535 réponses à ce sujet

[Jarno Mikkola]

Dracian wrote...
The problem is not the omni bow, but the fact that it's buggy (reset controls)

Yeah, indeed on PC, it's horrible... of course, the consoles are uneffected...

[LeinadSemrig]

Jarno Mikkola wrote...

Dracian wrote...
The problem is not the omni bow, but the fact that it's buggy (reset controls)

Yeah, indeed on PC, it's horrible... of course, the consoles are uneffected...

At least PC can aim worth a large-barricade-holding-back-massive-quantities-of-water.  I'm stuck with this woefully inadequate little stick...

inb4that'swhatshesaid.

[Cohen le Barbare]

I had a feeling this character was consumable hungry, but not this much. His bow should be able to one-shot mooks (canibal for example) on silver without using a piercing arrow. The shadow can.

ATM he's more of a gimped character than a niche one. I'm sure this will change in the future, but he's a bit lackluster as it stands.

But the main problem with him is that he screws up my key bindings each time I play him. That's my main beef.

Great jobs on the various kits though, they each are quite unique

[Apl_Juice]

Make the Arrows fly faster. I can't hit a mobile target with the full volley

[BleedingUranium]

Yes, OHKing mooks without arrow types or consumable gear is a must. That said, this is a great guide Eric, luckily it's exactly how I have him spec'd already.

[Constant Motion]

Not rebuilt my character yet, so I don't know how effective the tips are, but I kind of bloody love this thread. Loads of effort, loads of info, a proper labour of love. Cheers a billion for this, Eric! Very illuminating, and it answers some questions a lot of us were asking. Can't wait to have a go.

[Ravenmyste]

eric the bow needs a buff he so squishy that you can NOT take mixture melee evolution he need the health & sheilds buff.
I tried pure melee build on omni bow ap full and he dies while youre taking a shot soon as you try to get the laser dot on mook, then i tried full biotic build but this time only died because a mook did a dance around my tripwire some how he walked thru the beam meleed me while trying to kill brother mook .

[Ant_Ghoman]

I like this character (specially the cain trip mine that can guard my flank) but for the sake of good play i must change the keyboard keybinding from 5-8 to left shift, alt, tab and V, and every Gold and Plat match make me rushing Option>Keybinding Scrolldown 3x and change it ASAP then esc 2x after wave 1 complete.

[Aytanay]

Thank you, I was wondering about some things that you answered in this thread.
I would only sugest that when the grab hand is avaiable that he would grab instead of shooting, but it is great to fire arrows from cover.

[Wookie_Smuggler]

Elotana wrote...

LeinadSemrig wrote...

So let's see, in order to use the bow I have to.

1) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon slots as a shotgun
2) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon mods as an omni-blade
3) Equip as many gear slots as possible for melee boosts
4) Spec completely out of survivability in favor of bow damage
5) Spec completely out of weapon damage in favor of power damage
6) Constantly use grenades to boost my arrows
7) Stand at least partway exposed to lock on with my shots since aiming on consoles is pretty much impossible.

If I do all of this my bow will at last become effective... Here's the thing, I can't think of a single kit that requires this level of specialization in order to use it's primary abilities effectively. No survivability, no weapon boosts, extremely limited load out options. The payoff for doing this should be enormous, With these kinds of requirements, I would expect this kit to literally have the single highest damage output in the game. It's nowhere even close to that. There needs to be significant boosts to this kit before a bow build would even seem remotely appealing.

Nailed it!

I agree wholeheartedly

[jarrattgray]

Why does the Omni bow damage not count to Combat Mastery melee damage?

[CerberusNegro]

Remove the arrows ability to use up grenades and give them a recharge speed.
Me personally Cain mine all the way

[Tang Tsu]

LeinadSemrig wrote...

So let's see, in order to use the bow I have to.

1) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon slots as a shotgun
2) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon mods as an omni-blade
3) Equip as many gear slots as possible for melee boosts
4) Spec completely out of survivability in favor of bow damage
5) Spec completely out of weapon damage in favor of power damage
6) Constantly use grenades to boost my arrows
7) Stand at least partway exposed to lock on with my shots since aiming on consoles is pretty much impossible.

If I do all of this my bow will at last become effective... Here's the thing, I can't think of a single kit that requires this level of specialization in order to use it's primary abilities effectively. No survivability, no weapon boosts, extremely limited load out options. The payoff for doing this should be enormous, With these kinds of requirements, I would expect this kit to literally have the single highest damage output in the game. It's nowhere even close to that. There needs to be significant boosts to this kit before a bow build would even seem remotely appealing.

This.  I just played witht he OP recommended spec and it was terrible.    The damage itself isn't horrible but requires way to much equipment / mods to be any kind of effective.

The two biggest problems are:
1.  The insane squishiness required in order to make the bow useful.  Being forced to stand out of cover while waiting for the bow to charge is suicide in many cases and this kit has ZERO defensive options.  Every other squishy I can think of has SOMETHING, even if its just a stagger.  This character is forced to be exposed to damage with a bare minimum of survivability.

2.  The TERRIBLE tracking of the bow (playing on 360).  My 5 AP arrow cluster of doom just completely annihilated a swarmer.  <_< Numerous times within the same round my bow would stick and simply not fire.  Arrows often miss and there is no way of canceling a shot if the target dies, moves behind cover, etc.

My suggestion that would fix a lot of this... make the Omni bow function like Ballistic Blades or Nightshade Blades.  Let it fire instantly, button tap with a slight delay before firing like BB, on the move and either fire in a tight cone or simply instant target tracking.  This would have to be the 'light melee'  to be used with button taps, and heavy melee could be any number of things ('shaped charge' knockback like the Geth Jugg maybe?).  That way the character could utilize soft cover, which would provide synergy with his trip mines.  Survivability goes up, tracking is less of an issue, and class remains balanced.

[Kuato Livezz]

Its hard to please everyone. Make this class more powerful, make this class less powerful. A whole suite of characters to satisfy expert gamers and beginners.

[Mindfane]

The problem I found is that the Heavy Melee has a long animation and you are out in the open taking the hits. And sometimes it doesn't even fire (probably lag). Eventhough he is classified as Engineer most of the damage co0mes from weapons. The mines do very good damage but it is pretty tricky to use it. Depending on map, the mine could stick at funny angles and no enemy will trigger it.

Anyway I will definitely give this guy another try.

[INFINITY650]

Cain mine all things!

[FellowMusicFan]

I've already done this exact build but I found it to be lacking. Especially on Gold. Honestly, if a power isn't viable for all difficulties, it shouldn't be viable at all. Also, off host the bow has serious issues with latency in hitting a target. The projectile almost always gets lagged and misses. If the target isn't standing perfectly still, only a couple to no bows at all hit the target.

He isn't a bad character at all either. Phenomenal on Silver if hosting with the buffs you'd mentioned, but that also leaves him extremely weak too by skipping health in fitness so taking him over to Gold can be difficult for some. And the trade off for doing so is laughable when you consider the damage you do with it.

I'd really like to see the Omni-Bow get a damage buff and also try and fix the firing mechanic so that it is homing. I don't expect it to go around cover like Throw, Warp, Incinerate etc. but it should most definitely hit the target more often. Off host you can pretty much predict it won't hit a moving target 50% of the time.

Also, as someone mentioned earlier this is a rather long list of requirements to make the character "effective" but no other character has this with their powers and abilities. They all have something to make them somewhat effective at base. The Omni-Bow at base is pitifully bad and not even its own power buffs can help it.

Modifié par FellowMusicFan, 01 mars 2013 - 03:15 .

[The Makr]

Wookie_Smuggler wrote...

Elotana wrote...

LeinadSemrig wrote...

So let's see, in order to use the bow I have to.

1) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon slots as a shotgun
2) Equip 1 of my 2 weapon mods as an omni-blade
3) Equip as many gear slots as possible for melee boosts
4) Spec completely out of survivability in favor of bow damage
5) Spec completely out of weapon damage in favor of power damage
6) Constantly use grenades to boost my arrows
7) Stand at least partway exposed to lock on with my shots since aiming on consoles is pretty much impossible.

If I do all of this my bow will at last become effective... Here's the thing, I can't think of a single kit that requires this level of specialization in order to use it's primary abilities effectively. No survivability, no weapon boosts, extremely limited load out options. The payoff for doing this should be enormous, With these kinds of requirements, I would expect this kit to literally have the single highest damage output in the game. It's nowhere even close to that. There needs to be significant boosts to this kit before a bow build would even seem remotely appealing.

Nailed it!

I agree wholeheartedly

Signed.  Also, what's with developing a character assuming that we are going to have all the right mods to make it playable.  I have a lot of other characters that use melee mods.  So why make a guy that is not Gold worthy if I don't have a Melee 3 mod around?  Mods should be player controlled extras.  Not developer assumed additions to their kits they think up.  We are either playing for or paying for those mods, so they should be considered extraas not planned into the kit developing process.

[Julian Skies]

The Makr you realize that in the original design for the game, and what I presume that they are still attempting to follow, gold is only doable with consumables, right?
And Platinum near-impossible without T4 consumables.

Fact that the few people that speak up here in the forums are apparently too good for that is unrelated to the game's design.

[BasketballParty]

For people wondering what weapons are best for this guy, it would be these weapons with reasons.
GPS(Geth Plasma Shotgun)- You can charge up this weapon and then charge the bow which really helps the timing for both things and doing a good amount of damage. The attachment that probably would be best suited for this guy is the Omni-blade. Now because the omni-blade increases your weight by an extra 50, DO NOT TRY TO WORRY ABOUT THE WEIGHT WITH THIS GUY since most of his powers are grenade based. He has the ability to regenerate his grenades but do not rely on that too much so just run to the ammo boxes to refill them. The GPS is great at applying ammo effects so Incendiary rounds would be a good idea because you can get some fire explosions or help your teammate/mates set them off. The second attachment is really what you suits you more comfortably (you got ammo problems then obviously spare ammo is the way to go/want some damage then use either damage mods).
The acolyte is also a good choice and is better at applying ammo effects than the GPS plus it can easily strip the shields off of enemies. Use melee stun mod and I would prefer the heavy barrel as the 2nd attachment so that the shield stripping is more effective. For the ammo type, I would heavily prefer those Cryo rounds because they can slow the enemy and debuff targets. If you do take an acolyte, bring a back up like the hurricane smg so you just have that there in case you need it because you never know when you will actually have to use it.
Charge weapon first then charge bow second. If you charge bow first, then you can't charge your weapon or apply the bow's ammo power. So take advantage of the gun's charge by being able to apply the bow's power(if you forgot to set it) and charging the bow.
I hope this part of my text can help people learn that the weapon choice can make their Talon better and make their Talon Engineer more efficient.

Tip of advice for the bow's powers:
Use concussive for regular troops and shields/barriers,
Use armor for bosses that are the armor level health state.

Edit: Keep the full melee build and power set-up that Eric Fagnan suggested. You can skip the rank 6 passive for regenerating the grenade slots quicker and put it to Cain mine.
If you are using the GPS, then use the 12%shotgun12%melee gear mod. If not, then use the 20% melee damage mod.
Use level 3 or 2 melee amps and power amps. Those amps will his go to amps.

2nd Edit:
Here's my set-up for this guy.
Concussive(6)- damage and force/chill/arrow count (this makes the damage higher)
Armor(6)- damage/armor damage/arrow count
Cain(3)
Elite Mercenary(5) power damage and power damage
Bow Mastery(6) All towards melee

This set-up is mainly for the bow and not the cain mine. To make you guys feel confident about this build, I have done well with this guy meaning that I scored 100k in a gold game on Condor/Reaper. But I will have to say he uses up a lot of amps.

Modifié par BasketballParty, 01 mars 2013 - 04:16 .

[Ogrinash]

I dare you (that's anyone) to play a full melee Talon on Gold and rely on the Bow as your main* damage dealer (which would mean no Cain Mines as they share the same capacity). It's embarrassing.

*The Bow takes so long to charge that your primary weapon is taken out of the field

(No argument that the Cain Mine build is a strong class though.)

[BasketballParty]

I would actually like the heavy melee ramp up for the omni-bow to be quicker so you can shoot more arrows quicker between shots. I feel this would really help him be more survivable because when you are able to take shots quickly and get back into cover, you are not exposing yourself out in the open as much. I have to admit that 625 Health and Shields is not a lot especially when you are exposing yourself out in the open alot. The auto lock-on with the bow gets annoying when the enemy is dead but the bow is still locked onto its dead body.

[Taritu]

Tried something very close to this (except I had fitness 4 in health/shield) and the conclusion I came to was that I was pretty much always better off using my claymore instead of the bow, and that grenade charges should be reserved for mines.

[The JoeMan]

BasketballParty wrote...

I would actually like the heavy melee ramp up for the omni-bow to be quicker so you can shoot more arrows quicker between shots. I feel this would really help him be more survivable because when you are able to take shots quickly and get back into cover, you are not exposing yourself out in the open as much. I have to admit that 625 Health and Shields is not a lot especially when you are exposing yourself out in the open alot. The auto lock-on with the bow gets annoying when the enemy is dead but the bow is still locked onto its dead body.

You can roll to cancel a shot and save an AP or concussive charge.

[Mindfane]

I think the two arrow powers should be like normal powers (like Ballistic Baldes) with a cooldown. Then we can leave his melee damage at what it currently is.

Also being an engineer I expected some tech based powers on him. I thought I would see Incendiary arrows and Electrical arrows. That we he could prime and detonate tech explosions. he is an engineer and xplosions should happen wherever he goes.

The trip-mines are good at the moment and they can stay as a grenade power and you can remove his grenade auto-regen.

I do not like his power and melee linked together. I usually melee and enemy when he is almost dead and I run out of ammo/reload. But in Talon's case if I happened to have a power arrow active, this means I am wasting an arrow.

When I played him, most of the damage came out of gun-he looks more like a soldier (actually when I think about it did BioWare accidently swapped talon with Jugg when they were assiging them a class?)

Modifié par Mindfane, 01 mars 2013 - 03:56 .