438 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

Seival wrote...

My good experience with the game discredits hate and "restaurant behaviour" of anti-enders. And it doesn't discredit constructive opinions, which anti-enders never had. There are pro-enders, who don't actually like how the ending was executed, you know? They've dealed with it, and they don't demand anything. They've voiced their opinions, and found their ways to get satisfaction from the ending. They create no disturbance, and not trying to derail support threads.

Are you at all capable of putting forward a point without passive-aggressively attackig entire groups of people?

Modifié par o Ventus, 01 mars 2013 - 11:04 .

[3DandBeyond]

I am getting some screenshots of PMs that BirdsallSa sent me as both plfranke and as Bird. I'm done with this juvenile behavior and am sorry for my part in it. I should have stopped it right away. I have to learn how to post a picture which will clearly show that Bird did all of this in order to make fun of those that liked the endings. I am appalled at myself for just letting it happen.

[Seival]

tevix wrote...

@Seival

If you don't care about something as malicious as people making fun of you behind your back..

Why did I get attacked for something as miniscule as having a couple of nitpicks about the ending?

I never attacked anyone. You consider some of my replies as insults? It's not my problem really. Or maybe someone showed you some disinformation about me? Well, I think you can think for yourself. I'm not an enemy to anyone here... You?

[KwangtungTiger]

Seival: "Please, read my post carefully before comment it (and sorry for my english, it's not my main language)... The game is great. Really, I have to admit ME3 (and the entire trilogy) is the best RPG game ever made. It deserves 10/10 rating.

But ME3 endings... They made me so sad... Never was so sad about a game before actually... I felt like everything I've made in ME1, ME2, and 99% of ME3 was for nothing...



(1) Choosing to control Reapers = the Cycle starts from the beginning, becouse when you control the Reapers you become one of them anyway. And reapers are not good at anything but harvesting people.

(2) Choosing to destroy all synthetics also = the Cycle starts from the beginning, but much later. Same story, but different faces. So, (1) almost = (2) actually.

(3) Choosing synthesis is very strange. Final stage of evolution? Nonsence. Mass Releys were destroyed. But sooner or later people will invent them again, and sepatated colonies will start to fight eachother. Again synthetcs, but they will fight half-synthetics who made them... Again Reapers, again Citadel. Again same story with different faces.



There are no different endings in ME3, there are 3 endings with almost no difference, but time left for story to repeat itself. And all 3 endings = Shepard's death... Very, very sad...



I'm sure the following was the idea of the entire ME story:
Many yeas ago there was a First Race in the galaxy. In time the race become very advanced, but it always had trouble building the synthetics who will not rebell against their creators. The race bacame insane, and started to make some insane theories about Order and Chaos. They started to believe that Order is that when some civilization become advanced enough to build synthetics, this race must be destroyed, but not completely in order to be able to start from the beginning. And the Chaos is when synthetics kill all organics in the galaxy, and remain the only living creatures. The ancient race created the Citadel and the Reapers (who are half-organics, as you remember). Then the race allowed Reapers to harvest them... Then the Cycles begin... And the Catalist... It was an AI left in Citadel in case that some civilization can become strong enough to oppose Reapers. Catalist's role was to explain the role of the Reapers and give the civilization a choice: live everithing as it is, or change it and become responsible for consiquences...



The problem is that in the game we have only one choice - left everything as it is. So It will be great if BioWare will make a DLC with at least one more ending:

Catalist can provide an option to deactivate all Reapers. Shepard and Anderson will be rescued and stay alive. Reapers will become inactive and harmless. But galactic civilization will be completely responsible for everything it will do in the future.

Please BioWare make it happen. "Take the Earth back!" remember? Right now we have no such option in the game."

Remember This? You were an anti-ender. This was your original opinion. It took someone else to convince you otherwise. At that point you cease to have your own personal opinion an converted to a group opinion. Kinda make's you sound like a bigot talking crap about anti-enders.

Modifié par KwangtungTiger, 01 mars 2013 - 11:16 .

[SpamBot2000]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I am getting some screenshots of PMs that BirdsallSa sent me as both plfranke and as Bird. I'm done with this juvenile behavior and am sorry for my part in it. I should have stopped it right away. I have to learn how to post a picture which will clearly show that Bird did all of this in order to make fun of those that liked the endings. I am appalled at myself for just letting it happen.

I'd advise against it. Posting private messages in public is a little.... frowned on by communities such as these. It's not worth it. You've already said enough.

[KwangtungTiger]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Seival wrote...

Some stories are told to teach some vital lessons, or share thoughts on some very important matters. These stories are truely deep and instructive, and they cannot have happy endings. They are all bittersweet. Just like the real life.

Right.  Because in real life, nothing ever works out ever and everything always ends badly.  Come on, people.  Disney isn't reality, but neither is Steinbeck.  Misery isn't the only way you can learn "vital lessons." 

+1

[Uncle Jo]

Seival wrote...

Relevant slap to a face is a nice way to wake someone up for thinking about some important things. The problem is that some people consider relevant slap to a face as a personal insult, and consider the one who performed it as an enemy.

Yes, ME3 ending is relevant slap to a face. And you should not hate BioWare and ME3 for that. You should think, and make constructive conclusions. "It's not what we came to see" is a childish statement. Lessons and tests are not always pleasent.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 01 mars 2013 - 11:18 .

[mvaning]

Seival wrote...

My good experience with the game discredits hate and "restaurant behaviour" of anti-enders. And it doesn't discredit constructive opinions, which anti-enders never had. There are pro-enders, who don't actually like how the ending was executed, you know? They've dealed with it, and they don't demand anything. They've voiced their opinions, and found their ways to get satisfaction from the ending. They create no disturbance, and not trying to derail support threads.

Your good experiences don't really discredit hate.   Hate is a bias, which is formed from an opinion.    Your good experiences also form your opinions, which are also a bias.    Having an opinion, in itself, does not discredit another opinion.   You have to prove that the opinion of your opponent is wrong.    You can't just call it wrong and call that a reasonable argument. 

People who don't like the ending or "anti-enders" have plenty of good reasons.  I have seen alot of good reasons from people who disagree with you in this thread.     It may be to your benefit to engage these people rather than simply discrediting their opinion because it is not yours.

And when you engage someone, you have to refrain from using terms like "restaurant behavior", making generalizations and calling people names such as "anti-enders"    People won't and aren't able to take you seriously because of this.    They are attempting to make logical and sound arguments and you are calling them names.    Do you see my point?    You may not see calling someone an "anti-ender" as name calling, but it is and it doesn't really make your argument productive.

[TheRealJayDee]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I am getting some screenshots of PMs that BirdsallSa sent me as both plfranke and as Bird. I'm done with this juvenile behavior and am sorry for my part in it. I should have stopped it right away. I have to learn how to post a picture which will clearly show that Bird did all of this in order to make fun of those that liked the endings. I am appalled at myself for just letting it happen.

I'd advise against it. Posting private messages in public is a little.... frowned on by communities such as these. It's not worth it. You've already said enough.

I concur. It's not worth it.

[tevix]

@Seival

You said you are ok with "Pro-enders"/people who like the endings but aren't 100% ok with the execution of it. You're very own words.

I like the ending and have just a couple of nitpicks with it's execution. Therefore you should approve of my point of view, by your own definition.

You don't, you toss me in with the "Anti-ender" crowd because of my very apt restaurant analogy.

You say one can be ok with the ending, but not think its 100% perfect. Yet when someone (like me) expresses EXACTLY that sentiment you treat them like an unreasonable "anti-ender".

Why?

[3DandBeyond]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I am getting some screenshots of PMs that BirdsallSa sent me as both plfranke and as Bird. I'm done with this juvenile behavior and am sorry for my part in it. I should have stopped it right away. I have to learn how to post a picture which will clearly show that Bird did all of this in order to make fun of those that liked the endings. I am appalled at myself for just letting it happen.

I'd advise against it. Posting private messages in public is a little.... frowned on by communities such as these. It's not worth it. You've already said enough.

Thanks I wondered if that wasn't the case.  I have however advised Bioware that I do have them if they need them.  This person was already once banned under this new name, temporarily.  This is all very childish stuff and sure I probably would never have gotten so upset if he had not started the nastiness in PMs as well as what he has done here.  Suffice to say, this person stated his intent was to get everyone riled up and to make fun of people that liked the endings and specifically Seival.  I should have been enough of an adult to stop this right away, but I'm dealing with some family and pet-related things.  A lot that's hitting me at the same time and I'm no spring chicken.

[Red Panda]

Guys, I think we've derailed the thread enough here. The person we were months ago doesn't matter. What matters is now, and in this thread, that's the original post.

[Red Panda]

o Ventus wrote...

Seival wrote...

My good experience with the game discredits hate and "restaurant behaviour" of anti-enders. And it doesn't discredit constructive opinions, which anti-enders never had. There are pro-enders, who don't actually like how the ending was executed, you know? They've dealed with it, and they don't demand anything. They've voiced their opinions, and found their ways to get satisfaction from the ending. They create no disturbance, and not trying to derail support threads.

Are you at all capable of putting forward a point without passive-aggressively attackig entire groups of people?

The way I see it, groups of people are passively-aggressively attacking this poor poster.

[TheRealJayDee]

mvaning wrote...

It may be to your benefit to engage these people rather than simply discrediting their opinion because it is not yours.

He obviously has no interest in this, and it would be for the best imo to just not respond to his deliberate provocations.

[Seival]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Seival: "Please, read my post carefully before comment it (and sorry for my english, it's not my main language)... The game is great. Really, I have to admit ME3 (and the entire trilogy) is the best RPG game ever made. It deserves 10/10 rating.

But ME3 endings... They made me so sad... Never was so sad about a game before actually... I felt like everything I've made in ME1, ME2, and 99% of ME3 was for nothing...



(1) Choosing to control Reapers = the Cycle starts from the beginning, becouse when you control the Reapers you become one of them anyway. And reapers are not good at anything but harvesting people.

(2) Choosing to destroy all synthetics also = the Cycle starts from the beginning, but much later. Same story, but different faces. So, (1) almost = (2) actually.

(3) Choosing synthesis is very strange. Final stage of evolution? Nonsence. Mass Releys were destroyed. But sooner or later people will invent them again, and sepatated colonies will start to fight eachother. Again synthetcs, but they will fight half-synthetics who made them... Again Reapers, again Citadel. Again same story with different faces.



There are no different endings in ME3, there are 3 endings with almost no difference, but time left for story to repeat itself. And all 3 endings = Shepard's death... Very, very sad...



I'm sure the following was the idea of the entire ME story:
Many yeas ago there was a First Race in the galaxy. In time the race become very advanced, but it always had trouble building the synthetics who will not rebell against their creators. The race bacame insane, and started to make some insane theories about Order and Chaos. They started to believe that Order is that when some civilization become advanced enough to build synthetics, this race must be destroyed, but not completely in order to be able to start from the beginning. And the Chaos is when synthetics kill all organics in the galaxy, and remain the only living creatures. The ancient race created the Citadel and the Reapers (who are half-organics, as you remember). Then the race allowed Reapers to harvest them... Then the Cycles begin... And the Catalist... It was an AI left in Citadel in case that some civilization can become strong enough to oppose Reapers. Catalist's role was to explain the role of the Reapers and give the civilization a choice: live everithing as it is, or change it and become responsible for consiquences...



The problem is that in the game we have only one choice - left everything as it is. So It will be great if BioWare will make a DLC with at least one more ending:

Catalist can provide an option to deactivate all Reapers. Shepard and Anderson will be rescued and stay alive. Reapers will become inactive and harmless. But galactic civilization will be completely responsible for everything it will do in the future.

Please BioWare make it happen. "Take the Earth back!" remember? Right now we have no such option in the game."

Remember This? You were an anti-ender. This was your original opinion. It took someone else to convince you otherwise. At that point you cease to have your own opinion an converted to a group opinion. Kinda make's you sound like a bigot talking crap about anti-enders.

This is how you see it right now. But are you sure you thought about the messages behind the ending enough?

Yes, I was anti-ender initially, but look at me now. Transform your depression and sadness into something productive. You can find inspiration in depression. You can find inspiration in sadness. You just should search. You should ask yourself the right questions, ask your morality and way of thinking. Did you miss something? Was that moment needlessly sad or actually it was instructive?

Think about the endings. Think more and more. Think through emotions, but without emotions. It will require some time, but you will find your satisfaction as well as your favorite ending. The Story tests you, and you should pass the test completely.

Modifié par Seival, 01 mars 2013 - 11:32 .

[tevix]

@OperatingWookie

I'm not sure I appreciate being lumped as an attacker. I've tried repeatedly to be civil and gotten a "you're wrong, and an ending hater" no matter what I say.

If you have ideas on how to improve my posting so as to achieve a differant result I'm all ears.

[Red Panda]

tevix wrote...

@OperatingWookie

I'm not sure I appreciate being lumped as an attacker. I've tried repeatedly to be civil and gotten a "you're wrong, and an ending hater" no matter what I say.

If you have ideas on how to improve my posting so as to achieve a differant result I'm all ears.

Well, I suppose differentiating yourself from those that are posting hateful comments would be a start. Try a more neutral viewpoint.

[tevix]

@OperatingWookie

More neutral? You obviously haven't read many of my posts.

"I like the ending, but have some nitpicks about it" - Me

"Don't like it, get out. This isn't a restaurant" - Seival

These aren't exact quotes but pretty close to what was said. Explain my failure in being neutral.

[Red Panda]

tevix wrote...

@OperatingWookie

More neutral? You obviously haven't read many of my posts.

"I like the ending, but have some nitpicks about it" - Me

"Don't like it, get out. This isn't a restaurant" - Seival

These aren't exact quotes but pretty close to what was said. Explain my failure in being neutral.

Maybe that comment wasn't aimed at you?

[inko1nsiderate]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Seival wrote...

Some stories are told to teach some vital lessons, or share thoughts on some very important matters. These stories are truely deep and instructive, and they cannot have happy endings. They are all bittersweet. Just like the real life.

Right.  Because in real life, nothing ever works out ever and everything always ends badly.  Come on, people.  Disney isn't reality, but neither is Steinbeck.  Misery isn't the only way you can learn "vital lessons." 

Inevitable heat death of the universe.  In the end, life ****ing sucks and everything you've done is meaningless.  Others might be depressed by that, but I feel incredibly liberated by that.

[tevix]

@Operatingwookie

It was. He quoted my last post and responded with that.

That was a direct statement-reply there.

[KwangtungTiger]

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Seival: "Please, read my post carefully before comment it (and sorry for my english, it's not my main language)... The game is great. Really, I have to admit ME3 (and the entire trilogy) is the best RPG game ever made. It deserves 10/10 rating.

But ME3 endings... They made me so sad... Never was so sad about a game before actually... I felt like everything I've made in ME1, ME2, and 99% of ME3 was for nothing...



(1) Choosing to control Reapers = the Cycle starts from the beginning, becouse when you control the Reapers you become one of them anyway. And reapers are not good at anything but harvesting people.

(2) Choosing to destroy all synthetics also = the Cycle starts from the beginning, but much later. Same story, but different faces. So, (1) almost = (2) actually.

(3) Choosing synthesis is very strange. Final stage of evolution? Nonsence. Mass Releys were destroyed. But sooner or later people will invent them again, and sepatated colonies will start to fight eachother. Again synthetcs, but they will fight half-synthetics who made them... Again Reapers, again Citadel. Again same story with different faces.



There are no different endings in ME3, there are 3 endings with almost no difference, but time left for story to repeat itself. And all 3 endings = Shepard's death... Very, very sad...



I'm sure the following was the idea of the entire ME story:
Many yeas ago there was a First Race in the galaxy. In time the race become very advanced, but it always had trouble building the synthetics who will not rebell against their creators. The race bacame insane, and started to make some insane theories about Order and Chaos. They started to believe that Order is that when some civilization become advanced enough to build synthetics, this race must be destroyed, but not completely in order to be able to start from the beginning. And the Chaos is when synthetics kill all organics in the galaxy, and remain the only living creatures. The ancient race created the Citadel and the Reapers (who are half-organics, as you remember). Then the race allowed Reapers to harvest them... Then the Cycles begin... And the Catalist... It was an AI left in Citadel in case that some civilization can become strong enough to oppose Reapers. Catalist's role was to explain the role of the Reapers and give the civilization a choice: live everithing as it is, or change it and become responsible for consiquences...



The problem is that in the game we have only one choice - left everything as it is. So It will be great if BioWare will make a DLC with at least one more ending:

Catalist can provide an option to deactivate all Reapers. Shepard and Anderson will be rescued and stay alive. Reapers will become inactive and harmless. But galactic civilization will be completely responsible for everything it will do in the future.

Please BioWare make it happen. "Take the Earth back!" remember? Right now we have no such option in the game."

Remember This? You were an anti-ender. This was your original opinion. It took someone else to convince you otherwise. At that point you cease to have your own opinion an converted to a group opinion. Kinda make's you sound like a bigot talking crap about anti-enders.

This is how you see it right now. But are you sure you thought about the messages behind the ending enough?

Yes, I was anti-ender initially, but look at me now. Transform your depression and sadness into something productive. You can find inspiration in depression. You can find inspiration in sadness. You just should search. You should ask yourself the right questions, ask your morality and way of thinking. Did you miss something? Was that moment needlessly sad or actually it was instructive?

Think about the endings. Think more and more. Think through emotions, but without emotions. It will require some time, but you will find your satisfaction as well as your favorite ending. The Story tests you, and you should pass the test completely.

 
 Again, Im not an anti-ender and never have been. Just pointing to your bigotry by calling people "anti" and "haters" when your PERSONAL opinion was "anti" and it took someone else (which made it a GROUP or COLLECTIVE opinion)to convince you other wise.

 I take the endings at face value.

[Red Panda]

tevix wrote...

@Operatingwookie

It was. He quoted my last post and responded with that.

That was a direct statement-reply there.

I should go.

[Seival]

tevix wrote...

@Seival

You said you are ok with "Pro-enders"/people who like the endings but aren't 100% ok with the execution of it. You're very own words.

I like the ending and have just a couple of nitpicks with it's execution. Therefore you should approve of my point of view, by your own definition.

You don't, you toss me in with the "Anti-ender" crowd because of my very apt restaurant analogy.

You say one can be ok with the ending, but not think its 100% perfect. Yet when someone (like me) expresses EXACTLY that sentiment you treat them like an unreasonable "anti-ender".

Why?

If you would give me a reason to call you unreasonable anti-ender, then I would call you unreasonable anti-ender. It's as simple as that. I don't remember everyone on BSN, and each previous conversation...

...Anyhow, that should be discussed via PMs. Let's stay on topic here.