438 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

BirdsallSa wrote...

The OP has no nerve whatsoever. You know, when I first started posting on this forum I saw things differently than I do now. But people like Seival, Auld Wulf, pretty much all of the ending supporters have it right. You never see them personally attacking people and when they give their word on something they stand by it. Take ending haters on the other hand and all they do is flip flop. We may not be able to trust people but we can trust Bioware and they delivered with the ending. I believe in that.

On the contrary, Seival has attacked me personally on more than one occasion and I'd rather there were more people in the world that expressed anger over a video game's ending than hatred for real people.

Your stance here and in other places is your right and I'd defend that with all that is in me, but not when it comes to hurting real people gratuitously.

I think my friend pfranke would have agreed with me.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 28 février 2013 - 11:15 .

[BirdsallSa]

tevix wrote...

@BirdsallSa

Spoonfeeding? Discussing points of view with another person is "Spoonfeeding" and not worth the time? Isn't that what you do anytime you respond to ANYONE on here?

What insults have I tossed out? Good lord, man what does it take to get you to sit down and have a friendly exchange of ideas? I actually WANT to get to know you and what you think about different things in the game but you're just...attacking me and shoving me away.

That's not very nice.

Are you saying you want to join Team BirdsallSa?

[BSpud]

lol tevix

Hey Seival, could you tell me more about your Normandy test-jump theory?

[tevix]

@BirdsallSa

I'm asking to have a chance to actually have a friendly discussion and exchange of ideas. I have opinions. Are they right, or fair? I don't always know, that's the point of talking with others about the same thing. I don't know about your team, but I do know that I've been trying to be patient and polite out of an interest to talk, not fight.

I come here for the community, not the drama. Sometimes I fail and say stupid things, and I apologize for when I do.

[Bizantura]

Deep story? It is a typical american hero story, nothing special about it except for the very bad written ending. But if they new about the backlash hanging over their heads I'm sure they would have written it differently.
Fun to play, for me that is a yes.....

[Seival]

Deep and instructive stories always create noisy debates, because a lot of people consider some other people opinions as personal insults. The deeper the story, the more it questions and tests moralities of different people - the more intense are the debates.

Where are the people, who think that peace can be achieved by toleration and following the rules? My advise to those people: look at BSN and reconsider, please. Different entities will always fight each other. Even if the entities are just humans with different ways of thinking.

...Even BSN itself proves that everything Catalyst said is true.

Modifié par Seival, 28 février 2013 - 11:38 .

[Legion of 1337]

I didn't expect Shepard to survive. I was actually expecting more people to die than actually did. But I didn't want a strings-attached ending (ie the Geth dying too).

You can make a bittersweet ending and still have it be well written. This was not well written.

[Funkdrspot]

TheProtheans wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

The endings aren't bad because they aren't happy.

They're bad for a number of other reasons.

Sevial is a troll, he can't hear.
A lot of vocal pro-enders are trolls, they just ignore facts.

you. this post. the literal definition of hypocrisy and irony. 

[Edolix]

This thread is loltastic



Keep going.

[MattFini]

Seival wrote...

...Even BSN itself proves that everything Catalyst said is true.

What an absurd, trollish statement.

[Jenonax]

Seival wrote...

Deep and instructive stories always create noisy debates, because a lot of people consider some other people opinions as personal insults. The deeper the story, the more it questions and tests moralities of different people - the more intense are the debates.

Where are the people, who think that peace can be achieved by toleration and following the rules? My advise to those people: look at BSN and reconsider, please. Different entities will always fight each other. Even if the entities are just humans with different ways of thinking.

...Even BSN itself proves that everything Catalyst said is true.

Except the ending is about as deep as a puddle.

Anyone can throw together a short story with no explanation and toss about terms like genocide and technilogical singularity and then fail to explain it properly, give it any real context and just abandon ship immediately afterward.  Like tossing a grenade into a party then leaping out the window, leaving everyone bloodied and confused with no idea what happened and no one to answer for it.  Bioware tossed in an explosive ending and then just stopped telling the story.  Yeah, really deep and clever that.

[AlanC9]

tevix wrote...

@Alan C9
Maybe you should read one's entire post before responding?

He's quick to argue, slow to thank. Makes it hard to like him.

I read the whole post.

Modifié par AlanC9, 28 février 2013 - 11:56 .

[spirosz]

I believe in you Seival.

[Konfined]

Seival wrote...

Deep and instructive stories always create noisy debates, because a lot of people consider some other people opinions as personal insults. The deeper the story, the more it questions and tests moralities of different people - the more intense are the debates.

Where are the people, who think that peace can be achieved by toleration and following the rules? My advise to those people: look at BSN and reconsider, please. Different entities will always fight each other. Even if the entities are just humans with different ways of thinking.

...Even BSN itself proves that everything Catalyst said is true.

Indeed.  The Bioware (intended) has proven beyond a shadow of doubt, that the human condition is the problem.  And you know how to cure the human condition right?  That's right, genocide!  Looks like that one guy with those guys that did that thing with those guys at that place during that time in that place was right all along huh?

Modifié par Konfined, 28 février 2013 - 11:59 .

[M Hedonist]

The problem is that a game now exists that allows you to freaking commit genocide. It's the most ham-fisted way possible to stir up debates.

[BirdsallSa]

3DandBeyond wrote...

BirdsallSa wrote...

The OP has no nerve whatsoever. You know, when I first started posting on this forum I saw things differently than I do now. But people like Seival, Auld Wulf, pretty much all of the ending supporters have it right. You never see them personally attacking people and when they give their word on something they stand by it. Take ending haters on the other hand and all they do is flip flop. We may not be able to trust people but we can trust Bioware and they delivered with the ending. I believe in that.

On the contrary, Seival has attacked me personally on more than one occasion and I'd rather there were more people in the world that expressed anger over a video game's ending than hatred for real people.

Your stance here and in other places is your right and I'd defend that with all that is in me, but not when it comes to hurting real people gratuitously.

I think my friend pfranke would have agreed with me.

The injustice on this thread disgusts me. No one even read the OP they just started making assumptions. You say Seival personally attacks you, but give no evidence. In fact, the only thing I see is other people attacking him. You essentially call me crazy on my poll thread and then play the victim everywhere else. The OP is right. The bsn is full of liars and a bunch of people who would sell you out as soon as look at you. No concept of "friendship" and certainly not honor.

This thread stands for the defense of a game whose writing was second to none and narrative coherence shined through, never abandoning its core values, and I think everyone can agree on that. Not just some guy who isn't even in the thread.

[Konfined]

BirdsallSa wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

BirdsallSa wrote...

The OP has no nerve whatsoever. You know, when I first started posting on this forum I saw things differently than I do now. But people like Seival, Auld Wulf, pretty much all of the ending supporters have it right. You never see them personally attacking people and when they give their word on something they stand by it. Take ending haters on the other hand and all they do is flip flop. We may not be able to trust people but we can trust Bioware and they delivered with the ending. I believe in that.

On the contrary, Seival has attacked me personally on more than one occasion and I'd rather there were more people in the world that expressed anger over a video game's ending than hatred for real people.

Your stance here and in other places is your right and I'd defend that with all that is in me, but not when it comes to hurting real people gratuitously.

I think my friend pfranke would have agreed with me.

The injustice on this thread disgusts me. No one even read the OP they just started making assumptions. You say Seival personally attacks you, but give no evidence. In fact, the only thing I see is other people attacking him. You essentially call me crazy on my poll thread and then play the victim everywhere else. The OP is right. The bsn is full of liars and a bunch of people who would sell you out as soon as look at you. No concept of "friendship" and certainly not honor.

This thread stands for the defense of a game whose writing was second to none and narrative coherence shined through, never abandoning its core values, and I think everyone can agree on that. Not just some guy who isn't even in the thread.

Nonsense.  Everyone here is getting along swimmingly.  I find your sudden negativity to be slightly off-putting, however.  You're usually so chipper.

Modifié par Konfined, 01 mars 2013 - 12:11 .

[KBomb]

gmag was banned and yet these guys... /facepalm

[Argolas]

@Seival:

Amongst all the spam, trolling and alike, there is actually some really good stuff happening here on BSN.The debates help everyone form an opinion about one of our favorite games (I'm assuming that if it isn't, one wouldn't stay long). If there wasn't any conflict and we all had the same opinion, this whole platform would be worth nothing.

I, for one, celebrate diversity. I am glad that there are others who reflect my thoughts and disagree, opening me new perspectives. Although it is not always pleasant, I appreciate conflict for said reasons. It is up to us to keep it civil.

[o Ventus]

Lizardviking wrote...

To continue from this part, even if you get the ending where Shepard and their LI can finally live happily ever after. You could still put a focus on the (potential) damage the war had to Shepard's psyche such as PTSD. And how it affected Shepard on the long term. 

Just throwing an idea out.

Get out of my head. This was the idea behind my post-ending fan fic.

[StayFrosty05]

3DandBeyond wrote...

.......snip.........

I guess it lets you know what not to buy-saves money.

Considering that real honest actual sf storytellers panned this bunch of garbage and that literary people have thoroughly deconstructed it and explained how the endings in no way thematically fit the stories that came before, and that actual people who read realize the endings are atrocious, I think the OP is misguided at best.  This is a person that thinks in games you should have concentration camps.  And that thinks dictators are just great, that there are no heroes and that good does not really exist.  He believes there's no such thing as a hero.  He thinks there should be no free will.  So, I think the lessons learned are ones people have fought to rid the world of as often as is humanly possible.

The endings are bitter and demented, the sweet that the OP believes exists has no basis in rational thought, but exists in slides and cutscenes that only exist to promote the idea the relays did not destroy the galaxy.  It's because BW considered fans stupid for not understanding that in the original endings, even though they showed and said and all but hit us over the head with content that said the relays should have destroyed the galaxy when they exploded. 

There's no corollary at all with real life here.  Synthesis alone makes that idea laughable.  The idea that anyone would choose some shackled form of life when they've just begun to fight a foe they have been trying to get at and join the galaxy together to fight is ridiculous.

And the main idea of this story does not exist at the end-it's been replaced just as surely as has most of the poignant, bittersweet, coherent, rational, and contextual matter that made up the stories.  Sure, there are things that are wrong with the rest of the game, but it falls apart at the end.  The endings are not connected to the rest of the story except by superficial means-characters' names, the setting, and so on connect them, but not the story (or lack thereof).

I certainly appreciated these endings when they were attached to the stories they were ripped from, but in ME3 they have nothing to do with the main ME idea.  The uniting of the galaxy-Shepard is alone and makes a solo decision.  Choices along the way would define the outcome-no, the choice at the end defines the outcome and that is merely determined by EMS, most of which doesn't even have to be earned within the story.  Strength through diversity-nope, it's really about ridding the galaxy of diversity.  Organics, whether they like it or not will be homogenized-either with synthetics that become a part of them or through the control of synthetics over their lives, or by the very lack of synthetics.  Organics learn the lesson that there is no diversity that can exist that accepts synthetics-because organics and synthetics cannot live together on an equal footing.  One must be subservient or one or the other must be destroyed-destroy kills synthetics and synthesis destroys organics.  Redemption-there is none.  The galaxy must surrender and must obey a choice that exists and is given by someone-the kid or the crucible's original creators or just someone.  People have no apparent right to their own destiny-they cannot win it and cannot work toward it-a choice created by an unknown entity and then enacted by Shepard will decide their destiny.  What a wise thing.  And oh, I am so benefitting by learning this.

The OP has some nerve talking about how much he has learned from this game.  He has constantly told people they need to understand real life.  Well, get a clue.  We all have real lives.  We can see the news or read or watch or experience real life.  Yet, when I (an older woman) tried to explain some of what has happened in my real life-the OP called me a liar.  I think he needs to learn what hatred is and what contempt is, for he has shown both in equal measure.  So much for learning some decent lessons from this tripe.

I don't need a video game to try and tell me about real life.  I am alive and I live it every day.

Beautifully said DandBeyond...Thank you...you have nailed it.

[BirdsallSa]

Argolas wrote...

@Seival:

Amongst all the spam, trolling and alike, there is actually some really good stuff happening here on BSN.The debates help everyone form an opinion about one of our favorite games (I'm assuming that if it isn't, one wouldn't stay long). If there wasn't any conflict and we all had the same opinion, this whole platform would be worth nothing.

I, for one, celebrate diversity. I am glad that there are others who reflect my thoughts and disagree, opening me new perspectives. Although it is not always pleasant, I appreciate conflict for said reasons. It is up to us to keep it civil.

"I appreciate conflict for said reasons" Is it worth huanity's existance to "open new perspectives"? Because that's exactly what happened in Mass Effect

[spirosz]

I still lol @ deep and instructive.

[spirosz]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

.......snip.........

I guess it lets you know what not to buy-saves money.

Considering that real honest actual sf storytellers panned this bunch of garbage and that literary people have thoroughly deconstructed it and explained how the endings in no way thematically fit the stories that came before, and that actual people who read realize the endings are atrocious, I think the OP is misguided at best.  This is a person that thinks in games you should have concentration camps.  And that thinks dictators are just great, that there are no heroes and that good does not really exist.  He believes there's no such thing as a hero.  He thinks there should be no free will.  So, I think the lessons learned are ones people have fought to rid the world of as often as is humanly possible.

The endings are bitter and demented, the sweet that the OP believes exists has no basis in rational thought, but exists in slides and cutscenes that only exist to promote the idea the relays did not destroy the galaxy.  It's because BW considered fans stupid for not understanding that in the original endings, even though they showed and said and all but hit us over the head with content that said the relays should have destroyed the galaxy when they exploded. 

There's no corollary at all with real life here.  Synthesis alone makes that idea laughable.  The idea that anyone would choose some shackled form of life when they've just begun to fight a foe they have been trying to get at and join the galaxy together to fight is ridiculous.

And the main idea of this story does not exist at the end-it's been replaced just as surely as has most of the poignant, bittersweet, coherent, rational, and contextual matter that made up the stories.  Sure, there are things that are wrong with the rest of the game, but it falls apart at the end.  The endings are not connected to the rest of the story except by superficial means-characters' names, the setting, and so on connect them, but not the story (or lack thereof).

I certainly appreciated these endings when they were attached to the stories they were ripped from, but in ME3 they have nothing to do with the main ME idea.  The uniting of the galaxy-Shepard is alone and makes a solo decision.  Choices along the way would define the outcome-no, the choice at the end defines the outcome and that is merely determined by EMS, most of which doesn't even have to be earned within the story.  Strength through diversity-nope, it's really about ridding the galaxy of diversity.  Organics, whether they like it or not will be homogenized-either with synthetics that become a part of them or through the control of synthetics over their lives, or by the very lack of synthetics.  Organics learn the lesson that there is no diversity that can exist that accepts synthetics-because organics and synthetics cannot live together on an equal footing.  One must be subservient or one or the other must be destroyed-destroy kills synthetics and synthesis destroys organics.  Redemption-there is none.  The galaxy must surrender and must obey a choice that exists and is given by someone-the kid or the crucible's original creators or just someone.  People have no apparent right to their own destiny-they cannot win it and cannot work toward it-a choice created by an unknown entity and then enacted by Shepard will decide their destiny.  What a wise thing.  And oh, I am so benefitting by learning this.

The OP has some nerve talking about how much he has learned from this game.  He has constantly told people they need to understand real life.  Well, get a clue.  We all have real lives.  We can see the news or read or watch or experience real life.  Yet, when I (an older woman) tried to explain some of what has happened in my real life-the OP called me a liar.  I think he needs to learn what hatred is and what contempt is, for he has shown both in equal measure.  So much for learning some decent lessons from this tripe.

I don't need a video game to try and tell me about real life.  I am alive and I live it every day.

Beautifully said DandBeyond...Thank you...you have nailed it.