535 réponses à ce sujet

[Fuenf789]

...
What's your build?

1. Disclaimer

Spoiler

Ahem. uR trolling, LH, yes? I'm pretty reluctant, because this might have our lobbies filled with spammin engies. But hey, I thought, LineHolder has been around a while - mb give new entrants a chance to wake those content fat cats a bit. MeA is near anyway. I don't play him much anymore because he is an one arm bandit like the QE and Krogan BMt that takes the challenge away. I have mood variation builds.
So you can vary it a bit, but either invest fully in melee (his arrows are melee relate) and/or in the cain mines. Someone that are not investing in cainmines simply have not seen the killstreak damage spammed cain mines (6 deployed in rapid succession in the same spot can do).

HardcoreSalmon0, TheNightSlasher are definely higher authorities on the TE,anyway. Here my 5 cents :

2. glass cannons kill streak machines

Spoiler

Casual (S)troller

Spoiler

(ie quicker with enemies with barriers, spawn suppression/killstreak, good for hanging around and chatting, but helpful @ bellyups)
http://kalence.drupa...!34O56364!D.0D8(Cain @3450, Omni Bow Arrows (sum) =1504)

Frutti di mare

Spoiler

(ie when some BSN'er hangs around with a drell or a Quarian and you have to steal kill /kill mooks faster)
On this one the shotgun is only for decoration purposes, u can simply shoot in the air so that it doesn't rust the barrel. That holster is never intended to be used.

http://kalence.drupa...!34O56364!9.0D8(Cain @2850, Omni Bow Arrows (sum) =1603)

3. Play it Safe

Spoiler

The popular solo build (less arrow damage, enemy all rounder, high durability). Or when you have a guilty conscience and OCD to pull any trigger. useful also when you need to complete your revival challenge and just like to chill/hang around in gold valley without offending some AHF'er. The concussive arrows are supposed to help with shields. Also notice assault gear loadout, that's good when ur gnades boxes are lazy and the talon get s a +8% weapon boost.
Of course some use the Arc Pistol / Drill Rounds + Geth Scanner if you have synthetics etc.
http://kalence.drupa...!!34G52314!DGGD

4. Some well known video on its OP ness

Spoiler

So just how over OP this is : 9m:25s flat throuh Plat with 3TE and and Demolisher Eng.

 

[Oni Changas]

Talon is a beast, "glass cannon" or not. Weight matters not, you get about 9 grenades off the bat, Omni bow does heavy armor damage and/or ragdolls all the things with health, and I need not mention the potency of (M99)Cain mines.

[LineHolder]

1. Disclaimer

Spoiler

Ahem. uR trolling, LH, yes? I'm pretty reluctant, because this might have our lobbies filled with spammin engies. But hey, I thought, LineHolder has been around a while - mb give new entrants a chance to wake those content fat cats a bit. MeA is near anyway. I don't play him much anymore because he is an one arm bandit like the QE and Krogan BMt that takes the challenge away. I have mood variation builds.

So you can vary it a bit, but either invest fully in melee (his arrows are melee relate) and/or in the cain mines. Someone that are not investing in cainmines simply have not seen the killstreak damage spammed cain mines (6 deployed in rapid succession in the same spot can do).

HardcoreSalmon0, TheNightSlasher are definely higher authorities on the TE,anyway. Here my 5 cents :

 

2. glass cannons kill streak machines

Spoiler

Casual (S)troller

Spoiler

(ie quicker with enemies with barriers, spawn suppression/killstreak, good for hanging around and chatting, but helpful @ bellyups)
http://kalence.drupa...!34O56364!D.0D8(Cain @3450, Omni Bow Arrows (sum) =1504)

Frutti di mare

Spoiler

(ie when some BSN'er hangs around with a drell or a Quarian and you have to steal kill /kill mooks faster)
On this one the shotgun is only for decoration purposes, u can simply shoot in the air so that it doesn't rust the barrel. That holster is never intended to be used.

http://kalence.drupa...!34O56364!9.0D8(Cain @2850, Omni Bow Arrows (sum) =1603)

 

3. Play it Safe

Spoiler

The popular solo build (less arrow damage, enemy all rounder, high durability). Or when you have a guilty conscience and OCD to pull any trigger. useful also when you need to complete your revival challenge and just like to chill/hang around in gold valley without offending some AHF'er
Of course some use the Arc Pistol / Drill Rounds + Geth Scanner if you have synthetics etc.

http://kalence.drupa...!!34G52314!DGGD

4. Some well known video on its OP ness

Spoiler

So just how over OP this is : 9m:25s flat throuh Plat with 3TE and and Demolisher Eng.

[/spoiler

 

The first one is how I have specc'd it right now. Although I've always taken damage in both 4 and 6 levels of Cains. So you're using the first one to kill bosses and the second to concentrate on clusters of smaller enemies?

[Fuenf789]

The first one is how I have specc'd it right now. Although I've always taken damage in both 4 and 6 levels of Cains. So you're using the first one to kill bosses and the second to concentrate on clusters of smaller enemies?

The choice is determined at lobby time, based on the skill of our team.

1. casual stroller is for usual lobbies with 1 other good player + 2 recruits. Ie Leave some pieces for everybody to feel like they contributed. Assault loadout V is an option when the map gnades supply is low.

2. Tutti -Is when u have a lobby ful of hungry DAWG's and ur full game might not last 17 minutes (1.3minutes per wave). So damage fast full frontal offensive.


Radius is helpful to expand the radius to "just" cover the spawn radius (from 4 options it's the second smallest radius, but 2nd highest damage).
So positioning that cain to explode at the centre is important (ie aiming to miss an arm , swarmer on the boundary). It means u have to use one more cain to finish of the 3 maimed, or use an arrow for one mook coup de grace. I prefer that to 3 collector captains fully alive outside ur cain radius- but u r right that it's not the max blast damage.

Frutti(The second one) makes use of the fact that the omni blade melee of shotguns is 50% and pistols only 30%. Also the omni bow allows a wider auto aim than a talon. The talon is of course highly efficient in terms of dps. So when its only u with one bsn'er, on a small map, the talon will be quicker. On larger maps like vancouver, ur omni bow reach further than that near sighted talon. Thus,The shotgun build works better (for me) on larger maps. It also helps when carpet bombers like drell, quarians are competing with ur cains to shake the screen (enters auto aim) and there is overall carnage. With frutti u also gamble that a shield/ barrier stripper is on your team . Otherwise u have to load that heavy acolyte or talon. Mostly such tradeoff will throw u back to casual stroller loadout.

[LineHolder]

So, I tried out the 'Cain-spamming' build. This is what I went with,

 

http://kalence.drupa...!34O54343!D3GEC

 

(you end up with 14 grenades with this setup, not 12)

 

Went with Fuenf's advice on radius for rank 4 of Cains. The three points in Concussive add 2 extra cains/arrows and besides they are very useful for early waves (seeing a Marauder bumped off the map is special). AP arrows speccd to give more grenades but the armor debuff option in rank 5 is what was important. Does shooting an AP at an armored target have the Cain do more damage against it? That would mean light meleeing into a spawn/group and then shooting off a cain must do more damage, no?

 

Durability evos in Fitness tree. For newbie cain-spammers like me, this is vital. Locust for something to hold in the hand that has a power amplifier. I'm relying on the Locust and the Omni-bow to finish off low level mooks.

 

Writing this made me wonder, do armor debuff powers/ammo work while an enemy has shields/barriers?

[Fuenf789]

  Here are 3 considerations that came to mind on the points that you mentioned : i) Debuff, ii) indirect grilling, iii) buff/nerfs changes to game
 

... Concussive add 2 ... armor debuff option in rank 5 ...AP at an armored target have the Cain do more damage against it? That would mean light meleeing into a spawn/group and then shooting off a cain must do more damage, no?

We're probably getting into the personal playstyle part a little, so there are many ways to kill a cat. Some DAWGS can probably mention even more optimal ways.


i) Debuff
Yes that AP debuff gives you a 35% damage increase + 50% less armor resistance to weapons for 8s. Ideal for quasi mooks like marauders/dragoons, or mini bosses like ravagers, brute, scion. BUT For some enemies like the phantom or banshee this strategy might go belly up. since directly applying a power to their bubbles gets them into denial mode (like in real life). remember that light melee spreads those arrows, whilst heavy melee  concentrates those cones. I personally don't use light melee since I don't know where they're heading- so detonations becomes unpredicable.
 

Durability evos in Fitness tree. For newbie cain-spammers like me, this is vital. Locust for something to hold in the hand that has a power amplifier. I'm relying on the Locust and the Omni-bow to finish off low level mooks.

Yes - it's a catch 22 - to one shot mooks, with an AP Arrow Omnibow volley, though, you'll have to invest somewhat into melee. So the Talon Mercenary character penalizes you a lot if you had a full frontal style and so forces you to improve your RHA and corner shots. Since your fragile - You should never be visible for more than 1 or 2 seconds. And in that 2 seconds you're a thresher. That's why weapons on him that go chakaka (AR/SMG) make you painfully aware of his fragility. SG, Snipers or Pistol naturally force you to play into that quick and dirty mafia playstyle.

 

Writing this made me wonder, do armor debuff powers/ammo work while an enemy has shields/barriers?

ii) Indirect Grilling

Answer is yes & know (wordplay on "no" for a reason) : Yes. So with the melee loadout you can drop a marauder in 2 or 3 shots with the AP arrows alone (including their shields), with your loadout likely 4. That's why I prefer to run a shield stripper weapon with that. So with the acolyte you can do it "simultaneously". running with the acolyte charged, crossing a barrier auto releases the acolyte whilst you release your omni bow arrow.It feels like 1shot kills, although it technically isn't.
The debuff with a AP arrow is a projectile which very often raise that hand of denial on banshee or phantom bubble, which renders power usage useless. So u have to go with the indirect grilling technique - by aiming those cain on the ground next to them but never ever direct in da face. Same applies for spawn control, finding the sweet spot - centre of the spawn on the ground.

iii) buffs/nerfs to the TE
So for those that haven't played him a lot before the last updates the TE changes included more damage for the AP arrows and faster shooting times.

[LineHolder]

I wanted to get away from that charged-weapon-heavy-melee combo for a while because it was making things too easy and monotonous. If I want to finish things quickly, the large grenade pool helps. Finding choke points with clusters of enemies and/or finding spawns quickly is what I tried to do.

 

I only got the chance to try this out in one game so far (Reapers). Wiped out 3-4 spawns during the game. The best thing about this is to see the other player models looking here and there for an enemy to shoot at.

 

I'm not greedy though. I don't rely on cains all the time. Con/AP arrows with Locust headshots on mooks while there are no clusters of enemies around lets the others have fun too.

[Fuenf789]

... Wiped out 3-4 spawns during the game. The best thing about this is to see the other player models looking here and there for an enemy to shoot at.
 
I'm not greedy though. ...

Yep.

Trust me, replace "Wiped" with "Killstreaked" after a short time, above.

And that, LH, is the reason why I want to avoid playing this character. It's like driving on the Autobahn with a M5, before you know it you are pushing 270km and there are many more horses that just want to get out ... out ... out (add echo effect here).

[LineHolder]

Yeah, but he's a lifesaver in those PUGs where you want to falcon punch your squad off the map. Either my standards are going steadily up or I'm getting frustrated at the smallest of things in recent games.

 

- No consumables

 

- Missiles on wave 11

 

- not gelling

 

- playing alone on the other side of the map (and dying)

 

- not doing the objectives

 

You know, the usual. It's just that instead of being guilty of one of these things, these player(s) have started doing them all.

 

/rant

[junker1990]

Yeah, but he's a lifesaver in those PUGs where you want to falcon punch your squad off the map. Either my standards are going steadily up or I'm getting frustrated at the smallest of things in recent games.

 

- No consumables

 

- Missiles on wave 11

 

- not gelling

 

- playing alone on the other side of the map (and dying)

 

- not doing the objectives

 

You know, the usual. It's just that instead of being guilty of one of these things, these player(s) have started doing them all.

 

/rant

 

Well, "no consumables" and "playing alone on the other side of the map" (without dying of course) sounds reasonable. I'm not mad enough to play tightly with other "teammates". And to spend my precious consumables too.

[Fuenf789]

Yeah, but he's a lifesaver in those PUGs where you want to falcon punch your squad off the map. Either my standards are going steadily up or I'm getting frustrated at the smallest of things in recent games.

- No consumables

- Missiles on wave 11

- not gelling

- playing alone on the other side of the map (and dying)

- not doing the objectives

You know, the usual. It's just that instead of being guilty of one of these things, these player(s) have started doing them all.

/rant

yeah. but its still fresh blood- mind you - it is still amazing for a 4 year old game. I guess it's some of the wise SP'ers trying it out a bit because they don't want to end up in a me:a space where, just maybe, mp is not totally disconnected.

If one is not 100% sure then that would be a wise strategy (whilst waiting for me:a) instead of replaying the same SP (and repetitve action scenes) for the 969th time. And what do they have to loose anyway? There should be ample Mp players that can curry them with no effort.