His powers are fine the way they are. The character is good. I try to play him, but always on the 4th place. Need more practice. Thanks for the tips anyway.
What base arrow damage does he have? I read that it is 100. Am I right? I want to make some calculations for a build.
Talon Engineer Omni-Bow Tips
Débuté par
Eric Fagnan
, févr. 28 2013 06:03
Retour en haut
#327
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 04:25
mr.storken
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Thanks for the tips,but he still dont work on gold even if you use this build. not enough damage.
#328
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 04:26
LeinadSemrig
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AlexForward wrote...
His powers are fine the way they are. The character is good. I try to play him, but always on the 4th place. Need more practice. Thanks for the tips anyway.
What base arrow damage does he have? I read that it is 100. Am I right? I want to make some calculations for a build.
His Cain mines are fine. His bow isn't. With the ammount of specialization and sacrifice the bow requires, it should be more like 1000 damage base at least. He is incredibly hard to use because of his skillset, but he pales in comparison of overall power unless you rely entirely on the trip mines. That's not balance, that's broken. The ammount of effort you have to put into him does not match his power output.
#329
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 04:51
The Makr
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This guy needs a rework, not a damage boost.
#330
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 05:07
TheThirdSpectre
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The Makr wrote...
This guy needs a rework, not a damage boost.
This. Balance changes be kind
#331
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 05:28
OO629
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I was using 6-6-6-6-0 with mine radius,armor damage,damage and every grenade capacity options on the arrows with the +3 thermal clip gear bonus and just spammed the mines. Each thermal clip pack refill 10 mines so I have at least 90 mines to throw around. 6 mines was all i needed to kill a gold Prime with full health 
Once I find a reset card I'll try the suggested build.
Once I find a reset card I'll try the suggested build.
#332
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 05:46
AlexForward
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The Cain mines are very powerful, but have limited utility. Arrows have low damage, but you can fire 5 arrows by using powers. Total damage is over 1000, which is similar to incinerate, for example, but without cooldown.LeinadSemrig wrote...
AlexForward wrote...
His powers are fine the way they are. The character is good. I try to play him, but always on the 4th place. Need more practice. Thanks for the tips anyway.
What base arrow damage does he have? I read that it is 100. Am I right? I want to make some calculations for a build.
His Cain mines are fine. His bow isn't. With the ammount of specialization and sacrifice the bow requires, it should be more like 1000 damage base at least. He is incredibly hard to use because of his skillset, but he pales in comparison of overall power unless you rely entirely on the trip mines. That's not balance, that's broken. The ammount of effort you have to put into him does not match his power output.
And who said it would be easy. He is hard to handle, just like Drell, or Phoenix characters. Lets wait for the balance changes, and then will decide what to do. I like this character, because I'm an Outsider (Outsider Mastery FTW)
And I still don't know the base arrow damage.
Modifié par AlexForward, 02 mars 2013 - 05:48 .
#334
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 06:41
ROBOTICSUPERMAN
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WaffleCrab wrote...
ROBOTICSUPERMAN wrote...
The real issue with this character is that he's In a place where when he's at max melee, he's okish. The armour piercing arrows are good on the max melee build, concussive is ok too.
But buffing his melee to make it ok when specing out of max melee, this will mean that if you spec max melee you could start one shotting banshees on gold. Quite a predicament for bioware really.
no the problem is buggyness of the character and the fact is too damn squishy to spec for bow only, no matter how you look at it the character is poop if you spec him for arrows, and you would need to be the host to have any use for them.
you have just said no, then aggreed with me.
everyone is complaining because hes squishy because they speced full melee to get the full damage potential out of him. or theyre complaining because the spec shields to stop the squishyness and his melee doesnt do enough damage.
but if they increase the melee damage to suit the shield fitness users, then the melee fitness users will be OP.
if they increase his shields, then the melee fitness users will be happy but shield fitness users will be more tanky than a krogan on steroids
the issue with aiming at an enemy for 5 seconds is more likely to do with your connection(maybe platform too?), if im in a really laggy match it happens alot, else it rarely ever happens with a decent connection. this is not likly to be fixable by bioware.
ive never had an issue with the arrows not hitting the target, unless its a phantom dodge, or if im doing a light melee at range to hit several targets. both senarios i consider acceptable
and from my experience, the points glitch is a one off thing. and fixes itself after a; respec, completing a match, promoting. not really a major issue here.
the character needs to be looked at but the fix is not really an easy one to decide.
#335
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 06:44
Drunkencelt
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Concussive arrow and Armor piercing arrow are the weakest grenade based powers in the game. With a full melee/power damage build designed to support it, it still falls short.
What other class do you have to Stack Power Mod 3, Strength mod 3, Juggernaut Shield/Hydraulic Gauntlets, and mods just to get a grenade to half suck.
I really want a no cain mine, all arrow build but it does not work.
What other class do you have to Stack Power Mod 3, Strength mod 3, Juggernaut Shield/Hydraulic Gauntlets, and mods just to get a grenade to half suck.
I really want a no cain mine, all arrow build but it does not work.
#336
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 06:49
Drunkencelt
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Armor piercing arrows needs more than 150% bonus.
The standard melee omnibow should be the only melee that has innate piercing as well. You are firing a piercing weapon.
The standard melee omnibow should be the only melee that has innate piercing as well. You are firing a piercing weapon.
#337
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 06:52
WaffleCrab
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ROBOTICSUPERMAN wrote...
WaffleCrab wrote...
ROBOTICSUPERMAN wrote...
The real issue with this character is that he's In a place where when he's at max melee, he's okish. The armour piercing arrows are good on the max melee build, concussive is ok too.
But buffing his melee to make it ok when specing out of max melee, this will mean that if you spec max melee you could start one shotting banshees on gold. Quite a predicament for bioware really.
no the problem is buggyness of the character and the fact is too damn squishy to spec for bow only, no matter how you look at it the character is poop if you spec him for arrows, and you would need to be the host to have any use for them.
you have just said no, then aggreed with me.
everyone is complaining because hes squishy because they speced full melee to get the full damage potential out of him. or theyre complaining because the spec shields to stop the squishyness and his melee doesnt do enough damage.
but if they increase the melee damage to suit the shield fitness users, then the melee fitness users will be OP.
if they increase his shields, then the melee fitness users will be happy but shield fitness users will be more tanky than a krogan on steroids
the issue with aiming at an enemy for 5 seconds is more likely to do with your connection(maybe platform too?), if im in a really laggy match it happens alot, else it rarely ever happens with a decent connection. this is not likly to be fixable by bioware.
ive never had an issue with the arrows not hitting the target, unless its a phantom dodge, or if im doing a light melee at range to hit several targets. both senarios i consider acceptable
and from my experience, the points glitch is a one off thing. and fixes itself after a; respec, completing a match, promoting. not really a major issue here.
the character needs to be looked at but the fix is not really an easy one to decide.
I actually have him specced for survivability and he still goes down faster than the other engineers.
just saying :S he is ludicrously weak. or then the enemies just dont want to see the mask, but instead zaeeds face, but i gues people at BW deep down knew how much this character would suck so they gave zaeeds clone a "paper bag"
#338
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 07:41
GroverA125
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Honestly Bioware, just increase his base shields to 600 and increase his base melee damage to make the bow actually usable on higher difficulties.
Sure, his base melee is seemingly high at the start, but even if it's the same grade as the Turian's melees, they AREN'T designed to be using their melee as their main weapon 80% of the time.
He should have base melee damage greater to that of a Krogan, as they are both melee-focused classes, except the Krogan gets a heavily-specialized fitness tree which not only grants him more DR (over the 40-50% he will get from Tech-Armor, Fortification, Barrier and more), but also further increases melee damage when he melee kills- to a greater extent than other classes, as well as the standard melee damage and shields increase. He also has greater benefits to stagger (which affects the Talon, as he must be exposed from cover to fire, and if he's hit, he stands there open for a second or so, in which time he can easily be killed).
As a melee class, he is shambolic, as his output is too low-base for gold-platinum, his shields are too low to justify the increased exposure his melee causes, his power sets amplify this melee, but nonetheless use the terrible damage as a base. While his power damage and melee modifiers are high, they aren't high enough to make these worth using.
On the topic of his bow powers, these are far too weak overall. These take up grenades, 3 concussive=1 frag, 2 AP=1 frag. As such, one would expect that they would deal about half/a third of the damage of most grenades we see a lot of in MP (Homing, Arc, Multi-frag and Cluster), with extra for the output being delayed and slower to utilize (time and increased DPS, as well as the ability to launch all you have at the enemy in seconds is what makes grenades so valuable), but this isn't the case. An AP round should deal half the damage of a Homing grenade overall on a target AS BONUS to the standard bow damage, as when you fire a homing grenade, while it flies you fire your weapon/powers at the target or other targets, you can't do that with a bow, you get one shot and no time to do anything while you wait, meaning that you are integrally-dependent on the output of that power, with your bow damage also added on to that bonus the arrows give you. Concussives need more power, as throwing targets is 50-50 at best thanks to rolling, projectile dodging/blocking, and the failure to properly launch enemies large distances (being thrown backwards and downwards rarely results in an enemy being thrown off the map, unless you hit a spawn, you will mostly hit that phantom into a block, and it will get up and finish killing you in a second or so). Again, three shots should be more effective than one grenade in output, and since this takes longer, it should have a higher output than what it currently has.
Seriously though, in comparison to everything else released in Reckoning, he's the bad egg. Remember that old film "Twins", where Arnold Swarzenegger played a man bred to be the perfect being, and Danny DeVito being all the leftovers? This guys all the leftovers. Everyone else got all the superpowers and all the love of Bioware's balance team, and the Talon's the refuse merged in a class and used as filler. Show him the love that you showed the Juggernaut, Warlord and EDI-Bot. Because currently he's been unloved and abandoned, and the only melee class that is so bad, a thread has had to have been made to explain how to use him (which says you have to use equipment. He's the only melee class that needs equipment to work on gold) and he has so much potential. He could be Hawkeye with an Omni-Bow, instead, he's a kid pretending to be a Red Indian with a plastic bow and suction-cup arrows.
Sure, his base melee is seemingly high at the start, but even if it's the same grade as the Turian's melees, they AREN'T designed to be using their melee as their main weapon 80% of the time.
He should have base melee damage greater to that of a Krogan, as they are both melee-focused classes, except the Krogan gets a heavily-specialized fitness tree which not only grants him more DR (over the 40-50% he will get from Tech-Armor, Fortification, Barrier and more), but also further increases melee damage when he melee kills- to a greater extent than other classes, as well as the standard melee damage and shields increase. He also has greater benefits to stagger (which affects the Talon, as he must be exposed from cover to fire, and if he's hit, he stands there open for a second or so, in which time he can easily be killed).
As a melee class, he is shambolic, as his output is too low-base for gold-platinum, his shields are too low to justify the increased exposure his melee causes, his power sets amplify this melee, but nonetheless use the terrible damage as a base. While his power damage and melee modifiers are high, they aren't high enough to make these worth using.
On the topic of his bow powers, these are far too weak overall. These take up grenades, 3 concussive=1 frag, 2 AP=1 frag. As such, one would expect that they would deal about half/a third of the damage of most grenades we see a lot of in MP (Homing, Arc, Multi-frag and Cluster), with extra for the output being delayed and slower to utilize (time and increased DPS, as well as the ability to launch all you have at the enemy in seconds is what makes grenades so valuable), but this isn't the case. An AP round should deal half the damage of a Homing grenade overall on a target AS BONUS to the standard bow damage, as when you fire a homing grenade, while it flies you fire your weapon/powers at the target or other targets, you can't do that with a bow, you get one shot and no time to do anything while you wait, meaning that you are integrally-dependent on the output of that power, with your bow damage also added on to that bonus the arrows give you. Concussives need more power, as throwing targets is 50-50 at best thanks to rolling, projectile dodging/blocking, and the failure to properly launch enemies large distances (being thrown backwards and downwards rarely results in an enemy being thrown off the map, unless you hit a spawn, you will mostly hit that phantom into a block, and it will get up and finish killing you in a second or so). Again, three shots should be more effective than one grenade in output, and since this takes longer, it should have a higher output than what it currently has.
Seriously though, in comparison to everything else released in Reckoning, he's the bad egg. Remember that old film "Twins", where Arnold Swarzenegger played a man bred to be the perfect being, and Danny DeVito being all the leftovers? This guys all the leftovers. Everyone else got all the superpowers and all the love of Bioware's balance team, and the Talon's the refuse merged in a class and used as filler. Show him the love that you showed the Juggernaut, Warlord and EDI-Bot. Because currently he's been unloved and abandoned, and the only melee class that is so bad, a thread has had to have been made to explain how to use him (which says you have to use equipment. He's the only melee class that needs equipment to work on gold) and he has so much potential. He could be Hawkeye with an Omni-Bow, instead, he's a kid pretending to be a Red Indian with a plastic bow and suction-cup arrows.
#339
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 08:00
JerZey CJ
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So, you want me to be able to fire 5 arrows, at the same target, while being exposed with only around 620 health and shields JUST to do the damage of incinerate(have you SEEN what the other Reckoning characters can do?)? He's "hard to handle" because he sucks and the melee is awkward to aim on consoles.AlexForward wrote...
The Cain mines are very powerful, but have limited utility. Arrows have low damage, but you can fire 5 arrows by using powers. Total damage is over 1000, which is similar to incinerate, for example, but without cooldown.LeinadSemrig wrote...
AlexForward wrote...
His powers are fine the way they are. The character is good. I try to play him, but always on the 4th place. Need more practice. Thanks for the tips anyway.
What base arrow damage does he have? I read that it is 100. Am I right? I want to make some calculations for a build.
His Cain mines are fine. His bow isn't. With the ammount of specialization and sacrifice the bow requires, it should be more like 1000 damage base at least. He is incredibly hard to use because of his skillset, but he pales in comparison of overall power unless you rely entirely on the trip mines. That's not balance, that's broken. The ammount of effort you have to put into him does not match his power output.
And who said it would be easy. He is hard to handle, just like Drell, or Phoenix characters. Lets wait for the balance changes, and then will decide what to do. I like this character, because I'm an Outsider (Outsider Mastery FTW)
And I still don't know the base arrow damage.
#340
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 08:58
AlexForward
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As i stated above, who said it would be easy. Why does everyone complain about his squishiness? He is a human character. All humans have low health and shields (except some N7 characters). Why don't you complain about human adept, or infiltrator? They are squishy too. On higher difficulties difference in 200 shields changes nothing. You will be killed very fast anyway.JerZeyCJ2 wrote...
So, you want me to be able to fire 5 arrows, at the same target, while being exposed with only around 620 health and shields JUST to do the damage of incinerate(have you SEEN what the other Reckoning characters can do?)? He's "hard to handle" because he sucks and the melee is awkward to aim on consoles.AlexForward wrote...
The Cain mines are very powerful, but have limited utility. Arrows have low damage, but you can fire 5 arrows by using powers. Total damage is over 1000, which is similar to incinerate, for example, but without cooldown.LeinadSemrig wrote...
AlexForward wrote...
His powers are fine the way they are. The character is good. I try to play him, but always on the 4th place. Need more practice. Thanks for the tips anyway.
What base arrow damage does he have? I read that it is 100. Am I right? I want to make some calculations for a build.
His Cain mines are fine. His bow isn't. With the ammount of specialization and sacrifice the bow requires, it should be more like 1000 damage base at least. He is incredibly hard to use because of his skillset, but he pales in comparison of overall power unless you rely entirely on the trip mines. That's not balance, that's broken. The ammount of effort you have to put into him does not match his power output.
And who said it would be easy. He is hard to handle, just like Drell, or Phoenix characters. Lets wait for the balance changes, and then will decide what to do. I like this character, because I'm an Outsider (Outsider Mastery FTW)
And I still don't know the base arrow damage.
He is agile, unlike Warlord and Juggernaut, don't rely on cooldown like Collector, Cabal and AIU. Thats why he is unique. Faster battery recharge and instant (without animation) arrow power activation will fix his disadvantage. Incinerate is a great power. Burns armor very fast.
I know what other Reckoning characters are capable of. That's great. I really like Collector and Juggernaut. But this doesn't explain why every character should be tanky. Most people complain about my favorite characters: Drell, Paladin, Phoenix Operatives, now Talon Mercenary. Lets just say you don't know how to handle them. Because this is a challenge, and that's why it is interesting.
I think this exchange is over.
Modifié par AlexForward, 02 mars 2013 - 09:03 .
#341
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 08:58
Werbal
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I've tried giving him a fair shake but he just doesn't work. Virtually the entire class is built around THE BOW but using the bow just gets you killed.
So what you're left with is a fairly squishy weapons platform and the useful-but-tricky Cain mines. No thanks.
Of course, he's the class I unlocked in my gift pack and none of the seven Reserves Packs I purchased this yielded any new characters. BioWare hates me this week.
So what you're left with is a fairly squishy weapons platform and the useful-but-tricky Cain mines. No thanks.
Of course, he's the class I unlocked in my gift pack and none of the seven Reserves Packs I purchased this yielded any new characters. BioWare hates me this week.
#342
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 08:59
AlexForward
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Delete it please. My fault.
Modifié par AlexForward, 02 mars 2013 - 09:01 .
#343
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 09:00
AlexForward
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The same thing. Quoted instead of editing.
Modifié par AlexForward, 02 mars 2013 - 09:01 .
#344
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 09:34
Guglio08
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His fitness tree needs buffs, that's about it. He needs extra health and shields to compensate for the lost ones because you are forced to take the melee damage evolutions. And the melee evos themselves need a boost as well, to make the Bow gold viable on its own.
#345
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 10:25
Battlepope190
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The Omni-Bow needs some work, but I've been using it with relative success on PS3 Gold games. My biggest gripe at this point is that his AP arrows seem incredibly useless against armor...which should not be the case.
#346
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 10:46
Either.Ardrey
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Since you mentioned it (Original Poster Eric), right now the Talon Engineer is only viable on Bronze, maybe Silver. It's too buggy at the moment. It's the first class I've encountered that doesn't allow for power hotkeys (PC. I set my Power 3 to middle mouse button, but it only activates when I hit the number 3 key, which is very awkward. I have a hard enough time pressing 6 for Ops Packs in the heat of battle, 3 is in an even more difficult spot). I tried out Concussive arrows first, and those weren't worth the grenades since it staggers mooks for a very short time, and that's about it. Concussive shot works better and you have an infinite number of those. Armor Piercing arrows would work well if I could hotkey it. I have yet to try the trip mines, but my buddy had a hard time getting them to work, so that one's seems buggy, too.
On a side note, could you do one of these for the Cabal Vanguard, because that's another one I tried that turned out to be near useless and not anywhere near as fun as it was made out to be. The Cabal was on of the ones I was most excited for, and now I'm super bummed out about it.
The Krogan Warlord is also a tricky one, because as it stands currently, it can't be effectively played using the mindset it was intended for. The health regen doesn't work well enough for it to actually be useful, and I've had hammer powers fail to kill level 2-3 mooks in one shot on Bronze and Silver (I always test characters on Bronze/Silver before considering taking them into Gold/Platinum), which is odd, because you'd think the hammer smash would do more damage than the krogan melee charge (which on the Warlord I found to be more reliable).
And please don't listen to the "nerf AIU it's OP" people. I don't care if some people find it too easy, the game is supposed to be fun, and the character is fun as it stands. If anything, the Talon Merc, Cabal Vanguard, and (in a minor way) Krogan Warlord should be buffed, because the former two are not fun at all to play, and the latter is visually satisfying but frustratingly under-performs reducing the amount of fun it is to play.
On a side note, could you do one of these for the Cabal Vanguard, because that's another one I tried that turned out to be near useless and not anywhere near as fun as it was made out to be. The Cabal was on of the ones I was most excited for, and now I'm super bummed out about it.
The Krogan Warlord is also a tricky one, because as it stands currently, it can't be effectively played using the mindset it was intended for. The health regen doesn't work well enough for it to actually be useful, and I've had hammer powers fail to kill level 2-3 mooks in one shot on Bronze and Silver (I always test characters on Bronze/Silver before considering taking them into Gold/Platinum), which is odd, because you'd think the hammer smash would do more damage than the krogan melee charge (which on the Warlord I found to be more reliable).
And please don't listen to the "nerf AIU it's OP" people. I don't care if some people find it too easy, the game is supposed to be fun, and the character is fun as it stands. If anything, the Talon Merc, Cabal Vanguard, and (in a minor way) Krogan Warlord should be buffed, because the former two are not fun at all to play, and the latter is visually satisfying but frustratingly under-performs reducing the amount of fun it is to play.
Modifié par Either.Ardrey, 02 mars 2013 - 10:46 .
#347
Posté 02 mars 2013 - 11:29
aruguren
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How about change the heavy melee for spread and light for focus?
Modifié par aruguren, 02 mars 2013 - 11:29 .
#348
Posté 03 mars 2013 - 12:10
Caterpie
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I specced out of concussive, but armor piercing didnt turn out as good as i thought, though the mines are epic
#349
Posté 03 mars 2013 - 12:15
Valiantheart99
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Kingston Atticus wrote...
You are aware that unlike ALL other grenade users HIS regenrate over time right? That is quite nice because it doesn't matter as much if others beat you to the ammo box for nades.
One grenade a minute (If you take the tier 6 skill) is not even worth the bother. It should be 1 minute without the skill and 30 seconds with it.
The classes damage is anemic and even worse the bow takes waaaaaay too long to target and fire.
Speed up the fire rate, damage bonus from bow powers and make Consussive arrow a 5 meter AOE.
Modifié par Valiantheart99, 03 mars 2013 - 12:16 .
#350
Posté 03 mars 2013 - 12:27
ajburges
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llandwynwyn wrote...
I swear edi does more melee dmg without passives than this guy.Dracian wrote...
The problem is not the omni bow, but the fact that it's buggy (reset controls)
Anyway, thanks for the tips
This.
This should have been responed to via Scruffy seconding.
Also I am another in favor of fixing the class.
