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Talon Engineer Omni-Bow Tips


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#151
Mondhase

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Hardcoresalmon wrote...

The targetting system is the worst thing because you can't disable it and free aim. So I go through the whole game targeting swarmers and enemies on the other side of walls.

 

This, absolutely. I just unlocked him and played my first game with him (bronze) and it was aweful. I would use the heavy melee focus, but by the time the lines has zoomed in, my target has vanished behind a wall, or I'm suddenly focused on a seeker swarm next to the trooper I was aiming for. I always thought there was no auto-aim function on pc, why add one?

#152
LeinadSemrig

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So let's see, in order to use the bow I have to.

1) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon slots as a shotgun
2) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon mods as an omni-blade
3) Equip as many gear slots as possible for melee boosts
4) Spec completely out of survivability in favor of bow damage
5) Spec completely out of weapon damage in favor of power damage
6) Constantly use grenades to boost my arrows
7) Stand at least partway exposed to lock on with my shots since aiming on consoles is pretty much impossible.

If I do all of this my bow will at last become effective... Here's the thing, I can't think of a single kit that requires this level of specialization in order to use it's primary abilities effectively. No survivability, no weapon boosts, extremely limited load out options. The payoff for doing this should be enormous, With these kinds of requirements, I would expect this kit to literally have the single highest damage output in the game. It's nowhere even close to that. There needs to be significant boosts to this kit before a bow build would even seem remotely appealing.

#153
WaffleCrab

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It isnt so much that people dont know how to make it work, but there are a couple of nasty surprises going in for them when they are indeed building it for the bow damage;

-They are building an engineer, an already squishy one at it, to use an excessively slow and sometimes unpredictable "melee" attack... which consumes grenades if you want to be able to add to the power.
-Not only that, if you want to use your powers(bow and cain) often, you need to be married to an ammo box, or bring heavy firepower for times when you dont have grenades while your grenades regenerate slowly, but oh wait, the heavier the weapon, the slower the regen :S
-The bow is often awfully in accurate even with the focus, and you need to be the host, and to shoot from within 15 meters(range where every single enemy will instantly rape you since you are a squishy engy) which is a little bit too hazardous given how long you need to stick out your head, to use something that is affected by latence, rather heavily.
-You are allowed to have only 3 cain mines out... WTF! why. they consume our grenades! and if you miss place one of them, with oh so nice geometry of the map buildings, you end up wasting more nades than just 1, because you mey need to/want to rebuild your trap, and since the old ones blow up when you lay more than 3....

Below, a re-enactment of what the Talon merc is doing 70% of the time between ammo boxes.
Image IPB

Modifié par WaffleCrab, 28 février 2013 - 10:33 .


#154
jakenou

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^ OMGLULZ!

#155
WaffleCrab

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Also, i would like to suggest a solution to making it atleast usable, without increasing its damage. increase base hp and shields by 200. Decrease time to shoot fully focused bolts by 33% or more.

#156
Nogs28

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Dee V3 wrote...

Nogs28 wrote...

 Found a bug with hazard reactor and the trip mines.  They will keep the door closed when you vent the reactor.  Preventing you from being able to get inside and blocking shots.  Enemies will still be able to get in and out and fire at you.
http://cloud-2.steam...869700AA383CF3/


Lock your teammates in there.



Of course I did!

#157
Zenxarllsnim

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OneTrueShot wrote...

I think the problem isn't how 'good' he is, it's his viability in gold. I used that exact same build on Gold along with two other players whom I consider wholly competent, and the only conclusion we could come to for Gold and above is to spec full power damage and use the cain mines whilst using him as a dynamic weapons platform, only using the bow as a debuff instead of an offensive.


/\\ Agreed. Disregarding all the targetting bs (which is definitely there) I play exclusively gold and above. Should try it on platinum, it's laughable. It takes 7-8 volleys to kill a centurion. It definitely needs more damage, if I can have it specced to 200% extra damageish, and it still takes 10x longer to kill a normal centurion than a predator does. Perhaps you guys should test this stuff on gold/platinum before releasing it. :)

#158
BlackbirdSR-71C

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I keep having an issue on every third or so shot where after I release the button he keeps the bow drawn until the maximum draw time. Can only be cancelled by dodging. Really makes this kit unplayable for me.

#159
Balz to the Wall

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I just tried out Eric's suggestions on silver and while damage is better, the aiming system is extremely awkward with a controller. I feel a mouse and keyboard would be much better but i've put in too much time to get the PC version. Bottom line is Silver no higher.

#160
deanzig

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Quick question to any with the answer: Does a shotgun w/ omniblade and an AR w/ omni stack?

#161
joechung

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This kit sucks. I don't intend to ever play it again after finishing its 10 extractions for the banner.

My advice is to get rid of the omni-bow, give back his ability to melee, give him Concussion Shot and Carnage instead of his omni-bow powers, fix the Cain Trip Mine so that its beam is perpendicular and never parallel to the wall, and fix the Ammo Kit missing keybinding bug.

This kit feels like an unfinished kit which you failed to get ready in time for the Crysis 3 release for some sort of ill-conceived cross-game promotion so, rather than completely throw it away, you included it as part of DLC.

Modifié par joechung, 28 février 2013 - 11:16 .


#162
khankar

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JLoco11 wrote...

While the explanation is appreciated... at some point during his development, did you ever think "If a character needs an explanation on how to use them, maybe this isn't the best idea".

Because not everyone comes to this forum. Most want to use a power and go about their business.


Couldn't agree more.

I think this is another case of developers have an idea that sounds good on paper but not so good once implemented.

Talon appears to have a very steep learning curve and frankly, most of the other kits are easier to use so why use him?

#163
MetalDeggial

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Lolwat, why would you use his bow to damage anything? Right now, the best advice would be to not use this guy at all due to how buggy he is (resets controls on PC, unable to do cover grabs, massive bow lag off-host and who knows what else) or max his fitness and use Concussive Arrows with Chill effect to debuff and knock down enemies and just use your Harrier X to kill stuff, ocassionally spamming Cains (also a terrible power) in panic moments.

I tried to do what is described here and I failed miserably simply because the bow is too damn slow and does pittiful damage anyway (definitely nowhere near as cool sounding, fast or powerful as depicted in the trailer.) The Shock evo in Concussive Arrows is a bad joke as well, since bosses won't get paralyzed and minions will fly away, which shows that very little thought and playtest time was put behind this lame kit. And what makes it worse, is that the developers felt like making this thread to justify his inclusion, when he's in severe need of attention and requires patching and mad buffs. And when I say mad, I mean MAD BUFFS.

Also, I'm not sure his fitness or shield boosting equipment works with him. Even with Cyclonic IV and full fitness, a single minion will shield-gate me in less than 1 second.

Modifié par MetalDeggial, 28 février 2013 - 11:51 .


#164
ROBOTICSUPERMAN

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deanzig wrote...

Quick question to any with the answer: Does a shotgun w/ omniblade and an AR w/ omni stack?


dont think they do, it uses which ever one is currently in your hands to affect the damage. and ignores the one on your back

#165
Zenxarllsnim

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deanzig wrote...

Quick question to any with the answer: Does a shotgun w/ omniblade and an AR w/ omni stack?


Not in the way you want. You get the bonus for the weapon equiped. If you have an ar with +melee damage on, and you're using your pistol, your melee damage bonus isn't being used.

#166
wes60620

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eddieoctane wrote...

azoth1267 wrote...

wes60620 wrote...

Megakoresh wrote...

Fixing the bugs on him so he is actually playable would be nice first and foremost.


A person cant play a new kit or master its abilities instantly and all of a sudden its bugged..... ya gotta love it.:o

to be fair, there are a few bugs with the talon atm... like the key binding thing and the skill point issue


Also, the bow not firing when you let go of the button, sometimes for several seconds.

You know what I "love"? How some people stills eem to have such blind faith in an EA owned company that they believe everythign is perfect from day one.


That sounds like hardware or lag issues.

What amuses me is that no matter what Bioware does to enhance the longevity of ME3, there are folks who will never be satisfied of its efforts. Yes EA owns Bioware.....Get over it.  They didn't have to produce anything past the last DLC or give any of it away for free.  EA & Bioware hasn't batted 100% in my book also but I'm grateful for all what was done since the Ext Cut.

Eric didn't have to post these tips either. 

#167
Commander_Rafael

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LeinadSemrig wrote...

So let's see, in order to use the bow I have to.

1) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon slots as a shotgun
2) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon mods as an omni-blade
3) Equip as many gear slots as possible for melee boosts
4) Spec completely out of survivability in favor of bow damage
5) Spec completely out of weapon damage in favor of power damage
6) Constantly use grenades to boost my arrows
7) Stand at least partway exposed to lock on with my shots since aiming on consoles is pretty much impossible.

If I do all of this my bow will at last become effective... Here's the thing, I can't think of a single kit that requires this level of specialization in order to use it's primary abilities effectively. No survivability, no weapon boosts, extremely limited load out options. The payoff for doing this should be enormous, With these kinds of requirements, I would expect this kit to literally have the single highest damage output in the game. It's nowhere even close to that. There needs to be significant boosts to this kit before a bow build would even seem remotely appealing.


This pretty much.

And sugesting to use consumables to make it "good" ain't nice. The game has a lot of equipment able to increase melee damage, but it's problematic to balance a character having in mind it's max effectivness with consumables when you have a random store and can't afford needing consumables to play a kit.

#168
alhamel94

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idk i find concussive to be more useful than ap

#169
Elotana

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LeinadSemrig wrote...

So let's see, in order to use the bow I have to.

1) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon slots as a shotgun
2) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon mods as an omni-blade
3) Equip as many gear slots as possible for melee boosts
4) Spec completely out of survivability in favor of bow damage
5) Spec completely out of weapon damage in favor of power damage
6) Constantly use grenades to boost my arrows
7) Stand at least partway exposed to lock on with my shots since aiming on consoles is pretty much impossible.

If I do all of this my bow will at last become effective... Here's the thing, I can't think of a single kit that requires this level of specialization in order to use it's primary abilities effectively. No survivability, no weapon boosts, extremely limited load out options. The payoff for doing this should be enormous, With these kinds of requirements, I would expect this kit to literally have the single highest damage output in the game. It's nowhere even close to that. There needs to be significant boosts to this kit before a bow build would even seem remotely appealing.

Nailed it!

#170
Big Jack Shepard

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I followed all of your advice, Eric.

I just took this guy on a bronze solo. I am too ashamed to say how many consumables I used, and for how long it took me to extract.

This guy needs a big buff.

#171
Elotana

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I want to see the devs extract from a Platinum game with nothing but Talons. I've always thought this "we play ALL difficulty levels" thing was bull**** based on how bad the Bioware people I've seen in the wild are and this "guide" clinches it.
If a single dev cleared Plat with this character in his current state I'll eat a hat. :P

#172
ClockworkSpectre

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Many of us saw the livestream and tried all of these suggestions already. The Talon Merc still sucks, and it is not just the crap damage from all but the trip mine. The recovery time after using heavy melee is far to long, leaving a squishy class incredibly vulnerable for to long. The arrows seem to miss often. The class is bugged (at least on PC). It is a incredibly sub par class. The vanilla human engineer blows this guy out of the water by far.

Modifié par ClockworkSpectre, 01 mars 2013 - 12:58 .


#173
LorelynF

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Thanks for the tips, Eric. :happy:

#174
LeinadSemrig

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Elotana wrote...

LeinadSemrig wrote...

So let's see, in order to use the bow I have to.

1) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon slots as a shotgun
2) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon mods as an omni-blade
3) Equip as many gear slots as possible for melee boosts
4) Spec completely out of survivability in favor of bow damage
5) Spec completely out of weapon damage in favor of power damage
6) Constantly use grenades to boost my arrows
7) Stand at least partway exposed to lock on with my shots since aiming on consoles is pretty much impossible.

If I do all of this my bow will at last become effective... Here's the thing, I can't think of a single kit that requires this level of specialization in order to use it's primary abilities effectively. No survivability, no weapon boosts, extremely limited load out options. The payoff for doing this should be enormous, With these kinds of requirements, I would expect this kit to literally have the single highest damage output in the game. It's nowhere even close to that. There needs to be significant boosts to this kit before a bow build would even seem remotely appealing.

Nailed it!


TBH I really like the theory of this guy.  An extremely niche character is not automatically bad.  I just want to see some payoff for mastering the niche other than "I rock so hard, I can solo Plat with the Talon!"  Please, no e-peen here, lets get the whole risk-reward model back into full swing on this guy.  I want to see a team of Talons do this:

Modifié par LeinadSemrig, 01 mars 2013 - 01:09 .


#175
Kinom001

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Awesome. Thanks for the tips and, as a side note, he's definitely one of my favorite characters to play even though I'm still working the wrinkles out.

Modifié par Kinom001, 01 mars 2013 - 01:11 .