438 réponses à ce sujet

[iamthedave3]

Indy_S wrote...

OP, I immensely disagree with your hypothesis that people dislike the ending because it is sad. I propose that people dislike it because it is really bad, incongruous with what came before it and reliant on what appears to be gibberish.

Don't even try. If someone reaches for that old excuse they are immune to any argument that suggests any other conclusion. No matter what you say, the only reason you dislike the ending is because it is sad, and you can't appreciate the sheer artistry of ME 3's ending yada yada yada etcetera.

You know how this goes. Anyone who hates the endings knows how this goes.

[Yestare7]

Han Shot First wrote...

I do agree with the OP in that a happy ending is not a necessity for good storytelling, and that a bittersweet tone was the right tone for Bioware to aim for.

Where we differ is that I don't think there was anything deep or throught provoking about the endinsg to Mass Effect 3, and that I don't think Bioware succeeded in writing a good bittersweet end to the trilogy. The original endings were a case of a good idea and bad execution.

Where I think Bioware failed in trying to write a decent bittersweet ending to the trilogy, is in making the Mass Effect universe itself a casualty. In the original endings galactic civilization collapses and the Mass Effect universe as we knew it was gone. Players had just spent an entire game rallying all the various factions to set aside differences and unite, only to have that galactic unity destroyed for millenia in the original endings. This was retconned with the High EMS versions of the EC of course, but a galactic dark age does seem to be what Bioware was initially aiming for

Most players are willing to accept some loss I think, but what they quite obviously weren't willing to accept is the universe they had come to know and love over the last five years and three games, be completely demolished with the stroke of a writer's pen.

A better way to have executed a good bittersweet ending IMO, would have been to have another Suicide Mission in the end game, except this time the Suicide Mission would be aptly named. All the surviving ME2 squadmates would join for the final push, and in even in a 'perfect' run you'd end up losing some of these squadmates, Anderson, and potentially Shepard as well. Their losses would provide the 'bitter,' but their sacrifice would help in saving galactic civilization from the Reapers. The 'sweet' would be a victory that saved that game universe we've all come to know and love. Some squadmates might die, but galactic civilization would live on.

Very well spoken.

Modifié par Yestare7, 01 mars 2013 - 10:15 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

lol, the sheer stupidity of some of the posts in this thread is over 9000.

[SpamBot2000]

Seems to make the OP plenty happy. Argument invalid.

[BrotherArdis]

Yes, this story has taught me several things. I'm just not sure if these were the ones Bioware wanted me to learn.

Modifié par BrotherArdis, 01 mars 2013 - 12:13 .

[Felya87]

Sometimes is not "what kind of ending" one see. is "how is made" that can bring tears or happiness.

Even now, the videgame who give me the bigger emotion at the end is Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2.
expecially the first one, is the more bitterswett ending I ever see, with LotR: Return of the king.

people survive, but they will not see each other again. in the case of LotR maybe never again, in Kindom Hearts 1 maybe one day. the protagonists must continue their life without the people who care about, knowing they are alive somewhere, but they would never be able to go to them.
a constant pain, much bigger, at least in my part, than the one of a death. not knowing sometimes is worse than knowing. you can resign yourself of a death, but is more difficult with a disappearance.

Still, I really don't get why people who like the drama and sadness hate so much who like happyness in a story...I guess is just to make themself see as acculturated and deep people. because it really didn't make sense, since is just a question of personal taste.

[mvaning]

Seival wrote...

Some stories are told to teach some vital lessons, or share thoughts on some very important matters. These stories are truely deep and instructive, and they cannot have happy endings. They are all bittersweet. Just like the real life.

Mass Effect Trilogy is that kind of story... To think about important things, and make your own conclusions. To test you own morality in the crucible of dire and inevitable events. To learn a lesson and find comfort in important things you understood.

To like such story is to accept and understand its main idea. You don't have to be happy after reading. But you will certainly become a little wiser.



Once again, I want to say thanks to BioWare, and especially the writers. I hope you will keep creating stories like Mass Effect Trilogy in the future no matter what some disappointed people say. The Trilogy was golden. The Ending was brilliant. You will be remembered as one of the best sci-fi storytellers.

There isn't meaningful moral education in mass effect.   It is highly unlikely this was bioware's intent as well.   Instead, what you have is a conflict of ideologies that lend to prolonged moral debates on the BSN.

[Mathias]

When I was 8, my dog Heidi was hit and killed by a car.

I don't need a video game to teach my vital life lessons. I play games for fun, and to have a rewarding experience. I didn't get that. Instead I got some artistic tryhard 2deep4u ending.

[Peranor]

Lay off the pipe Seival.

The story didn't make you or anyone else "a little wiser".
The story wasn't Deep.
And no, the ending wasn't thought provoking either.

It's perfectly fine to like the ending. But don't try to make it in to something it isn't.

[3DandBeyond]

iamthedave3 wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

OP, I immensely disagree with your hypothesis that people dislike the ending because it is sad. I propose that people dislike it because it is really bad, incongruous with what came before it and reliant on what appears to be gibberish.

Don't even try. If someone reaches for that old excuse they are immune to any argument that suggests any other conclusion. No matter what you say, the only reason you dislike the ending is because it is sad, and you can't appreciate the sheer artistry of ME 3's ending yada yada yada etcetera.

You know how this goes. Anyone who hates the endings knows how this goes.

Yes, see people take certain buzzwords and that's all they "hear"-really it's all they intend to hear.  So, if I say I really wanted a happier ending, well but of course I was looking for the Disney puppies and rainbows type ending no matter what I say and what I mean by all that.  What happens here is that some people seem so apparently against any kind of happier (for lack of a better word) ending because they cannot understand that it could be something other than a Disney-type one.  Well, my imagination is bigger than that. 

The other issue here is at the same time, they will also say they have a happy ending, and yeah that's what the slides and all are supposed to indicate.  But, it's not intellectual, it's juvenile.  The endings just ignore what the choices mean and the grim dark attempt turns into cheese and silliness.  The grim dark exists in being told these are the choices and why they are the choices, why the kid has been doing all this stuff. 

I didn't want or expect Hollywood happy.  I expected more of a satisfaction at having saved what is left of the galaxy and of doing a real good thing and then trying to live on from there.  The idea that this all even with Shepard surviving would be super happy is like saying the Wasteland in Fallout 3 is one big party.  And the setting in Fallout 3 or New Vegas is sort of what I envision being left after the reapers are destroyed. 


This is how it could in part have played out for me-an ending that is kind of like someone who you love surviving a horrific car wreck.  Much pain has happened and is yet to happen and their survival was not without loss.  The happiness is there-happy they are alive, but the future is sobering and not without its problems, but people of real character can and will deal with it. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 01 mars 2013 - 01:14 .

[FOX216BC]

Many games didn't end with a "Happy ending".
Neiher should "every" game end with a Happy end.
They should end with a "fitting ending" or endings in ME's case.
All it was was a mediocre endings, not even bittersweet or sad or anything like that.
And that's what many do not understand, how such a great trilogy comes the such a weak conclusion.

Modifié par FOX216BC, 01 mars 2013 - 01:47 .

[Nightdragon8]

Hexley UK wrote...

Seival wrote...

Some stories are told to teach some vital lessons, or share thoughts on some very important matters. These stories are truely deep and instructive, and they cannot have happy endings. They are all bittersweet. Just like the real life.

Mass Effect Trilogy is that kind of story... To think about important things, and make your own conclusions. To test you own morality in the crucible of dire and inevitable events. To learn a lesson and find comfort in important things you understood.

To like such story is to accept and understand its main idea. You don't have to be happy after reading. But you will certainly become a little wiser.



Once again, I want to say thanks to BioWare, and especially the writers. I hope you will keep creating stories like Mass Effect Trilogy in the future no matter what some disappointed people say. The Trilogy was golden. The Ending was brilliant. You will be remembered as one of the best sci-fi storytellers.

Nope.

And how does this crap make you wiser?

Explain to me what lessons you learned from this utter tripe.

Dont buy into hype dont ever buy the "Collectors Edition" dont buy games sololy on title names, dont buy games sololy of devloper "name brand" names.

And never buy a game at full price, wait for the sale where you can get it half off.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

If the Gears of War trilogy has a better ending, than a Bioware game there is something very wrong.

[3DandBeyond]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...


Nope.

And how does this crap make you wiser?

Explain to me what lessons you learned from this utter tripe.

Dont buy into hype dont ever buy the "Collectors Edition" dont buy games sololy on title names, dont buy games sololy of devloper "name brand" names.

And never buy a game at full price, wait for the sale where you can get it half off.

Yes this.  I think BW and EA have done a real disservice to all game devs.  Previously there were many games that right now I'd be thinking of pre-ordering.  About the only one that I am even considering is The Last of Us.  Otherwise, unless pre-ordering comes with an ironclad money back guarantee that any and all advertising used to promote it (hype, interviews, twits tweeting) will be honest and factual, I will not pre-order anything.  The collector's editions don't offer enough for me to care about them and in the end any cheap stuff included with them end up gathering dust, anyway.  I used to pre-order with some excited anticipation, but that's gone.  BW isn't the only company that has led me to this, but they are the worst in terms of not delivering on promises that were directed at getting people to pre-order.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...


Nope.

And how does this crap make you wiser?

Explain to me what lessons you learned from this utter tripe.

Dont buy into hype dont ever buy the "Collectors Edition" dont buy games sololy on title names, dont buy games sololy of devloper "name brand" names.

And never buy a game at full price, wait for the sale where you can get it half off.

Yes this.  I think BW and EA have done a real disservice to all game devs.  Previously there were many games that right now I'd be thinking of pre-ordering.  About the only one that I am even considering is The Last of Us.  Otherwise, unless pre-ordering comes with an ironclad money back guarantee that any and all advertising used to promote it (hype, interviews, twits tweeting) will be honest and factual, I will not pre-order anything.  The collector's editions don't offer enough for me to care about them and in the end any cheap stuff included with them end up gathering dust, anyway.  I used to pre-order with some excited anticipation, but that's gone.  BW isn't the only company that has led me to this, but they are the worst in terms of not delivering on promises that were directed at getting people to pre-order.

I agree with this, there have been at least five games, that have been released and are to be released this year, that I would have normally preordered and haven't, I'm just going to wait till they are cheap.

Devil May Cry
Metal Gear Solid: Revengeance
Crysis 3
Dead Space 3
Bioshock: Infinite

[BirdsallSa]

You people act like just because a couple of bad things happen to you here and there, that everything we watch and read should be happy to make up for it. You clearly can't have too much to worry about if you're on a fan website complaining about a game that's been out for a year.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

You must be reading a different thread than I am because the majority of people in this thread are saying that ME3's ending was not well written and they would like and ending that flowed with the trilogy's narrative. Not that the wanted sunshine and rainbows ending.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 01 mars 2013 - 02:13 .

[JPR1964]

MattFini wrote...

BirdsallSa wrote...

I can confirm...

Stopped reading there. 

I stopped at the name

Seival didn't understand anything after all this time : some of us didn't care about an happy ending, but I was hoping for an EPIC ending... all I got was a color based ABC ending... Or a void one after EC...

Pile of craphorses, I said.

JPR out!

[BirdsallSa]

DinoSteve wrote...

You must be reading a different thread than I am because the majority of people in this thread are saying that ME3's ending was not well written. Not that the wanted sunshine and rainbows ending.

For an ending that was written by only two people with limited time and resources I'd say it's spectacularly written.

[Peranor]

BirdsallSa wrote...

You people act like just because a couple of bad things happen to you here and there, that everything we watch and read should be happy to make up for it. You clearly can't have too much to worry about if you're on a fan website complaining about a game that's been out for a year.

If you want literature that can teach you something, that is melancholic, deep, intelligent, thought provoking and all that there's plenty of it to be had out there.

Mass Effect never was any of this. And people who got in to the story never got in to it expecting it to be anything like that either.
That is the problem. In the last chapter Bioware tried to turn the story in to something it was never meant to be, and it failed, miserably. That is what people is upset about.

Modifié par anorling, 01 mars 2013 - 02:16 .

[Ridwan]

BirdsallSa wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

You must be reading a different thread than I am because the majority of people in this thread are saying that ME3's ending was not well written. Not that the wanted sunshine and rainbows ending.

For an ending that was written by only two people with limited time and resources I'd say it's spectacularly written.

You're being sarcastic I hope, pulling out the space brat to be answer to everything isn't good writing.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

BirdsallSa wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

You must be reading a different thread than I am because the majority of people in this thread are saying that ME3's ending was not well written. Not that the wanted sunshine and rainbows ending.

For an ending that was written by only two people with limited time and resources I'd say it's spectacularly written.

No it wasn't and you need to read more. There was also no reason for it to be written by two people. It doesn't cost money to ask any of the rest of the team is this good.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 01 mars 2013 - 02:17 .

[BirdsallSa]

anorling wrote...

BirdsallSa wrote...

You people act like just because a couple of bad things happen to you here and there, that everything we watch and read should be happy to make up for it. You clearly can't have too much to worry about if you're on a fan website complaining about a game that's been out for a year.

If you want literature that can teach you something, that is melancholic, deep, intelligent, thought provoking and all that there's plenty of it to be had out there.

Mass Effect never was any of this. And people who got in to the story never got in to it expecting it to be anything like that either.
That is the problem. In the last chapter Bioware tried to turn the story in to something it wasn't meant to be, and it failed, miserably. That is what people is upset about.

Look we're not talking about Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2, the comics, none of that. We're talking about the ending of mass effect 3 so don't try to derail the subject by going off to what people wanted when they started the trilogy. It doesn't matter what they wanted. What about what Bioware wanted? They clearly had an artistic vision that involved teaching the masses something about victory through peace, understanding and sacrifice, and if you didn't appreciate that, you didn't have to buy. Sorry that it wasn't the call of duty shoot out ice cream social that you wanted, but that isn't Bioware's problem and it isn't mine either.

[Almostfaceman]

drayfish wrote...


Thank you for the lesson Bioware.

You've shown me that diversity and unity are an empty, hopeless lie. The only way to stop intollerance and fear is through genocide, totalitarianism, or eugenics. And if people don't believe that, they should die, and watch everyone they loved slaughtered because they were a coward.

What a beautiful message.

Word.

[RedBeardJim]

DinoSteve wrote...

BirdsallSa wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

You must be reading a different thread than I am because the majority of people in this thread are saying that ME3's ending was not well written. Not that the wanted sunshine and rainbows ending.

For an ending that was written by only two people with limited time and resources I'd say it's spectacularly written.

No it wasn't and you need to read more. There was also no reason for it to be written by two people. It doesn't cost money to ask any of the rest of the team is this good.

Don't try to argue with Birdsall, they're a troll plain and simple.