and my screen starts to flicker...haven´t given him another run yet.

So i focused on "one" ammo power to max it out and it seems to work for me.
Its not overwhelming but ok.

Haven´t tried him on platinum yet - this is going to be a lot of running...

[WaffleCrab]

NeferiusXji wrote...

This, with F_agna's build, (It bleeps out ****nan? LOL)I just finished agame of Gold on Giant against Reapers with 150k. With his build, he can one shot Marauders with ap arrows, two shot Ravagers, and 3-4 shot Brutes. He was also surprisingly doing a lot of damage to Banshees. My only grips with him is the fact that it takes 40-45 seconds to get back 1 "ammo" for arrows, and that you have to have like 500% extra melee damage to do what I would call normal levels of damage. This was especially noticeable on Giant, as most of the boxes were being stingy and only handing out one grenade at a time, and that you were mostly out in the open. Lots of right hand advantage to be had there in that match.

they werent stingy, BW gods in their all mighty "wisdom" decided to revert the nade boxes back to giving 1 nade.... yeah a real dick move whe you consider that they gave us 3 new characters that pretty much SPAM those things. oh and in the process made playing a grenade build with the old characters, that much more less of a fun.

Thanks for that bioware :S

[ollpet]

I specced him for maximum bow dmg, i used lvl four gear and melee equipment. He still dosent work on gold i finished with less then 20k points, deadlast. I might be a bad player but im not that bad....

[Sacrificial Bias]

ollpet wrote...

I specced him for maximum bow dmg, i used lvl four gear and melee equipment. He still dosent work on gold i finished with less then 20k points, deadlast. I might be a bad player but im not that bad....

5 bucks says you probably would have scored higher if you slapped him with a lolgar and Black Widow and simply shot things instead.

Concussive Arrow sounds like it could have been a good idea, if it weren't for the fact that Concussive SHOT serves the exact same role and is spammable.

And as juicy as AP Arrow is, a single Black Widow shot would easily produce the same level of damage, but without the annoying 5 second wait time between shots.

[mountainlion2]

This class was my "gift" and I feel like the kid who was last in line and this was all that was left. Everything seems rushed about it, from the balance of attacks to the art work. His head shot looks awful. The bow is a waste of time. I did more damage faster with the M-3 I was grinding on to a dragoon than the bow did with two shots of AP. On paper his powers look cool, but in the field he's a disaster.

[Kalray]

Well, I have read this and had another go with this class using an open mind.
Verdict - Total waste of space!!!

Is this class a booby prize for people you know dont buy packs with cash?

1) Bow is to slow.
2) Spread shot is a waste of time
3) By the time you have a lock the enemy has taken cover.
4) THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO SYNERGY WITH ANY WEAPON. Your either trying to use your bow or your gun.
5) The AP arrows only seem to work every now and again

I was really intrigued by this class and thought it would really suit my style of play. pfft!