631 réponses à ce sujet

[DirtyPhoenix]

Fixers0 wrote...

It seems some people here, confuse their opinion with the truth.

Its a rather common afliction unfortunately.

[o Ventus]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

oh you don't like my grammar?Maybe i should speak spanish instead.I'm sure you'll understand me better that way

You just weakened your stance.

[Fixers0]

pirate1802 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

It seems some people here, confuse their opinion with the truth.

Its a rather common afliction unfortunately.

True enough, but most people at least have the common courtesy of  adding things such as "in my opinion" or 'according to my view", something that is mostly absent from this thread.

[CronoDragoon]

Tangential story:

Ever know only a bit about a subject but still want to converse with someone who's talking about it? Just say something is either underrated or overrated. Usually the person will have had this discussion before or have their own strong opinions about it. They'll think you know what you're talking about even if you don't, and proceed to do all the heavy lifting by talking nonstop about how that's true/not true. One way or another they'll think you're involved in the subject.

This especially works great in sports. I don't know much about hockey, but if my friends are talking about it I'll go, "so and so is actually pretty underrated. He does more for his team than people realize."

Now my friends think I know hockey. It's awesome.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 25 juillet 2013 - 03:27 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

Fixers0 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

It seems some people here, confuse their opinion with the truth.

Its a rather common afliction unfortunately.

True enough, but most people at least have the common courtesy of  adding things such as "in my opinion" or 'according to my view", something that is mostly absent from this thread.

Opinions can be very different,that's why i don't care about opinions.When you judge a game you should judge it based on facts.For example,ME1's gameplay is terrible.That's not an opinion,it's a fact

[Fixers0]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...
Opinions can be very different,that's why i don't care about opinions.When you judge a game you should judge it based on facts.For example,ME1's gameplay is terrible.That's not an opinion,it's a fact

Thank you for proving my point, you're the examplar when it comes to confusing opions with facts.

[KaiserShep]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...
Opinions can be very different,that's why i don't care about opinions.When you judge a game you should judge it based on facts.For example,ME1's gameplay is terrible.That's not an opinion,it's a fact

Your grasp of the difference between opinion and fact leaves much to be desired.

[ShepnTali]

Any, and everything that is generally liked by alot of people gets tagged as overrated from somewhere. It has no teeth. It could be underrated by a minority just the same.

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

Fixers0 wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...
Opinions can be very different,that's why i don't care about opinions.When you judge a game you should judge it based on facts.For example,ME1's gameplay is terrible.That's not an opinion,it's a fact

Thank you for proving my point, you're the examplar when it comes to confusing opions with facts.

If that was the case then the endings don't suck either."It's an opinion after all"

[Fixers0]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...
If that was the case then the endings don't suck either."It's an opinion after all"

Arguments, my friend, arguments and logic is what matters.

[Massa FX]

In my opinion forum posters should not need to say in my opinion. Who's opinion would they be writing about? Does the implied obvious need to be made clear to a select few BSN forum etiquette police?

In my opinion the answer is no.

Just my 2cents. IMHO. Can the sarcasm be any clearer?

[Bleachrude]

What are we rating it against though to say that it is overrated? Especially when there is nothing like it.

Do we compare it to say Star Control or any other space videogame that built up an entire galaxy?
Fantasy RPGs like Dragon Age and the Witcher generally don't have to "waste" resources since most of their concepts/ideas are already understood by the common person.

Do we compare/rate it to other party based RPGs since a single person RPG like Deus Ex doesn't have to spend time, money and effort with companions...


I mean, Battlefield regularly gets compared to Call of Duty on BSN, but people who actually play the games would look at you strangely since the former is much more team-oirented whereas CoD is about the individual

(It's quite possible for a team to have an average "score" in therms of points and still win a match whereas in CoD, highest kill total score will always win the match.

[Cobalt2113]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

If that was the case then the endings don't suck either."It's an opinion after all"

Yes, that is correct. If ME3's endings were simply bad with no redeeming features at all, then everyone would hate them. But that is not the case, lots of people like the endings post-EC. So obviously saying the endings suck is an opinion and nothing more.

Welcome to the difference between subjective and objective.

Modifié par Cobalt2113, 26 juillet 2013 - 02:28 .

[o Ventus]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

If that was the case then the endings don't suck either."It's an opinion after all"

Yes, that is correct. If ME3's endings were simply bad with no redeeming features at all, then everyone would hate them. But that is not the case, lots of people like the endings post-EC. So obviously saying the endings suck is an opinion and nothing more.

Welcome to the difference between subjective and objective.

It IS possible for people to have bad taste.

[Cainhurst Crow]

o Ventus wrote...

Cobalt2113 wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

If that was the case then the endings don't suck either."It's an opinion after all"

Yes, that is correct. If ME3's endings were simply bad with no redeeming features at all, then everyone would hate them. But that is not the case, lots of people like the endings post-EC. So obviously saying the endings suck is an opinion and nothing more.

Welcome to the difference between subjective and objective.

It IS possible for people to have bad taste.

****iest response I've heard to people having different opinions today. Though I will give you props for not resorting to "EAware paid them to like it" or "Your just a mindless drone for bioware" or even better "Your just an employe of EA"  <_<

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 26 juillet 2013 - 04:52 .

[o Ventus]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

****iest response I've heard to people having different opinions today. Though I will give you props for not resorting to "EAware paid them to like it" or "Your just a mindless drone for bioware" or even better "Your just an employe of EA"  

It's also true.

Talk to anybody who knows anything about film and say that Biodome is a better movie than Citizen Kane. Gauge their reaction.

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

o Ventus wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

****iest response I've heard to people having different opinions today. Though I will give you props for not resorting to "EAware paid them to like it" or "Your just a mindless drone for bioware" or even better "Your just an employe of EA"  

It's also true.

Talk to anybody who knows anything about film and say that Biodome is a better movie than Citizen Kane. Gauge their reaction.

Biodome is better than Citisen Kane..What is citisen kane?

[dreamgazer]

o Ventus wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

****iest response I've heard to people having different opinions today. Though I will give you props for not resorting to "EAware paid them to like it" or "Your just a mindless drone for bioware" or even better "Your just an employe of EA"  

It's also true.

Talk to anybody who knows anything about film and say that Biodome is a better movie than Citizen Kane. Gauge their reaction.

That's all well and good, until you start comparing and saying which entries in a series are like Citizen Kane and which ones are like Biodome. Also, it's possible for some folks to like both Citizen Kane and Biodome.  Liking one doesn't negate appreciation for another. 

Personally, I like a lot of classic Japanese, Italian, and German cinema, but I also like a few Michael Bay flicks, dumb comedies, and "non-scary" horror movies plenty of people have a lot of problems with. 

[o Ventus]

Liking something is one thing. Saying that it's "good" is another.

Take the Bay Transformers movies for example. Those movies are horrible, but I still enjoy watching them. Same goes for any film made by Ed Wood.

[Kel Riever]

Having good taste in film and movies is honestly more about admitting the difference between whether you personally like something and whether it has value as a piece of work from the standards in the industry. Sure, sometimes those standards are broken, by a whole horde of people who say they like something, and then it is changed. However, that falls into the realm of the minority of works and also falls into the realm of the work being widely accepted.

ME3 certainly does not fit that category.

I won't argue with someone who says they like ME3 from a personal standpoint. Hell, I like the movie Underworld. But just because I like Underworld, does not mean it should be called a good movie. Nor do I run around saying things like, "The problem with Underworld is it deserves better fans!" Yes, because then it would deserve better fans...ones with taste....

Edit:  Short version provided by o Ventus

Modifié par Kel Riever, 26 juillet 2013 - 05:14 .

[dreamgazer]

o Ventus wrote...

Liking something is one thing. Saying that it's "good" is another.

Meh.  The two start to blur together after a while.  

It's all about perspective, and what the movies are trying to accomplish. One movie could be a better piece of work on a general scale, but the other movie could accomplish what it sets out to do better than the "good" movie.

Taste is far from black and white.

[Cainhurst Crow]

o Ventus wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

****iest response I've heard to people having different opinions today. Though I will give you props for not resorting to "EAware paid them to like it" or "Your just a mindless drone for bioware" or even better "Your just an employe of EA"  

It's also true.

Talk to anybody who knows anything about film and say that Biodome is a better movie than Citizen Kane. Gauge their reaction.

So you mean talk to pretentious people who all like art movies that border so closely to exploitation films the two might as well be the same thing? Or the movie critics who insist that everyone have the same taste of film as they do and anyone who doesn't is wrong? Or that third group who measure the quality of a film by it's obscurity and lack of traits found in other films, such as a soundtrack or narrative?

Or just regular people who call themselves film buffs or film experts and who get most of their opinions from other film buffs? Biodome is a horrible movie, truely it is, but mass effect 3 isn't biodome. If anything, it's more like pacific rim or iron man, it's an action game meant to showcase a battle between giant robot aliens who can exist for billions of years without any problems or maintenance issues, and us protectin the one thing needed to fight against them.

Personally I think while there is a objective way to measure a films quality, most of the criteria are more hardware or physical based, are the shots done well, is the sound for the film correct, are the effects decent visually, is there film continuity between the shots, and the acting ability. The rest of it regarding the plot and dialouge are more subjective things for people to see if they feel it's bard or not based on their own preferences. It just so happens that with movies like biodome, the consensus is almost unanimous about it being bad in both fields.

[Kel Riever]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

****iest response I've heard to people having different opinions today. Though I will give you props for not resorting to "EAware paid them to like it" or "Your just a mindless drone for bioware" or even better "Your just an employe of EA"  

It's also true.

Talk to anybody who knows anything about film and say that Biodome is a better movie than Citizen Kane. Gauge their reaction.

So you mean talk to pretentious people who all like art movies that border so closely to exploitation films the two might as well be the same thing? Or the movie critics who insist that everyone have the same taste of film as they do and anyone who doesn't is wrong? Or that third group who measure the quality of a film by it's obscurity and lack of traits found in other films, such as a soundtrack or narrative?

Or just regular people who call themselves film buffs or film experts and who get most of their opinions from other film buffs? Biodome is a horrible movie, truely it is, but mass effect 3 isn't biodome. If anything, it's more like pacific rim or iron man, it's an action game meant to showcase a battle between giant robot aliens who can exist for billions of years without any problems or maintenance issues, and us protectin the one thing needed to fight against them.

Personally I think while there is a objective way to measure a films quality, most of the criteria are more hardware or physical based, are the shots done well, is the sound for the film correct, are the effects decent visually, is there film continuity between the shots, and the acting ability. The rest of it regarding the plot and dialouge are more subjective things for people to see if they feel it's bard or not based on their own preferences. It just so happens that with movies like biodome, the consensus is almost unanimous about it being bad in both fields.

Ah, the, 'they're pretentious' arguement.

This is one of those generalizations that stems from one bad apple ruining the whole bunch.  We LOVE to pick on critics that are wrong, and then say, "All the critics suck!"  It makes us feel good.  It is fun to pick on them.  Especially since a lot of them couldn't necessarily produce a book or movie themselves.

But why, then, did so many people listen to Siskel and Ebert?  How come so many people get caught up in fighting with the critics instead of just moving on? (oh yes, the secret is in there regarding posting on BSN.  Find the gold....)?

Because people who do produce work need criticism that goes beyond chalking it up to 'Just everyone's opinion."  If you are in the industry to create Mass EAppeal, you have to come up with criteria that covers a broad spectrum of people, if not every single one.  And that becomes the definition of what is good.  It changes, it is malleable, and it SHOULD be.  Because sometimes people are wrong.

But that doesn't mean they are all the time, or even most of the time, just because "WELL, everyboyd has a different opinion!"

Modifié par Kel Riever, 26 juillet 2013 - 05:25 .