631 réponses à ce sujet

[KwangtungTiger]

McFlurry598 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

McFlurry598 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

McFlurry598 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

-snipitty snip snip -

Ok dude, I think thats enough ME bashing for you. First you  bash on Admiral Hackett, now ALL the Mass Effects? Wtf is your problem? Stop bashing on ME and spamming the forums

I don't see how criticising one character and pointing out flaws in the games is bashing or spam. These games aren't perfect or maybe great, they have flaws. Saying they don't would simply be a lie.

EVERY game has flaws.  Your'e simply bashing on everything Mass Effect. Your flaws are mere opinions anyways. The fact that you chose Mass Effect to bash on means you probably are still angry about the endings. If you don't like the games, don't play them, it's as simple as 123

You didn't read my OP. I never said I hated the games nor did I say they were bad. I also never mentioned the endings. In fact, if you pay as much attention to my posts as you seem to do; you'd know that I do not have a problem with the endings. Saying that these games don't deserve to be considered some of the best of all time is not bashing or hating on them.

I did read your OP.  I simply assumed you hated the endings, you seem like the kind of guy. Yes it is bashing on them; the 40+ Game Awards and over 75+ Perfect Scores seem to disagree with you, about not considering it the best game of all time.

 Best game of all time....please. Skyrim far out sold ME3. Skyrim in its first week made 450 million. ME3 still hasn't made that much after a year (as of feb 2013).

[abch4]

I can replay ME3 much easier than Skyrim, Skyrim gets boring quick for me. Hell I preferred oblivion over skyrim and that's saying something. Sales don't mean everything, Rihanna sells a gazillion records

[KwangtungTiger]

After looking around at most of the major games sites ME3 only breaks into to top 8 rated games of all time on 1 site (gameinformer). On all the other sites its 35 or above. Moral of the story is if you feel ME3 is best of all time it is only your opinion.

How it got 75 perfect scores and cant break top 35 is beyong me?

[Reap_ii]

KwangtungTiger wrote...


 Best game of all time....please. Skyrim far out sold ME3. Skyrim in its first week made 450 million. ME3 still hasn't made that much after a year (as of feb 2013).

wow, i need to look those numbers up.  had no idea Skyrim sold so much.  i cant replay either one of them.  Skyrim was very similar to Oblivion and was huge so i didnt feel any urge to replay, even though you can have some different outcomes with quests.  i was satisfied.  cant replay ME3 because of the ending wierdness, regardless of choice.  id like to compare series numbers though.  take all sales from all COD, HALO, Skyrim, etc.  crown a series champion of all time sales, im too lazy for that though.

edit:  i just realized i combined two responses in one post.   very ADD.  that stuff about replaying was @abch4.

Modifié par Reap_ii, 01 mars 2013 - 06:25 .

[abch4]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

After looking around at most of the major games sites ME3 only breaks into to top 8 rated games of all time on 1 site (gameinformer). On all the other sites its 35 or above. Moral of the story is if you feel ME3 is best of all time it is only your opinion.

How it got 75 perfect scores and cant break top 35 is beyong me?

Moral of the story, isn't thinking any "greatest game of all time" title based on opinion? I don't believe ME3 is. But I don't feel someone needs to rely on reviews and sales to form an opinion because they are so weak in their own convictions.


The game may have been overrated reviewers, but that shouldn't change how the trilogy is personally perceived

[KwangtungTiger]

abch4 wrote...

I can replay ME3 much easier than Skyrim, Skyrim gets boring quick for me. Hell I preferred oblivion over skyrim and that's saying something. Sales don't mean everything, Rihanna sells a gazillion records

 I agree and disagree. Skyrim overall is still a higher rated game by critics and fans alike. But as much as bioware fans talked about sales showing the support for the game im merely showing numbers for another (mainly for the post stating the game is best of all time because of its scores). Hell I still play morrowind and love it.

 And while you (and me for that fact) may not like rihanna. Her sales do indeed show her popularity.

 On a side not I dont hate ME3. I just hate it when people make false claims based solely on their own opinion. 

[abch4]

Reap_ii wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...


 Best game of all time....please. Skyrim far out sold ME3. Skyrim in its first week made 450 million. ME3 still hasn't made that much after a year (as of feb 2013).

wow, i need to look those numbers up.  had no idea Skyrim sold so much.  i cant replay either one of them.  Skyrim was very similar to Oblivion and was huge so i didnt feel any urge to replay, even though you can have some different outcomes with quests.  i was satisfied.  cant replay ME3 because of the ending wierdness, regardless of choice.  id like to compare series numbers though.  take all sales from all COD, HALO, Skyrim, etc.  crown a series champion of all time sales, im too lazy for that though.

edit:  i just realized i combined two responses in one post.   very ADD.  that stuff about replaying was @abch4.

Would deffo be CoD. Skyrim quests get too samey after the first 20 hours of play, plus the loot and enemy system is so basic it adds no endgame unfortunately

[abch4]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

abch4 wrote...

I can replay ME3 much easier than Skyrim, Skyrim gets boring quick for me. Hell I preferred oblivion over skyrim and that's saying something. Sales don't mean everything, Rihanna sells a gazillion records

 I agree and disagree. Skyrim overall is still a higher rated game by critics and fans alike. But as much as bioware fans talked about sales showing the support for the game im merely showing numbers for another (mainly for the post stating the game is best of all time because of its scores). Hell I still play morrowind and love it.

 And while you (and me for that fact) may not like rihanna. Her sales do indeed show her popularity.

 On a side not I dont hate ME3. I just hate it when people make false claims based solely on their own opinion. 

Oh for sure, I'm not disputing the popularity, but at the same time it doesn't make it GOAT.

I guess my main point as concise as I can make it, is that no matter the hype of a game, it shouldn't alter a personal opinion of the game, which I feel many succumb to. I'm sure some people wouldn't be so vitriolic about the ending if they hadn't come to this forum for example.

Modifié par abch4, 01 mars 2013 - 06:36 .

[dreamgazer]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

 Best game of all time....please. Skyrim far out sold ME3. Skyrim in its first week made 450 million. ME3 still hasn't made that much after a year (as of feb 2013).

Volume of purchases does not directly determine the quality of a game (or film, or book). Many superior pieces of media sell far, far less than the popular ones.

[KwangtungTiger]

abch4 wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

After looking around at most of the major games sites ME3 only breaks into to top 8 rated games of all time on 1 site (gameinformer). On all the other sites its 35 or above. Moral of the story is if you feel ME3 is best of all time it is only your opinion.

How it got 75 perfect scores and cant break top 35 is beyong me?

Moral of the story, isn't thinking any "greatest game of all time" title based on opinion? I don't believe ME3 is. But I don't feel someone needs to rely on reviews and sales to form an opinion because they are so weak in their own convictions.


The game may have been overrated reviewers, but that shouldn't change how the trilogy is personally perceived

 I hope this isn't a jab at my own convition. Im ownly tryng to imply to the other post that having 40+ awards and 75+ perfect scores doesn't state as a FACT that ME3 is the best game of all time ( Maybe in their opinion it does ) when other games have better ratings, reviews and sales compared to ME3.

 i personaly bought ME3 based off of my experiance with ME1 and 2 ( not off of any reviews ).

[Maxster_]

PKchu wrote...

"Quality of writing is objective."

To an extent, although the criticism of writing and ideas of what things should be do change over time. Novels were once looked down upon heavily.

I'm not saying everything is relative, I'm stating I don't agree with your inability to parse minor details in a story without saying its complete rubbish. Explaining every plotpoint in detail is something that can be done and then generate a bad story. There's a give and take for narrative flow and cohesion. You can have a good story _experience_ with some damage on the edges of its plot as long as the core is not nonsensical.

Motives of antagonist's actions is not a minor point.
And when everyone turned into a babbling idiot, to shoehorn into nonsensical and horrible written plot  - it is not a minor point.
ME2 have some glaring plotholes, idiotic retcons, and pure nonsense(lazarus, terminator). ME2's story makes absolutely no sense, and story's progression is utterly stupid. Things just happens, for no reason.
ME3's plot, on the other hand - is consists of large glaring plotholes, like reapers arrival, cerberus empire, Crucible, and Catalyst. Which turns ME3 story into pure nonsense(cerberus empire, crucible), and nullifies its prequels(reapers arrival, catalyst).

You, of course, can pretend that those plotholes and nonsense are minor nitpicks. It only says things about your standarts.

This idea that every single possible detail must be explained for stories to make sense and it is the criteria above all things is asinine.

Of course.
Why antagonists needs any motivation, or reasoning for their actions? They just do... things.. because plot demands so.
Why story needs details? It doesn't, story is great just because it is written.

The issue is if the unexplained is extremely relevant and pervades your mind as you play the story. Harbinger's precise motivations to the T are not something I feel I need to know to enjoy ME2, just his general goal.

Exactly.
You already shown, that you don't care for plot coherence, consistence. As long as you like gameplay(nonsensical drama for the sake of drama included).
Therefore, you do not care for quality of writing.
And why we having this discussion? Because you don't like when i point obvious things, like very low quality of ME2 and ME3 stories.
Just because you like them.
Basically- "i like it, so stfu".

"There is enough information about C-Sec and Citadel Fleet in codex. And of course, if someone willing to ignore lore in a discussion about lore - that would end funny."

This, like many of your points, I find incoherent and condescending. You really don't think the Citadel's most trusted spectre doesn't have inside knowledge and information and that there's SO much individual detail about the minute details of how that area is guarded so securely that an infiltration strike would just be so impossible? No, that story could have been written without blowing up and destroying all of the lore.

And he will be shot by C-Sec. That's not anime or comics. ME1 only, of course.

I don't agree about your views on EDI and Shepard's level of information and how much credibility that should be given. Your response to my point that they do not have Word of God level of information and that EDI claims to be making an estimate is, "lol no, I am right you are wrong." Why should I even try to engage you if you twist what I say and are rude to me?

Simple.
There is nothing ME that could be considered "Word of God level of information". Codex - biased, or plainly incorrect, or with unknown credibility with no means of verifying. Characters - biased, or fed false information or lying. Etc.
Therefore, by the premise of anyone not having "Word of God level of information" you can discard any information in MEU, which you don't like, or which don't fitting into your headcanon.
You simply discard EDI information in one particular case, just because with this information, ME2's story is a utter nonsense. And, by your bias, ME2 making sense by default - therefore, any information that portrays ME2 as nonsensical is discarded, because ME2 makes sense.
So, ME2 makes sense just because ME2 makes sense. Circular reasoning, as it is.

Back for EDI information. Most information about the collectors, or reapers, comes from EDI. Why not discard that, with the same reasoning?
Why not discard Mordin's research?
Layer by layer, by this nonsensical premise of yours, ME2 can be stripped of any information or plot points.
Just like that.

Go have fun playing the Witcher or something.

You are in no position to give me orders, comrade.

[abch4]

I wasn't, I was referring to the royal 'someone'. I would not offend your character when I don't know it. Apologies if it seemed that way. I in fact agree with you. I thought you was implying Skyrim was a better game because of sales is all.


@Kwantung

Modifié par abch4, 01 mars 2013 - 06:47 .

[KwangtungTiger]

dreamgazer wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

 Best game of all time....please. Skyrim far out sold ME3. Skyrim in its first week made 450 million. ME3 still hasn't made that much after a year (as of feb 2013).

Volume of purchases does not directly determine the quality of a game (or film, or book). Many superior pieces of media sell far, far less than the popular ones.

 Again, Im not saying that sales, rating or reviews show anything as fact only that the other poster siad that with 40+ awards and 75+ perfect scores shows that ME3 is the best all time. In his or her opinion it may be.

 There are other titles that have better ratings, reviews and sales figures that contridict his or her claim

[KwangtungTiger]

abch4 wrote...

I wasn't, I was referring to the royal 'someone'. I would not offend your character when I don't know it


@Kwantung

 Thank you, and again this is only a class to the other poster in Opinion vs stating a Fact

Modifié par KwangtungTiger, 01 mars 2013 - 06:57 .

[Maxster_]

iamthedave3 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...


@Klarabela

There's also the borderline sycophantic tendency for almost all sympathetic characters to praise the player Shepard on how great/awesome the Commander is, and to be appropriately conciliatory and submissive to Shepard's will, while the single most common characteristic of Bad People is that they're rude to Shepard and disrespectful.

That is simply not true at all.

Yes, characters praise Shepard after completeing missions successfully, but it's not blind praise. Fail any loyalty mission in ME 2 and the character in question becomes bitter and resentful. Make a choice that a squadmate disagrees with, and they voice their concerns pretty often. There are dozens of instances through the series where squadmates confront Shepard over major or minor issues.

Ow come on, lets be honest here, the entire Mass Effect series is a complete juvenile power-trip, right until the last 5 minutes of the trilogy, where the power-trip ends and the harsh reality (that you can't always have it your way and that sometimes compromises have to be made) hits in. It's one of the major reasons why people hate the ending, or why they desperately believe in the Indoctrination Theory. They can't believe that their Jesus Shepard isn't allowed to just kick the reapers in the daddybags, go home and have many blue babies with his/her waifu.

But until the end of Mass Effect 3, the entire series really is just a juvenile power-trip, where the player can talk-jutsu the main antagonist into comitting suicide, TWICE, where the player can go on a suicide misson, and get out of there with not single man lost, where the player can drop loads on the faces of his/her superiors and get away with it, where the player can use the council of the galaxy as his/her verbal punching bags and get away with it.
In short, the player can basically do whatever the f*ck he wants, and get away with it, without any serious compromises and without any serious repercussions.

And worst of all, is that BioWare only strengthed this childish juvenile power-trip by turning all the characters that were generally disliked by the fanbase into shallow badguys just so the player can drop his virtual loads on them so the player can feel good about himself. Just take a look at Udina. He was a good man, but the fanbase hated him and wanted to drop their loads on him, so BioWare turned him into a baddy without much of a real explanation, simply so the kids could shoot him in the brain and feel good about themselves. Pathetic...

Harsh but more or less accurate. I'd argue it's not juvenile because it does do a good job of exploring some deeper issues. The genophage is generally well-handled, for example, and that's a difficult thing to do grey, as is the Quarian/Geth conflict. But the plotting? Yeah you're pretty much spot on.

Real Council politics also well handed, reminded me of hypocritical USA politics, or Britain's one before they were stripped of their power.
It is obviously inspired by real world politics of 17-21 centuries.
Some elements of that even survived up to ME3.
Udina and Ashley of ME1 is the best characters in MEU. No surprise, how they were received by the "mature" fanbase
Also shows real EAWare's artistic integrity.

[KwangtungTiger]

Reap_ii wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...


 Best game of all time....please. Skyrim far out sold ME3. Skyrim in its first week made 450 million. ME3 still hasn't made that much after a year (as of feb 2013).

wow, i need to look those numbers up.  had no idea Skyrim sold so much.  i cant replay either one of them.  Skyrim was very similar to Oblivion and was huge so i didnt feel any urge to replay, even though you can have some different outcomes with quests.  i was satisfied.  cant replay ME3 because of the ending wierdness, regardless of choice.  id like to compare series numbers though.  take all sales from all COD, HALO, Skyrim, etc.  crown a series champion of all time sales, im too lazy for that though.

edit:  i just realized i combined two responses in one post.   very ADD.  that stuff about replaying was @abch4.

 And just so you know its sold 650 million so far but i cant find an as of date. But back on subject.

 I dont believe the ME series is overrated. While I was a little disappointed with ME3 ( mainly for the auto-dialog and the wussification of my ruthless shepard ). For me it was still an overall great series.

 Cant say the same for DA2 though. That game just killed the dragon age series for me.

Modifié par KwangtungTiger, 01 mars 2013 - 07:00 .

[jumpingkaede]

I don't know about overrated but my god.

What happened to the journal system in ME3? Has the person behind that screwup come clean? Not only was it markedly worse than the journals in ME2 and ME1, but it's arguably the worst quest/journal log I've ever seen in any game.

I don't even think that's an exaggeration.

[Mastone]

I found ME1 to be the best in the series, ME 2 was not so good, but because it was an inbetweener I was willing to accept its flaws..ME3 however was utter trash and an insult to any form of intelligence..they went full retard with that one

[TheViper8234]

just ... NO

[The Heretic of Time]

All in all, I think Mass Effect 2 was and still is the most over-rated game in the Mass Effect trilogy.

[o Ventus]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

All in all, I think Mass Effect 2 was and still is the most over-rated game in the Mass Effect trilogy.

Funny really, how every thing wrong with ME2 can be applied to ME3. But ME2 is the overrated one (despite ME3's much overdone marketing campaign and incredibly underwhelming final product). I won't even mention the obvious lies and blatant false marketing.

Also, congratulations on "juvenile power fantasy". Ridiculous hyperbole is going to strengthen your case.

Modifié par o Ventus, 02 mars 2013 - 04:09 .

[AlanC9]

o Ventus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

All in all, I think Mass Effect 2 was and still is the most over-rated game in the Mass Effect trilogy.

Funny really, how every thing wrong with ME2 can be applied to ME3. But ME2 is the overrated one (despite ME3's much overdone marketing campaign and incredibly underwhelming final product). I won't even mention the obvious lies and blatant false marketing.

The question is whether people acknowledge that the same flaws are present in both games. H-H has a point; sometimes ME3 gets hammered for a flaw that ME2 gets a pass on.  Though back before ME3 was released ME2 got plenty of grief on these boards.

I'm not sure what the marketing has to do with the game's quality, myself. And I was pretty much equally whelmed by both games, but that's just me.

[AlanC9]

jumpingkaede wrote...

What happened to the journal system in ME3? Has the person behind that screwup come clean? Not only was it markedly worse than the journals in ME2 and ME1, but it's arguably the worst quest/journal log I've ever seen in any game.

The only thing I can figure is that all the beta testers played the game the way I did; ignoring the journal and playing from the maps. A better journal wouldn't actually tell you anything useful since the important missions show on the map, and the scanning missions don't usually tell you where to go. It wasn't until I read posts here that I realized people were trying to get ino from the journal that isn't there.

[Ice Cold J]

 To me, EVERY GAME I've ever played has had some mechanic hiccups/glitches/bugs in it.

What you are referring to, mostly, are those.

To me, Mass Effect is more about the story, mystique, and immersion that it made you feel. THAT is what I look for in a game.
Every game lets you push this button, take this aciton, advance in this direction. It's how and WHY you do these things, your motivation, if you will, that defines the experience and makes each one unique.

Mass Effect had this nailed down more than pretty much any game series I've ever play up until it's waning moments. Even then, it wasn't a bad idea: it was just introduced to us WAY to late in the series to be considered acceptable in my opinion.

The games themselves had imperfections. All games do. The story, however, is where i find my entertainment vale. In that regard, Mass Effect delivered 110%.