535 réponses à ce sujet

[justinblac]

Vetrusio wrote...

Thanks for the info Eric,

I've come across some issues with the firing mechanic in that after I've let go of the melee button (after holding it to focus the shot) that the bow does not fire. I've had to tap the button again to make it fire, or hit one of the bow powers.

Is this an issue relating to the game mechanics or to ping?

I've had the same problem

[mcjihge2]

Does increasing the power damage increase the damage the omni bow does?

You mention using the omni blade because it adds multiplicative melee damage, would using the power magnification mod also add 1) multiplicative damaage and 2) bow damage?

EDIT
Ive currently set him up with a pistol with the melee stunner and the power magnifier. I  searched for a silver game, got dropped in a game in progress and found that i was dropping brute in 2 shots of the armour arrows, but then i finished the game and found it was a bronze game 

Modifié par mcjihge2, 28 février 2013 - 07:18 .

[Broganisity]

mcjihge2 wrote...

Does increasing the power damage increase the damage the omni bow does?

You mention using the omni blade because it adds multiplicative melee damage, would using the power magnification mod also add 1) multiplicative damaage and 2) bow damage?

power damage only increases the damage of the arrow powers, which then adds onto the omni-bow itself, which uses melee damage.

Modifié par Broganisity, 28 février 2013 - 07:17 .

[JLoco11]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

OneTrueShot wrote...

I think the problem isn't how 'good' he is, it's his viability in gold. I used that exact same build on Gold along with two other players whom I consider wholly competent, and the only conclusion we could come to for Gold and above is to spec full power damage and use the cain mines whilst using him as a dynamic weapons platform, only using the bow as a debuff instead of an offensive.

Yeah, I had on all melee gear and power amps along with the heavy blade. I'll try him again tonight on host to see if maybe that was part of the issue. I cannot remember who was host then?

Eric, would it be better to slap on the power amp and melee stunner on the pistol? The heavy blade gives 50% melee bonus versus 25% for the stunner but the power amp is an additional 30%.

Always maximize melee damage.

Do you find this odd, that this 1 character is so dependent upon 1 type of damage?

I mean, we have some limited characters in this game (Demolisher comes to mind with just grenades), but having to maximize our MELEE damage for 2 powers to work seems absurd.

I'm sure if these powers were amazing, the complaints on the forum would be different, but in trying to create a unique character, you seem to have created one of the most limited characters in the game.  I can't think of any class in the game that is solely dependent on 1 type of damage like this guy.


I believe a Salarian could have fixed this problem in more ways than one

[mcjihge2]

Broganisity wrote...

mcjihge2 wrote...

Does increasing the power damage increase the damage the omni bow does?

You mention using the omni blade because it adds multiplicative melee damage, would using the power magnification mod also add 1) multiplicative damaage and 2) bow damage?

power damage only increases the damage of the arrow powers, which then adds onto the omni-bow itself, which uses melee damage.

So that would be a yes to my question then.

I am interested if the magnifier mod does multiplicative or additional damage?

[Tybo]

mcjihge2 wrote...

Does increasing the power damage increase the damage the omni bow does?

You mention using the omni blade because it adds multiplicative melee damage, would using the power magnification mod also add 1) multiplicative damaage and 2) bow damage?

tyhw wrote...

 For reference, each bolt does 100 damage.  With rank 6 in AP Arrows, you can fire 5 bolts.  You can get a 150% modifier from your passive, plus 30% from a strength enhancer.  With a shotgun omniblade 5, you can do 420 damage per bolt, for  2100 damage.  On top of this, the AP Arrows will do damage.  A max damage spec gets 87.5% power damage, plus 50% from a Power Amp.  With a shotgun omniblade 5, this will do 356.25 damage per arrow, for 1781.25 damage.  

This works out to 3881.2 damage, enough to one shot centurions and marauders.  It will also get dragoons.

I do find the lock-on a bit troublesome, and cain mines are definitely better, but they aren't bad.

Expanding on this, the power magnification mod is known to be additive.  The (un-tested, but very likely) result would be that the power magnification mod would simply add to the AP Arrow damage.  You would then get:
100*(1+.875+.5+.3)*1.5=401.25 damage per AP Arrow, for 2006.25 total damage from AP Arrows.  

This gives you 4106.25 total damage from an AP Arrow shot.

If you take the shred evolution, you will add 1003.125 damage over 5 seconds.  This is enough to kill a gold phantom.  If you take the Armor piercing evolution, your damage to armor will jump from 5109.375 to 6162.65.

However, most of this is theory crafting.  The main possibility which could screw up these calcuations is if the Talon's omni-bow gets a lowered modifier against armor (75% is common for omni-blade melees).  If this is true, your armor damage will decrease to 4584.38 with shred or 5637.33 with armor damage.

EDIT:  Just realized that you can't have a power magnifier and a shotgun omni-blade on at the same time.  D'oh!  

Always use a shotgun with an omniblade if you want to use the arrows on this guy.  Nothing beats 50% multiplicative damage.

Modifié par tyhw, 28 février 2013 - 07:31 .

[ChaseSanchez]

tyhw wrote...

 For reference, each bolt does 100 damage.  With rank 6 in AP Arrows, you can fire 5 bolts.  You can get a 150% modifier from your passive, plus 30% from a strength enhancer.  With a shotgun omniblade 5, you can do 420 damage per bolt, for  2100 damage.  On top of this, the AP Arrows will do damage.  A max damage spec gets 87.5% power damage, plus 50% from a Power Amp.  With a shotgun omniblade 5, this will do 356.25 damage per arrow, for 1781.25 damage.  

This works out to 3881.2 damage, enough to one shot centurions and marauders.  It will also get dragoons.

I do find the lock-on a bit troublesome, and cain mines are definitely better, but they aren't bad.

The maths are refreshing. Thanks for that info tyhw!

[BlackDahlia424]

Pretty much everything I've had problems with has been mentioned.

- Awkward controls on XBox. Trying to shoot with B, while maneuvering and aiming.
- Terribly squishy. For the damage to be even silver viable, you need to sacrifice all health evos. Especially since you need to be out of cover for several seconds to aim.
- Arrows miss way too much. They need to have their projectile speed VASTLY increased. A nemesis can dodge it simply by walking - that's BS.
- Damage. It's so subpar, there's literally no point in ever using the bow in the first place. And I only tried this on SILVER. And I tried all the suggestions in the OP.
- Arrows not firing after releasing button.

Suggestions:
- Increase bow damage, seriously by 100% at least. Not even kidding.
- Award DR while focusing your bow.
- Increase projectile speed.

And this one is a bit harder, but the controls are an abomination and need to be fixed. I think it would be nice if you could press the power button to load the arrows, and then use the power buttons to shoot them (and hold them to focus). Using the melee button in this way requires me to contort my hand into unnatural positions to get it to work.

Modifié par BlackDahlia424, 28 février 2013 - 07:22 .

[Dee V3]

Okay, just tried him on Gold with every possible Melee combination I can think of to maximize damage output from Omni-Bow. Vs Reapers:

Husk: 1 Shot
Cannibal: 1 to 2 shots? Weird. 1 Shot 100% with Armor piercing
Marauders: 3 to 4 shots. 2 Shots 100% with Armor piercing
Ravagers: 2 shots with Armor piercing
Brutes: 4 to 5 shots with Armor piercing
Banshee: Don't bother.

What I take from using this character, his niche is obviously his Omni-Bow, but having to sacrifice his health and shield to get any use out of it is really tough. Now, I play a 500/500 AH and I run her fine on platinum, but this class requires you to be out in the open to get any clean shot with the Omni-Bow. Nonetheless, it seems with the full melee build, he's completely viable on gold. I'm going to keep trying him out, I feel if you can maximize the Bow in combination with his Mines, he'll be one devastating character.

[Auras_Mendalla]

OneTrueShot wrote...

I think the problem isn't how 'good' he is, it's his viability in gold. I used that exact same build on Gold along with two other players whom I consider wholly competent, and the only conclusion we could come to for Gold and above is to spec full power damage and use the cain mines whilst using him as a dynamic weapons platform, only using the bow as a debuff instead of an offensive.

I used him much the same way on Platinum and outscored three Juggys. Of course It being my first time out with him I was a bit iffy on the bow mechanics, so I mostly stuck to the mines (oh those glorious mines!) and my trusty Wraith. I think all of these new kits have high potential in the right hands, but he's definitely the dark horse of the lot.

[Bob Garbage]

Anyone else getting stuck in the heavy bow animation every several shots or so? I find it keeps happening, and the Merc just ends up with his ass hanging out getting pulverized unless I abandon trying to hit anything and run away, all the while he's still stuck in the heavy bow animation.

[brit316]

Its clearly bugged on 360

[3XT3RM1N4TUS]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

OneTrueShot wrote...

I think the problem isn't how 'good' he is, it's his viability in gold. I used that exact same build on Gold along with two other players whom I consider wholly competent, and the only conclusion we could come to for Gold and above is to spec full power damage and use the cain mines whilst using him as a dynamic weapons platform, only using the bow as a debuff instead of an offensive.

Yeah, I had on all melee gear and power amps along with the heavy blade. I'll try him again tonight on host to see if maybe that was part of the issue. I cannot remember who was host then?

Eric, would it be better to slap on the power amp and melee stunner on the pistol? The heavy blade gives 50% melee bonus versus 25% for the stunner but the power amp is an additional 30%.

Always maximize melee damage.

... to kill a silver cannibal with 2 fully charged shots...

[Distilled Poison]

The issue with the Talon Merc is:

1: He absolutely, 100% requires a specific build to make any use out of 2/3 of his powerset on gold and platinum. I'd guess on silver, too. His defining characteristic is useless otherwise. No other class has this issue. The Shadow and Demolisher are the most closely related, but do are nowhere near as limited.
2: A weapons platform trip mine focused Talon Merc completely outshines an omnibow Talon Merc. It is strictly superior.
3: Even ignoring that, you have to deal with lousy, working as intended™ ME3 controls, enemies that easily dodge your shots, lag affecting hit rate even further, and the difficulty of play for an omnibow Talon Merc.

Simply put, you have to be masochistic to choose an omnibow Talon Merc over a trip mine Talon Merc.

[Bolo Xia]

is not being able to use thermal clips an intended weakness or a bug?

demolisher and other heavy grenade relying character can use thermal clips, so why cant this guy?

also PS3 people are saying they can use thermals, but everyone on PC i run into says it isnt available to them.

there is more to using thermals than for grenade supply, like using to buff our weapons for 10 secs and ammo resupply.

maybe if you guys made the grenade regen faster, maybe it would make sense, but right now im sticking with weapons that recharge ammo on their own because this guy is so squishy its not always viable to get to an ammo box; even just for ammo.

dont mean to sound like complaining, but i just dont see why it is unavailable.

[Oseye]

I'm still skeptical, the "lock on" is quite a killer when your enemy goes behind cover and you can't look away. Then your bolts just auto fire into the wall / cover and do nothing. Makes me a sad panda every time.

Best use I have found for the omni-bow is to just keep the concussive arrows loaded and just shoot mines everywhere. Only use the arrows when a mook gets all up in your grill with just a tap of the melee button for safety. Maxing durability in fitness and power damage of course.

[Dee V3]

Oseye wrote...

I'm still skeptical, the "lock on" is quite a killer when your enemy goes behind cover and you can't look away. Then your bolts just auto fire into the wall / cover and do nothing. Makes me a sad panda every time.

Best use I have found for the omni-bow is to just keep the concussive arrows loaded and just shoot mines everywhere. Only use the arrows when a mook gets all up in your grill with just a tap of the melee button for safety. Maxing durability in fitness and power damage of course.

You can roll cancel the charge.

[Oseye]

Dee V3 wrote...

Oseye wrote...

I'm still skeptical, the "lock on" is quite a killer when your enemy goes behind cover and you can't look away. Then your bolts just auto fire into the wall / cover and do nothing. Makes me a sad panda every time.

Best use I have found for the omni-bow is to just keep the concussive arrows loaded and just shoot mines everywhere. Only use the arrows when a mook gets all up in your grill with just a tap of the melee button for safety. Maxing durability in fitness and power damage of course.

You can roll cancel the charge.

Feels awkward to tap A while holding B down. But yeah, I never remember to do that.

[Gornok]

what's the sense of using this power when this power does not go anywhere towards the melee damage portion of combat mastery?

We create melee players where both their light and heavy melee have little damage in the first place, but then on top of that, are unable to gain any advancement of these same tactics?

The same argument go towards the shadow, which again gains from melee with its shadow strike and also has its own challenge in which it has use, but again, doesn't goes towards completing the melee damage portion of the achievement.

[Broganisity]

Really, doing max stats everything for the bow to be useful, I can only really one shot assault troopers if I use the Armor-Piercing Arrows, but I can't do the same with most other humanoids (dragoons were left with one bar before they murdered me tenfold.). In the amount of time it took to buff the arrows to full power to one hit those enemies, I found just shooting them in the face with an executioner blast to be just as effective, if not moreso considering the speed(and reload speed) and lack of glitches.

The fact that we 'need' all these things for the bow to be that effective is strange, all things considered.

The closest character we have to the same concept is the Krogan Warlord, who buffs his attack (the hammer) with abilities (Electric/biotic hammer). But even without those abilities (and without rage even) his hammer is still rather effective...plus you know, krogan warlord has all that defense even without health and shield fitness.

Cain Mine Abuse and Weapons Platform Mercenary is considerably superior to Bowman Mercenary.

EDIT: Also I found having armor piercing ammo specced into gets rid of the ability to use thermal packs, whereas it doesn't without it. Odd. :U

EDIT2: I still think that a light melee to push back enemies and a powerful, single shot heavy melee was the best bet.

EDIT3: Seriously, avenger is more fun to use on this guy. :U

Modifié par Broganisity, 28 février 2013 - 07:50 .

[TheGoda]

Eric I want to thank you, just went into a gold and crushed geth primes.

[JimmyBazooka]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Vetrusio wrote...

Thanks for the info Eric,

I've come across some issues with the firing mechanic in that after I've let go of the melee button (after holding it to focus the shot) that the bow does not fire. I've had to tap the button again to make it fire, or hit one of the bow powers.

Is this an issue relating to the game mechanics or to ping?

We believe this is due to lag.

I've had almost the same issue, except after holding, locking and releasing the button, about 2-3 seconds pass before the bow will shoot. All this time you can't do anything except for walking. And the camera all this time stays focused on the target. I've got killed so many times because of this that I just lost all hope for this character. Btw, it was off-host, but the game wasn't laggy.

Modifié par JimmyBazooka, 28 février 2013 - 07:51 .

[solidprice]

Distilled Poison wrote...

The issue with the Talon Merc is:

1: He absolutely, 100% requires a specific build to make any use out of 2/3 of his powerset on gold and platinum. I'd guess on silver, too. His defining characteristic is useless otherwise. No other class has this issue. The Shadow and Demolisher are the most closely related, but do are nowhere near as limited.
2: A weapons platform trip mine focused Talon Merc completely outshines an omnibow Talon Merc. It is strictly superior.
3: Even ignoring that, you have to deal with lousy, working as intended™ ME3 controls, enemies that easily dodge your shots, lag affecting hit rate even further, and the difficulty of play for an omnibow Talon Merc.

Simply put, you have to be masochistic to choose an omnibow Talon Merc over a trip mine Talon Merc.

Bolo Xia wrote...

is not being able to use thermal clips an intended weakness or a bug?

demolisher and other heavy grenade relying character can use thermal clips, so why cant this guy?

also PS3 people are saying they can use thermals, but everyone on PC i run into says it isnt available to them.

there is more to using thermals than for grenade supply, like using to buff our weapons for 10 secs and ammo resupply.

maybe
if you guys made the grenade regen faster, maybe it would make sense,
but right now im sticking with weapons that recharge ammo on their own
because this guy is so squishy its not always viable to get to an ammo
box; even just for ammo.

dont mean to sound like complaining, but i just dont see why it is unavailable.

these 2.^^^^^

Fun class but needs a buff or 2.

[NuclearTech76]

I'll try it but I'm kind of skeptical since I've already tried this once off host.

Eric. You guys really need to unbind the grenade usage on the arrow powers. You use a nade that could be used for way more useful Cain mines. Also if you want to swap arrow powers you're forced to use a nade. It makes no sense. The guy isn't going to be more OP if you make it CD dependent to swap powers or since he is so screwed up anyways just make the arrow powers toggle without CD.

[mj_hawke]

3XT3RM1N4TUS wrote...

1) Buff it's damage
2) Remove enemy's ability to dodge arrows
3) Fix the bugs

Yeah in theory, no1 should be able to dodge arrows